4ad-l Mail for 12-21-1996

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Subject: Hey, guys, it's my very own definition of beauty!
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:42:04 GMT
From: Paul Spirito ([email protected])
Subject: aesthetic judgement
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:28:05 PST
From: naor ([email protected])
Subject: NEW Throwing Muses EP
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:10:06 -0800
From: Jeff Keibel ([email protected])
Subject: Counting Crowes
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:13:47 -0800
From: Jeff Keibel ([email protected])
Subject: Re: RHP
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:28:51 -0600
From: "Mrs. John Murphy" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Counting Crowes
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:57:56 EST
From: Matthew T DeBellis ([email protected])

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:42:04 GMT
From: Paul Spirito ([email protected])
Subject: Hey, guys, it's my very own definition of beauty!

Beauty -- that with which one desires to publicly associate oneself.

Don't spend it all in one place!

Merry Xmas, Kwanzaa, etc.


Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:28:05 PST
From: naor ([email protected])
Subject: aesthetic judgement

Jens wrote:
>I don't see how this follows at all from the first three 'rules'. The
>fact that people see items as beautiful without being able to point out
>objective reasons in no way implies that every person's sense of beauty
>will be the same.

imagine you are looking at a picture of bambi. let's say that you think it's
beautiful. the fact that you find it beautiful is not connected to your *persona
needs. you are not about to eat it or ride on it's back. in that case, the beaut

"must" (according to kant) be a property of the object. and everyone would have 
agree about it. but ,strangely, they don't. and there's nothing you can say to
convince someone that bambi is beautiful, other than point to the picture again 
again and say " look, isn't it beautiful?"
the problem is that aesthetic perception is definitely *subjective* and individu
especially when it comes to art. but why?

well, I do have a little theory about that, but it's not based on anything solid
no one has yet agreed with me about it, so read on at your own risk.

the answer, I think, is through the observation that Jens mentioned:
>one can't prove that different people's perception of, say,
>the color red is in any way similar

exactly! and not only color, but also sound, and shape, and smell, and heat, and
feelings and emotions as well. when two people punch each other in the face, the

both feel "pain". but what one of them actually *feels* can be very different fr
the other's feel.  I may feel pain the same way someone else feels cold, and ano
feels hungry. with a little more effort, you can imagine that we also feel emoti
very differently, the way a person feels sad, happy, annoyed, depressed or whate
is different (physically) from the way  someone else feels these.
now, if an artist feels a certain way and writes a piece to reflect those emotio
he/she uses the colors/sounds/words/textures that they associate with those emot
these colors/sounds/words/textures will bring up different emotions in different
people. if these emotions are close to what the artist felt when he/she wrote th

piece, then the person hearing/reading/seeing the piece would think that the art
has managed to convey whatever they wished to convey accurately. to other people
piece would make no sense at all, no matter how much they try to understand it,
because the way that their minds visualise the piece is to far from what the art
as originally visualised.
maybe, with a lot of good will, this could be called an explanation of different
tastes in different people.

p.s.  I wish I could stay and see what people think of this, but in just a few h
I'll be diving, head first, into the desert for a bit. my mailbox is still open,
course, so I'll read any replies to this post when I surface.
p.p.s    anybody knows a good record store in the siny peninsula? :)

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:10:06 -0800
From: Jeff Keibel ([email protected])
Subject: NEW Throwing Muses EP

The new Throwing Muses single is "Freeloader".  It will be released in
Ryko territories on January 14th.  B-Sides are - "If", "Take" (Live) and
"Heel Toe".  4AD territories are not releasing it at this time...

Rock Moms
Bust #8
Interview With Kristin Hersh
by Tori Galore

Kristin Hersh and I spoke by phone, and as we chatted I could hear the
dishes being done in her Rhode Island kitchen. It seemed to give our
conversation all the more of a "regular mom" feel. The following week
that sense of coziness was replaced by the surreal vision of Kristin on
stage at Brownie's, a sweaty, cramped dive in NYC's East Village. The
Throwing Muses' latest release, Limbo, is a deft myriad of
hide-and-go-seek rock coupled with Kristin's complex psyche. Melodic,
yet mad. Her significantly knocked-up tummy was the actual resting place
for her guitar. Her prenatal kid had no escape from the rumble and din
of music vibrating from mom's body. My mind boggled to imagine the the
womb. At the first set's conclusion, Kristin earnestly thanked her
public for not smoking. Regular is one thing this mother is not.

