4ad-l Mail for 12-17-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: Bowery Electric Shows
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:39:56 -0500
From: Tjm000@aol.com
Subject: Milk and Kisses/Ruby Musings
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:23:44 -0600
From: lab/hmd (dijit@NS.ACADIACOM.NET)
Subject: Re: search for new music
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:33:14 -0600
From: Jason Marc Morehead (00161068@BIGRED.UNL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Milk and Kisses/Ruby Musings
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:34:07 -0800
From: Matthew Greer (megreer@UCDAVIS.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD-L Digest - 15 Dec 1996 to 16 Dec 1996
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:00:44 -0500
From: Heather-Lyn A Haley (hhaley@SOC.UMASS.EDU)
Subject: Critics / Luna + Slowdive
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:06:14 -0500
From: arbogast (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: in your ear has some goodies...
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:01:58 -0500
From: lee harvey fnordwald (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:35:34 EST
From: Jeremy L Orr (j.orr@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Milk & Kisses (yes, again)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:35:34 EST
From: Jeremy L Orr (j.orr@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Opinions
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:49:03 -0500
From: JRR TOLKIEN (GGNL44A@PRODIGY.COM)
Subject: Re: Opinions
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:15:12 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Opinions
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:48:19 -0500
From: lee harvey fnordwald (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Books for sick kids --GREAT JOB ( was: DON'T DO IT)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:42:54 PST
From: Tom Weibrecht (tweibrecht@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Wolfhounds
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:39:53 EST
From: Matthew T DeBellis (loomer5@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Moon Seven Times
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:19:04 -0500
From: TIM CONLON (U590@SYSM.ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Opinions
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:05:16 EST
From: "C.K. Coney" (violaine@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Critics
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:05:16 EST
From: "C.K. Coney" (violaine@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Opinions
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:53:28 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Alas dies laughing...[AKA: Twinsgate]
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:37:03 -0500
From: Michael Borum (iceblink@TIAC.NET)
Subject: Rare Indie and Alternative records for sale.
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:17:59 +0000
From: Francis Tilley (francis@deepseat.demon.co.uk)
Subject: Re: Moon Seven Times
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:38:42 -0500
From: Elizabeth A Grove (egrove@IC.SUNYSB.EDU)

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:29:54 -0700
From: ".mark." (vonminde@RINTINTIN.COLORADO.EDU)
Subject: Bowery Electric Shows (fwd)


i know there's at least some interest for this on both these lists.  sorry
for the crosspost...

.
mrk (vonminde@rtt.colorado.edu)
.

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:39:56 -0500
From: Tjm000@aol.com
Subject: Bowery Electric Shows


BOWERY ELECTRIC

Just a quick news flash to let all know that the NYC band, Bowery Electric,
 will be hosting a live internet DJ performance on the Desert Flower Indie
Hour on Tuesday, December 17 from 7:00pm to 8:00pm.  Check it out at -

Also of note - the band will be playing their first NYC show since the
release of their second album 'Beat', on Kranky records. The show is this
Thursday, December 19th at the Mercury Lounge. Bowery Electric will be
accompanied by BYZAR and TOWER RECORDINGS. This is an excellent bill, and
because of the size of the venue (200 CAP), buying advance tickets might be a
good idea.

Hope you can join Bowery Electric for one of these appearances.

Please feel free to post this message or  forward it on to anybody who might
be interested.

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:23:44 -0600
From: lab/hmd (dijit@NS.ACADIACOM.NET)
Subject: Milk and Kisses/Ruby Musings


IMO, Milk and Kisses is o.k. but not brilliant and "classic" like most
everything else the Cocteaus have done.  Otherness was more enjoyable than
M&K.  And, as someone has said before, M&K has made them appreciate Four
Calendar Cafe more.  Amen to that brother.

I listened to 4CC for the first time in a long while the other day and it
literally gave me goosebumps.  Bluebeard, Squeeze-Wax "...you amaaazzze me,
you ammaaaze me!", Summerhead, and Pur are pure and radiant beauties!!!

M&K is lackluster--no sparkle.  I still love the band, just wish they would
have produced something better.

Lysa



Two of my favorite releases for '96:

RUBY _Salt Peter_
Lesley Rankine has the power supreme.
"This is where the evil grows..."

THROWING MUSES _Limbo_
Different is good.


Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:33:14 -0600
From: Jason Marc Morehead (00161068@BIGRED.UNL.EDU)
Subject: Re: search for new music

              16, 96 09:54:28 pm

>
> I've been searching for some interesting new bands to listen to.
> I've been really out of touch with the current music scene for the
> last year, finishing up my last year of college. Some of my favorite
> bands are Cocteau Twins, MBV, Slowdive, Lush, HMIA. Can anyone suggest
> some other bands (in the realm of etheral,shoegazing, ambient) that
> they like.
> check out low.  they're in the realm of beautiful.  layne
>     Thanks Micheal Ellis, Mortville TallMan1@ix.netcom.com
>

low is wonderful - the epitome of mellow.

other good stuff...

     labradford (listening to "prazision" as i write)
     love spirals downwards
     lovesliescrushing ("xuvetyn" is gorgeous)
     starflyer 59
     velour 100
     morella's forest (check out "super deluxe")
     lassie foundation
     soul whirling somewhere
     the verve
     vidna obmana (beautiful, spiralling ambient music)
     spiritualized

jason

p.s. does anyone know what's happened to the projekt mailing list?
     i tried posting to it, but i got back a message saying my mail
     was undeliverable.  is it still up and running?

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:34:07 -0800
From: Matthew Greer (megreer@UCDAVIS.EDU)
Subject: Re: Milk and Kisses/Ruby Musings


On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, lab/hmd wrote:

> I listened to 4CC for the first time in a long while the other day and it
> literally gave me goosebumps.  Bluebeard, Squeeze-Wax "...you amaaazzze me,
> you ammaaaze me!", Summerhead, and Pur are pure and radiant beauties!!!

yeah, thos e are all killer tunes....especially pur which i think is the
best "concluding track" by them ive heard.   and i must say "oil of
angels" is excellent with the way she "studders" the music out...i think
4CC is much better than most would admit.

but being a new cocteau fan, i just got head over heels and
treasure...adnd they are definetly on a different realm than anything on
4CC or M&K

Matt


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:00:44 -0500
From: Heather-Lyn A Haley (hhaley@SOC.UMASS.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD-L Digest - 15 Dec 1996 to 16 Dec 1996


Houghton-Mifflin have reached their goal and thank all who already sent
email, but they've closed that address now.  More info available for
those interested at their web site - I think it's www.polarexpress.com
Just thought I'd let you know.  Heather


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:06:14 -0500
From: arbogast (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Critics / Luna + Slowdive


>This is a pretty weird line of argument, IMHO. Most mainstream critics
>(yes, that includes anyone writing for a large metropolitan newspaper)
>have very milquetoast tastes. My favorite example is Robert "I worship
>U2, Prince and Springsteen" Hilburn of the LA Times, who as a bonus
>writes the most leaden, plodding prose of any music critic I can imagine;
>I'm actually glad he doesn't review anything remotely offbeat since if he
>did I'd probably end up hating the band in question just by virtue of his
>awful writing.

The main guy at the NY Times (can't remember his name) is like that too.
Critics in the non-mainstream press tend to fall into two categories: (1)
the "more punk than thou" types; and (2) the kind who are inexplicably
bitter and will use any opportunity to slag bands they hate, particularly
right in the middle of praising their favourites, whether it's relevant or not.


>and since you are mentioning luna, is slowdive and luna related in anyway?
>my only basis for this question is a lot of slowdive songs sound like
>luna

I don't hear that at all. Slowdive and Galaxie 500, perhaps, but then I
never cared for Galaxie 500.

BTW, Mojave have NOT been dropped. That piece of gossip is old, not to
mention untrue.



Larry


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:01:58 -0500
From: lee harvey fnordwald (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: in your ear has some goodies...


In your Ear, a fantastic online recordshop, has the following
goodies of interest to the list:




i got a copy of CT's "snow" from here. they're really fast,
and reliable.


| 1180 | DEAD CAN DANCE | 4AD SAMPLER | 4AD | 6805 | 13 track comp of
material from
all their albums including Passage In Time and Lonely Is An Eyesore. |
$20.00 |


| 1347 | GERMANO, LISA | HAPPINESS | 4AD | 45593 | Advance copy in matte
cardboard
slipsleeve. 1994 remix version. | $8.00 |

| 1621 | HIS NAME IS ALIVE | STARS ON ESP | 4AD | 46207 | Advance CD with
monotone
graphics. | $7.00

| 1972 | LUSH | LAST NIGHT | 4AD | 8034 | Promo 6 track: Last Night
(Latent Power Mix,
Darkest Hour Mix, Hexadecimal Dub), Undertow (Spooky Remix), plus 2 |
$15.00 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1279 | LUSH | LOVELIFE. | 4AD | 8048 | Advance CD in cardboard slipcase,
no tourdates. |
$6.00 |


| 1239 | MAZZY STAR | FADE INTO YOU | Capitol | 79401 | 9 track CD, 4 live
from MTV
Europe. | $15.00 |


| 873 | MOJAVE 3 | LOVE SONGS ON THE RADIO | 4AD | 7960 | Advance CD,
generic art. |
$6.00 |

| 1415 | RACHEL'S | MUSIC FOR EGON SCHIELE | Quarter Stick | 35 | Advance
CD with
limited art | $6.00 |


