4ad-l Mail for 11-27-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: 4AD for sale
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:49:12 -0500
From: Elizabeth A Grove (egrove@IC.SUNYSB.EDU)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:28:24 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Mail filters, where to get 'em
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:52:11 -0700
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: fondlemyears
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:52:15 -0800
From: alison lorraine (alison@PIL.NET)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:31:12 -0800
From: alison lorraine (alison@PIL.NET)
Subject: tanya's slidin and divin
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:08:42 -0600
From: foss (foss@SHOGA.WWA.COM)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:36:28 -0600
From: nancy Doodle (ndoodle@OU.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD for sale
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:00:47 -0500
From: Aaron Hill (Fan4AD@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Mail filters, where to get 'em
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:05:21 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: looking for mouth by mouth? anyone?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 05:03:03 -0500
From: "James M. Renaud" (jrenaud@GOPHER.CHEM.WAYNE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Schroedinger ate my digital brain
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:57:39 -0500
From: "James M. Renaud" (jrenaud@GOPHER.CHEM.WAYNE.EDU)
Subject: G1 (plug plug plug)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:10:54 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Including: Tanya + Scheer + 4AD Quiz + 4AD Poll + Paladins
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:18:26 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: v23 burns Bush
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:17:56 +0100
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: Important News Please Read
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:40:25 +0100
From: Milosz Zielinski (zielinski@DATACOMM.CH)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins chat
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:42:46 -0500
From: liles melissa m (mmlile@FACSTAFF.WM.EDU)
Subject: Re: Schroedinger ate my digital brain
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:19:19 -0500
From: Robert Lasher (toffel@CRIS.COM)
Subject: Re: Schroedinger ate my digital brain
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:24:49 -0500
From: lee harvey fnordwald (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Belly-Up
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:48:46 -0700
From: Christopher Hanis (cmhanis@NYX.NYX.NET)
Subject: G1 (plug plug plug)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:38:05 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: old "4AD"
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:06:43 -0500
From: Elizabeth A Grove (egrove@IC.SUNYSB.EDU)
Subject: Re: sliding and diving
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:50:14 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins chat
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:52:31 GMT
From: Paul Spirito (spiritop@WINTHROP.SLIC.COM)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:49:42 +0000
From: kevin hankey (kevin@WEBMEDIA.COM)
Subject: Re: wolfgang press
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:25:40 -0500
From: Quisquose (quisquose@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Oops, my mistake. Sloan *here*
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:23:43 -0500
From: "Carneiro, Anabela" (bubbles@YESIC.COM)
Subject: 4AD-Detox? Aeroplane 12''?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:04:44 -0700
From: "Igor V. Boronenkov" (iboronen@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Whatever...
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:34:40 EST
From: Jeremy L Orr (j.orr@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Re: Main(?)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:43:04 -0800
From: "Gil Gershman (GuerillaG)" (gman2@SPRYNET.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD-Detox? Aeroplane 12''?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:14:07 -0500
From: Creig Jacobson (CreigJ@AOL.COM)

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:49:12 -0500
From: Elizabeth A Grove (egrove@IC.SUNYSB.EDU)
Subject: 4AD for sale


Greetings again,

are there any "old" 4AD people out there anymore?
In any case, here's some stuff I'm ridding of.
all prices negotiable

old wave:
This Mortal Coil "Filigree and Shadow" double lp vinyl. Excellent cond.
Different art from cd.  Best offer!
Bauhaus "Rest in Peace" 2xcd 1st edition Best offer!
        "Sky's Gone Out" unopened $9
        Tones on Tail (2/3) of Bauhaus- "Christian Says" vinyl $12
                                        self entitled cd $9-almost all of
                                        their stuff.
The Moon and the Melodies vinyl lp. The CTwins + Harold Budd $12 mint

the new wave:
His Name is Alive "Livonia" unopened cd $10 cassette $4
                "Home is in Your Head" unopened cd $10 cassette $4
Belly "Sivertooth" Japanese import cd unopened $14
        "Super Conducted" Japanese import cd $10 unopened
Red House Painters- self entitled promo cd $6
many Pixies $9

If interested e mail me privately,

Elizabeth
        hey MN I got your mail! Return?

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:28:24 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???


alison wrote:
>I don't know about any of you people, but I am tired of seeing bands like
>the muses and belly slammed by magazines (like my latest issue of Rolling
>Stone) as being ONE HIT WONDERS.

I long ago stopped caring how many records bands sell or how much airplay
they get. The really cutting edge music is never picked up on by the
masses, and by the time people do catch on to new styles of music they're
generally watered down by popular artists rushing onto the bandwagon.
That's the story of the 20th century. For me, my disillusionment came in
the early '80s as I watched the excitement and power of punk and the new
wave being watered down into cheesy novelty synth pop by stations like
KROQ and bands like Berlin, Wham!, Pet Shop Boys, etc. Just ignore it and
listen to what you like.

