4ad-l Mail for 07-07-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 *yawn*: Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 21:41:32 -0700; From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: various stuff: Area/Lush/Rollerskate Skinny/etc: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 01:23:12 -0400; From: Jennifer Jamieson (Rmitchel5@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Lars Wars: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 08:14:44 +0200; From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen (larsi@IFI.UIO.NO)
Subject: Velour 100 review: Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:43:20 +0600; From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Velour 100 review: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 04:49:23 -0700; From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: flameage, electronic, boxes, moovies: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 07:53:57 -0700; From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: various stuff: Area/Lush/Rollerskate Skinny/etc: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:29:09 -0400; From: Gregory Lawrence Smith (gt7003b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU)
Subject: Mary Maggie O'Hara: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:45:43 -0400; From: Roy Burns (RBNRy@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Velour 100 review: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:09:57 +0600; From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: virgina astley: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:38:46 -0500; From: mark & sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: For sale: old 4AD stuff (update): Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:32:24 -0500; From: mark & sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: Caroline Crawley: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:58:14 -0400; From: Gregory Lawrence Smith (gt7003b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU)
Subject: Cathal Coughlan / Trembling Blue Stars: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:47:47 EDT; From: Dez (100702.123@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Subject: important update: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, etc.) (fwd): Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:44:12 -0500; From: creeping jenny (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 *yawn*: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:54:03 -0700; From: noisegirl (kelli@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Caroline Crawley: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:30:28 -0700; From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: virgina astley: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:16:31 -0700; From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 *yawn*: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:27:22 -0700; From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 *yawn*: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:37:31 -0700; From: noisegirl (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 23:46:26 GMT; From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 *yawn*: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:16:57 -0400; From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:00:51 GMT; From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: various stuff: Area/Lush/Rollerskate Skinny/etc: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:00:51 GMT; From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:15:44 GMT; From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: SnoozeGirl and no more flaming on my part.: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 18:49:40 -0700; From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:50:02 GMT; From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: The Kelley Deal 6000: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 22:36:10 -0700; From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins (was Spiritchaser): Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:50:03 GMT; From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: Yet more on the great Cocteau purges: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 19:17:28 PST; From: "Martin A. HOYT" (MAHOYT@UCI.EDU)
Subject: generic jb post v 1.0 *frown*: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:08:10 -0700; From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)

Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 21:41:32 -0700
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 yawn


Look Nosegirl...when Elvia got on the 4ad list he started attacking her out
of the fucking blue.  I have friends who are on this list that have
mentioned the same thing on their persons. Since einexile is such an ass,
he will be treated as such. When he learns diplomacy, I will be nice to
him. When he attack others, I will attack him. Actually there are two other
fellow apostles of einexile that I have a problem with...but they're not as
rude and obnoxious as einexile. If you like his behavior so be it....but
your not on the receiving end are you?

It's real simple. All he has to do is treat people with respect.....like
everyone else on this list.


==================================================
"Keep Peace With Your Soul. Strive to be Happy. It's Not Easy Fighting the
20th Century."
              In The Nursery
                                     ~|~
                                    /---\
                                   | 0^0 |
                                     <">
                                    \/*\/
                                 Fred Da Pagan
                                   _/_/_/_/
                                  _/   _/
                                 _/_/_/
                                _/
                               _/
           /\_/\
           (o o)
      --ooO-(o)-Ooo--  Pagan Man's sidekick gOD.

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 01:23:12 -0400
From: Jennifer Jamieson (Rmitchel5@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: various stuff: Area/Lush/Rollerskate Skinny/etc


In a message dated 96-07-06 20:10:35 EDT, you write:

<< i like the name rollerskate skinny and 'horsedrawn wishes'even more so,
but i
 hated the cd.  go figure.
  >>
ok if we are going to continue this thread, then i'll add my op-  best disc
i've bought this year, great name (hey- at least it has a literary origin).
 I strongly recommend this, but it isnt for everyone.  Unfortunately, my
boyfriend agrees with the previous post.  Their first disc is also said to be
excellent and has jimi shields playing drums on it.

jennifer in atlanta (2 weeks to the Olympics - HELP ME!!!)

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 08:14:44 +0200
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen (larsi@IFI.UIO.NO)
Subject: Re: Lars Wars

Matthew Kirkcaldie  writes:

> >There never was an argument.  You made a silly assertation.  I
> >corrected you.
>
> Uh, Lars - that should be "assertion".