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1849 | TONES ON TAIL | NIGHT MUSIC | Beggars Banquet | 51 | Import
pressing. | $10.00 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------

| 1731 | VARIOUS ARTISTS | ALL VIRGOS ARE MAD | 4AD | 45789 | 12 track
compilation
commemorating 1994 art event in L.A. Limited to 10,000. | $20.00 |

 753 | VARIOUS ARTISTS | ANON | | | Gorgeous 2 CD set with music by Lisa
Germano and 29
others. Includes 30 artprint cards housed in foldout packaging. | $15.00 |


 355 | VARIOUS ARTISTS | NO BALLS | 4AD | 7300 | 1995 sampler with Red
House Painters,
Kendra Smith, Air Miami, Dead Can Dance... | $6.00 |






 ************************************************************************
   Now I need to come down slowly
   I need to come down slowly                               D
   so let me down now gently                                a
   very, very gently                                        n   K
   so that when I finally hit it                            i   l
   I'll hit the deck real slow                              e   y
                                                            l   n
   sweet anaesthesia
   sweet anaesthesia                             owilde@umich.edu
   sweet anaesthesia                             Document Defnording
       -david j-                                 Wondermonkey Cabal
************************************************************************

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:35:34 EST
From: Jeremy L Orr (j.orr@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure


Well, since no one else is going to touch this...

---from Joseph Burns:

> Anybody out ther eheard the new compilation that came out recently
called
> "Northern Exposure"? It purports to have tracks from folks like
Underworld,
> FSOL and their ilk... anybody know what tracks are on it?

I think it's a 2-CD compilation mixed by DJs John Digweed and Sasha.  I
doubt that it contains any exclusive tracks, but I could be wrong.  My
boyfriend is a would-be DJ that worships the ground Sasha & Digweed walk
on, so he provided the tracklisting for me.

0/North
   1.Keiichi Suzuki - Satellite Serenade
   2.Future Sound Of London - Cascade
   3.Young American Primitive - These Waves
   4.God Within - Raincry
   5.Rabbit In The Moon - Out Of Body Experience
   6.Morgan King - I'm Free
   7.Kites - Ultraviolet
   8.Fuzzy Logic - Obsession
   9.William Orbit - Water From A Vine Leaf
  10.Apollo 440 - Liquid Cool
  11.Banco De Gaia - Last Train To Lhasa

0/South
   1.Dope On Plastic - Wave Dub
   2.Drum Club - Sound System
   3.Castle Trancelot - The Gloom
   4.Pete Lazonby - Wavespeech
   5.Evolution - Phoenix
   6.The Light - Dusk
   7.X Tracks - Plan 94 (The Voyage)
   8.Mellow Mellow - I Can't Stop
   9.Banco De Gaia - Heliopolis
  10.Humate / Rabbit In The Moon - East
  11.Underworld - Dark & Long

Actually, when I saw an ad for it, I thought it also mentioned having a
track by the Aphex Twin, which means that (a) I'm wrong, or (b) he's
appearing here under (yet) another name.

On a related note of questionable thislistiness...if anyone could point
me in the direction of the CD single for State of Grace's "Not Over Yet",
which I heard on disc 2 of Sasha & Digweed's contribution to the
Renaissance series, I'd be most grateful.

---Jeremy 

"...wishing she could call him Heartache, but it's not a boy's name..."

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:35:34 EST
From: Jeremy L Orr (j.orr@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Milk & Kisses (yes, again)


---from Jens (quoting Carol Coney):

> > However, maybe the CT-bashers need to be reminded that "Milk &
Kisses"
> > was also generally well reviewed by music critics...
>
> This is a pretty weird line of argument, IMHO. Positive reviews of
recent CT by
> mainstream critics are just typical of the phenomenon where a band will
not
> get mainstream attention until they lose whatever it was that made them
> interesting in the first place. In the worst cases you then have to
endure
> months of fawning press coverage and Spin cover photos of someone
> whose current album sucks and whose earlier great stuff didn't merit
the
> attention. I don't care what critics say, at least not after I've heard
the album. I
> don't care what the previous albums are like, I'll judge it on its own
merits.

Absolutely and undeniably correct!  I could never have said it
better...or more diplomatically.  *evil grin*  And besides, most reviews
are just excuses for writers (and their respective forums) to cop an
image for themselves, anyway.

> Someone said that if "M&K" had been the Cocteaux' first album we'd all
love
> it. Frankly if it had been their first album I would never have bought
it. I'd've
> listend to a few tracks on a listening station and put it back without
giving it
> more of a chance. It's like lukewarm oatmeal compared to the kind of
stuff
> I'm looking for.