__________          ___________________          ________________________
Jens Alfke          Recovering C++ User          jens@apple.com     [work]
                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]

  'Time in the shadow of the wing of the thing too big to see, rising.'
                                            _____________________________
                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:52:11 -0700
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Mail filters, where to get 'em

              1996 09:32:29 +0000

>   I  use elm, which has an associated filter
>   program (called "filter")  which is fairly easy to use

If elm is installed you can use the filter even if you prefer to use another
mail program (e.g., pine).  Just type "man filter" to find out how it works.

>   You can even use vi to edit your messages,
>   which can only  be a good thing.

Now there's a bonus, but just don't try using a normal word processor afterwards
or you'll be typing dd, x, esc, i, and A all over the place and you won't even
understand why the computer doesn't respond appropriately.

-cz
ZZ


Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:52:15 -0800
From: alison lorraine (alison@PIL.NET)
Subject: Re: fondlemyears


James P. Crimm wrote:
>
> <<<<
>      I think that 'blum' (with a little B) looks better and also has the
> correct Deutch pronunciation. It has that clipped one-word title that was
> popular with the shoe-gazers (Curve, Ride) and now with the...er...whatever
> Oasis, Blur, and Suade are. BTW, Suede's single, Beautiful Ones, is pretty
> good, except that it cost $20 for the 2 parts. I sure miss those rockers
> like Metal Micky, though. (Oh, you will note that the headings become
> hideously irrelevent to the content as listies go off on tangents.
>
>                                                  Pat F. Crimm
> Oh, Allison is one of my favorite names. Maybe you should call your band
> "Allison"!                                 Cheers, PC


Yeah,

I have thought the same, using 'blum' with a bar over the 'u' to imply
long vowel sound...perhaps I will yet do it.

Thanks for the complements on my name, and it wasn't even my idea.  But
please spell it with one 'l'.  I have so many extra 'l's now, I don't
know what to do with them.

Take it Easy,

a l i s o n
l         o
i         s
s         i
o         l
n o s i l a

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:31:12 -0800
From: alison lorraine (alison@PIL.NET)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???


the mystery parade wrote:
>
> >I don't know about any of you people, but I am tired of seeing bands like
> >the muses and belly slammed by magazines (like my latest issue of Rolling
> >Stone) as being ONE HIT WONDERS.
>
> The Muses had a HIT???
>
> (Don't get me wrong: I absolutely adore TM...)
>
> t h e   m y s t e r y   p a r a d e
> http://home.earthlink.net/~tmp/
> {ceci n'est pas une web site}


yes--it was called "Bright Yellow Gun" I believe.

a l i s o n
l         o
i         s
s         i
o         l
n o s i l a


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:08:42 -0600
From: foss (foss@SHOGA.WWA.COM)
Subject: tanya's slidin and divin


        with the release of her first solo EP, theres been a lot of squakin' abo
t
tanya D recently.  there's also been a lot of tanya bashing from people who
thought she ate up the glitzy rock star image while she was in belly.
---and yeah i can see where people are coming from by saying that.  but
this and that aside, the final question should really be is she creating
quality muse?  i thought she did with her belly releases and i definately
think her new solo EP is quality.   higher quality.

        bum is the first track it's definately nothing from what i was expecting

i initially thought i started one of my techno CDs in my cd changer when i
heard the first 2 seconds.  it begins with a quick loop drum loop and flips
into a chorus of guitar noise and onward into her singing-- distorted and
processed which goes into the songs chorus with slightly less processed
vocals.  throughout it switches back and forth between the two.  a kick
snare drum loop continues in the background.  halfway through all but a
sparse drum loop and her vocals cut out.  and back into the layers of
sound.  it's very cool and it's very not what i expected.

        restless is more of what i was expecting to hear.  acoustic and steel
guitars and an organ.  twangy and lovely.

        human is really the only 'rock song'ish one of the bunch.  it's the leas

interesting to me and i can't think of much to say about it.  "do you think
you're a human to me? / i don't know what you expected / you're barely
homo-erectus".  egh---

        swoon is maybe the best song on the EP.  again, twangy and sweet with a
really swell vocal melody.  it's got some quirky string arragements and ==
well it's really tingly on the ears and pleasing.  i believe i'll go back
to listening to it now!

        also, it's budget priced!  i got mine on import for only $3.99.  now tha

is nice for a change.

(oops pUN)

cool illustration too.

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:36:28 -0600
From: nancy Doodle (ndoodle@OU.EDU)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???


amen, it's the truth, too much energy gets wasted on image. just love it and
listen!