Well, if it *was* meant to be an assertation, then it would be very
silly indeed, don'tcha think?  :-)

--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:43:20 +0600
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Velour 100 review


Velour 100 - Fall Sounds

Okay, i'm sure this was reviewed here before but i hope i have something new to
add about Trey Many's new band *Velour 100*.  I was surprised at the warmth,
beauty, and listenable experimentation that i found on this disk.  There are
only two members listed, Trey and Amon Krist.  Amon sings and, i presume, Trey
plays guitars, drums, etc. (who's playin' piano?).  Both of Trey's 4AD bands
(Liquorice and His Name is Alive) are obvious points of reference.  Velour 100
takes the straightforward melodic rock sound of Liquorice and adds some
juxtaposing sonic experimentation ala HNIA but the sound is more sparse and
introspective than you might anticipate and the percussion is often underplayed.
Parts of it remind me a little of Red House Painters without the melancholy or
perhaps the mood of Innocence Mission.  Amon's voice is a real pleasure!  It's
warm, down-to-earth, and perfectly pleasing.  There's something really sincere
there and perhaps the only reference i can give you is Jenny's voice from
Elysium.  I've only had this for a day, and though it doesn't instantly jump out
as a masterpiece it grows more dear each time i listen to it.

-cz

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 04:49:23 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Re: Velour 100 review


cz...

Thank you for one of the best reviews I've read in 4ad-l in a long time!
 Your review actually makes me curious about Velour 100 enough to search
out their album.  If only more posts we're like yours as opposed to the
whole "einexile"/"lars" conflict type.  Good work, cz!

Jeff Keibel
Toronto, ON
CANADA

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 07:53:57 -0700
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: flameage, electronic, boxes, moovies

On Sat, 6 Jul 1996, the badass pop girly from hell wrote:

> >  As your
> > last post on the ambient list, were you quote an author in length, but fail
> > to sight said author. A classic example of pure ego at work...in reality
> > it's called plagrasim.
>
>   it may also be called forgetfulness. you assume too easily, and that can
>   get you into trouble. just because someone refers to another's
>   quotes/writings/etc. doesn't mean they are plagiarizing that person.

This would all be well and good except I stated outright that the passage
was a quotation. Elvia is of the opinion that to appropriate work from
another culture (read: race) is imperialistic, but that it is acceptable
to steal from someone who looks more like him than Pete Namlook does. All
I did was abide by Elvia's beautiful philosophy and count the achievement
of another author as my own--perfectly appropriate because the author was
white, don't you think? My people, my culture, thus my achievement.

This was, of course, a joke...but if Elvia claims to come from a
different mindset, read the ambient archives and you will see otherwise.
Why was it was necessary to drag this shit over here to defend his
unwarranted flaming of someone else? Your guess is as good as mine.

As for my treatment of Classic Elvia, *ding* there's your vendetta for
you right there. Fred is miffed at me because I insulted his fucking
girlfriend. Note the he's not bothered referring to any specific message
we might be able to look up. For that matter, I'd like to see if he can
find one single Elvia-einexile flamewar that didn't start with him
publicly insulting someone.

And please don't correct his grammar. That is like teaching a psychopath
to behave himself in public.

In fact, don't do that either.

---

And now, some relevant bandwidth. Sort of. If anyone is still reading.

Electronic - Forbidden City
---------------------------
Great title. Ace song. That jangly fun Marr stuff that made Get the
Message so goddam great, and percussion right out of Mazzy Star. Sounds
like someone shaking a great big christmas tree. Sumner's vocal melodies
are catchy and move with the chords in that emotional way, dipping into
darkness at all the right moments, finally plunging into the one of the
best interludes anyone in this band has been involved with. It's clever
and dramatic and just gorgeous. The ending may seem a bit floundering to
some; I've grown used to it and like it, and overall I place the tune
almost on a level with Get the Message and Disappointed. (I don't like
other Electronic.) Oh yeah--and there is some Will-Sergeant-circa-1984
guitar shit I just love.
  You can wait for the album, though. The first b-side is a fab song at
its core, but unfortunately ruined by dorky electronics and an even worse
drum track. Think of those belief-era Nitzer Ebb remixes, except without
credibility or much variation. It just doesn't work, and I could forgive
it but it drags on and dominates the song, even stealing the show for the
last ninety seconds. It doesn't add up to a great listen.
  The last of the three songs is not fab. It is weak, plodding, sloppy.
The melodies are too repetitive and the mood has a way of flopping
around, not seeming to know its proper direction. This wouldn't be so bad
if the song wasn't marred (heh) by female backing vocals that should have
been buried with the mid-eighties American top 40 radio that spawned
them. Remember Vanity? That. The track is, however, a hell of a lot
better than most of the last album, which may be bad news for hardcore
Electronic fans but leaves me looking forward to the new full length
effort.

