Subject: robert smith's outfit
Subject: Re: Listy questions
Subject: Re: Tim Friese-Green (this listy) - my two cents
Subject: Bedhead/Beheaded review
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Subject: Re: SYMPTOMATIC 4AD BULLSHWAG
Subject: Re: HNIA release party w/Jenny Toomey and the Whale
Subject: "500 (Shake Baby Shake)"
Subject: Re: Chimera
Subject: Bay Area Shows: Tarnation/Bedhead, Lush
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance
Subject: Re: DCD - ISTANBUL NOT CANCELLED
Subject: Misc: AAACK!!!
Subject: Re: Lushness
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: HNIA at Maxwells Aug 22
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Re: where get 4AD t-shirtrs and posters?
Subject: Re: Lush singles
Subject: Re: where get 4AD t-shirtrs and posters?
Subject: Annie 'n' Renaissance
Subject: Re: Love Spirals Downwards in San Fran
Subject: Cocteau Violaine singles
Subject: HNIA and more
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Subject: Re: Love Spirals Downwards in San Fran
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Re: Lush singles
Subject: DCD *pout*
Subject: Re: Chimera
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Stars on E.S.P. (review)
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Re: Annie 'n' Renaissance
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Re: class action lawsuits and whatnot...
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Subject: DCD in Philly...
Subject: damn, 4ad-l disaster
Subject: DCD Dallas Tix and what about the shirts
Subject: HNIA, Shelleyan Orphan, TMC, Tricky
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Subject: Re: HNIA release party w/Jenny Toomey and the Whale
Subject: harold budd/hector zazou
Subject: Re: HNIA, Shelleyan Orphan, TMC, Tricky
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance
Subject: Re: HNIA, Shelleyan Orphan, TMC, Tricky
Subject: Speaking of Bark Psychosis
Subject: Re: Ooops...
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:48:17 -0700
Did anyone by chance catch the cure on Letterman a few days ago? What's up
with
robert wearing that humungous Chicago Bulls shirt?? I think his motive
was to simply do the opposite of what people expect....
Thoughts?
And you're right, Emiel, they did kinda stink...
_B
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:36:28 -0400
Barry A. Mathews wrote:
>
> I'm writing the group to beg the answers to a couple of thislisty questions:
>
> 1) What is the 11th track on the US version of the Scheer album? Is it an
> acoustic of another track? A b-side?
>
> 2) Can anyone give me the track listings on Lush's last 2 singles?
>
> Thank you!
The 11th track on the US version of the Scheer album is the acoustic version of
Demon".
It also appears as a b-side on the "Shea" E.P.
daniel
[email protected]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:36:47 -0500
>Frank Brinkhuis wrote re. Tim Friese-Green:
>>Talk Talk and Thomas Dolby, to mention a few.
>
>Yes, and since it's been at least three weeks since I plugged Talk Talk's
>last album "Laughing Stock" in this august forum that means it must be
>time to do so again. Sparse, echoey, jazzy, almost falling asleep in
>spots but coming to with sudden bursts of noise. This is a very beautiful
>and uncategorizable album that everyone should own -- especially anyone
>who even slightly enjoyed Bark Psychosis' "Hex" or Slowdive's "Pygmalion"
>(or the Catherine Wheel song "Ferment" on the album of the same name,
>which has a very distinct Talk Talk sound to it.)
>
Yeah, I like it alot too!! Very trancendental.
Heather
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:28:07 +0000
I thought I'd do a review of the latest album by my favorite band, Bedhead.
I realize Bedhead are on Trance Syndicate, not 4AD, but I believe they are
thislisty. After all, I first read about Bedhead on 4AD-L.
Anyway, the new album is called "Beheaded" (not bedheaded as i first thought,
which would have sounded rather stupid, or just bedhead like the little
sticker underneath the packaging says). If you're not familiar with Bedhead,
they are totally amazing, using three guitars very tastefully (no noticeable
effects, really), as well as drums and bass (of course). Lyrics are usually
whispered or mumbled, but I can usually understand the words. Basically,
though it is very difficult to totally describe Bedhead. They are not slow
in a Codeine way, but they're not exactaly peppy like Bunnygrunt, either.
It's really difficult to tell the difference between the three guitarist.
All the sounds seem to somehow meld together. They are quite unique,
really.
"Beheaded" is a very appropriated name for this album, in my opinion.
Listening to it, there seems to be a vaguely mysterious feeling throughout,
and somehow, it all ties in with the name. Maybe that doesn't make sense, but
that's part of what draws me to Bedhead. I think every listener interprets the
music in a different way. It was also nice to hear "The Rest of the Day" on
this album, which was the A side for Bedhead's 2nd single, and one of my
favorite songs. Two of the best songs on the album are "Left Behind" and
"What's Missing." Still, it's more of a concrete album and less of a
collection
of singles.
Overall, I think "Beheaded" takes a few listens to really start to enjoy,
but I now place it about "whatfunlifewas", their first LP. It is truely
a step forward, unlike a lot of albums I've heard lately by various artists.
I also was lucky enough to see Bedhead live in Minneapolis last Saturday.
They were quite good, even though some shitheads were talking LOUDLY thoughout
much of the show. What's the point of going to a show if you're just going
to ignore the music? At various points during the show I found myself wishing
for Mark K. from RHP to appear and say some nasty words to those rude people.
tony
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:07:00 GMT
PISS OFF!!!!!
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Date: 10/07/96 16:41
Wow! Things are going well for you. (You should take a better job if those
other folks are weasling on you...trust me, it only took me 3 years to realize
this ;) )
Gina is doing great. She is coming with me. I'll tell her you said "hello".
BTW, the version we are using of AppleShare Client Windows is 1.0.2.