At 05:28 PM 11/26/96 -0800, you wrote:
>alison wrote:
>>I don't know about any of you people, but I am tired of seeing bands like
>>the muses and belly slammed by magazines (like my latest issue of Rolling
>>Stone) as being ONE HIT WONDERS.
>
>I long ago stopped caring how many records bands sell or how much airplay
>they get. The really cutting edge music is never picked up on by the
>masses, and by the time people do catch on to new styles of music they're
>generally watered down by popular artists rushing onto the bandwagon.
>That's the story of the 20th century. For me, my disillusionment came in
>the early '80s as I watched the excitement and power of punk and the new
>wave being watered down into cheesy novelty synth pop by stations like
>KROQ and bands like Berlin, Wham!, Pet Shop Boys, etc. Just ignore it and
>listen to what you like.
>
>__________          ___________________          ________________________
>Jens Alfke          Recovering C++ User          jens@apple.com     [work]
>                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]
>
>  'Time in the shadow of the wing of the thing too big to see, rising.'
>                                            _____________________________
>                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
>
>

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:00:47 -0500
From: Aaron Hill (Fan4AD@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD for sale


In a message dated 96-11-27 01:03:32 EST, you write:

<< are there any "old" 4AD people out there anymore? >>
What does this mean?  I have been into 4ad since early, early 1980s and I
still love 4ad's stuff (Paladins can go), but most stuff is as good now as
ever.


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:05:21 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Mail filters, where to get 'em

              at Nov 26, 96 06:52:11 pm

 cz  wrote on Tue, 26 Nov 1996
 (Subject: Re: Mail filters, where to get 'em)
 >
 > > You can even use vi to edit your messages, which can only be a
 > > good thing.
 >
 > Now there's a bonus, but just don't try using a normal word
 > processor afterwards or you'll be typing dd, x, esc, i, and A all
 > over the place and you won't even understand why the computer
 > doesn't respond appropriately.

 That's the truth!  It's amazing what an utter mess you can make in Word
 for Windows by keeping your brain in vi mode.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England
nja@le.ac.uk

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 05:03:03 -0500
From: "James M. Renaud" (jrenaud@GOPHER.CHEM.WAYNE.EDU)
Subject: looking for mouth by mouth? anyone?


does anyone have mouth by mouth by hnia? my best friend's ex girlfriend
has my only copy and my friend doesn't talk to her anymore. i am
interseted in either vinyl or cd.
also anyone want to get rid of:

glee club, gus gus, stina nordenstam?

please reply to me personally

**************************** star vein ***********************************
**************************** http://www.science.wayne.edu/~jrenaud *******
**************************** jrenaud@sun.science.wayne.edu ***************
**************************************************************************
"since feeling is first who pays any attention to the syntax of things" **
***** e.e. cummings ******************************************************
**************************************************************************
**************************************************************************


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:57:39 -0500
From: "James M. Renaud" (jrenaud@GOPHER.CHEM.WAYNE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Schroedinger ate my digital brain

du>

if anyone wants the advanced promotional automated alice book let me know

in a personal email. i thought the book was great.


> >         That's "brillig" ... incidentally, Jeff Noon of "Vurt" fame has
> >         just come out with a tongue-in-cheek sequel/parody of the
>           "Alice" books entitled "Automated Alice" in which Our Heroine
>           escapes through the innards of a clock into 1998.
>
> something sortof funny about this bit from lewis carrol's "jabberwocky."
> i recently read a paper which was discussing apparent chaos (among other
> things), and the observation was made that this seemingly nonsensical
> wordplay is actually a highly structured anglo-saxon wordplay, following
> rhythmical and spelling patterns from the olde tongue.
>
> the bit in my .sig is excerpted from the standard editon of carrol's
> story, which preserves his original spellings. the double-"y" of bryllyg
> links up with the double-"y" of slythy, and corresponds with a larger
> matrix which runs thru the whole poem. carrol was a mathematician long
> before becoming reknown for storytelling, and it is fascinating that where
> some people see chaotic mumbo-jumbo, others see pattern and meaning.
>
>
> ****************************************************************************
>
> Twas bryllyg, and the slythy toves              owilde@umich.edu
>  Did gyre and gymble in the wabe:               daniel klyn
> All mimsy were the borogoves;                   textual exegesisist
>  and the mome raths outgrabe.                   wondermonkey cabal
>
> ****************************************************************************
>

**************************** star vein ***********************************
**************************** http://www.science.wayne.edu/~jrenaud *******
**************************** jrenaud@sun.science.wayne.edu ***************
**************************************************************************
"since feeling is first who pays any attention to the syntax of things" **
***** e.e. cummings ******************************************************
**************************************************************************
**************************************************************************

Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:10:54 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: G1 (plug plug plug)


Just bought me a book:

G1
Subj. contemp. design, graphic
Contr. Various

(that's the title...)