---

The above review reminds me that I am now stuck with two copies of this,
since I think I ordered one from EAR/Rational. Which in turn reminds me
that Dave recently mentioned to me that he has five limited Milk & Kisses
boxes left. Apologies to whoever it was wrote me about the trade for the
deluxe Star. I have simply failed to get around to the mail. Please feel
free to write back and harp at me.

---

I saw Stealing Beauty. Opening day, actually, if you can believe that.
Stealing Bebauty being the new Bernardo Bertolucci film with Mazzy and
the Cocteaux on the soundtrack and the cinematographer from Delicatessen.
Boring movie, but very, very pretty, and indeed quite thislisty. Go see
it and get a feel for what John Duigan's films are like, only better.

---

Meanwhile, remember The City of Lost Children? Comes out on video July
20th, I think. Yay! Now maybe I'll be able to figure out just what the
hell happens in it...

---

I still haven't gone back to ID4 because every single person I know in
this area code came down with strep throat. =P Someone (not Elvia) please
write and allow me to like live vicariously through you and stuff.

y'all are STILL fucked up,

  geek the einexile (as if that hadn't occurred to me)

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:29:09 -0400
From: Gregory Lawrence Smith (gt7003b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU)
Subject: Re: various stuff: Area/Lush/Rollerskate Skinny/etc

              Jamieson" at Jul 7, 96 01:23:12 am

> << i like the name rollerskate skinny and 'horsedrawn wishes'even more so,
> but i
>  hated the cd.  go figure.
>   >>
> ok if we are going to continue this thread, then i'll add my op-  best disc
> i've bought this year, great name (hey- at least it has a literary origin).
>  I strongly recommend this, but it isnt for everyone.  Unfortunately, my
> boyfriend agrees with the previous post.  Their first disc is also said to be
> excellent and has jimi shields playing drums on it.
>
> jennifer in atlanta (2 weeks to the Olympics - HELP ME!!!)

me, too!  Greg in atlanta (who has to get to work on the GA Tech campus!!)

how will I get out to buy cd's?

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:45:43 -0400
From: Roy Burns (RBNRy@AOL.COM)
Subject: Mary Maggie O'Hara


Hellooo.

Not really sure about the details on this, but the Mary Margaret O'Hara's
genius LP "Miss America" is finally getting a domestic reissue (read U.S)
sometime later this summer (this is the album that features "Help Me Lift You
Up"-the T.M.C. covered dittie).

As well, there is a fairly new release by a band called the Henrys on
Bar/None entitled "Puerto Angel" that features Miss O'Hara's vocals on 4 of
the albums 13 songs, one of those being an O'Hara-penned tune. This album is
worth it for these songs if you like this coo-coo lady.

For those more in the know than me, what else has this schizoid songbird
released? I must have it all.

Bye.

Roy

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:09:57 +0600
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Velour 100 review

              04:49:23 -0700

>   Good work, cz!

Wow!    Thanks.

-cz

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:38:46 -0500
From: mark & sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: virgina astley


hello all,

about once a year, i think, "where's virginia astley?"  i love the
three albums i have by her, the last of which came out 10 years ago.
has she recorded anything since hope in a darkened heart?

the last reference i saw to her was in the acknowledgements in the
latest locust cd, truth is born of arguments, which isn't
surprising, since it sounds exactly like from gardens where we feel
secure...

any news is good news

also, a complete discography would be nice.  i have from gardens,
hope, and promise nothing.  anyone know of anything else?

thanks and take care,
mark
--
while she's in lace and feathers, i'm the one in clumsy shoes. pram.

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:32:24 -0500
From: mark & sarah (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: For sale: old 4AD stuff (update)


due to a mistake on another list i=B9m on (thanks zappo), my mailbox =

filled up with mail and all my recent correspondence was lost.  so, =

i=B9m going to post this again, with more details this time.  thanks =

and sorry for the double post.

here=B9s what i have for sale (all vinyl):


this mortal coil (bad 310)

lonely is an eyesore (cad 703)



throwing muses (cad 607)


please make offers on whatever you want.  also, i=B9d be up for =


(vinyl or cd, cd preferred) and anything by pram before helium =

(especially iron lung and gash).  also, colossal youth by young =

marble giants (cd).  =


everything=B9s in excellent condition except * which is in good =

condition (a few pops on the vinyl)

thanks,
mark
-- =

while she's in lace and feathers, i'm the one in clumsy shoes. pram.