Take care, I'll give you my new email just as soon as I know it myself. :)
marvyn
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:21:25 -0700
I missed the original post, but it's obvious what it's about, but..
Rich Holtzman
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:31:21 -0500
>well folks, here's how it went....
>After all was said and done, I had a chance to talk to Warren at length about
>some things. He mentioned that Ian Masters did in fact appear with hnia at
>the UK dates and that Spoonfed Hybrid was putting out a 5(approx) song ep on
>CD soon of b-sides and unreleased stuff -- something to look for. ESP-Family
>may be putting out a CD soon....
hey blue----
was there any mention of a domestic release of ESP summer??? I thought at
one time that Perdition was going to release it. I never picked up the
french import. Is it still available?
John
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"you're so boring boring boring / always tape machine recording
you're so boring boring boring / and you've heard all this before"
-Dead Kennedys
john b. jones [email protected]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:04:54 -0700
Joseph Burns wrote:
>So when's this "500" single(s) coming out then?
The new LUSH ep's come out in the UK on Monday, July 15. 4AD really
should do a B-sides collection... This is getting out of hand!!!
Jeff Keibel
Toronto, ON
CANADA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:38:15 -0400
chimera released an import-only full length lp on flute records in 1993
called "lughnasa" and is brilliant. a cross between elizabeth fraser's
unintelligible vocals and my bloody valentine's guitar noise. the "day star
ep", to me, is not really representative of chimera as well as their new
domestic lp on grass records, "earth loop"...their old stuff was way better.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 02:02:01 -0700
Hello All,
Fri 7/12:
Tarnation opens for Bedhead at the Bottom of the Hill. I've never
heard of Bedhead, but the SF Weekly says this:
------------------------------------
A five piece band from Dallas with three guitars? Sounds really
obnoxious, but you'd be suprised. While on previous recordings the quirky
moniker conjured images of a mussed, static-ridden scalp, this is the first
time in the group's history that the name seemed really fitting. The songs
on "Beheaded" (Trance Syndicate) are warm, intimate, and sleepy - almost
vulnerable. It's like waking up very slowly on a foggy morning with someone
you care about who knows you have morning breath, but dosn't mind. The moody
bill is rounded off with Tarnation and Stars of the Symphony Orchestra
opening, Bottom of the Hill, 10 pm $6.
--------------------------------------
I was going to ask for more info, but while I was pecking that thing out,
Ms. Eudora dumped a.e. nelson's Bedhead review right in my lap.
Coincidence?... You be the judge.
Good karma not withstanding, Lush are scheduled to play The Edge in Palo
Alto 9/6/96. Is this a Tour? (Not that I should care because the Edge is
about 100 feet from where I work)
Regarding interband love; Harriot and David from the Sundays, and what about
Michael Gira and Jarboe from the Swans or was that just my imagination?
Thank You,
-Paul
-ask me about my grandchildren-
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:53:25 +0200
>> 11)for some reason, every CT fan i know is also into CT,
>> and vice-a-versa
of course, this is tautological...
ok, I know what you meant, just want to say that I am heavily "into" DCD
(sorry, english is not my language, hope to have catched correctly) but I am
not so a big fan of CT.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:53:19 +0200
At 07:47 08/07/96 +0400, you wrote:
>I have the privilege to announce that the July 4th Istanbul date of
>DCD was NOT CANCELLED! Lisa was not sick, but quite in form actually.
it's the fine air of mediterranean sea. if they stopped in Rome, too, it
would have been even better...
can you tell me if merchandise was for sale and what kind of items (cds,
t-shirts, poster...)?
just to know what I'm loosing...
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:47:26 -0400
About Anne Rice Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:40:33 -0400
there is a bside collection from the Split era called "Cookie" but its a
Japanese import and kinda pricey.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:38:04 -0400
i got one thing to say: Rubbish! u see, why would u constantly pay anything
more than $9.99 for a cd? and even this is too much, but c'mon!
i go to The Wiz, Tower, Virgin, Coconuts, and i see the very same cd from
$12.99 to $16.99. yeah, sure. then i go to another store, and i
see the cd for $9.99 (brand new, not a free promo). what the heck?
it is simply, unless it is an import or something that my $9.99 can
not order for me, i simply don't buy at those rip-off stores. ;P
now, i had heard the same thing about the lawsuit on CNN (check their web
page. i am sure they might have some info on it), and the reporter
only mentioned that if the law suit goes all the way, the prices might
be reduced big time. and it applies to tapes as well, u know! i
think that it is much cheaper to produce a tape than a cd, so by no
means u can have a cd for $5.99, and a tape for $7.99..
only my two pences;
JHR
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:07:34 -0700
I'm pretty sure of that date. Check maxwell's (hoboken) for exacting
details. Best venue in the land...
Alex
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:09:51 EDT
--- JHR wrote:
think that it is much cheaper to produce a tape than a cd, so by no
means u can have a cd for $5.99, and a tape for $7.99..
--- end of quoted material ---
When I worked for Musicland/Sam Goody's (yuck!), someone in the industry told
me that it is actually much cheaper to produce cd's. I have no idea of the
validity of my source, but I know I have heard this more than once.
Barry
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 23:22:51 +0900
At 5:28 PM 96.7.10 +0000, Arthur Rosene wrote:
>where can i get 4AD t-shirts and posteres?
Haven't you never bought UK version of 4AD CD ?
It always contain 4AD Mail Order address in these days.
I always get items from Mail Order.
Send 3.50 Pounds Sterling (if you are in US) to them and get the catalogue
first of all.
4AD, P.O. Box 3813
London SW18 1XE
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:25:57 EDT
Can anyone tell me the track listing for the 2nd Single Girl single? Please???