192 PP, 288mm x 232mm
460 ill. 398 col.
ISBN 1-85669-092-X
Printed in UK

(that's the other info on the cover...)

Anyway... It's a very good book about 2D, 3D and 4D graphic design or - as
they write on the cover: "G1 is a collection of contemporary graphic design
like no other. G1 gathers innovative work from many of the world's most
influential graphic designers... and then omits their names from the pages.
G1 presents some of the very best of high design but mixes it with raw
vernacular graphics, the found images that inspire designers. G1 is not a
book for the passive. To find out all that's inside, the reader has to
interact with the book and make it their own."

Anyway... Is v23 in it? Yes, two times. In the 2D part with two pages of
recent Lush sleeves (photographs with lush-logo) and 6 pages in the 4D part
- a complete reproduction of the This Rimy River Limited Edition, so you
can read the poem (not an easy job with the original book).

And that isn't even the best part.


If you're a graphic designer: buy it! (price about $45)



Anyway,



Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, November 24, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl


Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:18:26 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Including: Tanya + Scheer + 4AD Quiz + 4AD Poll + Paladins


Me received a copy of the first Tanya Donelly cds today: sounds good -> I
like the track 'Swoon' with Dave Lovering on the drums. (this donelly-woman
sounds just like that girl from belly...)

Those nice folks at 4AD Mail Order also included that Scheer promo, first
track is great, they should work a little bit more on the second one...

And... the Mail Order department also included... a 4AD QUIZ (!) A lot of
very hard questions for 4AD freaks. I don't know the answers to many of
them. A few of them are easy: Where do Clan Of Xymox come from? Well,
that's of course the "Xymox Islands"! If you win - and I will, believe me -
you will get a very rare and limited v23 bucket (they used them at recent
exhibitions). The quiz is for subscribers only.

And... the Mail Order department also included... a 4AD
end-of-the-year-poll (!) -> best record (paladins), best sleeve (paladins)
etc. Quiz answers and poll results will be included at the first 1997
release (paladins, I hope).

Isn't that fun!


Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, November 26, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl


arrived today (what took them so long you would ask... well, I don't
know... maybe they had some fun (paladins concert) at the xymox islands on
their way to 4AD-Land...


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:17:56 +0100
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: v23 burns Bush


When I looked at the sleeve of the latest Buch release (Razorblade
Suitcase) I thought I was looking at a David Carson design (because he did
their first one and invented their name) but after watching some of the
booklets pages and typography I thought "Carson goes Oliver!". And indeed -
after reading the small print - design: Vaughan Oliver/Timothy O'Donnell.
Very good pictures of burning letters and images (or as Beavis should say:
FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!)

Didn't had time to *listen* to the record in the shop - is it any good?


Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, November 27, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:40:25 +0100
From: Milosz Zielinski (zielinski@DATACOMM.CH)
Subject: Re: Important News Please Read


I would like to apologize everyone who feeled attacked by my post. I have
nothing against freedom of speech and democracy (although I`m an anarchist).
I`m on a anarchism mailing list and I regullary read the alt.drugs.pot
newsgroup. But I still think that you can`t allow freedom of speech to
people who hate others because of whatever. Also I believe that everyone of
you can think for himself. I was quoted by wizard@bga.com "don`t think for
yourself just vote no on rec.music.white-power". I did never write this and
I would never. In my message was included what this neo-nazi said and
everyone knows what nazis stand for. If you think the creation of such a
newsgroup is right you could also vote yes on rec.music.white-power, the
email address was given and you had the opportunity to do whatever you want.
Also I apologize for being late with this message. I didn`t realize the date
(21 February) and I really got this mail yesterday. I`m ashemed for it, but
I`m not ashamed for the reason I forwarded this message. I am not against
allowing them to say whatever they want, I don`t have to read it, but I
don`t know that people (most of them kids) read in a music related newsgroup
that white people are better, that thay should kill all jews, black and so
on. I have nothing against a newsgroup called alt.nazis or alt.racists or
alt.white-power or alt.white-power.music, but not music as more important
that their opinion.

Milosz


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:42:46 -0500
From: liles melissa m (mmlile@FACSTAFF.WM.EDU)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins chat


What irc server do you need to log onto?  I checked the news page and
it just said MSN UK which I am unfamiliar with!?
Thanks,
mml


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:19:19 -0500
From: Robert Lasher (toffel@CRIS.COM)
Subject: Re: Schroedinger ate my digital brain


At 04:57 AM 11/27/96 -0500, you wrote:
>if anyone wants the advanced promotional automated alice book let me know
>
Please, if I am responding to the correct party, I would love one.