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:58:14 -0400
From: Gregory Lawrence Smith (gt7003b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU)
Subject: Caroline Crawley


Okay, my 4AD friends, I have a question...

Caroline Crawley of Shelleyan Orphan appeared on 1991's TMC Blood.  What
connection, if any does she have to 4AD, or is she just someone that Ivo
liked?  But more importantly, does anyone know what she has been up to
lately?  It has been over 4 years since the last Shelleyan Orphan lp
(humroot).

thanks.

-greg

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:47:47 EDT
From: Dez (100702.123@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Subject: Cathal Coughlan / Trembling Blue Stars


Cathal Coughlan - Grand Necropolitan (Kitchenware)
My favourite misanthropist takes time out from The Fatima Mansions to release
his first solo album, but to all intents and purposes, it could quite easily be
a Fatimas record. It brims with the trademark Coughlan vitriol, and musically
covers all bases from Scott Walker-esque ballads, to extremely angry industrial
rock. The last LP, Lost In The Former West, was a bit too bombastic for its own
good, to the extent that a lot of the lyrics (which are always worth careful
listening) were buried beneath a primal howl that became a little too
relentless. Whilst there's plenty of bitter noiseplay here, there's also a lot
more variation. Eerin Go Braghag is a funny, twisted tale of an Irish immigrant
to the US escaping the law by fleeing across to Mexico in the company of a beast
born of genetic experimentation. We Are The Sinister World Government, Angry
White Snail and Free And Worthless are as spite-filled as their titles suggest,
but Unbroken Ones and The Last Lamplighter are tinged with real melancholy. A
cracking album, then, from a true individual - contemptuous of everything
deserving contempt, but not at all without compassion.

Trembling Blue Stars - Her Handwriting (Shinkansen)
To be honest, the thought of an entire LP about the real break-up of a
relationship made me cringe. So I had severe misgivings about this record, even
though I was an avid Field Mice fan. There's a very thin line between melancholy
and maudlin self-pity. Someone like Leonard Cohen can get away with outrageous
doom and gloom at times, whereas someone like Trent Reznor you just want to slap
and tell to grow up. On the whole, though, Bob Wratten stays the right side of
self-piteous whining, and instead delivers an hour of poignant music. It's not
without the odd laugh either - "I'd never thought we'd end up fighting each
other / but then again, do people ever", a nice piece of self-mocking.
Musically, the album is a real treat, and there are many moments of pure beauty.
Too many highlights to mention. I hope, though, that Bob's got this out of his
system now - another record like this (lyrically) would be pushing it. Another
one like this musically would be just fine.

What else? Got the Oval mixes of Tortoise, but so far have just looked at it.
Born Slippy is straight in at number 2 in the UK charts - whoah!

I see there's another little spat going on. At least the recent Cocteau's one
which I inadvertently helped fuel (I was trying to be diplomatic, honest!) had
some relevance to what this list is about, and didn't degenerate into stupid
name-calling. I wish you fuckers would do that sort of thing in private. It's
not a spectator sport that I'm particularly interested in.

Finally, does anybody know whether 4AD are releasing the first Gus Gus album, or
is it new material they have lined up? Either way, I honestly think that they're
a band who really might rekindle the enthusiasms of some of you more jaded
old-timers out there. Potentially they could be the most exciting signing since
The Pixies and the Muses (although, like they were at the time, radically
different)

- Dez

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:44:12 -0500
From: creeping jenny (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: important update: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, etc.) (fwd)


hello,

due to a problem with one of the lists i'm on, my mailbox was filled up
last night and my friendly sysadministrator deleted a large chunk of my
mailbox.  in the process, all my mail from the past few days has been
lost.  if you responded to this post, and have not reveived the list,
please reply again and i'll get the list right out to you.

thanks for your patience and sorry for the repeated post...

mark

also i have organic cloud for sale.


i have a for sale list, including some older fax, analogue bubblebath 3,
aphex twin's on singles, and lots more, some vinyl, but mostly cd.

email me for the complete list.

thanks,

mark

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 14:54:03 -0700
From: noisegirl (kelli@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 yawn


> Look Nosegirl...
       ~~~~~~~~
  oh, you are SO funny. or is that another one of your typos? hard to
  tell with your posts, y'know...

> when Elvia got on the 4ad list he started attacking her out
> of the fucking blue.

  i'm sure there was a reason for such an "attack". commenting on something
  that someone posts doesn't necessarily mean it is an attack, or "flame" {to
  coin generic internet geek lexicon}. it's a natural part of interaction
  between people, whether their views are the same or different. institutions
  of higher learning devote a fair amount of money and time to the spirit
  of _debate_...