Thank you,
Barry
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:06:37 +0200
>>where can i get 4AD t-shirts and posters?
>
>I always get items from Mail Order.
Yeah, but... the Mail Order dept. doesn't sell a lot of T-Shirts and
posters. Only the second v23 posterset (if it's still available) and some
4AD/v23-logo-shirts, no recent items. If you're looking for
tour-shirts/posters/books you should visit the concerts (if they're not
cancelled).
Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, July 11, 1996
... [email protected]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:29:47 -0700
> Just a general question to all... Anybody out there fans of
> Renaissance (and Annie Haslam)?
Yes! Once in a while I make a reference to them, and nobody ever
comments on it. All their material sounds quite dated, and I think
they usually get dismissed as just another 70's art/prog/pop band.
She's got a marvelous voice though, and I'm really into their
later stuff like Azure d'Or, Song For All Seasons and Camera Camera.
Their older stuff like Ashes Are Burning and Turn Of The Cards
is far too 'pretentious rock epic' for me. And I didn;t really think too
much of Annie's solo album either. Any idea what she's up to
these days?
| Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567 | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:19:22 PST
Does anyone know if LSD has a new album in the works? It's been, what, two
years since Ardor?
Martin
[email protected]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:15:52 -0400
I just got my Cocteau Twins Violaine singles from IGG, so they should be
available at other US import outlets now or very soon.
I'm unfortunately at work, so I can only look at their purple and green
covers for the next few hours.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:37:21 ES
Thanks go out again to all the people who suggested HNIA. I picked up Stars on
ESP yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it! I reminded me of Luna, Cowboy
Junkies, and a little Insides thrown in. The music varies in style nicely
between each track.
By the way...I have tix for DCD tonight in DC. Does anyone know if they are
planning to cancel the show? I haven't heard anything and the phone at the
Warner Theatre just rings and rings and rings...
Marc
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:55:31 -0400
>
> When I worked for Musicland/Sam Goody's (yuck!), someone in the industry told
> me that it is actually much cheaper to produce cd's. I have no idea of the
> validity of my source, but I know I have heard this more than once.
It is true. If you look at all the CD-ROMs being given away for free
(catalogs, America Online etc) you get an idea of how cheap CD-media is to
produce. The disc itself (not including packaging) is less than $1 to
manufacture.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:53:39 -0700
mark wrote:
>one crucial issue in this comparison of musical styles is sociocultural.
>classsical composers such as bach didn't have a legion of fans whose
>lives depended in large part upon his next opus.
I have to disagree in the case of opera, in which case the music was
presented as part of a popular spectacle. "Amadeus" may be an
exaggeration, but opera composers were the closest equivalent to today's
pop stars.
>i would like to suggest that one way of moving forward is not through
>adopting a new sound (which in a technological sense has probably become
>easier than ever) but through challenging the musical hegemony in a new
>way.
I agree. By "new sound" I meant not only the literal meaning but also any
radical change in style. And such things did happen before the 20th
century -- until the late Medieval period, changes in key (in European
music) were explicitly forbidden by the Church. The first pieces that did
so were probably considered as radical then as, say, "In C" was 30 years
ago.
>another challenge (and one more pertinent here) is the notion of singing
>songs whose words are consistently unintelligible. this seems to have
>been largely a creation of mid80s pop music
I can trace this back at least as far as Hugo Ball's nonsense poetry of
circa 1916, which was I believe performed to a musical backing. (See
Greil Marcus' "Lipstick Traces".) The best known of these is "I Zimbra",
which the Talking Heads used as lyrics to a song on their 1980 album
"Fear Of Music".
Another obvious example is scat singing, which I believe dates back to
the '30s.
__________ ___________________ ________________________
Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator [email protected] [work]
[email protected] [play]
"Nothing but terrifying blue columns. Bangs! Silences." (Louis Andriessen)
_____________________________
http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 12:00:03 -0700
On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, Martin A. HOYT wrote:
> Does anyone know if LSD has a new album in the works? It's been, what, two
> years since Ardor?
Yep. It's due out shortly! AP says August, we'll see. I'm eager to hear
it. Preliminary word from the Projekt list is that it's a bit more of a
departure from their previous albums.
-cz
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:54:17 -0500
> When I worked for Musicland/Sam Goody's (yuck!), someone in the industry
> told me that it is actually much cheaper to produce cd's.
It is cheaper. A helluva lot cheaper. We burn CD-ROMs here and send off for
batches of 400 at a time and the damn labels on the things cost more to print
than the CDs themselves cost!! At a run of 400, our cost-per-CD is like
$2.00. (And this is nowhere NEAR the volume of a big-time record company.)
The quality is better, they last longer..it's cooler technology, so everyone
just assumes that they should be paying more for them than tapes or albums.
If CDs cost so goddamn much to make (according to the record industy) then how
come I can buy a ten-pack of CD-ROMs shareware at the local computer store for
$15.00??????
CD sales are basically intellectual property; not the media itself. You're
paying Kelly Deal or (god forbid!) Warren DeFever ;) and all the people
between you and them (Best Buy, Best Buy's distributor, the record company, ad
nauseum).
So the argument that tapes and albums are cheaper to produce than CDs is
ridiculous. You don't have put screws and roller and plastic gears into
CDs;---they're just a piece of cheap crappy plastic!!! Look at CD singles!
What, they put 50% less plastic into CD singles or something?? Its the same
cheap piece of plastic that can be cranked out in Singapore for like .05 a
slab regardless of whether it holds 76 minutes of music or 12.
You (and I) buy them by the 100s anyway; so why should they change the price?
No one is twisting your arm. It's just music, anyway. It's not tangible.