Robert Lasher

Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:24:49 -0500
From: lee harvey fnordwald (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Schroedinger ate my digital brain


On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Jens Alfke snipped my .sig:

> >Twas bryllyg, and the slythy toves              owilde@umich.edu

and went on to comment:

>         That's "brillig" ... incidentally, Jeff Noon of "Vurt" fame has
>         just come out with a tongue-in-cheek sequel/parody of the
          "Alice" books entitled "Automated Alice" in which Our Heroine
          escapes through the innards of a clock into 1998.

something sortof funny about this bit from lewis carrol's "jabberwocky."
i recently read a paper which was discussing apparent chaos (among other
things), and the observation was made that this seemingly nonsensical
wordplay is actually a highly structured anglo-saxon wordplay, following
rhythmical and spelling patterns from the olde tongue.

the bit in my .sig is excerpted from the standard editon of carrol's
story, which preserves his original spellings. the double-"y" of bryllyg
links up with the double-"y" of slythy, and corresponds with a larger
matrix which runs thru the whole poem. carrol was a mathematician long
before becoming reknown for storytelling, and it is fascinating that where
some people see chaotic mumbo-jumbo, others see pattern and meaning.


****************************************************************************

Twas bryllyg, and the slythy toves              owilde@umich.edu
 Did gyre and gymble in the wabe:               daniel klyn
All mimsy were the borogoves;                   textual exegesisist
 and the mome raths outgrabe.                   wondermonkey cabal

****************************************************************************


Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:48:46 -0700
From: Christopher Hanis (cmhanis@NYX.NYX.NET)
Subject: Belly-Up


All of a sudden there's talk about how unfortunate it is that Belly's
being classified as a one-hit wonder and how they were so much better
than all the watered-down alterna-crap that's saturating the airwaves
nowadays.

I personally think that they're beginning to pay the price for their
short-sighted approach to themselves and their work.

Tonya Donnelly has no one to blame but herself and the Hollywood photo-op
lifestyle that she morphed into with Belly's ascendency to platinum selling
heights.  Does anyone else remember the embarrassing preening video with
Juliana Hatfield and Ethan Hawke?  The toss-off songs cranked out for
every teeny-bopper movie and TV series that would have her?

She wasn't just appropriated by the mainstream, she shamelessly bought
into the whole sorry mess.  She made a load of money and cavorted around
the world in her designer outfits, fiddling while her contemporaries were
buried under the Big Buy-Out.

Well, I don't feel a damn bit sorry for her.  That first record showed
the potential that she had as an artist, but she ended up behaving just
like the people she and Kristin used to rail against in their music.

There's a modern day fable in that story somewhere.

And lest anyone foist that lame "you'd do the same thing if you had the
chance" argument into this, there are plenty of examples that not
everyone does.  Personal integrity is about more than just being
"underground," it's about understanding the moral implications of your
actions and when you're up there on the screen making kissie face with
Hollywood stars and starlets to further the vast empire of vacuous (and
bulimia inducing) corporate entertainment, it's pretty safe to say you
don't give a shit about the people slaving away at shitty jobs so they can
produce their art.

She let "them" use her in *their* own context.  The public face of Tonya
Donnelly is hollow, materialistic and Hollywood.  If she wants the world
to see something else, she'd better get off her ass and start doing some
soul searching.

It's her own business what she does with her life, but don't start this
bullshit about how she's a "real" alternative talent.  That's a fucking
joke!

Signed,
Someone who wants to believe music means more than merchandising.


Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:38:05 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: G1 (plug plug plug)


Just bought me a book:

G1
Subj. contemp. design, graphic
Contr. Various

(that's the title...)

192 PP, 288mm x 232mm
460 ill. 398 col.
ISBN 1-85669-092-X
Printed in UK

(that's the other info on the cover...)

Anyway... It's a very good book about 2D, 3D and 4D graphic design or - as
they write on the cover: "G1 is a collection of contemporary graphic design
like no other. G1 gathers innovative work from many of the world's most
influential graphic designers... and then omits their names from the pages.
G1 presents some of the very best of high design but mixes it with raw
vernacular graphics, the found images that inspire designers. G1 is not a
book for the passive. To find out all that's inside, the reader has to
interact with the book and make it their own."

Anyway... Is v23 in it? Yes, two times. In the 2D part with two pages of
recent Lush sleeves (photographs with lush-logo) and 6 pages in the 4D part
- a complete reproduction of the This Rimy River Limited Edition, so you
can read the poem (not an easy job with the original book).

And that isn't even the best part.


If you're a graphic designer: buy it! (price about $45)



Anyway,

recent records:

-> very dark! His recent live/radio (+ 2 hours) show in Amsterdam was even
greater.
-> strange sleeve

-> Post in remix version: some of the tracks are better than the original...



Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, November 24, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl


NOTE
If you received this message twice... oops... there must have been
something wrong with my mailserver cause I didn't receive any 4AD-L
postings the last few days and the ones I'd send didn't arrive... so this
is a resending... cause I didn't type all these words "voor de kat z'n kut"
( = old dutch for 'nothing' :-).