> I have friends who are on this list that have
> mentioned the same thing on their persons.

  doesn't say much for your friends, does it? :) just as i wrote above,
  there is probably a good reason for such comments...

> Since einexile is such an ass,
> he will be treated as such.

  the same can be said of you.

> When he learns diplomacy, I will be nice to
> him. When he attack others, I will attack him.

  so now you are the great defender? ready to take on e by a single
  bound... this should be good. anyone want to write a "graphic novel"
  based solely on the goings on between elvia/fred and e? :)

> Actually there are two other
> fellow apostles of einexile that I have a problem with...but they're not as
> rude and obnoxious as einexile.

  e has apostles?
  you seem to have a problem with anyone who does not agree with you.
  your last name wouldn't be yochim, would it? :)

> If you like his behavior so be it....but
> your not on the receiving end are you?

  i have been. i'm not a fairweather friend, and neither is e. if he
  wishes to chew me out, i won't hate him for it. i may not like or
  accept what he has to say, but i do have the utmost respect for him
  and i do let him voice his opinions because they are *his opinions*.
  just because he doesn't adore hnia the way i do, or think lovesliescrushing
  are unbelievably gorgeous doesn't mean i must wreak havoc on him.
  sure, i can mockingly hate him..tell him he's a big meanie and has no
  taste, but i'll still consider him one of my "bestest" friends.
  his "behaviour" makes him unique. if we were all on each other's
  good sides 100% of the time, life would be very monotonous and dull.

> It's real simple. All he has to do is treat people with respect.....like
> everyone else on this list.

  do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


  regards,
  kelli-jeanne

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:30:28 -0700
From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Caroline Crawley


> Caroline Crawley of Shelleyan Orphan appeared on 1991's TMC Blood.  What
> connection, if any does she have to 4AD, or is she just someone that Ivo
> liked?

She's just someone whom Ivo liked, beautiful voices addict
that he is, so he invited her to be on Blood.

Shelleyan Orphan broke up years ago after Humroot was released.
Not in any particular order, Caroline ran off with drummer Boris
from the Cure, appeared on Spiritualised's Pure Phase album, played
one show with at least two members of the Cure at the 13 Year Itch as Ether,
Ether went nowhere after that one show, and god knows what she,
not to mention Jemaur Tayle, are up to now.

The discography is pretty simple, three albums, three EPs, a
promo sampler, and
a small scattering of compilation tracks that are impossible
to track down. All the EPs have non-album tracks, and all comp
songs are unique as well. The first two albums have some major
differences between the US and UK releases, which I've posted
here numerous times before. I'll compile a discography and post it
if people aren't sick to death of hearing about them.

All it took was one viewing of the Shatter video and I was
hooked for life...

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:16:31 -0700
From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: virgina astley


> about once a year, i think, "where's virginia astley?"

ONLY once a year? It's a constant question for me.
The good news is I have a friend at Rough Trade who
contacted her for me, and she's supposed to be getting in
touch with me soon for an interview.  She also has a new album
due out any day now, so there's plenty of hope that all of our
questions and desires will be satisfied very soon.

> three albums i have by her, the last of which came out 10 years ago.
> has she recorded anything since hope in a darkened heart?

Yes. She had an album a few years ago called All Shall Be Well.
It came out on a Japanese label, which seems to be the only place
you can get her material these days. Everything else is out of
print, even Hope In A Darkened Heart on Geffen and the stuff on
Rough Trade. Virginia Astley is one of those special artists
who's earned a permanent place in my heart, and as a result
I've put together a complete discography, which follows:

Virginia Astley Discography
[Please send any corrections or additions to Brant Nelson
nelson@astro.ucla.edu]

She Stood Up And Cried
1981    ??      TWI 050 Belgium - Crepuscule
I know little about this, probably it's a single.
It was never released, and I think it was solo piano only.