I also thought that was a pretty silly argument.  I mean,
technically...if the Cocteau Twins hadn't existed until 1996, think of
all the other bands we wouldn't have.  The world would be a very
different place...well, for us, anyway.  ;G)  Sure, I'm getting a bit
extreme here, but it does pretty much render that argument null and void.

> ...what was always interesting to me about the Cocteaux was that their
> music seemed to have no relation to their everyday personalities, as
was
> abundantly clear from interviews. It was something like possession, it
just
> came to them and they didn't have the facilities to explain it.
Somewhere
> around 1988 or so I think they lost that connection to the sublime, and
they've
> been left to make music with their daylight personalities and nothing
to go
> on but a few fading memories and the master tapes to their old stuff...

This is the most coherent explanation of this concept I've ever come
across.  Someone else suggested that they were making better music when
Robin was doing serious amounts of drugs.  Sadly, this may be the
case...after all, around the time that they "lost their connection to the
sublime" was also when Robin began cleaning up, correct?  Just a
thought...

---Jeremy 

"high times, hard times, downtown julie brown"

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:49:03 -0500
From: JRR TOLKIEN (GGNL44A@PRODIGY.COM)
Subject: Opinions


      I think I finally found out the reason why people saying they
didn't like M&K and other albums that I like really bothers me. It
really has nothing to do with them not liking it. It has more to do
with the reasons they say they don't like it. One of the things that
really gets to me and irritates me more than anything else in the
world is when someone says that they don't like a particular thing
(music or otherwise) and they like to lay blame to something with
absolutely no reason or credible evidence for such an opinion.
     Case in point: laying blame on the artist... this is absolutely
stupid. Unless you personally KNOW the artist at hand, you cannot say
they "sold out", "compromised their style to sell more records",
"have lost that magic touch they used to have", or other such stupid
and completely anal left brain opininated reasons. And making
assumptions they it must be true is just as stupid. There are other
totally stupid and completely anal reasons I have seen named on here
for not liking M&K and other music that I am not even going to bother
going into because I will probably just be inserting my foot in my
wide open mouth.
      Really, though... think before you close your mind off to
certain music. Try not to be so opinionated. Don't make up/think up
stupid and totally unfounded reasons to not like certain music or
support your reasons for not liking it. Whatever happened to liking
or not liking a particular thing purely on the basis that it is [not]
the kind of thing you are personally into? I see this as not just a
small problem isolated to music elitists. I see this as a major
problem with the world today. Highly close-minded and opinionated
people that are not even interested in what is fact and what is
fiction make laws that we have to answer for day in and day out. Its
called Government. People bitch about how out of touch they think
politicians and lawyers are today without even thinking how
hypocritical they are in doing so (myself included). Politicians and
lawyers are paid grotesque amounts of money for opinions regardless
if they are the right or wrong ones (or if they are theirs or not).
The more successful ones are the ones that pay less attention to fact
(or what they believe to be right) and more attention to public
opinion. If they ever had an excuse for what they have done and what
they are doing to society, that would be it. My question is what is
our excuse? In otherwords, we are not getting paid lots of money for
opinion, so we have no reason to just come up with one without first
thinking it out logically and not making up some story based on what
we might have heard from someone or read somewhere or other or
thought we read or heard.
      Make sense? I hope I haven't lost you. In this day and age of
information, misinformation is our worst enemy. Taking and believing
something as fact blindy without finding out for yourself is idiocy.
I'm not saying that you should watch what you are saying or you will
be held accountable for what you have said. My opinion is that if you
only speak (or type) those opinions of which you are aware of, you
come off as a more educated and wiser person. If you find yourself
interested enough in something to find out more about it, you
certainly don't give someone an opinion about it until you have found
all the facts. Just like while you are doing a math equation, you
don't turn your answer into the teacher with half the work done and a
guess of what the answer would be if you had done it all out.
      A lot of people think to that society as a whole are all a
bunch of lambs. Nothing proves this fact more than the amount of
opinions people have on a variety of subjects based solely on what
they saw on TV or what they might have got skimming an article in the
newspaper or saw on someones web page, etc. I'd have to say with my
experience that the majority of most people's opinions are less
rooted in facts that they have found out for themselves than on what
they heard, read, or saw somewhere.
      Test it out. Next time you are sitting around thinking about
something or talking to someone about something (anything), ask
yourself or them the reasons why they believe that way. Do you
believe that socialism is a bad way of government because you have
studied it yourself and compared it objectively with our own system
of government or others? Or do you believe that it is bad because
most of us grew up in a capitalist society during a time of fierce
competition with a socialistic society (USSR)? Do you believe that
drugs are bad for you because or your own personal use and/or
research of the facts? Or do you believe that they are bad based on
the strick stance society has taken on there use and the anti-drug
propaganda that is spoonfed us everyday? Just a couple of generic
questions to help you to understand what type of questions you should
ask yourself.
      To return to the point at hand. If you don't like something say
so if you feel like it. Say why you don't like it if you feel like it.
 But be prepared to answer for those reasons. Having well founded
reasons for the opinions you do have will be the mark of an
intelligent person and most likely make a positive impression on
others if there ego does not get in the way. If you like something
say so if you feel like it. And if you have reasons for liking it put
them down if you can put it into words. It will help others
understand your opinion and come to the same conclusion if it is in
them to have the same feelings that you do.
      In closing I would like to apologise for this long email. As
you can see I am a very long winded person when I get around to it,
and unfortunately a recovering opinionated person. But I do believe I
have seen the light and that the only way to truly enjoy art (music
included) is through the unopinionated right brain. True art comes
from and is best enjoyed with as little of the left brain involved as
possible.