You're just a consumer--plain and simple. You're buying into a philosophy to
spend. You think "Pop-tarts" are good for you? Do we really need cable
television? Consume...consume...
The only things real in life are your house and the food you put in your
belly. The rest of this stuff is all smoke-and-mirrors and doesn't really
exist.
marvyn
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:12:53 +0200
>Can anyone tell me the track listing for the 2nd Single Girl single? Please???
Lush 1996:
Single Girl (clear vinyl)
Single Girl
Sweetie
Single Girl (disc one)
Single Girl
Tinkerbell
Outside World
Cul de Sac
Single Girl (disc two)
Single Girl
Pudding
Demystification
Shut Up
Ladykillers (clear vinyl)
Ladykillers
Wanna Be Your Girlfriend
Ladykillers (disc one)
Ladykillers
Matador
Ex
Dear Me
Ladykillers (disc two)
Ladykillers
Heavenly
Carmen
Plums And Oranges
500 (Shake Baby Shake) (clear vinyl)
500 (Shake Baby Shake)
I Have The Moon
500 (Shake Baby Shake) (disc one)
500 (Shake Baby Shake)
I Have The Moon
Piledriver
Olympia (acoustic version)
500 (Shake Baby Shake) (disc two)
500 (Shake Baby Shake)
I'd Like to Walk Around in Your Mind
Kiss Chase (acoustic version)
Last Night (hexadecimal mix)
and...
Lovelife
Ladykillers
Heavenly Nobodies
500
I've Been Here Before
Papasan
Single Girl
Ciao!
Tralala
Last Night
Runaway
The Childcatcher
Olympia
Last Night (promo)
Last Night (Latent Power Mix)
Undertow (Spooky Mix)
Last Night (Darkest Hour Mix)
Lovelife (Suga Bullit Mix)
Last Night (Hexadecimal Dub Mix)
Ladykillers (Demo/Ruff Mix '95)
This must be enough for the next two or three years... (I hope!)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:49:03 -0400
Hey...
Yesterday I called NYC City Center and they said that they had
*plenty* of tix... today, I call up and I am told that they sold out.
BUMMER!
Maybe I can still find tix somewhere (Ticketmaster location, or
call tomorrow - who knows, the operator didn't sound too certain... the
words 'sold out' weren't in the vocabulary).
AAACK!
I'm going to crawl under a rock now...
Craig
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:23:59 -0400
> Has anyone heard of "Chimera"? I think the band is from Scotland. I
> have their "Day Star" EP. Some people on the Sundays list compared their
> music to the Sundays. The vocalist has Harriet Wheeler-like voice but their
> music is not as acoustic as the Sundays. I enjoy this EP though. Any comment
?
>
I know them and i have a copy of their cd "Lughnasa" which is
very good.
But i don't see any relationships between the chimera's
singer voice to Harriet's voice. The Chimera's one is "dark", ala All
About Eve.
In fact if some people haven't heard them try to imagine All
About Eve plus My bloody valentine's Isn't Anything era. Lughnasa is
that and as you'll can imgagine it's great too!!
Another ep that i think you'd like to listen to is the Eyan
Daze ep from this album, i don't have it but the song eyan daze -
which comes on lughnasa- is a gem. Sweet and acid gem.
Regards.
Wilder.
information about
Eternal.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:10:41 -0700
drex wrote:
>i got one thing to say: Rubbish! u see, why would u constantly pay anything
> more than $9.99 for a cd? and even this is too much, but c'mon!
>i go to The Wiz, Tower, Virgin, Coconuts, and i see the very same cd from
> $12.99 to $16.99. yeah, sure. then i go to another store, and i
> see the cd for $9.99 (brand new, not a free promo). what the heck?
> it is simply, unless it is an import or something that my $9.99 can
> not order for me, i simply don't buy at those rip-off stores. ;P
I guess I'm simply in awe of your luck in living next to such record
stores. I've lived in three different major metropolitan areas (SF/San
Jose, LA, Tucson which I guess isn't 'major' but let's say it is for the
sake of argument) and *never* seen consistent prices of major label CDs
below $12.99. The only things I've ever seen for $9.99 are some indie CDs
(I think Dischord puts stickers on their CDs saying 'if you were charged
more than $10 for this you were ripped off'), cut-outs and oldies, plus
the occasional blow-out promo sale.
My point is that I'm very happy for you, drex, but most of us aren't
living next to loss-making CD stores. (The majors charge the retailers
around $10 for every CD.) Perhaps some local zillionaire is using your
stores as a tax write-off?
It costs $1 to manufacture a CD. I don't believe it costs any less than
that to make a cassette, which is mechanically a lot more complicated
than a CD. The record companies claim the high prices are due to the huge
contracts the artists force them to sign, and their marketing costs...
It should also be pointed out that the US probably has the cheapest
regular CD prices of any country, unless you count the massive pirate
markets in some countries. But I do think that even here the prices are
too high.
__________ ___________________ ________________________
Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator [email protected] [work]
[email protected] [play]
"Nothing but terrifying blue columns. Bangs! Silences." (Louis Andriessen)
_____________________________
http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:48:27 PST
My, this _is_ different. Not unrecognizable as HNIA by any means, but far
removed from the "noisy electric guitar" approach taken on Mouth by Mouth.
If MbM was HNIA's "rock" album, SoE shows, particularly in the last half of
the disc, the "folk" side of HNIA. Appropriately, a phrase from Woodie
Guthrie's "This World is not my Home" serves the unifying theme of the album.
