4ad-l Mail for 10-16-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: ACHTUNG! NOT LISTY was No More Canadian Shit
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:23:33 -0700
From: "BOYD, BRETTON" (BOYDB@CSMC.EDU)
Subject: key: TMC, DCD, AP, PSB
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:58:41 CET
From: Adam Olszewski (ADAMRADV@PLEARN.EDU.PL)
Subject: Rainbirds
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:45:51 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Re: B. Capps Auction #3
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:33:07 -0700
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Re: URLs in 4AD-L archives
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:36:53 -0400
From: Erikas Aras Napjus (erikas+@CMU.EDU)
Subject: Re: No More Canadian Shit
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:24:02 EDT
From: srchandler@JUNO.COM
Subject: 4ad JP release update
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:41:22 +0900
From: Masaya Toyokawa (gtr0393@ASK.OR.JP)
Subject: Re: ACHTUNG! NOT LISTY was No More Canadian Shit
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:35:24 -0400
From: "gerald r. fnord" (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Stereolab on compilation
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:56:40 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: NONLISTY: Kula website
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:32:07 EDT
From: "Steven Hipkiss." (sah577@VMS1.BHAM.AC.UK)
Subject: Fotze-Politics was No More Fucking Non-Listy Country Bashing
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 04:35:26 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: Re: 1982
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:03:55 -0700
From: Michael Buck (mbuck@NETCOM.COM)

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:23:33 -0700
From: "BOYD, BRETTON" (BOYDB@CSMC.EDU)
Subject: Re: ACHTUNG! NOT LISTY was No More Canadian Shit


Phew! after that erudite cat fight, I'm gun-shy to ask about "what
Shannon Lucid."

Could someone tell me without an altitudinous echo of condescension or a
blistering blast of brow-beating for my want of this factoid?

Thanks,
Brett

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:58:41 CET
From: Adam Olszewski (ADAMRADV@PLEARN.EDU.PL)
Subject: key: TMC, DCD, AP, PSB


hello thislisiters,

i invite everyone with a spare moment to visit my WWW site at


and particularly to listen to the piece of music i put there. you can have it
full as 1 MB file or a cheesy mono 10 s preview. this is the first recording
i have made and i'd be deeply grateful for any opinions people from THIS list
might have about it (e-mail me!)

much of the stuff on the pages is in polish but i included english versions
of the most important things. look out for surprise links!


adam olszewski


Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:45:51 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Rainbirds


I first heard of the Rainbirds in '88 when their self-titled album came
out on Phonogram.  This is the album (834 023-1/2/4) which features "7
Compartments" as well as the catchy "Blueprint" and "Fireworks (I Don't
Wanna Miss That)".  I first baught the vinyl and then when I saw the
album actually was released on CD in the US by PolyGram, I picked it up
right away.  After reading some blurbs in NME and MM about a follow-up
album called "Call Me Easy Say I'm Strong Love My Way It Ain't Wrong"
(also on Phonogram, 838 176-1/2/4, but not out in the US sadly) I eagerly
looked forward to it.  But sadly, it was released under a flurry of zero
fanfare and I couldn't find it anywhere.  Then one day this past spring,
I walked into a local import shop and what did I find in the bargain bin
for $5.99 each?  The aforementioned "Call Me Easy" CD (with bonus tracks)
and their 1991 (last?!?) album called "Two Faces" (848 554-1/2/4), again
also on Phonogram.  The same store had a CD single for the song "Two
Faces" but all the tracks on the single can be found on the album so I
didn't buy it despite a nice inlay sheet pic.  I was looking around on
the net for some English language info on the band as to their status but
have yet to find anything.  Are they still around??  Did singer/lead
Rainbird Katharina Franck do the solo route or did the whole band go back
to day jobs??  I really liked the first album from '88 and the other two
are OK but don't have the charm of the debut.  Anyone with further
details about this overlooked band?

Jeff Keibel
Scarborough, ON
CANADA
redshift@interlog.com

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:33:07 -0700
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Re: B. Capps Auction #3


Brandon,

How are you?  I haven't talked to you in a while...