      Ryan (GGNL44A@Prodigy.com)

P.S. Flames are to sent to me personally, please. And I really am
sincere in my apology for such a long email with little or nothing to
do with Thislisty music.


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:15:12 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Opinions

              Dec 17, 96 07:49:03 am

 JRR TOLKIEN  wrote on Tue, 17 Dec 1996
 (Subject: Opinions)
 > I think I finally found out the reason why people saying they
 > didn't like M&K and other albums that I like really bothers me.

 I think Jens has just replaced einexile as the official list scapegoat
 and Great Satan...

 First this:
 > Unless you personally KNOW the artist at hand, you cannot say they
 > "sold out", "compromised their style to sell more records", "have
 > lost that magic touch they used to have", or other such stupid and
 > completely anal left brain opininated reasons.  And making
 > assumptions they it must be true is just as stupid.  There are
 > other totally stupid and completely anal reasons I have seen named
 > on here for not liking M&K and other music that I am not even going
 > to bother going into because I will probably just be inserting my
 > foot in my wide open mouth.

 And then a lot of blethering about "finding things out for yourself"
 and having "well-founded" (presumably anal left-brain logical)
 reasons for liking or disliking things.

 First this:
 > I'm not saying that you should watch what you are saying or you
 > will be held accountable for what you have said.

 And then this:
 > To return to the point at hand.  If you don't like something say so
 > if you feel like it.  Say why you don't like it if you feel like
 > it.  But be prepared to answer for those reasons.

 First this:
 > I'd have to say with my experience that the majority of most
 > people's opinions are less rooted in facts that they have found out
 > for themselves than on what they heard, read, or saw somewhere.

 And then this:
 > And if you have reasons for liking it put them down if you can put
 > it into words.  It will help others understand your opinion and
 > come to the same conclusion if it is in them to have the same
 > feelings that you do.

 (So are people allowed to form their opinions based on what they heard,
 read or saw somewhere, or not?  Or is the difference the fact that it's
 *your* opinion they are absorbing?  Are they supposed to base their
 opinions on facts or feelings?)

 > As you can see I am a very long winded person when I get around to
 > it, and unfortunately a recovering opinionated person.  But I do
 > believe I have seen the light and that the only way to truly enjoy
 > art (music included) is through the unopinionated right brain.
 > True art comes from and is best enjoyed with as little of the left
 > brain involved as possible.

 Well, to get back to that list of anal left-brain reasons why people
 less philosophical than yourself say they hate "Milk and Kisses":

 > "sold out",

 Opinion, usually based on an obvious lurch towards a more commercial
 sound, and usually held by moronic punk rockers.  Haven't seen this
 particular phrase applied to the Cocteaus.

 > "compromised their style to sell more records",

 Polite way of saying the same thing.  I don't think the Cocteaus have
 necessarily done this, though there has been a gradual drift towards a
 more commercially acceptable style.  I think it's because (like most of
 us) they are getting a bit middle-aged.

 > "have lost that magic touch they used to have",

 Surely this is the epitome of the non-logical, unanalytical response
 to an artist? Whatever attracts us to the Cocteaus is different for
 each individual - and I'd guess it's very different for people who
 have been working backwards from M&K or 4CC, and those (like myself)
 who have been buying each new release for a dozen years or so (I
 started with "Head over Heels").  In the case of the Cocteaus, or
 Throwing Muses, I'd definitely say they have lost the initial magic
 which attracted me to them (though both bands' most recent albums
 have been great improvements on recent form, which I have thoroughly
 enjoyed while also lamenting the fact that they aren't "Bluebell
 Knoll" or "House Tornado").  Perhaps there's something else,
 something equally intangible and unquantifiable, which makes M&K or
 even 4CC immensely attractive to you.  Fine.