The album has a relaxed, acoustic feel to it, and the drums are much lower in
the mix than they were in MbM. "What Else is New List", and "Universal
Frequncies" both have that "AM radio" sound, as others have described it. The
only thing is, that this is a AM radio which is picking up 60's Americana
from an alternate universe. The whole album has this "Sixties Americana"
feel to it. "What Else is New List" has a surf guitar riff, with a Phil
Spectorish chorus. "The Sand that Holds the Lakes in Place" is the only song
which doesn't fit the sixties feel of the rest of the album. "The Sand..."
seems like an outtake from Home is in Your Head. Other than this track, I
don't see the comparisons to HIIYH that others have made. Given all the talk
lately about band's sound changing or not, SoE shows that Warren can produce an
album which is distinct from its predecessors, yet retains many of the
elements that made them so appealing to me.
Martin
[email protected]
BTW, I'm not familiar with any of Warren's other E.S.P. stuff. Have any of
these songs appeared on other E.S.P. albums? I know Mark Kozelek cowrote
"Across the Street", which song(s) did Ian Masters cowrite?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:41:17 PDT
you damn yanks better stop complaining about cd's that cost
$12.99 or I swear I'll come over there and kick your lucky
asses. ;)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:33:03 -0400
Hey!
I'm glad to have gotten some form of response...
Anyway, I have recently gotten into Renaissance's work. I have
Prologue, Ashes are Burning, Scheherazade and other Stories, Time-Line,
and the compilations: Tales of 1001 Nights (vols 1 & 2) and Da Capo.
I personally don't find that their music sounds dated (some yes, but not
most). I have to admit that I like their later stuff as well as their new
stuff, but I find that their later stuff is lost on the synthesizers. If
they would ever 'regroup' I would love to hear their more recent stuff
the way they used to play with full orchestrations. Their early epic songs
I find that they were trying too hard for epics, and their middle stuff it
was more spontaneous ("Can you hear me?" for example), and works better.
The original line up Renaissance work "Kings and Queens" (off of their
self-titled, which I heard off of Da Capo) kind of set the standard for
later Renaissance (with Annie Haslam and Company) but didn't flow as well
as Annie's Renaissance's pieces did.
I would love to actually *hear* "Song of Scheherazade" performed
in a concert with a full orchestra... now that is my goal in life. (well,
its on my top ten). :)
I have Annie's solo efforts (Still Life, self titled, and Blessing
in Disguise) and agree with you that they really aren't *that* special,
but her voice is the main part used over the music... (her a'cappella
songs are amazing)
Anyway: a really cool Renaissance site:
http://user.mc.net/jtl/1001
and Annie's site is linked.
Sorry to ramble, but I got really excited that someone actually
commented!!!
Next question: any October Project fans? :)
Have a great day!
Craig
[email protected]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:58:11 GMT
At 22:55 7/10/96 +0000, you wrote:
>naor writes:
>>this creates a problem. why is originality so important. I mean, surely,
>>if an artist ( a musician in this case ) makes a great album, then
>>logically,
>>if the album he ( or someone else) makes the next year sounds much the same,
>>it must also be great. right? wrong. why? I admit, I don't have the
>>answer for that yet. anyone?
>
>I've thought about this too, and you're definitely correct that the
>attitude has changed completely in the past, oh, century or so. (The
>"tortured artist" ideal, where the artist is supposed to be alienated
>from society and to produce works that challenge and even shock, is
>another new invention, which I think dates from the Romantic period, i.e.
>mid-19th century.)
>
>Sounds changed only very slowly in classical music, mostly as new
>instruments were developed or new harmonic/tonal ideas appeared. J S Bach
>could spend his whole life working with only a few distinct sounds, all
>of which were also being used by most of his contemporaries.
And then you had the tumultuous CONTENT changes that wrecked havoc on
"polite societies" when artists like Mozart rejected the often
court-commissioned liturgical vein, choosing to use their music/art to
express personal viewpoints about social mores of the time...TRES scandalous
back then! Yet now considered visionary, and certainly accepted as art by
most fans of "serious music".
>
>Similarly, most folk music styles are very rigid, with artists in a
>tradition playing the same instruments in the same ways and using
>particular melodic/harmonic/lyrical frameworks. This includes
>contemporary folk styles like blues and bluegrass, with some exceptions
>(such as Cap'n Beefheart...)
I didn't know the amazing Captain B. was considered by some to be a folkee!
>
>I think it may be that in the pop/rock/whatever tradition artists have
>forgotten how to build on an existing style and increase its power and
>complexity, at least when it's their own style they're looking at.
I guess this is where you're getting back to the great CT debate. I say, so
what? If the artist is happy with an adopted style, a style she/he has honed
over the years, who are we to demand an "increase in power and complexity"?
If we like it (as fans/consumers) we buy it, go to the concerts, etc. If we
don't like it, if the message and/or musical ideas no longer "speak to us",
we don't buy, and in fact we usually in our disappointment relegate the
artists' older stuff to the back of our collections, to gather dust, yet to
sometimes be pulled out/played for a nostalgic trip back in time, and
nothing more.
>(Plenty of artists have copied the style of a preceding artist and
>extended it.)
I don't think CT have ever "copied" anyone, except perhaps in the Garlands
era there may have been a bit of a Siouxie influence there. I do think CT
has been copied more than they have copied others, witness lush and other
4ad bands and thislisty bands too numerous to mention.
The only two options they can hit on seem to be to rehash
>the style in an uninteresting way, or to move into a new style.
Isn't there a third option, to "rehash" the style in a rather INTERESTING WAY?
>
>One possibility is that there are simply too many different sounds and
>styles available. An artist wanting to move forward will grab a new
>instrument or new effects or the style of another band, rather than
>keeping to his/her original style and improving it. So the only artists
>who stick with the same style for a long time are those who've run out of
>the desire to move forward, which means they end up in a rut.
IMHO this kind of generalization, applied to CT or anyone else, is rubbish.