How's Sara, the baby, the band, etc?

OK...I want a couple of these...let me know if you still have any of these.
And don't freak if you don't hear from me for a couple of weeks, as I'm out
with RHP, this just happens to be my ONE day in SF, but I'll be back around
the 1st.


>LONG FIN KILLIE :  "Houdini"  CD  (American/US)  stamped promo
>HIS NAME IS ALIVE:  "Early Works 1985-1989" Cass  (Subterranean/US)
>HIS NAME IS ALIVE:  "Love Can't Buy Happiness"  Cass  (Subtarreanean/US)
>        pre-Ivo/Fryer mixes  w/ lots of unreleased material


oops...I just noticed this part (below), so is there any of this left?  I'm
not too worried about the HNIA stuff, as I can (possibly) get them from
Warren, but the Swell  record is what I'm really really interested in.  the
other stuff I can probably find elsewhere pretty easily.

let me know about this 'stuff' and how things are going to you.




>MORE AUCTION SPECIFICS:
>Item will be awarded to the person holding the highest bid as of 11:59pm
>PST  on  Sunday Oct. 13th.  There are no limits on bidding frequency or
>quanities. Winning bidder will be   responsible for shipping charges
>which will be calculated at the end of the auction.  All winning bids
>must be paid in cash, money order, or personal check (sorry no trades...).


take care...

rick

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:36:53 -0400
From: Erikas Aras Napjus (erikas+@CMU.EDU)
Subject: Re: URLs in 4AD-L archives


Excerpts from internet.listserv.4ad-l: 15-Oct-96 URLs in 4AD-L archives
by Christopher Hanis@NYX.NY
> I've been following 4AD-L on the www.evo.org archives, as it's easier for
> me than being subscribed now, and i've noticed that the machine strips
> out some things, particularly any URL starting at the beginning of a
> line.  It's probably some quirk with the way the server handles the text,
> but it's causing me to miss a lot of URL references.

Ah, my *experimental* archive.

It's actually still working? Wow.

Last I knew, it had a bad habit of confusing dates on certain months of
certain years and would append them to other years and dates. I'm also
not too pleased with the overall formatting. It doesn't surprise me in
the least that the URLs get messed up, though, given the (ummm) ugly
parsing engine for getting the headers in reasonable shape.

I'll be interested in hearing the results. If anyone wants to play with
the source code, I can make it available. I probably won't be able to
fix until I get my head above water, though.

--- Erikas


Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:24:02 EDT
From: srchandler@JUNO.COM
Subject: Re: No More Canadian Shit


I know i am wayyyyyy off topic, but i think being on this mailing list
has been binding up my email, so can anyone tell me the address i need to
send my cancellation to??  Thank you so much.
As for the Canadian subject......  i think it is way to much white meat
for me!!!   Totally just kidding.  I do agree generalizations suck,
because any given subject has something good to offer so to generalize
you totally overlook good things as well as bad things that have been
ignored.
Thank you for the address if you can send it to me,

Love,
Jaime


Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:41:22 +0900
From: Masaya Toyokawa (gtr0393@ASK.OR.JP)
Subject: 4ad JP release update


Released

Dead Can Dance : Spirit Chaser : COCY-80370 : 960921 : 2500 yen : 8 tracks

Upcoming

Heidi Berry : Miracle : COCY-80369 : 961019 : 2500 yen
Lisa Germano : Except From A Love Circus : COCY-80371 : 961019 : 2500 yen

non-4AD

These Virginia Astley's cds are still available.