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:06:43 -0500
From: Elizabeth A Grove (egrove@IC.SUNYSB.EDU)
Subject: old "4AD"


On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Aaron Hill wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-27 01:03:32 EST, you write:
>
> << are there any "old" 4AD people out there anymore? >>
> What does this mean?  I have been into 4ad since early, early 1980s and I
> still love 4ad's stuff (Paladins can go), but most stuff is as good now as
> ever.
>

what I meant was that there have been no discussions/mention of any of
the "old" 4AD bands outside of CTwins.
Not since I joined anyway.

        E


Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:50:14 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: sliding and diving


Alison Lorraine wrote:
>I guess I am just pissed off that the reason why these REAL alternative
>bands aren't doing so well commercially is that there are too many fake
>ones
> ...
>Metallica, Bush, Alice in Chains and the like (heavy metal); I could go
>on and on.  The real deal is bands like the Muses and Belly, the Church,
>Peter Murphy, etc.

The whole term "alternative" has been beaten into the ground and killed
these past five years. It doesn't mean anything anymore. I take your
point but, from my perspective, I don't see a great difference in
'alternative-ness' between Alice In Chains and Peter Murphy. They're both
major-label music for angst-ridden teen mallrats, although the grungeoids
will wear different clothes than the goths. (To see where this ultimately
leads, consider the Barrytown gangs in William Gibson's "Count Zero".)
And frankly I have to confess that there are a couple of Alice In Chains
songs I hear on the radio that are pretty groovy, whereas the last really
good thing Peter Murphy did was "She's In Parties".

What "alternative" really means is "an alternative to the crap they play
on commercial radio". Yesterday's alternative is today's crap. These days
alternative means Flying Saucer Attack, Labradford, Bowery Electric,
Scorn, Bark Psychosis, Underworld...

Curmudgeonly,

__________          ___________________          ________________________
Jens Alfke          Recovering C++ User          jens@apple.com     [work]
                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]

  'Time in the shadow of the wing of the thing too big to see, rising.'
                                            _____________________________
                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:52:31 GMT
From: Paul Spirito (spiritop@WINTHROP.SLIC.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins chat


On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:42:46 -0500, liles melissa m
 wrote:

>What irc server do you need to log onto?  I checked the news page and
>it just said MSN UK which I am unfamiliar with!?

So far as I can tell, you need MSIE 3.0 to participate -- via an
ActiveX chat control.

You can read a transcript afterwards at:

Paul

PS
If you have MSIE 3.0, the chat is at:

You might want to get there early to download the control.


Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:49:42 +0000
From: kevin hankey (kevin@WEBMEDIA.COM)
Subject: Re: alterna-WHAT???


>Stone) as being ONE HIT WONDERS.  It is no wonder that these bands are
>having problems when anyone and EVERYONE is being classified now as
>"alternative"...for instance:

Old man whining.....

Alternative doesn't mean anything anymore though does it? It was originally
for bands
that couldn't (and refused to be) confined within the existing music biz.

In the eighties when bands were creating their own labels and big business
started to
pick up on post-punk angst, & like with punk, they had to get a slice of
it. The 'alternative'
tag is used to appeal to teenies everywhere as dangerous when in fact it's
tame &
sanitized. Kylie Minougue is on an alternative label. Alternative labels
tend to have
major labels plowing money into them.

I know America has a better attitude, (eg. punk didn't sell out over there)
but on this
end of the pond it's pretty bleak, but I'd like to think teendom is getting
more daring
by even thinking they are associated with an 'indie' scene beyond wearing
the right
shirt & not washing their hair. We've got a techno thing happening over
here that's
pretty exciting & quite subversive though.....

Things change anyway. The music press is always stupid and fickle as they
have to
support the new thing because that's their livelihood, if they didn't,
no-one would
read the shitty, biased rags they write for.  To see a band in two years
being built up,
praised to a hysterical level & then rubbished by the press is'nt  uncommon.

Basically at the end of it all, it's the people at the
gig/club/festival/record shop that
count.....never take this kind've journalism seriously. 'Zines tend to
reflect the fan
rather than major mags, take Rolling Stone........ Rebellious seventies mag
turns
into nineties establishment rag.