 There seems to be a real problem with some people on this list
 accepting that people have opinions, opinions differ, and that people
 whose opinions differ from you are not morons, fascists or
 brainwashed.  Just because a piece of text isn't liberally sprinkled
 with IMHOs and abject apologies for expressing a personal view, that
 doesn't make it an attempt to impose the author's opinions on
 everyone else.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England
nja@le.ac.uk


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:48:19 -0500
From: lee harvey fnordwald (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Opinions


        JRR Toilet provided the following nugget of coherent
        prose in an otherwise expansive and syntactically challenged
        diatribe:


 But I do believe I
> have seen the light and that the only way to truly enjoy art (music
> included) is through the unopinionated right brain. True art comes
> from and is best enjoyed with as little of the left brain involved as
> possible.
>

        uuuh... if you think that there could ever be such a thing
        as an "only way" to enjoy something called "true art,"
        you may want to look for a different light, cuz the one you're
        seeing seems to have blinded you to a universe of possibilities.


        p.s.    milk and kisses is crap.



 ************************************************************************
   Now I need to come down slowly
   I need to come down slowly                               D
   so let me down now gently                                a
   very, very gently                                        n   K
   so that when I finally hit it                            i   l
   I'll hit the deck real slow                              e   y
                                                            l   n
   sweet anaesthesia
   sweet anaesthesia                             owilde@umich.edu
   sweet anaesthesia                             Document Defnording
       -david j-                                 Wondermonkey Cabal
************************************************************************


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:42:54 PST
From: Tom Weibrecht (tweibrecht@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Books for sick kids --GREAT JOB ( was: DON'T DO IT)


first off, i would hardly call houghton mifflin "financially
strapped"...i am a trustee on a board of education and see the cost of their tex
books all the time...and even if they are "financially strapped"
vis-a-vis other publishers, maybe it is because they have not shown the
social conscience i believe they should...when i deal with corporations
in my  capacity i look at things like this...if a publisher proves to me
that they donate books on a regular basis, they sure as hell get a
greater consideration than one who does it as a gimmick at xmas
time...and if they really did donate books whenever they wanted to, why
did they ask for the "mail bombs"...or did they think that no one out
here cares enough, and that they wouldnt get any mail? have corporations
become that cynical to believe that no one gives a crap? the point is
that, regardless of what happened to their poor servers, the people on
this list, and all the others showed a level of concern for sick kids
and the willingness to go the extra mile to help them...even if it meant
screwing up some replaceable equipment...its a matter of priorities, and
i for one will always choose helping a life before worrying about some flippin m
chine...and, btw, i spend alot of time in pediatric hospitals as
a home and hospice instructor, and yes, i donate books also...again, good
work people...and happy holidays, you have alot to feel good about...

tom w


On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:25:47 -0800 Jens Alfke 
>Tom Weibrecht wrote:
>>great job listpeople...
>
>This thing was posted all over the place, not on this list; I don't
>think
>the 1,000 people on this list really made much difference. The
>announcement didn't even get posted on this list until after I'd
>already
>heard elsewhere HM's plea to please stop sending mail. So feel good if
>you want, but any messages anyone sent as a result of the announcement
>here were just noise.
>
>>im sure this corporation can afford new mail servers...
>
>Don't bet on it. Try "one small department of a financially strapped
>publishing company".
>
>>maybe they should make this a monthly event...or, how about if
>>we remind them of their social responsibility?...who said the people
>are
>>powerless?
>
>Pretty weird analysis since (a) it was their idea, no one had to
>"remind
>them", (b) they can just give away the books on their own without
>having
>to get mailbombed for their trouble, and (c) the more money they have
>to
>spend on keeping their servers running the less they can spend on
>donations. If you're so all fired up about books for sick kids why
>don't
>_you_ buy a couple and donate them to a hospital?
>
>I hate to see people congratulating themselves for participating in a
>mailbombing, even if the victims brought it on themselves by their own
>cluelessness. In the future think twice about anything you get that
>says
>"everyone should send mail to XXXX..."
>
>__________         _____________________
>_______________________
>Jens Alfke\        Wild-Eyed Java Zealot\        jens@apple.com
>-work\
>                                                 jens@mooseyard.com
>-play\
>
>              Paget saw an Irish tooth, Sir, in a waste gap.
>
>_____________________________
>
>


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:39:53 EST
From: Matthew T DeBellis (loomer5@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Wolfhounds


About a year ago I bought a Wolfhounds cassette called "Blown Away".  I
listened to it a little bit, but only recently have found out what an
incredible album this is.  Are all the other woflhounds albums this good?
 i'm really really impressed and think this is much much better than
post-Margaret Moonshake.  Are all the Wolfhounds stuff hard to find?
Someone give me some info!  Also, about Midnight Records, if Too Pure
picked up all the Midnight Records bands?  Thanks....