Hope In A Darkened Heart : WMC5-567 : WEA Japan : 2400 yen
>From Gardens Where We Feel Secure/Sanctus/Melt The Snow : CY-4457 :
Columbia Japan : 2600
All Shall Be Well : COCY-9691 : Columbia Japan : 2800
Had I The Heavens : COCY-80070 : Columbia Japan : 2800

Out of print:
Promise Nothing : COCY-75332 : Columbia Japan

---
Masaya Toyokawa
190-25 Nansei,Mie, 516-01 Japan
gtr0393@ask.or.jp


Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:35:24 -0400
From: "gerald r. fnord" (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: ACHTUNG! NOT LISTY was No More Canadian Shit


On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, BOYD, BRETTON wrote:

> Phew! after that erudite cat fight, I'm gun-shy to ask about "what
> Shannon Lucid."
>
> Could someone tell me without an altitudinous echo of condescension or a
> blistering blast of brow-beating for my want of this factoid?
>

        she is the american astronaut who just got back from
        a really really really long stay in outer space.

        well, maybe not _outer_ space... she was in the
        russian space station 'mir'. longest away from earth
        by any american.  i forget exactly how long.

        dont be shy, i'm mostly harmless



****************************************************************************
          I'm totally in support of free access to the net,
          all I'm trying to say in that song is 'please don't
          try and tell me it's the same as going to another
          planet.' Because, if we had the choice between sitting
          down all day and cruising the net or doing what Shannon
          Lucid did, for me it's no contest."  --Billy Bragg


Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:56:40 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Stereolab on compilation


I just picked up the Red Hot + Rio comp yesterday, and just want to say,
though its non-listy its fabulous. The Stereolab track is a lot of fun.
The EBTG track is beautifully sensuous even though I have no idea what
she's saying... the other tracks are all great
atmospheric/moody/slippery gems (i can even over look the presence of
the omnipresent do-gooder Sting) all in all its a wonderful
sampling to diversify my collection.

By the way, Jens and others looking for a used copy (no this isnt a
personal attack) - c'mon its for a good cause!
Consider the extra $3 for buying it new a contribution to AIDS
relief/research.

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:32:07 EDT
From: "Steven Hipkiss." (sah577@VMS1.BHAM.AC.UK)
Subject: NONLISTY: Kula website


  Apologies to all, but for the person asking for Kula info
the unofficial website is found at
www.anderson-lembke.co.uk/kula

Steve.

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 04:35:26 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: Fotze-Politics was No More Fucking Non-Listy Country Bashing

              Canadian Shit......FUCK OFFFF !!!!!!! (with even some 4ad
              contents ! )

> > everything "Corporate"
> =

> your computer. that stack of 4ad product over by your
> stereo...
> =


   My computer is a Mac, and I think there is place for
   many brands of computers. I'm for a decentralized
   technology market. As for internet tools, it is
   preferable that we all use the same application
   (or meaby I'm wrong), and that I think is delicate,
   but if at least they are all downloadable for free..
   If you had invented the wheel, would you have made a
   bunch in order to sell them or tell the others exactly
   how you came up to the fabrication of that precise wheel
   and how they can build some on their own ? =

   Is it Plato who warned us about such issues ?

   4ad Corporate : yeah, some of their last few marketing
   strategies (2 part singles, etc...) are shames, as much
   as are the nice promos (not accessible to their fans,
   in theory : they should make better limited editions instead).
   But I buy the UK releases only, where you can still manage to
   trust the "independancy" of a label that is still taking risks, I
   believe, even in the irony of signing such acts as The Paladins.



> uhhhhh....what? i think that any 7th grader would grant
> you that americanism is synonomous with fascism, but
> "communism?"

   Fascism is imposed by a government. You have no choice.
   Communism starts as an ideal : a few people try to make
   believe that they know the solution to all the others' problems.
   When those people finally realized it was a wrong idea in the =

=A0=A0=A0first place, it is too late.The system now becomes alike fascism.
   Fascism is very direct. Communism and Capitalism are, from
   my point of view, more subtle as "manipulations". You don't
   see it coming as evidently. Whatever I'm trying to say.....

=2E many individuals,
> especially in open societies such as canada can choose
> non-participation.

