4ad-l Mail for 07-10-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: No HNIA :<(
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:07:32 -0700
From: Layne McLean (laynemc@SNOWCREST.NET)
Subject: Re: ***hnia***'s
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:46:39 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Tim Friese-Green (this listy) - my two cents
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:14:24 +0200
From: Frank Brinkhuis (frankbri@PI.NET)
Subject: Re: Neapolis!!!!!!!!!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:53:19 -0700
From: Jon Drahn (pdrahn@PDRAHN.SEANET.COM)
Subject: HNIA record release party w/Jenny Toomey
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:55:11 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Eternal.
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:14:39 +0200
From: Frank Brinkhuis (frankbri@PI.NET)
Subject: His Name is Alive & misc.
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:25 -0700
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:39:23 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Geurnica Stuff and outdated catalogues??
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:00:00 EST
From: Cameron Webb (CAMERONW@CIDM.WH.SU.EDU.AU)
Subject: Cocteaus
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:23:47 +0100
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:50 -0500
From: a bear of very little brain (hk@NEOSOFT.COM)
Subject: His Name is OVERTAKING 4AD-L
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:19:36 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: shinkansen stuff
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:07:22 -0700
From: "A. Dean" (a.dean@UK22P.BULL.CO.UK)
Subject: two short reviews (ok, so i lied)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:38:53 -0400
From: The Boy In Zinc (Boyinzinc@AOL.COM)
Subject: DCD promo CD for sale
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:59:27 -0400
From: Erika (esherman@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: questions about belly
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:32:57 PDT
From: naor (naor_y@NETVISION.NET.IL)
Subject: Her own bad self...
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:17:11 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: non4ad - it's about the Cure tour...
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:35:25 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:19:37 +0100
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 15:16:14 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:08:08 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:06:12 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: Eternal
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:53:51 EDT
From: mattn@MIT.EDU
Subject: Ooops...
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:19:12 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:43:09 EDT
From: mattn@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: SYMPTOMATIC 4AD BULLSHWAG
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:53:36 -0400
From: Rich Holtzman (Richieis1@AOL.COM)
Subject: Calling Jay Senese!
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:29:35 -0400
From: Roy Burns (RBNRy@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: stamps
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:55:41 -0400
From: Shar Everett (ISOBL202@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: SYMPTOMATIC 4AD BULLSHWAG
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:49:09 -0400
From: Rich Holtzman (Richieis1@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Her own bad self...
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:09:27 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Date: 10/07/96 16:35
From: Paul Walsh (Paul.Walsh@PETROLITE.CO.UK)
Subject: FAQ & Digest mode & how to unsubscribe
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:31:11 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Tim Friese-Green (this listy) - my two cents
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:35:20 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:31:40 -0400
From: "McHale, Jack (Richmond)" (JMcHale@SMTP.RICHMOND.EXECUTRAIN.COM)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:12:28 -0700
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: expanding the cocteaus debate
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:06:25 PDT
From: naor (naor_y@NETVISION.NET.IL)
Subject: voice from Tokyo
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 05:20:23 +0900
From: Rikihito Watanabe (lemmy@MXA.MESHNET.OR.JP)
Subject: Re: questions about belly
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:10:38 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:00:59 -0500
From: mark&sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name is OVERTAKING 4AD-L
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:01:47 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:46:05 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Listy questions
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:44:53 EDT
From: "Barry A. Mathews" (Barry.A.Mathews@VALLEY.NET)
Subject: Tim Friese-Green
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:20:08 +1200
From: Robin Fargher (robinf@DEV.WHOLESALE.NBNZ.CO.NZ)
Subject: Ivo remixes outside of 4AD
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:12:35 +0200
From: "Laurent Lapierre \"P'tit Greg.\"" (lapierre@FILNET.FR)
Subject: where get 4AD t-shirtrs and posters?
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:28:12 +0000
From: Arthur Rosene (ahr@phoenix.net)
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 15:55:10 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Lush singles
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:49:25 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Tim Friese-Green/Eternal
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:28:51 -0400
From: the royal society for putting things on top of other things
Subject: Re: Love Spirals Downwards
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:37:36 -0700
From: jeremy redman (jredman@uci.edu)
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 20:49:41 -0500
From: mark&sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: ***hnia***'s
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:01:49 -0400
From: The Boy In Zinc (Boyinzinc@AOL.COM)
Subject: HNIA release party w/Jenny Toomey and the Whale
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:55:42 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Chimera
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:23:38 -0400
From: xymox (xymox@ESCAPE.COM)

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:07:32 -0700
From: Layne McLean (laynemc@SNOWCREST.NET)
Subject: No HNIA :<(


I do understand the fact that I live in a VERY musically un-hip town,
but even the Camelot (yes, that's the best I have to choose from) is run
by one of my former students, so I usually can get "major-label" stuff
easily enough.  I was really bummed when HNIA was not in today.

Typing this and listening to 'Electronic' instead of HNIA.

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:46:39 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: ***hnia***'s


In a message dated 96-07-09 18:44:53 EDT, you write:

<< well,
         i got staars on esp today, as soon as i could get my way to ann
 arbor. 1st off, 15.99$???? what the hell?
  >>
  where the hell did you go??  Sckoolkids has it on sale (as they do with all
new releases) for $12.99.

~blu

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:14:24 +0200
From: Frank Brinkhuis (frankbri@PI.NET)
Subject: Re: Tim Friese-Green (this listy) - my two cents


>For all those who don't know Tim Friese-Green Produced
>Cathrene Wheel's "Ferment" and Lush's "Sweetness and Light" which are
>probably my most favorite. I just curious of what else he has done in
>the past.

Talk Talk and Thomas Dolby, to mention a few.

Frank

+++++++++++++++++++
Frank Brinkhuis
frankbri@pop.pi.net
+++++++++++++++++++


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:53:19 -0700
From: Jon Drahn (pdrahn@PDRAHN.SEANET.COM)
Subject: Re: Neapolis!!!!!!!!!


>please have time to go to http://www.wvonline.com/pacman/neapolis/
and browse around the site and tell us what we should change.

You might try adding something to read, maybe some cool graphics to look at,
uhhhh, any other ideas, anyone?  I went here and the page was completely blank.
Of course, I'm one of the few backwards people using Mosaic instead of Netscape,
so maybe that's my problem.

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:55:11 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: HNIA record release party w/Jenny Toomey


Tonight was beyond belief........went down to Zoot's here in Detroit for
earlier this week was assumed just be a Jenny Toomey performance, but in
addition turned out to be the hisnameisalive record release party.

Unfortunately, Warren was the only one who could make it....  I didn't ask
about Karin or Trey or their whereabouts, but we did talk at length about
hnia and other side projects specifically.

But since I have only got 4 hours before I must be back at work...a lengthy
review must wait until tomorrow...let me just say for now that Jenny's
performance was brilliant...playing new songs, Liquorice tracks and such....

as I said...more to follow tomorrow..........................and look for one
hell of a tour~~

~blu

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:14:39 +0200
From: Frank Brinkhuis (frankbri@PI.NET)
Subject: Re: Eternal.