>
>I realize this hasn't answered anything, but I think I've added some more
>ideas to the discussion. Does anyone who actually writes music want to
>add their ideas?
I would forward this to one of my best friends who is a cellist with a
renowned symphony orchestra, who also writes music for film...but I don't
think he would bother to engage in this discussion. I don't write
music...I've just been a DJ and am a major music lover and a filmmaker.
If no musicians respond to your query, I'll forward this to some
alternative musicians I know who are NOT on this here listy...I for one
would love to read various musicians' comments.
Peace,
Carol Coney
>
>__________ ___________________ ________________________
>Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator [email protected] [work]
> [email protected] [play]
>
> "Dreeb! Dreeb! I am the Fuse-Box Dwarf!"
> _____________________________
> http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:56:00 -0700
On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 [email protected] wrote:
> You (and I) buy them by the 100s anyway; so why should they change the price?
> No one is twisting your arm. It's just music, anyway. It's not tangible.
> You're just a consumer--plain and simple. You're buying into a philosophy to
> spend. You think "Pop-tarts" are good for you? Do we really need cable
> television? Consume...consume...
Mmmm, pop-tarts.
Hey Marvyn, good point but ... the idea behind the suit as i understand
it (correct me if i'm wrong) is that there was collusion between the record
companies to *artificially* fix prices high. This is antithetical to a free
market economy and illegal in the US. Prices would come down as soon as the
big guys saw themselves losing marketshare to upstarts willing to give equally
compelling music at 3/4ths the price. E.g., i just went around town
looking for HNIA's "Stars on ESP." The only store that had it was
Tower--and they were charging $16. While in Tower, i spotted Loop Guru at
the listening station. I was duly impressed and bought it BECAUSE it was
on sale for $12. LG is a *very* cool disk but given the choice between
Loop Guru and HNIA at the same price i would have chosen to buy HNIA and put
Loop Guru on my ever-growing "want" list.
-cz
PS to M: area tapes are done, covers are nearly complete.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:49:42 GMT
At 12:38 7/11/96 +0000, you wrote:
>i got one thing to say: Rubbish! u see, why would u constantly pay anything
> more than $9.99 for a cd? and even this is too much, but c'mon!
>i go to The Wiz, Tower, Virgin, Coconuts, and i see the very same cd from
> $12.99 to $16.99. yeah, sure. then i go to another store, and i
> see the cd for $9.99 (brand new, not a free promo). what the heck?
> it is simply, unless it is an import or something that my $9.99 can
> not order for me, i simply don't buy at those rip-off stores. ;P
>now, i had heard the same thing about the lawsuit on CNN (check their web
> page. i am sure they might have some info on it), and the reporter
> only mentioned that if the law suit goes all the way, the prices might
> be reduced big time. and it applies to tapes as well, u know! i
> think that it is much cheaper to produce a tape than a cd, so by no
> means u can have a cd for $5.99, and a tape for $7.99..
>
>only my two pences;
>
>JHR
About that CD class action suit...
I did see on TV a graphic map of the U.S. with the states in question
highlighted...all I know states where I lived most recently (Georgia,
Maryland) were not included.
West Virginia IS, and yet WV has some of the lowest CD prices around...while
there two weeks ago I bought, in Morgantown, WV, NEW in shrink wrap, DCD's
"Spiritchaser" for, get this, $8.97. Yep, that's priced new, bought on the
domestic release date! (Store is called "The Den", located near campus on
University ave, they also sell beer, are a head shop, everything the hip
college would possibly need!) Makes me almost want to move back there (NOT!)
Carol Coney
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:31:06 GMT
At 01:49 7/11/96 +0000, you wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Jens Alfke wrote:
>
>> naor writes:
>> >this creates a problem. why is originality so important. I mean, surely,
>> >if an artist ( a musician in this case ) makes a great album, then
>> >logically,
>> >if the album he ( or someone else) makes the next year sounds much the same,
>> >it must also be great. right? wrong. why? I admit, I don't have the
>> >answer for that yet. anyone?
>>
>> I've thought about this too, and you're definitely correct that the
>> attitude has changed completely in the past, oh, century or so. (The
>> "tortured artist" ideal, where the artist is supposed to be alienated
>> from society and to produce works that challenge and even shock, is
>> another new invention, which I think dates from the Romantic period, i.e.
>> mid-19th century.)
>>
>> Sounds changed only very slowly in classical music, mostly as new
>> instruments were developed or new harmonic/tonal ideas appeared. J S Bach
>> could spend his whole life working with only a few distinct sounds, all
>> of which were also being used by most of his contemporaries.
>>
>> Similarly, most folk music styles are very rigid, with artists in a
>> tradition playing the same instruments in the same ways and using
>> particular melodic/harmonic/lyrical frameworks. This includes
>> contemporary folk styles like blues and bluegrass, with some exceptions
>> (such as Cap'n Beefheart...)
>>
>> I think it may be that in the pop/rock/whatever tradition artists have
>> forgotten how to build on an existing style and increase its power and
>> complexity, at least when it's their own style they're looking at.
>> (Plenty of artists have copied the style of a preceding artist and
>> extended it.) The only two options they can hit on seem to be to rehash
>> the style in an uninteresting way, or to move into a new style.
>>
>> One possibility is that there are simply too many different sounds and
>
>one crucial issue in this comparison of musical styles is sociocultural.
>classsical composers such as bach didn't have a legion of fans whose
>lives depended in large part upon his next opus. he didn't have a bach-l
>waiting to debate his lastest cantata or ep. in fact, bach didn't even
>publish his music during his lifetime, he was a church composer, and his
>music was largely functional (at least that's how his audience and
>employers saw it; bach himself might have had a slightly higher
>attitude).