Matt

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:19:04 -0500
From: TIM CONLON (U590@SYSM.ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU)
Subject: Moon Seven Times


   Found "Sunburnt" in the used bin this morning for all of $ 2.  On
Roadrunner, dated 1997.


TIM CONLON
U590@sysm.acs.Virginia.EDU

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:05:16 EST
From: "C.K. Coney" (violaine@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Opinions


On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:15:12 +0000 Andrew Norman 
> JRR TOLKIEN  wrote on Tue, 17 Dec 1996
> (Subject: Opinions)
> > I think I finally found out the reason why people saying they
> > didn't like M&K and other albums that I like really bothers me.
>
> I think Jens has just replaced einexile as the official list
>scapegoat
> and Great Satan...
>
And like einexile, will he soon go into exile? Then who will take HIS
place?  ;-)

Carol


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:05:16 EST
From: "C.K. Coney" (violaine@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Critics


On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:06:14 -0500 arbogast  writes:
>>This is a pretty weird line of argument, IMHO. Most mainstream
>critics
>>(yes, that includes anyone writing for a large metropolitan
>newspaper)
>>have very milquetoast tastes. My favorite example is Robert "I
>worship
>>U2, Prince and Springsteen" Hilburn of the LA Times, who as a bonus
>>writes the most leaden, plodding prose of any music critic I can
>imagine;
>>I'm actually glad he doesn't review anything remotely offbeat since
>if he
>>did I'd probably end up hating the band in question just by virtue of
>his
>>awful writing.
>
>The main guy at the NY Times (can't remember his name) is like that
>too.
>Critics in the non-mainstream press tend to fall into two categories:
>(1)
>the "more punk than thou" types; and (2) the kind who are inexplicably
>bitter and will use any opportunity to slag bands they hate,

Actually, Mark Jenkins, who I mentioned before & which mention led to
this thread rolling off the assembly line, well, Mr. Jenkins, even tho he
writes for (very ) mainstream Washington Post, would fall into the "more
punk than thou" category. He also reviews for the DC weekly cultural
ad-rag, City Paper. And his reviews in both publications have pretty much
the same tone.

Carol


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:53:28 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Opinions


Tolkien, whom I had thought was dead, is quoted as saying:
>> But I do believe I
>> have seen the light and that the only way to truly enjoy art (music
>> included) is through the unopinionated right brain. True art comes
>> from and is best enjoyed with as little of the left brain involved as
>> possible.

Can we please go back and read at least a few factual descriptions of the
psychology of brain hemispheres -- not just nu-age paperbacks by
defrocked physicists or yogis with big hair -- before we go talking about
"right brain" and "left brain"? Saying that the right brain is
"unopinionated" is nonsense. Nonverbal but hardly unopinionated! I'm
racking both my brains trying to remember whether music perception is
dominant in one hemisphere and if so which one; I know that the right
hemisphere handles spatial perception tasks such as playing Super Mario
64, but I'm drawing a blank on musical perception. Note that even if the
right brain is responsible for music perception, then it's what's causing
the instinctive (and opinionated) nausea you feel when listening to
Michael Bolton, although it's the left brain that comes up with "This
fully sucks, dude!"

What I think is actually happening is that people are latching onto the
rough idea of differences in brain hemispheres, as reported to them by
magazine articles or the aforementioned paperbacks, and projecting their
own higher level feelings of duality onto them. Thus the popular myth
about the persnickety pocket-protector'ed left brain and tie-dyed
dope-smokin' right brain. It's the Doctor Jekyll & Mr. Hyde of our time,
only this time it's Hyde who's the good guy and Jekyll the bad guy. Make
of that what you will.

This has been a message from the Great Satan (thanks, Andrew!).

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:37:03 -0500
From: Michael Borum (iceblink@TIAC.NET)
Subject: Alas dies laughing...[AKA: Twinsgate]


>> ...what was always interesting to me about the Cocteaux was that their
>>music seemed to have no relation to their everyday personalities, as with
>>possession, it just came to them and they didn't have the facilities to
explain >>it. Somewhere around 1988 or so I think they lost that connection
to the sublime, >>and they've been left to make music with their daylight
personalities and nothing
>>to go on but a few fading memories and the master tapes to their old stuff...
>
>This is the most coherent explanation of this concept I've ever come
>across.  Someone else suggested that they were making better music when
>Robin was doing serious amounts of drugs.  Sadly, this may be the
>case...after all, around the time that they "lost their connection to the
>sublime" was also when Robin began cleaning up, correct?  Just a
>thought...


They still can't explain why they do what they do or what how it
evolves--they're still trying to figure that out themselves -- and have
actually stopped worrying about it. What may be different is that they
better understand what role it plays in their individual lives and that they
realize how important it is to each of them.