At 20:55 9-07-96 -0400, you wrote:
>    Has any of you heard this ethereal-noise band?
>    I know it was the group of Christian Saville from Slowdive, but
>only have a 7" single with 2 songs: Breathe/Sleep. But God i just
>LOVE those songs!!
>
>    So is there anything else by Eternal?

I'm afraid not. Eternal was a one-off pre-Slowdive project. But if your copy
of the 7" is worn out, then buy the Sarah Records 'Glass Arcade' CD
compilation (SARAH 501). Both tracks are featured on it.

Frank
+++++++++++++++++++
Frank Brinkhuis
frankbri@pop.pi.net
+++++++++++++++++++

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:25 -0700
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: His Name is Alive & misc.


Got a promo for the new album at work yesterday, and rather than going
into a big long review, I'll just say this: it *doesn't* sound like Home
is in Your Head.  It most definitely covers _new_ territory.  As always,
the recording and mixing is fantastic.

New RHP comes out on the 23rd, new Yo La Tengo on the same day.  Billboard
had an article about Throwing Muses, said there'd be a 2-disc set released
early '97 including 1) the 1st s/t album and Chains Changed and 2)
unreleased materials, including mid-80s demos.  And Kristin is pregnant
with her 3rd baby...

Mike

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:39:23 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive


In a message dated 96-07-09 08:56:09 EDT, you write:

<< does anyone care to comment on the hnia 'my canada' flexi from warped
 reality?>>

yeah, why can't i find the darned thing...after trying two GOOD reputable
book stores and Tower AND Border's.....  no one has ever heard of it...and I
know I've seen it somewhere before...... anyone in the Detroit area help?


<< I haven't sent in my money to susan yet, but would like to know where
they're
 sitting with this one (hnia that is :)

 wondering why there are no midnight _stars on esp_ madness sales in ohio,

 jason

 srilank@aol.com
  >>
quite a few midnight sales here around ann arbor for hnia and others~~
  didn't go though, hoped I'd get mine directly from warren (who still has my
caps key) tonite at the show...and i figured right....(see following post)

~blu

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:00:00 EST
From: Cameron Webb (CAMERONW@CIDM.WH.SU.EDU.AU)
Subject: Re: Geurnica Stuff and outdated catalogues??


>What does That Dog sound like. Who are they....??

I saw of video of theirs a few months ago.  I think the track was called
Kissing Christian (?).  Not a bad song, good harmonies and violin (?)
solo.  The band sounded a bit breedersish, definately
worth a listen if you are into that kind of stuff! I couldn't tell
you the name of the album, I haven't read or heard anything about it.

I hope this vague information is helpful.

Cameron.
Cameron Webb
cameronw@cidm.wh.su.edu.au

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:23:47 +0100
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Cocteaus


Walked in this morning with a grin on my face, almost bumping into trees
and lampposts.  I don't care if they haven't progressed since 1982, I
don't care if the new stuff is a cowardly retreat from the bold new
horizons of "Four Calendar Cafe", I don't care if Liz is still singing
Michael Jackson-type lyrics about finding your inner child to heal the
world (because you can't hear the lyrics, apart from "Alice", whose
chorus is "Alicealicealicealicealice").  I think the Cocteaus are making
better music now than they have since 1988 or so, and it makes me very
happy.  "Circling Girl" and "Smile" are the denser (HOH) style of sound,
"Alice" and "Tranquil Eye" are gentler, calmer, "Victorialand"ish.

Also, the Spooky album "Found Sound" is very, very good - it's somewhere
in the middle of the techno road, the experimental bits aren't as way
out as Autechre and the lush melodic bits aren't as lush or melodic as
Orbital, but it is always interesting (albeit lacking in depth
sometimes).  Fifteen songs in just over an hour, with plenty of variety
- from thumping beats to gentle semi-ambient tunes.  The overall sound
is of metallic instruments - gongs, glockenspiels, etc.  Plus the track
which uses samples of the Twins, of course (still can't make out what is
being sampled, but it sounds familiar).  There's another tune with
sampled vocals which may or may not be Liz, but F/G/R are only credited
on "Hypo Allergenic".

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England 10/07/96
nja@le.ac.uk, http://www.engg.le.ac.uk/staff/Andrew.Norman/
Cocteau Twins


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:50 -0500
From: a bear of very little brain (hk@NEOSOFT.COM)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive


C.K. Coney wrote:
> So is the CD everyone's talking about "Stars on ESP" released under the HNIA
> name, or is it another, related project under another name? And do you all
> love it as much as all their other stuff?

'Stars on ESP' is an honest-to-goodness HNIA album, and it's probably their
most whimsically upbeat work thus far.  Sorta reminds me of AM pop radio
filtered through the same ears and brain that gave us 'Livonia.'  I know it's
not a good description by a longshot, but I'd put it tied with 'King of
Sweet' for close second right behind 'Livonia.'

Just my unsolicited $0.02, of course.


hk
--
hk@neosoft.com farrago@delphi.com http://www.neosoft.com/~hk/home.htm
"ciggy, ciggy, puff, puff, puff and wheeze...." -- the monochrome set

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:19:36 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: His Name is OVERTAKING 4AD-L


> Thank you everyone who e-mailed me personally or posted to this list re: His
> Name Is Alive. Based on glowing, gushing ravings I bought Livonia today, and
> it is absolutely PHENOMENAL (excuse me for shouting...but I think I had a
> religious experience.)

Yeah, I had one too.  But I think I traced it down to some bad oysters I had
earlier that same evening...

Sorry to cast a dissenting vote but "Livonia" is just a bunch of irritating
musical meanderings.  I think I paid someone to take this CD away from me.


HNIA...HIS NAME IS ANNOYING  (...the hell out of me.)


marvynHortman

"i'm really leaving now, I swear."

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:07:22 -0700
From: "A. Dean" (a.dean@UK22P.BULL.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: shinkansen stuff


people were asking about shinkansen stuff, especially the trembling blue
stars lp. well, if you'll excuse the plug, then there are a couple of
(small, low quality) samples to be found on:


in the discography, at the bottom. (which needs the radcliffe session
added to it but i've been away for a while). shinkansen page in general
(again about a week out of date) is at:


personally i think it's wonderful (there are more impartial reviews at
the bottom of the page too). the live date the other night was a bit
strange, people go out to have a good time but it's all very
introspective and maudling and, well, you can't dance to it.

btw, went to see blueboy the other day and christian eternal / slowdive
was serving behind the bar...

andy
--
a.dean@uk22p.bull.co.uk
clive sinclair stole my childhood...