Regards.
Hankey.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

graphic design
@ Webmedia

Waving flags in space.......

h >  (0181) 840 0182   w >  (0171) 317 1339    f >  (0171) 224 7049



Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:25:40 -0500
From: Quisquose (quisquose@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: wolfgang press


sara johnson wrote:
>
> i was just listening to Cut The Tree on the Lonely is an Eyesore comp. and was
> wondering if the wolfgang press has done any full albums with that sort of
> sound.  and if anyone happens to have a copy of that album for sale please let
> me know.
>
> sara


Sara,

Personally, I think if you're looking for something similar to Cut The
Tree...then your best bet is Standing Up Straight.   Available through
any good store like Tower...  the net (try CDNow! at

~quis


Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:23:43 -0500
From: "Carneiro, Anabela" (bubbles@YESIC.COM)
Subject: Oops, my mistake. Sloan *here*


>Sloan. Their "Twice Removed" album is fantastic but I know
>absolutely nothing about them, never heard or read a thang.
>Yeh, yeh, I know they're not on 4AD but could anyone give
>me any info on albums before or after TR (maybe direct to my
>address). I found them very Pavementish, are they considered
>"low-fi bandwagon jumpers" in the states/europe?
>Thanks,
>cameronw@cidm.wh.su.edu.au

I mistakenly put "Sloan" in the subject of my last message, and I'm very
sorry about that, it was an accident!

You're right, Sloan doesn't fit the "4AD image" but "Anyone Who's Anyone"
from their latest album "One Chord To Another" sounds very Stereolab-ish to
me, and I don't see why people who like The Pale Saints, etc.  wouldn't like
Sloan.  I'll tell you a little about them:  they are from Halifax, Nova
Scotia, and no, they are not considered to be as such; they are literally
Canada's most revered independent band.  Their music is rather difficult to
describe as the band is made up of four distinct songwriters.  There were a
few comparaisons to SY with their first album, "Smeared" (1993) and e.p.
"Peppermint" (1992), but after "Twice Removed", where they did what they
wanted to do, and in effect pissed off Geffen (their former label), that
pretty much died.  "One Chord" was released earlier this year on the band's
own label, murderecords, to much hoopla and Beatles references. Everyone
believed the band was no longer, thanks in large part to rumours spread on
this here electronic media, so we were all pleasantly surprised.  It is an
excellent album, in my humble opinion :)  Apparently it will be released in
the US on Enclave in February (with a bonus CD, you lucky people), and there
will be a single on Flydaddy soon...

I hope this bit of info helps... I'm no insider, just a fan.  If you're
interested, I suggest you check out the Sloan homepage at
www.webgate.net/~maenon/sloan.  :)

Anabela
______________________________________

We were all loud
Maybe on our own, but as united
We're insular, wherein cooler
Things can happen if we stay
                                               -Sloan
_____________________________________


Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:04:44 -0700
From: "Igor V. Boronenkov" (iboronen@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: 4AD-Detox? Aeroplane 12''?


Hi, everybody
could anybody,please, enlighten me on 4AD- Detox label connection? Said to
be dance-oriented offshoot or something..  What's on it? How's the quality
of the stuff?

Bring it here in connection with the recent Aeroplane 12", described by
Parasol as
jungle/dub w/ ethereal vocs. Any comments? I know, I know there's someone
here who snatched the last copy right from in front of my nose!

BTW, if anybody's interested in anything "jungle/dub w/ethereal vocs"
should check out Perfume Tree CD on World Domination- they are quite good.

Boroda

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:34:40 EST
From: Jeremy L Orr (j.orr@JUNO.COM)
Subject: Whatever...


---from alison lorraine:

> I guess I am just pissed off that the reason why these REAL
"alternative" bands
> aren't doing so well commercially is that there are too many fake
ones--examples
> being Fiona Apple (they play her on the "alt" stations around here, but
she is far
> from it), Alannis Morrissette (don't know if I spelled her name right
and really don't
> care--she ain't no alterna-chick, more like just an angry,
harmonica-sucking former
> dance clone), Metallica, Bush, Alice in Chains and the like (heavy
metal); I could
> go on and on.

Well, seeing as how this is at least your third post saying pretty much
the exact same thing (right down to the adjectives), I think you've got
the "going on and on" down pat.

> The real deal alties are bands like the Muses and Belly, the Church,
Peter Murphy,
> etc.  I don't know whose idea it was to repackage just about anybody as
> "alternative" but it sucks hard.

Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but I wouldn't consider Belly to be
any more "alternative" than, say, Bush.  Both are signed to big major
labels, both had considerable success with their *first* American
singles, both are/were MTV darlings...and let's face it: Tanya Donelly is
simply no longer an adventurous songwriter (especially when compared to
Kristin Hersh).  Granted, I haven't heard her new "effort" yet, and if
it's good, I'll be the first to sing its praises...but I've had my gutful
of her since the first time I heard "Not Too Soon".  And Belly is just
more of the same uninteresting and indistinguishable jangly guitar rock
dressed up with a pretty singer that I was sick of years ago.  If we had
just heard Belly without knowing of her past in Throwing Muses, would we
have ever given a shit in the first place?  Not likely.  They'd just be
VH1 darlings instead, sandwiched between Melissa Etheridge, Don Henley,
*shudder* Deep Blue Something, Hootie & the Blowfish, or whatever bland
pleasantries are being shoveled out via AAA radio this week.