  In USA too, it's a question of having a little sense
  of criticism. But that's marginality and that ain't
  what most people want to hear. This topic is about
  something people will realize only in a hundred year or so.
  The situation is not that urgent right now.
  But..........
 =

 but you cant have that computer,
> or that stack of 4ad products, or that stereo without
> paying a price. =


 Technology is a "system no one can escape".
 You can have a stereo, the best ones are made from little firms
 only specialist know about. But we don't need a war between
 2-3 big ego firms trying to control a world's market.
 I never understood, for example, whose brilliant idea =

 it was to mark the symbol "disc compact" on all cd in
 the beginning of its market ? I imported cd's from many
 countries and they all beared that fucking mark....
 gee... I must be that lady-hitchiker in the movie "5 easy pieces"..


> which leaves you, cedric, personally responsible for
> the thing that you rail against.
>

 That's what it is about : We are all responsible.
 We don't have to feel guilty about it. Just to
 consider these issues and pay a little criticism in
 our consuming behaviors. A gesture.... A prayer... Anything....


> =

> > Condescencion. Really... My point was : this whole world
> > (orient and occident) is becoming "Americanist",

> =

> in addition to the various political entities actively
> and successfully resisting americanism, there are
> untold numbers of individuals, many within the borders
> of the most industrialized countries on the planet,
> who actively and successfully resist americanism.
>
   They are not strong enough : in USA, Vermont is the only
   state who had success unauthorizing any projects of
   Walmart's implantation. These are now everywhere and they
   continue to kill local independant shops and stores.
   And don't use the term "americanism", I hate it.
   If we start to confuse "the shit in America" with all that
   is "american", we're far from being near to understand each
   other and to finish this discussion...
   When I said "Americanist", I mentionned that I didn't trust
   "some of the patterns", not the fact that "they" admired America
    in its whole. They just don't have access to the real richness
    of America....
 =

> but amongst those who choose and champion this way of living,
> i think that you'll find that those who share your (cedric)
> all-or-nothing view of what is and what is not "communist
> corporate americanism" are either (as mentioned in a
> previous post) eating berries and living in trees, or
> living in rustic cabins in montana and blowing up
> college professors.
>
   Hmmm.... you shouldn't judge people like this.
   A lot of people live in "rustic cabins" in some
   countries poorer than yours, and you might have
   better to learn from their lifestyle than you seem to think.
   Oh... and I'm against "all-or-nothing" corporations, that is
   true, but I'm too much of a sentimentalist to waste my mind
   on political or intellectual extremism.
   I'm a 4ad fan, I have my deal of "cliches".....   =



> I wish US democracy
> > to a certain extent to every country in the world,
> > but not its "econocracy".
> =

> the two are one. wherever you find a US sponsored
> 'democracy' you find corporate muscle on one side
> of the street, and a goon squad on the other (cia,
> nsa, contras, and other freedom fighters ).
> but the fact that you can imagine otherwise indicates
> (to me) the half-bakedness of your diatribe.

  I said "to a certain extent" : I meant the ideal of it.
  Corruption and Mafia is a hell of another topic.... =

  well....it's a way of saying it.....

> =

> > Americans about this : they use the term "present-mindness"
> > to define what we are to fear about the USA evergrowing
> > influence on all "lifestyles". The oxymoron to
> > describe the idea would be "american future". There is no
> > evidence of a sense of "consequence". It's all "space"
> =

> oh, most certainly. what suprises me, however, is how
> thousand-years-old countries--with rich cultural and ethnic
> memories and fierce nationalism--seem to fall over themselves
> in their eagerness to emulate the american lifestyle and
> mindset (present-mindedness). my own theory is that they
> are simply being seduced. it happens to the best of us.
> seduced by the promise of an escape from misery through
> buying things. this is the absolute basis of americanism.
> our tragic flaw as humans is that we are lazy, and will
> substitute spirit for easy comforts. home theater and a t-1
> connection to the 'net.