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:38:53 -0400
From: The Boy In Zinc (Boyinzinc@AOL.COM)
Subject: two short reviews (ok, so i lied)


spoonfed hybrid:  "hibernation shock" ep  farrago records

what an appropriate way to answer the "have they released anything else?"
query.  details on who to talk to and where to send the money follow this
extremely biased review...

i say extremely biased because as it is known, i simply love any piece of
music that ian has ever touched (unless you count that pail saint tape on
time stereo -- bleagh)...

here we go:

the artwork is similar to that of the "scary verlaine" b/w "the sun always
changes my mind" 7" released last year...it may just be a negative...for the
uninformed/unfortunate who don't have this gem, it's a handprint on
translucent paper (like the insides clearskin ep) -- blue for the cdep, brown
for the 7"  artwork courtesy of nicholas devilliers, or something like that
(ask lorraine for info on his 'zine "sugarlift" -- it's fab)  i'll dispense
with the run-ons and get into a proper review

1.  "token she-van" (9:26) (ian and chris both have writing credits on this
one)

this is a remix of "heavens knot" (track 1 off of the guernica album) done by
warren defaver of hnia fame...it's almost clubby -- not noisy (that's NOISY,
fred) like i expected...it's not the best piece of techno i've ever heard,
but it's pretty passable...a bit on the longish side...ian sings the lyrics
to the song and his voice lilts in and out of the song occaisionally.  my
only problem with this track is that it ends suddenly, as in, right in the
middle of a note.  this truncation may have been some kind of accident, but
from the little i know of warren and ian's personalities, it was probably
deliberate...8/10

2.  "the sun always changes my mind" (5:29) (ian)

this one is a spoonfed "classic."  i'm really glad it made it on to cd as the
end of the song is one of the band's peaks.  starts off slow with several
different synths -- very beautiful.  ian's voice joins in...really clear and
right in the front (unlike a lot of his other works)  not really much in the
way of drums, but there are some kind of dubby beats (which remind me a bit
of the synth record scratches in 'tiny planes') and cymbals that fade in and
out...shit, my description isn't really doing the song much justice...it's
really damn beautiful, and ends with ian's voice singing "i'm walking
away...i'm walking away...i'm walking away from my shadow...i'm walking
away...at the bottom of every song is a spoonful of sleep..." while an
electric piano, some kind of synth snoring (it really is cool -- i know it
sounds hokey, but it is) while some keyboards join in...the snoring fades out
as a weird saxophone plays about three notes at the end...i don't remember
the sax being on the 7"  care to fill me in hk?  anyway, this song makes the
ep well worth buying.  10/10

3.  "make a fist" (2:35) (chris)

chris sings on this one, and it's in a similar style to "messrs. hyde" with
more of the piano you so love, e...the music to this one is sort of cheery,
but with fairly depressing lyrics, kind of that prozac kind of happy, i
guess..."in winter the nights are too long, the drugs are to strong...i'm no
use on my own...i need a nice girl and a happy home..."  this song is almost
as wonderful as "the sun always changes my mind," but lacks the beautiful
"take me to another world" ending of the former, so it comes up a little
short of tsacmm...9.5/10

4.  "the violence of violins" (3:36) (ian)

this one is another winner, on par with "make a fist" as far as quality
goes...ian sings again...this one is a "separation song..." "while you're
asleep...lost...can't eat..." (i think) the tune is really dark and haunting
(minor key, of course)...would go really well right along with "a pocketful
of dust" from the lp..."make me a child again, even if just for
tonight...sounds like someone shooting..."  ok, i lied, it's better than
"make a fist," because it has a lot more drama to it...where chris seems to
go with a lot of sarcastic happiness, ian seems to capture more complex
emotions in his music...anyway, i'm getting philisophical and not describing
the song too well, so i'll shut up...it's really good...10/10

5.  "scary verlaine" (8:45) (chris)

whereas the other songs on the ep have moments where i can't tell if it's a
real instrument or a synth (laugh all ya want), this song is definately
all-electronic...chris probably recorded this one while fucking around in a
studio or something...it's the other track on that french 7", and as far as i
can tell, it's the same version...the song is kind of cool and creates a
sensation not unlike flying (there are a lot of abrubt fade-ins and
fade-outs)...has kind of a slow beginning, but then kicks in with regular
beats around 2 mins in...oh, and it's an instrumental, which is a bit of a
dissappointment because ian and chris have such nifty voices...anyway, this
songs is pretty cool, but not stellar like tracks 2,3, and 4...for some
reason a lot of it sounds borrowed, but i don't know why...7/10

anyway, this ep is really good -- probably one of the best releases i've
heard this year (though it has been a pretty crappy year, so far) next to
maybe the hnia album (isn't that finally out in the states, now?) and mojave
(if that counts)...you can get it (if you live in the us) by sending a check
for $9 ppd to farrago records; po box 13148; houston, tx 77219).  if you live
outside the us, or have any questions, send your queries to hk@neosoft.com;
 he's on the list, so if you lose that address, just e-mail the list and i'm
sure he'll be in touch (ask 'im about buddha on the moon, too!)

sugarplant - "cage of the sun" ep  pop narcotic

first, a bit of an introduction...sugarplant are a japanese pop band (they
sing in english) along the lines of mazzy star/luna/mojave, though a bit less
lilting and beautiful.  the only stuff i've heard by them is a 7" a friend
taped me and a lp borrowed from a local listie (hi, igor)...i won't go into
too much detail since they aren't as popular on the list as spoonfed
hybrid...overall, the ep is a decent piece of pop...chinatsu shoyama has the
kind of voice that people get obsessed with (kind of vulnerable and soft like
hope sandeval or harriet wheeler, though not quite as good...)  the standout
track on this disc is (let the flames fly) a cover of "turn it on," by the
flaming lips, a song i always thought had potential, but that guy's voice
just ruins anything they try to do...of course it really just keeps the words
and the melody -- this version's really quite soft (and thus better, imo,
than the original).  there's also a cover of a song called "n.i.t.a." by a
band called young marble giants (someone care to provide a short bio?) that's
ok...the best songs on the cd, though, are the title track, the lead track
(called purple bike) and "turn it on."  i got mine for 7.25 from
parasol...btw, it's six tracks and 31 mins long...

well, this is actually quite long...i'll probably be back with more reviews
next week of orbital, shiFt, fuxa, scala (the cdep is out now!), and whatever
i pick up on my trip to minneapolis this weekend.

later,

BiZ

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:59:27 -0400
From: Erika (esherman@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: DCD promo CD for sale


  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.


Hi guys,
as a former member of this list, I thought I'd let you all knwo that I'm
selling some DCD and other thislisty stuff. The list is attached. If you
can't see attachments or need another copy, e-mail me and I'll send it
out ASAP :)

Erika
esherman@umich.edu



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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:32:57 PDT
From: naor (naor_y@NETVISION.NET.IL)
Subject: questions about belly


I heard Belly perform a song called 'sweet ride' on some compilation.
beautiful song, I have some questions.

1. the song sounded somewhat familiar. is it a cover?

2. where is it on their discography? a b-side maybe?

3. I liked the song so much that I went and bought the album 'king'.
   it was a disappointment. is their other album significantly different
   than king?

4. this is actually a Throwing Muses question but what the hell.
   I have the first Throwing Muses lp and surprisingly, I don't like it
   very much. it's kind of annoying. could be because the music is supposed
   to be a little annoying, could be because it's so damn hot in here that
   practically everything irritates me right now. the question is: is there
   a Muses album that sounds different?

lot's of questions, I know, but this list is my main (only) source of info
about these bands. thanks.