>
>like it or not, pop musicians are operating in an economy unlike any
>classical or serious music composer until at least the 1940s, when
>recordings of classical works made limited celebrities out of musician
>and conductors (but very rarely of composers). this is not to say that
>the market for 18th, 19th, and 20th century serious musics did not have
>expectations; it did, and usually very conservative ones. efforts to
>break from tradition (exp. stravinsky, 12-tone serialism, debussy) were
>met with confusion and derision. the difference is that this market was
>not commercial; it was usually fueled by patronages.
>
>my point is simply that musical innovation cannot be taken out of its
>sociocultural context.
>
>
>> styles available. An artist wanting to move forward will grab a new
>> instrument or new effects or the style of another band, rather than
>> keeping to his/her original style and improving it. So the only artists
>> who stick with the same style for a long time are those who've run out of
>> the desire to move forward, which means they end up in a rut.
>
>and of course the notion of "moving forward" is also culturally marked.
>i would like to suggest that one way of moving forward is not through
>adopting a new sound (which in a technological sense has probably become
>easier than ever) but through challenging the musical hegemony in a new
>way. an example of this is terry riley's "in c." it is written for
>conventional instruments, and the music itself is as basic as western
>music can get: simple scales and variations in the key of c, no harmony.
>what makes this piece entirely new is its performance technique: the
>number and type of instrument is not specified, and each player works
>his/her way thru 52 short melodic fragments independently, listening to
>the other players while finding their own pattern of repitition and
>movement. the piece is over when everyone has played all 52 fragments.
>this sense of indeterminancy was truly new in a western work at that
>time,as was the challenge to the notion of a "definitive" performance.
Thank you for mentioning Terry Riley's "In C"...a landmark work at the time.
Also relevant would be the work of Philip Glass (mentioned oft in this here
listy) and Meredith Monk (HNIA fans should check MM out!)
Carol Coney
>another challenge (and one more pertinent here) is the notion of singing
>songs whose words are consistently unintelligible. this seems to have
>been largely a creation of mid80s pop music: early rem, most cocteau
>twins. this allowed (forced) a new interpretation of what a "song" is:
>not a conventional narrative whose impact is based on a catchy tune and
>verbal decoding, but a moment in time predicated upon the emotional
>impact of the intonation patterns of a human voice (ct, dcd) or a puzzle
>whose pieces (at least the ones you can find) are smudged, crumpled (rem).
>
>well, again, another large post that hasn't anwered anything; that
>doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother you.
>
>mark
>
>
>>
>> I realize this hasn't answered anything, but I think I've added some more
>> ideas to the discussion. Does anyone who actually writes music want to
>> add their ideas?
>>
>> __________ ___________________ ________________________
>> Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator [email protected] [work]
>> [email protected] [play]
>>
>> "Dreeb! Dreeb! I am the Fuse-Box Dwarf!"
>> _____________________________
>> http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
>>
>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:09:06 -0400
Actually, just outside Philly. I had some trepidation about seeing them
after the not-so-positive reviews of Spiritcatcher, but since I am a
relatively new fan and had never seen them before, I was looking forward
to seeing what all the fuss is about. I found out and am glad I did! :-)
I was very bad and went and enjoyed the music - most of it - without
taking notes of songs played. There were some from past CDs and,
presumably, some from the new one (I don't have it yet, so am not sure).
They did do American Dreaming, which I have never been real fond of but
was much better in person. There were others that I am familiar with and
they too were much improved by seeing a live performance. Maybe the idea
is to see the live performance and then buy the CD - or not, if you don't
like the music.
There does seem to be a bit more percussion than in former music, and
there is even one piece that is centered on a young man and his drum.
But, he is excellent and his performance was filled with the spirit and
life that is we are told is not in the CD versions. That was an encore.
It followed the best song of the concert, and that one I wish I knew the
name of. I will shortly! It has Lisa singing and playing, all at the
same time - the only time she did much of that. It was also wild to see
Brendan playing her instrument! In another song. (is it obvious I forget
the name of the thing?)
In live performance the percussion is there, but does not dominate. Lisa
does that and that may be a result of stage placement Down Center, where
she was on the video from the last tour. Even when she was not on stage,
she dominated because the place for her instrument was standing there in
the middle of things. Oh, well.... I was not really there to check stage
placement or setting, but rather to hear the music and see the musicians I
have heard so much about. Both were, to be terribly British about it,
quite nice. The music may have gained inordinatly from being live, or
maybe I am still an impressionable kid (my son introduced me to them three
years before he got married), but I liked what I heard and was very happy
to see what I saw. I don't know the song names and have no technical
knowledge of music, but I do know that, to me (is that a key phrase??) it
was great! The rest of the country has something to look forward to. I
do too, when I finally get the CD. :-)
If you can, see the concert, and enjoy the music (if you like it. :-)
Don
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:28:40 -0700
I just absent-mindedly deleted about the last 300 messages from this
lists, many of which I wanted to read. If some kind of person would do
something along the lines of zipping up his 4ad-l folder and mailing it
to me, I would really *really* appreciate it. :)
Please write first tho so I don't end up with twenty of the suckers.
Thanks,
e
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:18:38 -0400
Anyone out there that's been to the Dead Can Dance show please tell me what
the overprices propaganda looks like>
Are the shirts nicely designed? Is there a special DCD talisman I can make my
own?
I still have 2 5th row tickets for sale for the Dallas show.
[email protected]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:29:50 -0700
Yet another thanks to all the HNIA fans and their ever-present input. I picked
up Home Is In Your Head today; this album made me feel much like I felt when I
heard the Pixies the first time. Beautifully quirky, innovative music like I've
never heard before. On the other hand, I heard Livonia a couple weeks ago and
couldn't tear the headphones off quick enough, so...