Love's A Lonely Place To Be
1982    7"      WFI 001 UK - Why Fi
Love's A Lonely Place To Be / Soaring
1982    12"     WFIT 001        UK - Why Fi
Love's A Lonely Place To Be / Soaring /
A Summer Long Since Passed /
It's Too Hot To Sleep

A Bao A Qu
1982    10"     WHY D8  UK - Why Fi
We Will Meet Them Again / Arctic Death / Angels Crying
/ Sanctus

>From Gardens Where We Feel Secure
1983    LP      Rough 58/HA 001 UK - Rough Trade/Happy Valley
With My Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming / A Summer Long
Since Past / From Gardens Where We Feel Secure / Hiding
In The Ha-Ha / Out On The Lawn I Lie In Bed / Too Bright
For Peacocks / Summer Of Their Dreams / When The
Fields Were On Fire / It's Too Hot To Sleep
1989    CD      CY-4457 Japan - Nippon Columbia
[complete track listing from the 1982 LP, plus the song 'Sanctus' and
the Melt The Snow EP]

Promise Nothing
1983    LP      TWI-### Belgium - Crepuscule
We Will Meet Them Again / Arctic Death / Angels Crying
/ Sanctus / Love's A Lonely Place To Be / Soaring (version)
/ Futility / A Summer Long Since Passed / It's Too Hot To
Sleep
1983    LP      ???     UK - WEA
1983    CS      WYF5 14 Canada - Why Fi
 re-issued with the artwork from the 1982 7"

Melt The Snow
1984    12"     RTT 158/HA 002  UK - Rough Trade/Happy Valley
(tracks not labeled)
Melt The Snow / ? / The End Of Time
Jocelyn Pook]

'I Live In Dreams'
1984    CS      PS 002  UK - Pleasantly Surprised
on Pleasantly Surprised compilation "State Of Affairs"
(later recorded as the song 'Shadows Will Fall Behind')

'Futility'
1984    CS      ???     UK - NME
on an NME sampler tape under the name
 "Ravishing Beauties" which as far as I know is the
same lineup as for the Melt The Snow EP

'Waiting To Fall'
1985    LP/CS   TAPE1   UK - Some Bizarre
on compilation from the Some Bizarre label titled
"If You Can't Please Yourself You Can't Please Your Soul"

Tender
1985    7"      ???
Tender / ???
1985    12"     EKR 21 T        UK - Elektra/WEA
Tender / Mindless Days / Tender
(instrumental) / A Long Time Ago
(existence of a UK 7" is unknown; I have seen a Japanese 7")

Darkness Has Reached Its End
1985    12"     YZ 53T  UK - WEA
Darkness Has Reached Its End /
Shadows Will Fall Behind / Darkness Has Reached Its End
/ The End Of Time

(Le Song) A Day, A Night
1986    12"     ???     UK - WEA
(Le Song) A Day, A Night / ???
[I have never seen this]

Hope In A Darkened Heart
1987    LP      WX78    UK - WEA
Some Small Hope / A Father / So Like Dorian / I'm Sorry /
Tree Top Club / Charm / Love's A Lonely Place To Be
(version) / A Summer Long Since Passed (version) /
Darkness Has Reached Its End (version) ['versions' are
completely re-recorded from the originals]
1987    LP/CD   24184   US - Geffen
[both vinyl and CD now out of print;
to date this remains the only US release she's had]

Some Small Hope
1987    12"     YZ107 T UK - WEA
Some Small Hope / A Summer Long
Since Passed / So Like Dorian (instrumental)

All Shall Be Well
1992    CD      COCY-9661       Japan - Nippon Columbia
My Smallest Friend / All Shall Be Well / You Take Me Away /
I Live For The Day / Love's Eloquence / Although I Know /
Martin / Blue Sky, White Sky / How I Miss You /
My Smallest Friend (instrumental)

Other Stuff:
with Victims Of Pleasure
        7" When You're Young / If I Was / Sporting
        Pastimes
        7" + 12" Slave To Fashion / On The Game
        music only

with Anne Clark
        has appeared with her on a variety of recordings;
        music only

with Skids
        on the album Joy; music only

as The Dream Makers
        appears on the Crepuscle compilation From Brussels
        With Love; vocals with some male singer and also playing piano
        background music for an interview with Marguerite Duras

with Pete Townshend
        plays piano on "Slit Skirts"; Virginia's sister, Karen Astley
        is married to Pete Townshend

with Richard Jobson
        on The Ballad Of Etiquette; musical contributions only,
        most notably a version of "We Will Meet Them Again";
        most of this album is unlistenably pretentious poetry
        readings by Jobson

with Kate St. John
        she was on that 1995 album, called something like
        Indescribable Night.



|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:27:22 -0700
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 yawn


At 2:54 PM 7/7/96, noisegirl wrote:
>> Look Nosegirl...
>       ~~~~~~~~
>  oh, you are SO funny. or is that another one of your typos? hard to
>  tell with your posts, y'know...
>
>> when Elvia got on the 4ad list he started attacking her out
>> of the fucking blue.
>
>  i'm sure there was a reason for such an "attack". commenting on something
>  that someone posts doesn't necessarily mean it is an attack, or "flame" {to
>  coin generic internet geek lexicon}. it's a natural part of interaction
>  between people, whether their views are the same or different. institutions
>  of higher learning devote a fair amount of money and time to the spirit
>  of _debate_...