-naor-
glaciers, ice baths, giant refrigerators, snow, lots of snow, brrr.

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:17:11 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Her own bad self...


Today I bought the new/first/solo Kelley Deal 6000 cd...

        "Go to the Sugar Altar" (11 tracks)

After one quick listening:

        Great record! I love it!

More info on a funny official web site:

        http://www.kelleydeal.com

        Kelley made the graphics and icons herself!

Interesting note on the sleeve:

        "Kelley Deal appears courtesy of her own bad self."

So what's the story behind that?



Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, July 10, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:35:25 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: non4ad - it's about the Cure tour...


>Does any of you have the confirmated tour of Cure?



I saw them live on Dave's Late Show: they suck!

I've been to cure-concerts for about ten times in the last 15 years (oh my
god, fifteen years...) and I have never seen them play that bad, and the
new single/album is the worst record they have ever produced.




Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, July 10, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl


How bad can moods swing?

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:19:37 +0100
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: questions about belly

              96 02:32:57 pm

 naor  wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 1996
 (Subject: questions about belly)
 > I heard Belly perform a song called 'sweet ride' on some
 > compilation.  beautiful song, I have some questions.
 >
 > 1.  the song sounded somewhat familiar.  is it a cover?

No.

 > 2.  where is it on their discography? a b-side maybe?

B-side to "Gepetto".  This is all on
  http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/eyesore.html
Lars's monster 4AD web database.

 > 3.  I liked the song so much that I went and bought the album
 > 'king'.  it was a disappointment.  is their other album
 > significantly different than king?

Not significantly, but it does have a softer sound, so if you liked
"Sweet Ride" then "Star" might be more to your taste than "King".

 > 4.  this is actually a Throwing Muses question but what the hell.
 > I have the first Throwing Muses lp and surprisingly, I don't like
 > it very much.  it's kind of annoying.  could be because the music
 > is supposed to be a little annoying, could be because it's so damn
 > hot in here that practically everything irritates me right now.
 > the question is: is there a Muses album that sounds different?

Yes.  Try "The Real Ramona" (which is the most Belly-like Muses album).
It took me a while to get into the first album, which *is* quite
abrasive (though I'd say that's no bad thing), but once it clicked I was
hooked ("Chains Changed" is one of those records I can still remember
eagerly anticipating - I was at a conference the week it was released,
and the first thing I did when I got home was shoot round the shops
trying to find it).

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England 10/07/96
nja@le.ac.uk, http://www.engg.le.ac.uk/staff/Andrew.Norman/
Cocteau Twins

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 15:16:14 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: questions about belly


>1. the song ('sweet ride') sounded somewhat familiar. is it a cover?

Great indeed, no cover; written by Tanya Donelly



>2. where is it on their discography? a b-side maybe?

B side: from the 'Gepetto e.p.', also on the Gepetto e.p. (remix disc one)
with the same catalogue number (why did they do that?)



>3. is their other album significantly different than king?

Yes 'Star' is different and better, but the first 3 e.p.'s + b-sides are
even better.



>4. is there a Muses album that sounds different?

Try 'The Real Ramona' or 'Red Heaven', I think these are the best Throwing
Muses records. If you like the sound of Belly's 'Sweet Ride'; you should
also listen to Kristin Hersh solo stuff.




Emiel Efdee
...
the Netherlands, July 10, 1996
... efdee@luna.nl


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:08:08 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: questions about belly


PS, Sharedcast is coming with me.  I'll leave the other one here as well; but
it will be orphaned.  Nobody up here knows (or cares) that it is here, and they
certainly don't know how to maintain it.  So it will probably croak about 2
days after I leave...or someone will "disembody" my Mac and stick the optical
drive in the storeroom.  :(  No more "barney".  :(

marvyn

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:06:12 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: questions about belly


Wow!  Things are going well for you.  (You should take a better job if those
other folks are weasling on you...trust me, it only took me 3 years to realize
this ;) )

Gina is doing great.  She is coming with me.  I'll tell her you said "hello".

BTW, the version we are using of AppleShare Client Windows is 1.0.2.

Take care, I'll give you my new email just as soon as I know it myself.  :)

marvyn


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:53:51 EDT
From: mattn@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Eternal

              <199607100747.DAA20576@atlanta.american.edu>

Eternal was a band on Sarah records and they only had one single.

Fortunately, you can hear two of the songs on this single on Sarah's
comp "Glass Arcade" of which for some odd reason, plenty of copies abound.

This will also give you guys a chance to experience some wonderful other
stuff including a Fieldmice instrumental, a lovely orchids song, etc.
Matt


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:19:12 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Ooops...


My mailer just freaked out and sent mail to 4AD-L instead of the person I
wanted it to go to.  (i just got the return receipts and realized what
happened...)

Ignore those other messages!  (if you read them, then I'll have to kill you.)

marvyn "joanna's got a free shot here" Hortman

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:43:09 EDT
From: mattn@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance

              <199607100747.DAA20576@atlanta.american.edu>

Althought Liz and Robin may have been involved with one another,
at least they didn't live in different countries (As did the DCD people.)

Anyways, lots and lots of bands have singers that are romantically
involved.  We should make a list.  Let me start it.

1. CT (already observed)
2. DCD (already observed)
3. Rocketship (Dustin and Verna)
4. Holiday Flyer (oops they're brother and sister...scratch that one)
4. Ian and Sylvia (pop folk from the 60's)
5. Damon + Naomi (From Galaxy 500 and Magic Hour...Je ne sais pas en fait)
5. X (Again, I wouldn't know but perhaps)
5. The Fieldmice, Northern Picture Library (Robert and Anne-Marie, Anneliese,
   (whatever her name was)
6. Peter and Amelia from Talulah Gosh/Heavenly
7. Rachel and Neil from Slowdive and Mojave III

I'm sure if we put on our thinking caps (and want to waste precious time)
we can think up some more.

Matt

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:53:36 -0400
From: Rich Holtzman (Richieis1@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: SYMPTOMATIC 4AD BULLSHWAG


Again please let me know the record store that you went to so I can give them
a mouthful.
thanks
rich

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:29:35 -0400
From: Roy Burns (RBNRy@AOL.COM)
Subject: Calling Jay Senese!


Jay Senese...

I need your e-mail address. I have a message for you from someone who is not
on line at the moment.

Thanks,

Roy


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:55:41 -0400
From: Shar Everett (ISOBL202@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: stamps


hello frank
got the stamps a few days  ago

very nice..

thank you again

shar

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:49:09 -0400
From: Rich Holtzman (Richieis1@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: SYMPTOMATIC 4AD BULLSHWAG


HNIA was released on July 9, 1996 in the US.  If you looked for it and could
not find it then their is a problem with that record store.  We would like to
know that.  We are still a very small company and it takes a lot of time to
contact everyone.  If someone told you that it did not come out yet, they are
either lying ar they are just stupid.