  Consumerism is an occidental thing, started since the first
  industrial Revolution, it is not designed by the word
  "americanism". America grew up in circumstances that led
   many opportunities to expand technological progress, a thing
   linked to economy (a vicious circle starts here). America
   became the new World empire, as there always been one.
   It is normal that people let themselves seduced by such a
   promiss as brought by technological development (linked to
   money) that permitted America its dream of Liberty, Progress and
   Youth. "Americanism" is term that lies somewhere in there. =

   Hollywood, for example, were great at the beginning.
   It was fresh and even "avant-garde" in its own sort
   of tragic way. The best cineast in the World went there.
   There were Wars, etc... Europa lost much, America had all
   the opportunity to expand its "kingdom". The real problem
   starts with abusement : Hollywood insisting that cinemas
   only present their stuff. Selling things at low prices
   because "we have enough and so we could control the market".
   You see where I'm getting ? Greeks wanted to impose their
   philosophy, culture, and way of seeing life in general.
   They helped Occident to develop, for they had an advance
   on knowledge. America was about economy, making it big.
   "I won't show you how we make good movies unless you come
    and work for my company" sort of thing. It's not
    that bad of a conception in itself, if only the
    company is not too much into a power trip, only interested
    in its own belly. Hollywood was also Hell to independant
    cineasts in the USA, so its not "USA bad for all the others",
    It's "certain things in USA bad for themselves and others".
  =

    Everyone has the right to be lazy : THIS WORLD WANTS TO DO IT
    TOO FAST. But don't fuck with my entertainment, Joe.  =

    Seduction ?..... I know guys that are expert at seducing
    their peers in order to get a good fuck.
    "It's not the seduction the problem, it's the fuck"

> =

> > So It is natural for me to respond to such
> > conceptions when I feel it to be unpurposed.
> > That was the reason of my "flame".
> > I hope some people got that.
> =

> i struggle with these concerns daily, and i dont mean
> to change your mind. i do hope, however, that the
> all-or-nothing attitude you seem to have will withstand
> some constructive criticism. i myself have been ravished
> by the seduction of 'things'. records, speakers, computer
> equipment, the house, the car, the furnature....
> and i try to do what i can to help. do what i can to
> make this society even a fraction more humane than it is.
> but i cannot get up on a soapbox and accuse anyone of
> americanism without first accusing myself. i am responsible
> for it.
>

   Victim-Responsible... : that's what they say to girls being
   raped when they go to court. There is responsible and
   responsible. Guiltyness leads to nothing.
   We can't change the world, my dear. But the fact that the
   discussion we are having here will have little impact is all
   what it is about.



> and until we can all get together, turn off the computers,
> quit buying, quit working like slaves, quit allowing magical
> green tickets to rule our lives, we _all_ have to accept
> the blame for what we've got.
>

   Well.... that's an extreme way of proposing it....
   I could live up with a little bourgeois-anarchist punk band, =

   like in the good old days ..... : - )

****************************************************************
> I'm totally in support of free access to the net,


 Me too !


 (edri( : Nope.... I'm not an alterno-intello.......
          Yep...... I could be the wrongest of guys.....

  =

"Is there any 4ad politically enclined band ?"

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:03:55 -0700
From: Michael Buck (mbuck@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: 1982


On Sat, 12 Oct 1996, Dez wrote:

> Belatedly, but due to popular demand (I kid not), here's my rundown on '82. Fo

> those who may not have seen the first part, this is a response to a question -
> not just me showing off!

Thanks for indulging me. :)

> BAD203 Tones on Tail (12"). One of those dreadful Bauhaus spin-offs. No
> redeeming features at all. Deleted, and long may it rot.

No redeeming features?  WHat about the fact that you can play it at more
than one speed and it still sounds just as bad? :)  Actually, I have
rather a fondness for the piece called "Instrumental" at the end, but
that's probably just me...

> ...and b), I don't want to provoke flame-armageddon, because I reckon that
> between the end of the Birthday Party and the coming of the Muses, 4AD
> wallowed in ethereal self-parody.

But, *Gawd*, wasn't it fun for us depressoids at the time? :-)

> Colourbox aside, the label got bogged down in proto-goth and directionless
> cod-ambient rock

cod-ambient?  what mean cod-ambient?

Michael Buck
mbuck@netcom.com


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 10-16-1996