Bbbbbbbe real. The he/she/it (einexile) is a mean geek. Stop making excuses
for your future husband/wife/amoeba...nosegirl.


>> Since einexile is such an ass,
>> he will be treated as such.

>  the same can be said of you.

Oh, i'm so hurt. Oh, by the way, I spell perfectly fine...especial the word
"WRITE" or do you spell it right...i'm sorry, I live in a cosmopolitan
area, not up their in the back mountains - we have running water.
>
>> When he learns diplomacy, I will be nice to
>> him. When he attack others, I will attack him.
>
>  so now you are the great defender? ready to take on e by a single
>  bound... this should be good. anyone want to write a "graphic novel"
>  based solely on the goings on between elvia/fred and e? :)
>
Called it "Justice For All"

>> It's real simple. All he has to do is treat people with respect.....like
>> everyone else on this list.
>
>  do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Him/her/it first.:)  Let e speak for himself for once. He knows the type of
behavior I am talking about. Let him/her/it speak...if he/she/it has a
mouth.

Have a nice day nosegirl.  How many days before going back go high
school...wahwahwah.

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:37:31 -0700
From: noisegirl (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 yawn


> Bbbbbbbe real. The he/she/it (einexile) is a mean geek. Stop making excuses
> for your future husband/wife/amoeba...nosegirl.

  more assumptions. how typical.
  e is a he, i am a girl who loves noise music and has
  a perfect nose, and i make no excuses...just valid points. however, if
  that's how you wish to perceive me & e...so be it. but that's very
  rude. i think you are the one with the big ego, not e....

> Oh, i'm so hurt. Oh, by the way, I spell perfectly fine...especial the word
> "WRITE" or do you spell it right...i'm sorry, I live in a cosmopolitan
> area, not up their in the back mountains - we have running water.

  you make the mistake, i point it out, then you try to pin it on me? did
  i write your e-mail? and what's this lame shit with the "back mountains"
  and you living in a "cosmopolitan area"? you still have a spelling
  deficiency, regardless of where you live, cosmoboy.

> Him/her/it first.:)  Let e speak for himself for once. He knows the type of
> behavior I am talking about. Let him/her/it speak...if he/she/it has a
> mouth.

  he does speak for himself. then you don't like it. then you publically
  post about how you don't like what he has to say. i've read some of your
  stuff from the ambient list. i'm well aware of what sort of person you are.
  intelligent? perhaps. but do you use it to your advantage? i don't
  think so. the more you post, the more you humiliate yourself..here or
  on any other list. keep it up, cosmo...

> Have a nice day nosegirl.  How many days before going back go high
> school...wahwahwah.

  once again, that wry wit of yours has me in stitches. you are definately
  the next big thing. jim carrey, look out. step off, robin williams.
  here comes elvia/fred... hbo needs to give you a spot after dennis
  miller.


  i have an HS reunion next year, so it's not that long 'til i "go back"...
  or is that "going back go"? :)


  *kelli-jeanne*

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 23:46:26 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges


Various people write:
>
>> Right now, I can't even think of any bands who've been around that long.
>> Oh yeah, Status fucking Quo!  I feel like there must be more credible
>> groups who've been around for at least a decade but changed less, but I
>> can't think of them.  Anyone else?  Actually, what about The Wedding
>> Present?
>
>The Wedding Present and Status Quo have probably changed less, yes.
>of that have been going for ten years (Throwing Muses, The Wolfgang
>Press, Coil, Richard Kirk, Dead Can Dance, etc, etc) have changed in
>rather drastic ways...

Was the artist known as Morrisey really around for over 10 years? I somehow
thought he was fronting a band called the Smiths during part of that time?

Carol Coney
>

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:16:57 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: generic elvia post v 1.0 yawn


Why do we have to hash this personal name calling out in public?
If the debate is relavant to the list, besides who has the biggest ego
(which seems to be a dead heat amongst most 4ad-heads), then fine....
but who wants to read all this vitriol that is just name calling?

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:00:51 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive


I'm fairly new to this list, and kinda on-again off-again due to
overwhelming mailbox load.

However, I would like to hear from any fans of His Name Is Alive (either
e-mailed to me privately or posted to the group) re: the sound of the band,
the members, etc. I must admit seeing the name I think it would be a
Christian band...am I right or wrong about this? Not that I have anything
against Christians, per se, but I generally don't go to concerts by bands
working within that genre.