It would be really helpful to me if you could tell me bad things so I can
correct them.  There are hundreds of record stores, and there is 1 person at
4AD who calls retail part time.  I am sorry that you were unable to get it
but it is available now.

rich

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:09:27 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Re: Her own bad self...


Emiel Efdee wrote:

>Interesting note on the sleeve:
>"Kelley Deal appears courtesy of her own bad self."
>So what's the story behind that?

I think it has to do with the fact that only Kim is officially signed
to 4AD with regards to The Breeders.  By saying Kelley appears courtesy
of her own bad self, it may mean she is proudly non-4AD or something.
At any rate, it's yet another addition to albums Mr. Watts-Russell has
declined for his label.  In Canada, Mercury/Polydor have licensed it!
Pretty cool stuff!

Jeff Keibel
Toronto, ON
CANADA

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:47:00 GMT
From: Paul Walsh (Paul.Walsh@PETROLITE.CO.UK)
Subject: Re[2]: questions about belly


     WHAT THE FUCK - leave those mushrooms alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: questions about belly

Date: 10/07/96 16:35 PS, Sharedcast is coming with me. I'll leave the other one here as well; but it will be orphaned. Nobody up here knows (or cares) that it is here, and they certainly don't know how to maintain it. So it will probably croak about 2 days after I leave...or someone will "disembody" my Mac and stick the optical drive in the storeroom. :( No more "barney". :( marvyn

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:31:11 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: FAQ & Digest mode & how to unsubscribe


Time for another irregular announcement of the FAQ (that's list of
Frequently Asked Questions, newbies) of the 4AD-List. This is where you
learn how to unsubscribe and how to receive the daily digest, as well as
the answers to lots of musical questions that come up frequently, and a
big list of thislisty mail-order sources, mailing lists and Web sites.

Set your web browser to:


As always, I welcome corrections and suggestions of new Q's & A's. I
apologize that I haven't had time recently to add the latest new web
sites & such. I hope to find time soon.

__________          ___________________          ________________________
Jens Alfke          OpenDoc Optimizator          jens@apple.com     [work]
                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]

to wound the autumnal city. So howled out to the world to give him a name.
                                            _____________________________
                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:35:20 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Tim Friese-Green (this listy) - my two cents


Frank Brinkhuis wrote re. Tim Friese-Green:
>Talk Talk and Thomas Dolby, to mention a few.

Yes, and since it's been at least three weeks since I plugged Talk Talk's
last album "Laughing Stock" in this august forum that means it must be
time to do so again. Sparse, echoey, jazzy, almost falling asleep in
spots but coming to with sudden bursts of noise. This is a very beautiful
and uncategorizable album that everyone should own -- especially anyone
who even slightly enjoyed Bark Psychosis' "Hex" or Slowdive's "Pygmalion"
(or the Catherine Wheel song "Ferment" on the album of the same name,
which has a very distinct Talk Talk sound to it.)

__________          ___________________          ________________________
Jens Alfke          OpenDoc Optimizator          jens@apple.com     [work]
                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]

to wound the autumnal city. So howled out to the world to give him a name.
                                            _____________________________
                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:31:40 -0400
From: "McHale, Jack (Richmond)" (JMcHale@SMTP.RICHMOND.EXECUTRAIN.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance


>>----------
>>Anyways, lots and lots of bands have singers that are romantically
>>involved.  We should make a list.  Let me start it.
>
>>1. CT (already observed)
>>2. DCD (already observed)
>>3. Rocketship (Dustin and Verna)
>>4. Holiday Flyer (oops they're brother and sister...scratch that one)
>>4. Ian and Sylvia (pop folk from the 60's)
>>5. Damon + Naomi (From Galaxy 500 and Magic Hour...Je ne sais pas en fait)
>>5. X (Again, I wouldn't know but perhaps)
>>5. The Fieldmice, Northern Picture Library (Robert and Anne-Marie,
>>Anneliese,
> > (whatever her name was)
>>6. Peter and Amelia from Talulah Gosh/Heavenly
>>7. Rachel and Neil from Slowdive and Mojave III
>
>>I'm sure if we put on our thinking caps (and want to waste precious time)
>>we can think up some more.
>
>>Matt
8. Mack and Laura from Superchunk (now split, romantically)
9. Thurston Moore and Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth
10. Patti Smith and one of her guitarists (until he od'ed).
11. Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz of Talking Heads  (married)
12. Lead singers from Sky Cries Mary (can't remember names, woman is
maybe Alissa?)
13. Richie and Elaine from Siddal

Actually, what makes the Cocteau's and DCD dynamic is that they're very
small bands (practically duets).  Makes for a very unique chemistry.


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:12:28 -0700
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive

              Wed, 10 Jul 1996 01:39:23 -0400

>   << does anyone care to comment on the hnia 'my canada'
>   flexi from warped  reality?>>
>
>   yeah, why can't i find the darned thing...after trying
>   two GOOD reputable book stores and Tower AND
>   Border's.....  no one has ever heard of it...and I know
>   I've seen it somewhere before...... anyone in the
>   Detroit area help?

Um, why not just get it directly from them?  After all Andrea Feldman is on THIS
list and has posted the address.  Here it is again.  (i only have this on hand
because i'm about to send in my $'s too)

-cz


$4, send checks or concealed cash to:

Andrea Feldman
Warped Reality
PO Box 2515
Providence, RI 02906

else you want to email us about.

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:06:25 PDT
From: naor (naor_y@NETVISION.NET.IL)
Subject: expanding the cocteaus debate


the on-going debate about the Cocteau Twins, changing or stagnant, seems
to take for granted the assumption that change is not only a good thing,
but also a requirement for an artist. either the involved parties know
something that I don't, or they are ignoring a basic yet complex question in
the criticism of art.
it seems things have changed greatly since the classicist era when the
only measure of an artist,any artist, was how close did he/she get with
his/her imitation of the classic 'masterpiece'. the masterpiece was a
single piece, written many years earlier which was considered by all
(all - as in *everybody*) to be the perfect model of the genre.
not only that originality was not required, it was actually unwanted.

nowadays, originality is the main quality most of us look for in an
artist, and in some cases it maybe the only quality that artist poses.
alternative music, which is the kind of music we like here, is by definition
meant to be "different".

this creates a problem. why is originality so important. I mean, surely,
if an artist ( a musician in this case ) makes a great album, then
logically,
if the album he ( or someone else) makes the next year sounds much the same,
it must also be great. right?     wrong.  why?  I admit, I don't have the
answer for that yet. anyone?

I apologise if this is a bit heavy. if the general public thinks so, please
there is no need to flame. just don't reply and I will get the massage.

-naor-
the night crawler.


Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 05:20:23 +0900
From: Rikihito Watanabe (lemmy@MXA.MESHNET.OR.JP)
Subject: voice from Tokyo


  My name is Rikihito Watanabe.     I started a music unit called " Lemmy
Caution ", last year.    I intend to create the world of a fantastic sound
depending on a $B!! (Bunique interpretation.     Please teach your address, as w
n
ting to listen to a tape, by all means.
 --------------------------------------------------------------
  e-mail : lemmy@mxa.meshnet.or.jp
  URL      : http://www2.meshnet.or.jp/~lemmy_c/
 Address  :  Chofugaoka 3-20-6, Cyoufu-si, Tokyo, Japan

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:10:38 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: questions about belly


album 'Star' is very different from 'King'. Its much poppier and much
'hooky-er' and much more up-tempo.
Though I know there are some on the list who pan Belly as bubblegum
trash, Tanya does have a way with a Hook (i've heard she's got one in
her head)... I think Belly are well worth having


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:00:59 -0500
From: mark&sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins / Dead Can Dance


On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 mattn@MIT.EDU wrote:

> Althought Liz and Robin may have been involved with one another,
> at least they didn't live in different countries (As did the DCD people.)
>
> Anyways, lots and lots of bands have singers that are romantically
> involved.  We should make a list.  Let me start it.
>

11. stereolab (tim and laetetia)

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:01:47 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: His Name is OVERTAKING 4AD-L


At 04:19 7/10/96 +0000, you wrote:
>> Thank you everyone who e-mailed me personally or posted to this list re: His
>> Name Is Alive. Based on glowing, gushing ravings I bought Livonia today, and
>> it is absolutely PHENOMENAL (excuse me for shouting...but I think I had a
>> religious experience.)
>
>Yeah, I had one too.  But I think I traced it down to some bad oysters I had
>earlier that same evening...
>
>Sorry to cast a dissenting vote but "Livonia" is just a bunch of irritating
>musical meanderings.  I think I paid someone to take this CD away from me.

Hey...I'm willing to help you out, as I am now in process of building my
HNIA collection. Why pay anybody? I'll take the rest of their CD's off your
hands AT NO CHARGE! (E-mail me personally & I'll send you my snail mail
address so you can mail them to me pronto...and thanks in advance!)

Carol Coney
>
>
>HNIA...HIS NAME IS ANNOYING  (...the hell out of me.)


>
>
>marvynHortman
>
>"i'm really leaving now, I swear."
>

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:46:05 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges


At 12:05 7/9/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Umm, hope nobody minds me carrying this on.  I do think Lars is raising
>some interesting points and we don't seem to be at each others throats
>(yet?! :-).  Anyways , Lars wrote:
>
>>Or, rather,
>>CT were flailing around for a "sound" and made Garlands and HOH before
>>finding something they were comfortable with in Treasure, and have
>>stuck to that sound/music/method ever since.
>
>Perhaps, but I don't suppose Robin Guthrie would agree with you.  I always
>get the impression that "abortion" Treasure is his least liked CTs album
>which would suggest he wanted to ditch that sound.  But, on the other hand,
>I've never had much time for Guthrie's opinions.  I suspect they're too
>loaded with perspectives drawn from his personal life.  For example, saying
>that DCD are "sad and pretentious".  He may be right but really, people who
>live in glass houses shouldn't take their trousers off.  It couldn't be
>intra-label jealousies rising to the surface, could it?
>
>Simon Hughes

I think it was probably less intra-label jealousy and more like rebellious
youth (Robin included) saying whatever the heck they wanted to say (to the
press, to whomever) during the punk era, regardless of who might be offended.

Robin has said things seemingly right off the top of his head that maybe
were hurtful of some folks (like the DCD comment)...but hey, give him the
benefit of the doubt & chock it up to his age at the time and his punk
attitude back then. Heck, he'd fit right in on THIS list if he got involved
in the "e" flame war!

Carol Coney

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:44:53 EDT
From: "Barry A. Mathews" (Barry.A.Mathews@VALLEY.NET)
Subject: Listy questions


I'm writing the group to beg the answers to a couple of thislisty questions:

1)  What is the 11th track on the US version of the Scheer album?  Is it an
acoustic of another track?  A b-side?

2)  Can anyone give me the track listings on Lush's last 2 singles?


Thank you!

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:20:08 +1200
From: Robin Fargher (robinf@DEV.WHOLESALE.NBNZ.CO.NZ)
Subject: Tim Friese-Green


>            For all those who don't know Tim Friese-Green Produced
>Cathrene Wheel's "Ferment" and Lush's "Sweetness and Light" which are
>probably my most favorite. I just curious of what else he has done in
>the past.

Lots of early Catherine Wheel (at least until Gil Norton took over for Chrome?)
+ most if not all Talk Talk. I think he played on many Talk Talk releases too.


Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:12:35 +0200
From: "Laurent Lapierre \"P'tit Greg.\"" (lapierre@FILNET.FR)
Subject: Ivo remixes outside of 4AD


>>Does anyone hold a list of Ivo remixes made outside of 4ad ?

Ivo and John Fryer have remixed Cranes _Cloudless (tha=EFs mix) on
_forever remixed_



                       ___
Laurent Lapierre      |-,-|    . . . e n i v r e z - v o u s . . .
lapierre@filnet.fr    | - |    [words BaudelairE  music StereolaB]
 http://www.filnet.fr/perso/lapierre/

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:28:12 +0000
From: Arthur Rosene (ahr@phoenix.net)
Subject: where get 4AD t-shirtrs and posters?


i asked this question about two months ago.. but somehow my mail
filtering was messed up and i never got an answer.. so i ask this
question again..

where can i get 4AD t-shirts and posteres?

thanks


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 15:55:10 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate


naor writes:
>this creates a problem. why is originality so important. I mean, surely,
>if an artist ( a musician in this case ) makes a great album, then
>logically,
>if the album he ( or someone else) makes the next year sounds much the same,
>it must also be great. right?     wrong.  why?  I admit, I don't have the
>answer for that yet. anyone?

I've thought about this too, and you're definitely correct that the
attitude has changed completely in the past, oh, century or so. (The
"tortured artist" ideal, where the artist is supposed to be alienated
from society and to produce works that challenge and even shock, is
another new invention, which I think dates from the Romantic period, i.e.
mid-19th century.)

Sounds changed only very slowly in classical music, mostly as new
instruments were developed or new harmonic/tonal ideas appeared. J S Bach
could spend his whole life working with only a few distinct sounds, all
of which were also being used by most of his contemporaries.

Similarly, most folk music styles are very rigid, with artists in a
tradition playing the same instruments in the same ways and using
particular melodic/harmonic/lyrical frameworks. This includes
contemporary folk styles like blues and bluegrass, with some exceptions
(such as Cap'n Beefheart...)

I think it may be that in the pop/rock/whatever tradition artists have
forgotten how to build on an existing style and increase its power and
complexity, at least when it's their own style they're looking at.
(Plenty of artists have copied the style of a preceding artist and
extended it.) The only two options they can hit on seem to be to rehash
the style in an uninteresting way, or to move into a new style.

One possibility is that there are simply too many different sounds and
styles available. An artist wanting to move forward will grab a new
instrument or new effects or the style of another band, rather than
keeping to his/her original style and improving it. So the only artists
who stick with the same style for a long time are those who've run out of
the desire to move forward, which means they end up in a rut.

I realize this hasn't answered anything, but I think I've added some more
ideas to the discussion. Does anyone who actually writes music want to
add their ideas?