I'm as sick of the alternative-ization of the mainstream as anyone else
(not to mention the A-word in general).  But I'm also equally sick of
once-worthwhile artists still being sold as alternative when they clearly
are not.  Once something has been consumed into mainstream culture, IT IS
NO LONGER "ALTERNATIVE" (see also: R.E.M.).

---Jeremy 


Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:43:04 -0800
From: "Gil Gershman (GuerillaG)" (gman2@SPRYNET.COM)
Subject: Re: Main(?)

A64988

> Jeremy L Orr  wrote on Tue, 26 Nov 1996
> (Subject: Main(?))
> > I read the following in the Aug/Sep issue of Magnet, found in a
> > small story about Main:
> >
> > "...the just-issued, U.K.-only _Orr_, credited to [Robert] Hampson,
> > Bruce Gilbert, and Paul Kendall, dates from '90 and offers a sort
> > of missing-link peek at the Hampson timeline."
> >
> > ...to which I say "wow!" So has anyone heard this?

this is NOT a Main record.

it is under the name GILBERT/HAMPSON/KENDALL - ORR, and it's the first re=
lease
from Mute Records' (UK) PARALLEL series. as Andrew mentioned, the second =
release
is the full-length solo debut of Loop/Wire producer, Paul Kendall (Piquet=
... ha
ha).

The G/H/K album does NOT sound like a Main record at all. it's full of th=
e sort
of noise streaks which burn tracks like Medicine's "Aruca" or MBV's "Soft=
 as
Snow" into your mind forever. FINAL (side-project of Justin Broadrick of
Godflesh/Techno Animal/Sidewinder/etc) or, especially, the Broadrick/(And=
y)
Hawkins (from Blind Idiot God) split-cd released on Sub Rosa are _Orr_'s =
closest
antecedants. the order of the day is HEAVILY processed guitar, mostly spl=
intered
into shards of visceral noise. but surprisingly beautiful. nowhere nearly=
 as
minimalist and 'concrete' as Main. it's an excellent album, but be forewa=
rned
that it has some brutally intense moments. otherwise there's no question =
that
it's a 10/10.

BTW, "Orr" is the Hebrew word for "light"
so maybe that's the reason behind the title...

if you want new MAIN material while waiting for _Firmament III_, Sub Rosa=
's
Quantum offshoot have released a pair of limited LIVE recordings featurin=
g
Hampson, Robin Rimbaud (Scanner), and David Shea.
the first (_shea>rimbaud>hampson_, ltd to 2,000). pairs Rimbaud and Shea =
and
Shea and Hampson for two separate - and lengthy - minglings of trademarks.
Rimbaud's public-band frequencies sampled live, Shea's cut-up and painsta=
kingly
detailed musique concrete, and Hampson's careful treated-guitar drone. tw=
o
excellent pieces - especially the unexpectedly lively Shea/Hampson duet.
_scanner>shea>main_ is a second ltd. disc (this one to 1,200), featuring =
three
distinct new performances recorded in Paris in 1995. Scanner's
"beef.clustal.verb.jat scheelan.thrones of hives" incorporates several ti=
tles
from his excellent _Accretions_ (Staalplaat), Shea's is a live 13 minute =
sample
of his legendary _Alphaville_ (Jean-Luc Goddard) reconstruction. Main's "=
Live
Firmament" is just what the title suggests, 37.02(!) minutes of improvise=
d and
instinctual slow, dark, creeping Hampson ambience.

for yet more new(ish) Main, try:

Folds and Rhizomes for Gilles Deleuze (Sub Rosa /Utopian Diaries)
 MAIN - Occlusion (12>00)

nobody can complain about Hampson not being prolific. if that's STILL not=
 enough
Main for ya, try some Thomas K=F6ner. (c:

GuerillaG2-G4
Silvania - Delay Tambor. Seefeel + Locust + Autechre + Scorn + Silvania =3D=
 WOW!




GuerillaG2-G4

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:14:07 -0500
From: Creig Jacobson (CreigJ@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD-Detox? Aeroplane 12''?


the Aeroplane CD/12" is the 3rd release on Detox...the first 2 I believe were
Touchan and Stellar (haven't heard them yet)

Aeroplane's "Signs of Life" contains 4 mixes of the titled track and feature
vocals by Heidi Berry, who shares writing credits.
It's neat hearing Heidi in this genre...it works for her.  Check it out if
you have the opportunity.

For those who are interested, the catalogue #s are apparently running
according to year and # of release.  Being the 3rd release on Detox this
year, Aeroplane received DTX 9603 as it's identity.
CJ


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 11-27-1996