I think the problem here has NOTHING to do with the Cocteau Twins.  It has
EVERYTHING to do with the fact that not everyone (read: Fans and Music
Critics) handles change very well, and sometimes you just have to get off
the bus when the time is right.  We're talking about a band who have to-date
recorded over 130 songs on roughly 27 separate releases over a period of 15
years.  They've toured the world at least 3 times, and Europe countless
times.  They started making music when they were teenagers--which at this
point means they've been at it most or all of their adult lives.  People
change, and when you're as productive and inspired as they are--the music
will too.

For the record, the only really special thing (in addition to Simon becoming
a father) that happened in 1988 was the release of Blue Bell Knoll.  It
sounded different because it was the first album recorded in a studio of
their own and on which they had total control of the recording process.

Simon and his wife had their first son in 1988. Elizabeth and Robin had
their baby in 1989. Anyone who says having a baby doesn't turn your life
upside down is a complete idiot.

Robin's drug problem didn't become serious until 1990, and he didn't clean
up until 1992.  Drug abuse and rehab is no picnic.

Liz had an emotional breakdown in 1992/93 during the recording of
Four-Calendar Cafe.  Yet ANOTHER cathartic life experience.  In subsequent
therapy, she coped with childhood molestation, bulemia, codependency, and
low self-image problems.

In 1993/94, Liz and Robin ended their romantic relationship and have since
continued on the grounds of friendship.

In 1996, Robin married and now has a step-son in addition to Lucy.

See what I mean?  LIFE HAPPENS even if you're the creators of sublime music.
And how can life NOT affect an artist's music?  Things change for reasons
over which we have neither control NOR influence, and if you don't like it,
then get off the bus. Don't blame THEM for it.  If nothing else, they
deserve credit for being so strong and for loving what they do so much that
it survives such turbulence.  Most bands would have just given up.

By 1986, they had already accomplished what 90% of all bands only wish for.
They had made an indelible impression on music history and had established
their own "genre" of musical expression. But as far as they were concerned,
they hadn't gotten it right yet, and still had a lot they wanted to do (and
STILL have).  Not for us, not for their record company, but for THEMSELVES.
Is it somehow imperative that they continue to break new ground and make
music history?  WHY?  They had done that already without even realizing it
or even trying, and it really isn't their motivation to do so.  It's unfair
to turn that around on them and say that they somehow "lost it" after
1986--not to mention that for someone to make such a statement is to
misunderstand what it's like to be an artist who is possessed by what he/she
does and to presume that you are somehow privvy to what's going on inside
their heads.

And just because they continue to build from the same pallette makes them
uninspired and lackluster??  If you lined up all of Picasso's paintings,
there would be an undeniable sense of continuity among them all with
different periods of expression and a certain sense of chronological
evolution. You wouldn't necessarily like all of them, but you likewise
couldn't deny that he was an important force in the evolution of art and did
what he did for his own reasons.  The same can be said of Dali's work.  How
silly it would be to say out of hand, "Old Salvador just LOST IT after those
first 10 paintings.  He's just been beating that dead Surrealist horse ever
since."  But SO WHAT IF HE WAS?  It's HIS DEAD HORSE, isn't it?  But to
assert such a thing only because it no longer affected YOU as an individual
the way it once did is rather narrow minded, and certainly presumptuous.

I feel it's healthier to see them as continuing to develop their craft in
their own particular way, and to explore the boundaries of this thing they
have created.  Nobody said you had to like it.  And for everyone who
believes that Pre-1986 Cocteaus were the best, there's someone who feels the
same way about Post-1986 work. Then there are those who love it ALL.  You
take from it what you can...

Sorry again for being so long-winded.  Thanks for reading this far if you
managed to do so.


Mike
iceblink@tiac.net


Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:17:59 +0000
From: Francis Tilley (francis@deepseat.demon.co.uk)
Subject: Rare Indie and Alternative records for sale.

          oi-list@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca, skagroup@list.pitt.edu,
          jpop@ferkel.ucsb.edu

I've got a list of around 250 rare alternatate and 'indie' records,
they are mainly in excellent condition.

If you would like to see a list please mail a message to
francis@deepseat.demon.co.uk with the message body send list.

If you are not interested, sorry for posting to this list. Please note
this is a private record sale.


Francis.

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:38:42 -0500
From: Elizabeth A Grove (egrove@IC.SUNYSB.EDU)
Subject: Re: Moon Seven Times


On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, TIM CONLON wrote:

>    Found "Sunburnt" in the used bin this morning for all of $ 2.  On
> Roadrunner, dated 1997.
>
what a coincidence
I listened to 7=49 for the 1st time in 2 years last night.
Is this like 7=49 or the one released on Third Mind?

thanks