__________          ___________________          ________________________
Jens Alfke          OpenDoc Optimizator          jens@apple.com     [work]
                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]

              "Dreeb! Dreeb! I am the Fuse-Box Dwarf!"
                                            _____________________________
                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:49:25 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Lush singles


About the Lush singles :

Ladykillers #1:
Ladykillers
Matador
Ex
Dear Me (miki's 8 track home demo)

Ladykillers #2:
Ladykillers
Heavenly
Carmen
Plums & Oranges

So when's this "500" single(s) coming out then?

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:28:51 -0400
From: the royal society for putting things on top of other things
Subject: Tim Friese-Green/Eternal


Brian wrote:

>For all those who don't know Tim Friese-Green Produced
>Cathrene Wheel's "Ferment" and Lush's "Sweetness and Light" which are
>probably my most favorite. I just curious of what else he has done in
>the past.

He's done some work with Talk Talk and also produced the second House of
Love album (the one with the butterfly on the sleeve, a.k.a. _Fontana_).

Wilder wrote:

>Has any of you heard this ethereal-noise band?
>    I know it was the group of Christian Saville from Slowdive, but
>only have a 7" single with 2 songs: Breathe/Sleep. But God i just
>LOVE those songs!!
>
>    So is there anything else by Eternal?

No. They recorded another single but their label, Sarah, decided it was crap
and didn't release it. Then Christian joined Slowdive and that was the end
of that. If you're interested but don't want to go to the trouble of
tracking down the 7", both tracks are included on the Sarah compilation _The
Glass Arcade_.

And they're not to be confused with the all-girl singing group of the same name.

Larry

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:37:36 -0700
From: jeremy redman (jredman@uci.edu)
Subject: Re: Love Spirals Downwards


i don't recall anyone posting this a few weeks back, but...

2-3 weeks ago, whenever the Projekt Across This Grey Land festival was,
Love Spirals Downwards played the first nite.  They were quite good.
Obviously not as produced with all the effects as on the albums, but her
voice came across very strong and clear.  Damn good live sound.  Very
friendly onstage. In their "encore" they played Mojave's Mercy, which
was way cool.  hopefully if projekt releases a live cd from the concert
they'll include that...

The second nite, a new projekt band, Arcanta, played.  They have the
potential to be cool, although they sounded too much like a DCD/4AD rip
off.  Their first song was very DCD sounding, with tablas and backing
female singer.  Then they did an a capella song which i think was very
very similar to the Lisa chant song on the toward the within video (near
the end, which isn't on the cd).  then the singer did a version of Song
of the Siren.  wish they'd find their own stuff, and not cover 4AD
covers..  but they could be good, and i'm sure if you like DCD you'll
like the album when it comes out later sometime this year.

--
jeremy redman      "peace in a world free from religion,
 jredman@uci.edu     peace in a world where everyone gets heaven."
                      - Toni Halliday


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 20:49:41 -0500
From: mark&sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: expanding the cocteaus debate


On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Jens Alfke wrote:

> naor writes:
> >this creates a problem. why is originality so important. I mean, surely,
> >if an artist ( a musician in this case ) makes a great album, then
> >logically,
> >if the album he ( or someone else) makes the next year sounds much the same,
> >it must also be great. right?     wrong.  why?  I admit, I don't have the
> >answer for that yet. anyone?
>
> I've thought about this too, and you're definitely correct that the
> attitude has changed completely in the past, oh, century or so. (The
> "tortured artist" ideal, where the artist is supposed to be alienated
> from society and to produce works that challenge and even shock, is
> another new invention, which I think dates from the Romantic period, i.e.
> mid-19th century.)
>
> Sounds changed only very slowly in classical music, mostly as new
> instruments were developed or new harmonic/tonal ideas appeared. J S Bach
> could spend his whole life working with only a few distinct sounds, all
> of which were also being used by most of his contemporaries.
>
> Similarly, most folk music styles are very rigid, with artists in a
> tradition playing the same instruments in the same ways and using
> particular melodic/harmonic/lyrical frameworks. This includes
> contemporary folk styles like blues and bluegrass, with some exceptions
> (such as Cap'n Beefheart...)
>
> I think it may be that in the pop/rock/whatever tradition artists have
> forgotten how to build on an existing style and increase its power and
> complexity, at least when it's their own style they're looking at.
> (Plenty of artists have copied the style of a preceding artist and
> extended it.) The only two options they can hit on seem to be to rehash
> the style in an uninteresting way, or to move into a new style.
>
> One possibility is that there are simply too many different sounds and

one crucial issue in this comparison of musical styles is sociocultural.
classsical composers such as bach didn't have a legion of fans whose
lives depended in large part upon his next opus.  he didn't have a bach-l
waiting to debate his lastest cantata or ep.  in fact, bach didn't even
publish his music during his lifetime, he was a church composer, and his
music was largely functional (at least that's how his audience and
employers saw it; bach himself might have had a slightly higher
attitude).

like it or not, pop musicians are operating in an economy unlike any
classical or serious music composer until at least the 1940s, when
recordings of classical works made limited celebrities out of musician
and conductors (but very rarely of composers).  this is not to say that
the market for 18th, 19th, and 20th century serious musics did not have
expectations; it did, and usually very conservative ones.  efforts to
break from tradition (exp. stravinsky, 12-tone serialism, debussy) were
met with confusion and derision.  the difference is that this market was
not commercial; it was usually fueled by patronages.

my point is simply that musical innovation cannot be taken out of its
sociocultural context.


> styles available. An artist wanting to move forward will grab a new
> instrument or new effects or the style of another band, rather than
> keeping to his/her original style and improving it. So the only artists
> who stick with the same style for a long time are those who've run out of
> the desire to move forward, which means they end up in a rut.

and of course the notion of "moving forward" is also culturally marked.
i would like to suggest that one way of moving forward is not through
adopting a new sound (which in a technological sense has probably become
easier than ever) but through challenging the musical hegemony in a new
way.  an example of this is terry riley's "in c."  it is written for
conventional instruments, and the music itself is as basic as western
music can get: simple scales and variations in the key of c, no harmony.
what makes this piece entirely new is its performance technique: the
number and type of instrument is not specified, and each player works
his/her way thru 52 short melodic fragments independently, listening to
the other players while finding their own pattern of repitition and
movement.  the piece is over when everyone has played all 52 fragments.
this sense of indeterminancy was truly new in a western work at that
time,as was the challenge to the notion of a "definitive" performance.

another challenge (and one more pertinent here) is the notion of singing
songs whose words are consistently unintelligible.  this seems to have
been largely a creation of mid80s pop music: early rem, most cocteau
twins.  this allowed (forced) a new interpretation of what a "song" is:
not a conventional narrative whose impact is based on a catchy tune and
verbal decoding, but a moment in time predicated upon the emotional
impact of the intonation patterns of a human voice (ct, dcd) or a puzzle
whose pieces (at least the ones you can find) are smudged, crumpled (rem).

well, again, another large post that hasn't anwered anything; that
doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother you.

mark


>
> I realize this hasn't answered anything, but I think I've added some more
> ideas to the discussion. Does anyone who actually writes music want to
> add their ideas?
>
> __________          ___________________          ________________________
> Jens Alfke          OpenDoc Optimizator          jens@apple.com     [work]
>                                                  jens@mooseyard.com [play]
>
>               "Dreeb! Dreeb! I am the Fuse-Box Dwarf!"
>                                             _____________________________
>                                             http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
>


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:01:49 -0400
From: The Boy In Zinc (Boyinzinc@AOL.COM)
Subject: class action lawsuits and whatnot...