Also got Shelleyan Orphan's humroot. Sounds a lot like the Sundays, but I think
I like it. Can someone tell me if this album indicative of their "sound"?
Lastly, I have a request from a guy at work. He's a big TMC fan and is looking
for the fourth album included with the box set. He said he'd be willing to pay
big money for this, so if anyone is interested, I'll be your go-between on the
bidding.
I'm still looking for Tricky's Nearly God here in Seattle, anyone else in the US
had any luck? Also haven't seen Universal Frequencies or Stars on ESP anywhere.
Jon
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:29:17 -0500
On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, Jens Alfke wrote:
> >songs whose words are consistently unintelligible. this seems to have
> >been largely a creation of mid80s pop music
>
> I can trace this back at least as far as Hugo Ball's nonsense poetry of
> circa 1916, which was I believe performed to a musical backing. (See
> Greil Marcus' "Lipstick Traces".) The best known of these is "I Zimbra",
> which the Talking Heads used as lyrics to a song on their 1980 album
> "Fear Of Music".
> Another obvious example is scat singing, which I believe dates back to
> the '30s.
but i think we are talking about two different levels of
"unintelligibility." hugo ball's nonsense poetry is still a text to be
decoded as such. even though the morphemes do not carry their
conventional english "meanings," nevertheless the listener is presented
with a fixed, concrete text. with liz fraser, the listener is not quite
sure what he/she is hearing--is it nonsense, a foreign language, an
unusual syntax, muddled enunciation, a private language? that there is
no concrete text is essential to its effectiveness. and this "aural
blurring" of a text in the context of a pop song is rather new (although
perhaps earlier than the mid80s--does inna gadda davida (sp?)
count?). finally, though, the strategy of aural blurring as a
consistent and primary means of communicating the text of a song in
western pop music is quite new, radical, and completely different from
"nonsense" songs.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:41:09 -0400
In a message dated 96-07-11 03:51:49 EDT, you write:
<< >well folks, here's how it went....
>After all was said and done, I had a chance to talk to Warren at length
about
>some things. He mentioned that Ian Masters did in fact appear with hnia at
>the UK dates and that Spoonfed Hybrid was putting out a 5(approx) song ep
on
>CD soon of b-sides and unreleased stuff -- something to look for.
ESP-Family
>may be putting out a CD soon....
hey blue----
was there any mention of a domestic release of ESP summer??? I thought at
one time that Perdition was going to release it. I never picked up the
french import. Is it still available?
John
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"you're so boring boring boring / always tape machine recording
you're so boring boring boring / and you've heard all this before"
-Dead Kennedys
john b. jones [email protected]
http://web.syr.edu/~jojones
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
warren had visited chicago (where perdition is based) --- one of the reasons
being to arrange the release of the ESP-Continent CD domestically --- and
also to perform a few live shows there..................the release party the
night before, nothing was mentioned about it. sorry i didn't ask, i really
hadn't thought to since i already have one of the import versions. i'll keep
it in mind the next time i see him though.
~blu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:02:05 -0500
someone recently mentioned this. i think i saw the cd last week--red case and
long titles? i only have 'moon and the melodies' and 'lovely thunder'. am i
missing out?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:11:48 PST
>Lastly, I have a request from a guy at work. He's a big TMC fan and is looking
>for the fourth album included with the box set. He said he'd be willing to pay
>big money for this, so if anyone is interested, I'll be your go-between on the
>bidding.
If he's willing to pay big bucks, why doesn't he just get the whole boxed
set? I see this around (at Best Buy, even) for $50 to $70US.
>Also haven't seen Universal Frequencies or Stars on ESP anywhere.
I found SoE at Tower, on the day it was released, but even then, they only
had 2 copies(?). I still can't find UF. I'm trying to get it through
EAR/Rational.
Martin
[email protected]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:40:02 -0700
Carol Coney wrote:
>Isn't there a third option, to "rehash" the style in a rather INTERESTING WAY?
Sure, but it doesn't seem as though many 'pop' artists use it. That's
kind of what the whole question we're discussing boils down into.
>IMHO this kind of generalization, applied to CT or anyone else, is rubbish.
Generalization maybe, but I thought we had agreed that _in general_
artists are not choosing the Option 3 above, and this was my tentative
explanation for why. Artists want to progress, and in today's environment
it's felt that you have to vary your style or sound to make progress; so
the ones who don't change their style are those who have given up on
progress and just want to Give The Fans What They Want.
>I didn't know the amazing Captain B. was considered by some to be a folkee!
His music is certainly grounded in the Delta blues style, and he takes
off into the stratosphere from that point. Whereas most of the blues has
taken a very slow path to stylistic variations, with new styles arising
only gradually over decades.
__________ ___________________ ________________________
Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator [email protected] [work]
[email protected] [play]
Want to be * Got to be * Witty * Don't want to * Be inert * Inert * WITTY
_____________________________
http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:01:59 -0500
and from 80's radio we got:
dave stewart and annie lennox
alannah curry and tom bailey
(used to wish they were my parents)
boy george and that mike guy
wendy and lisa
don't tell me i'm the only one whose tape collection has roots here.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:40:13 -0500
At 02:29 PM 7/11/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm still looking for Tricky's Nearly God here in Seattle, anyone else in
the US
>had any luck? Also haven't seen Universal Frequencies or Stars on ESP
anywhere.
>
>Jon
>
Regarding Nearly God:
The CD is amazing, in case you haven't heard it. The songs are more similar
to each other than Maxinquaye (sp?). Anyway, the domestic (US) release date
is August 6 (as of a month ago). So, if u can wait, just buy it domestically.
oteran