who will be born on New Year's Eve. I'm just beyond the sick stage now
and just into fat and happy which is my favorite part. I don't get funky
hormone things either so I'm usually in a good mood when I'm pregnant.

in an apartment. It wasn't a great time to have a baby, I don't
recommend it. He kinda grew up in a van, sleeping in bathtubs in hotel
rooms, which I felt terrible about but he didn't notice. Just to have
Mom there, that was home.

we got pregnant -another thing I don't recommend.

sensible thing to do. I went to the beach right after I found out and I
was the only person in the world who knew about this life, and I just
stared at the water and it seemed like a real life. There was a spark
there that I didn't want to get rid of.

who thinks being kind is the most important thing in the world. I had a
kind of a hippie, flighty Dad. He went out to Death Valley and listened
to voices in his head. He's our Dad, but I don't know if I would call
that raising kids.

you're raising your kids?

a kid's life. We don't let them into reality easily cause we don't think
they can take it yet. I remember not being able to take it
and having it shoved in my face.

Tofu was like junk food to us. Then you go to school and you realize
that you're a hippie freak, just like your parents. So that's what I
feed my poor children. They're bitter of course, but they're beautiful.

find yourself doing?

I know why my mother did this.

seems pretty much to be pouring the cereal and doing the laundry and
they raise themselves. I'm too busy to do much forming. They're not
excessively feminine, but they are very gentle and kind and complex.
They never went through that "grrrr" he-man thing. That would be as
freaky to me as if I had a girl who was flirty or manipulative.

drugs are for. It's easy to look at a junkie and think they're insane,
it's not so easy to do that when you can recognize the junkie in you.

else. You don'tknow how to make fingernails, but you did somehow; you
figure the whole thing's magic and you got tricked into it. And it's
like that everyday. They like having me around, but the only thing that
I really have control over is how healthy they are, and that's not a
little issue.

for that lost time and yet, I've got to look at the positive side of
that, which is that they see a woman and her family doing something with
a passion and also caring enough to focus on them, which we both do.
It's just that I spend a lot of time paying my dues in other ways, not
just motherhood. When I'm home, I'm home. I'm a real housewife.

and that's no good.

Article originally appeared in BUST magazine, issue number 8
(Fall/Winter 1996), conducted via phone by Tori Galore.

(Thanks, Mark)
Jeff Keibel
Scarborough, ON
[email protected]

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:13:47 -0800
From: Jeff Keibel ([email protected])
Subject: Counting Crowes

With His Name Is Alive on the soundtrack to the new Cameron Crowe pic
"Jerry Maquire", does anyone remember the 4AD group that Crowe used in
his 1991 pic "Singles"??  Hint: The song was featured in the movie only,
NOT the companion soundtrack album.

I just saw "Moonlight And Valentino", the movie with Elizabeth Perkins,
Gwyneth Paltrow and Kathleen Turner...  Effective use of The Breeders'
"Cannonball" in a scene near the middle of the flick!

Jeff Keibel
Scarborough, ON
[email protected]

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:28:51 -0600
From: "Mrs. John Murphy" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: RHP

William B. Tubbs wrote:

> At about the half-way point, he excused himself from
> the stage to take a piss, leaving the rest of the band somewhat
> perplexed.  And the set seemed to end rather abruptly.  In fact, it
> appeared to me that he even surprised the rest of the band at the end.
> Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show.  But has anybody else had this
> kind of experience at a RHP show, or was it just a bad night in St.
> Louis (no St. Louis jokes, please).  Just curious.

The lead sing, Mark, of RHP can be a bit moody. I've seem them twice
in Chicago. The list time was with Heddi Berry. RHP played for 2hrs+,
playing my covers (including Silly Love Songs By Wings?) They were
quite friendly with the audience.I also got a change to talk to them
and thought they were nice chaps in a depressing so of way. This was
their first tour for 4AD and maybe in a better state of mind. A few
months later Mark played a solo show in Chicago. He was moody and
tempermental. In the middle of his set, he started telling a story
about his love life ( or lack of). Stating that he is only here to try
and see a girl he met when he last played in Chicago (she was not
there), told a some sad stories, played Silly love songs, bitched at
the audience, used the word fuck alot, and them stormed of stage. This
a strange experience for me. Not the same as your experience, but just
as wierd.

Micheal Ellis - [email protected]

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:57:56 EST
From: Matthew T DeBellis ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Counting Crowes

The Answer: Pixies "Dig For Fire" in the store scene.  I heard it, and me
and a couple of friends started cheering in the audience.

Do i win anything????


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