Subject: ***hnia***'s


well,
        i got staars on esp today, as soon as i could get my way to ann
arbor. 1st off, 15.99$???? what the hell?<<<

saw this in the newspaper today, thought maybe someone on the list could
provide a little more info (like what states it covers, etc.)  sorry if
someone has brought this up already, i'm on the digest, and i haven't seen
anything here about it...

Top Six CD Makers in Price-Fixing Suit

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) --

The nation's six largest makers of compact discs have been accused of fixing
CD prices in a lawsuit that could result in payments to millions of buyers.

Lawyers for two CD buyers sued on Monday and won immediate class-action
status, which means OTHER CD CONSUMERS CAN JOIN.  The suit does not specify
how much it is seeking but limits each individual claim to $5,000.

CDs sell for maybe $12 to $15.  The suit alleges the companies propped up
retail prices even though refinements in manufacturing and other improvements
have cut the cost of making a CD from $3 in 1983 to less than $1 now.

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of anyone who bought CDs from any of the six
companies after June 26, 1992.

The companies are EMI Music Distribution; Sony Music Entertainment; Warner
Elektra Atlantic Corp.; UNI Distribution Corp., a unit of MCA Music
Entertainment Group; Bertelsmann Music Group; and Polygram Group
Distributors.

"We believe that suit is wholly without merit, and beyond that we do not
comment on matters involving litigation," said Dennis Petroskey, a spokesman
for Bertelsmann.

Although people don't buy CDs directly from the manufacturers, the suit
argues the manufacturers strong-armed stores into keeping prices high.

It contends the manufacturers kept stores in line by suspending some
advertising assistance or cutting them off if they sold the CDs below certain
minimum prices.

The lawsuit was filed in Blount County Circuit Court on behalf of CD buyers
Chris Robinson and George Silvey.  It has been certified as a class action in
14 states (anyone know which ones?) and the District of Colombia.

The six manufacturers control more than 85 percent of the $9.4 billion-a-year
U.S. compact disc industry, the lawsuit said.



i will try to gather more info on the lawsuit in the coming days and will
(unless people are not interested) post it to the list.

later,

BiZ

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:55:42 -0400
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: HNIA release party w/Jenny Toomey and the Whale


well folks, here's how it went....

it was unfortunate that Trey and Karin couldn't make it, and it also happened
that Davin had prior commitments.  Things kicked off just after 10 with a
brief performance by Noise Camp and the dancing whale.....actually the
vocalist of Noise Camp (forgot his name at the moment) dancing about in a
cardboard whale creation of Warren's --- for those of you who don't know,
Warren likes to make life-size animal creations of paper-mache, and
cardboard, etc for each of the performances....

So with the whale dancing about giving out free copies of "Stars..." and
"Universal..." whilest chanting to the noise production created by Warren and
the rest of the gang in Noise Camp.  Lasting only 15 minutes, Warren sat down
and began giving away more freebies in return to answering questions about
whales like "What is the best kind of whale?" ...someone answered a sperm
whale....another was "how many teeth does a whale have?"...naturally none,
but 2 people spoke up saying "none" and the other said "17"...he gave the cd
to the guy who said 17.  it was that kind of crowd, he really didn't care who
got them, that's why after running out of questions, he just gave the rest
away.....(i got me a 2nd copy of "universal..." by the way)

Then began Jenny Toomey's performance w/Geoff Farina (he's from a band called
Secret Stars(which I've never heard of)....Jenny was pure joy....even when
she flubbed a chord or two, it was very enjoyable.  Playing songs both new,
and from Liquorice (including "cheap cuts" "blew it" (stopping and explaining
that it was a joke about Ivo) and ending the set with "team player") and one
that sounded like a Tsunami song...not quite sure.  While taking requests,
someone asked for "Squawk of the town" which brough a few chuckles since it's
obviously no the easiest song to play without some advance set-up....thinking
back, I wish I had asked her to play "Jill of all trades"

After all was said and done, I had a chance to talk to Warren at length about
some things.  He mentioned that Ian Masters did in fact appear with hnia at
the UK dates and that Spoonfed Hybrid was putting out a 5(approx) song ep on
CD soon of b-sides and unreleased stuff -- something to look for.  ESP-Family
may be putting out a CD soon....when asked about a CD release for
ESP-Beetles, he said most people don't like it....I love it....I wish more
listies would give it a chance.  Only a few dates for the tour have been set
through August, some of which he asked me not to take as gospel since they
were still in discussions.....the Detroit show will PROBABLY be at
Alvin's....the Ohms may open a show or two (this is Warren's friends Wade and
Dion who are brilliant when it comes to science-noise music)...check out
their tape available through Time Stereo..... some of the items he had to
sell (Time Stereo mainly) were interesting....a tape he alone made called
Control Panel  'Technological LP'...I've had a chance to listen to it twice
now....it's best described
ambient-techno-noise-with-a-defever-twist......worth picking up also if
you're into the Seefeel side of ambient......not much to say about the very
elusive mono-mix LP of "Stars..." except to say that he loved it listening to
it for the first week and no he much doesn't care for it..... to each his own
i suppose, I'd love to be able to just find one.  He also had about 6 copies
of "King of Sweet" believe it or not.  he was only asking $10 ea...versus $60
I think is what I read Perdition Plastics had been asking for.  If you need
one, you should alsop probably contact Davin at Time Stereo.  Lots of
ESP-Beetles, Family 45's..... PD-M Cd's and vid's.....and the new er um 45
from Shaolin Temple

all in all, I walked away $25 lighter, with a 2nd copy of "King of Sweet",
the Control Panel tape...a bunch of flyers from the UK appearances Warren
had, and some from that nites show...and the biggest friggin grin you ever
saw knowing that Warren had once again pulled it off.

Congratulations Warren ( and to the others who chipped in of course)...you've
done a marvelous job.

Driving away last nite listening to the Control Panel tape....thinking about
all the other incarnations PD-M, Mystic Moog Orchestra, ESP-Family & Beetles,
and Elvis Hitler (ew! chills!)  ...it leaves you thinking.... is there
anything this guy can't do?

~blu

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:23:38 -0400
From: xymox (xymox@ESCAPE.COM)
Subject: Chimera


        Has anyone heard of "Chimera"? I think the band is from Scotland. I
have their "Day Star" EP.  Some people on the Sundays list compared their
music to the Sundays.  The vocalist has Harriet Wheeler-like voice but their
music is not as acoustic as the Sundays.  I enjoy this EP though.  Any comments?

-JH


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 7-10-1996