His Name Is Alive will be playing in Atlanta in August, and I'm wondering
should I re-arrange some travel plans (do-able at this date) to stick around
to see this band.

I like Cocteau Twins & DCD, and recently found Scheer & Mojave 3 (oft
mentioned in this list) in used CD bins & like em quite a bit. So am curious
about His Name etc.

Thanks,

Carol Coney

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:00:51 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: various stuff: Area/Lush/Rollerskate Skinny/etc


At 15:29 7/7/96 +0000, you wrote:
>> << i like the name rollerskate skinny and 'horsedrawn wishes'even more so,
>> but i
>>  hated the cd.  go figure.
>>   >>
>> ok if we are going to continue this thread, then i'll add my op-  best disc
>> i've bought this year, great name (hey- at least it has a literary origin).
>>  I strongly recommend this, but it isnt for everyone.  Unfortunately, my
>> boyfriend agrees with the previous post.  Their first disc is also said to be
>> excellent and has jimi shields playing drums on it.
>>
>> jennifer in atlanta (2 weeks to the Olympics - HELP ME!!!)
>
>me, too!  Greg in atlanta (who has to get to work on the GA Tech campus!!)
>
>how will I get out to buy cd's?

Me too...argh...3 mi. from Stone Mountain venue & traffic snarls/even wrecks
when lanes change in Snellville will create utter chaos. For me it's
splitsville from July 27-Aug 5...but then I have to go out to the
airport...argh!!!HELP ME!

Carol in S'ville
>

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:15:44 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges


At 11:50 7/5/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Dez wrote (all emphasis mine):
>
>>I think you're choosing to ignore the fact that a
>>good QUARTER of all posts here seem to be concerned with all things
>>Cocteau
>>...
>>people who simply cannot
>>understand how this dismally ordinary music gets so DEIFIED
>>...
>>But really,
>>if you lay on the hyperbole
>>...
>>you're asking to be SHOT DOWN IN
>>FLAMES.
>
>Hee hee hee, what was that about "hyperbole"?!
>
>Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>
>>Simon Hughes  writes:
>>
>>> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>>>
>>> >Uhm.  Are you talking about the Cocteau Twins?  Really?  Who've
>>> >basically made exactly the same album nine times now?
>>>
>>> Hey Lars, are you trolling?!
>>
>>I was perhaps overstating my case *slightly*.
>
>No hyperbole there :-).  Or can hyperbole be understatement as well as
>overstatement?
>
>>> Yeah, I just can't tell my Blood Bitch from my Evangeline.  It's soooo
>>> embarrassing when I want to play the CTs to my grandmother and I
>>> accidentally put the one on instead of the other.
>>
>
>Don't laugh, you don't have to hear her railing against "this new age shit"!
>
>>But can you really tell the difference between T/EiaSB/BBK/HoLV/M&K?
>
>Yes ... ish.  But, personally, I'd agree that there's not too much
>progression between Treasure and HoLV (I can't really speak for M&K).
>Interesting list for what you left out as much as anything else.  4CC did
>mark a (unwanted!)  progression for me and I note the non-appearance of
>Victorialand and Head Over Heels.  I used to have big arguments about the
>latter with a pal of mine.  Everyone agrees that Garlands was a singular
>CTs album but we used to argue over whether HOH was closer to Garlands or
>Treasure.  I claimed that Garlands was so doom-laden and harsh that HOH had
>to be closer to Treasure.  Maybe in a concrete musical sense HOH was closer
>to Garlands but its atmosphere and feel is so much lighter to me.
>
>In a later post, Lars wrote:
>
>>Cocteau Twins have made (and continue to make) good music.  It's all
>>very samey, though.  (The same could be said for a number of bands,
>>but CT are extreme in this regard.  In fact, I'm hard-pressed to come
>>up with a single band that have developed less during the last ten
>>years.
>
>Right now, I can't even think of any bands who've been around that long.
>Oh yeah, Status fucking Quo!  I feel like there must be more credible
>groups who've been around for at least a decade but changed less, but I
>can't think of them.  Anyone else?  Actually, what about The Wedding
>Present?
>
>>Perhaps Kitchens of Distinction would fit the bill.)
>
>Another group who, to my mind, did change after a few early records, but
>only by blanding out.
>
>Simon Hughes

Sorry to make everyone read the entire thread again...but I wanted to
respond to the comment that the writer couldn't think of any band that
developed less than CT over the past ten years.

How about: U-2, REM, Smiths (all "alternative" bands I've liked but who
haven't changed much over the years)? For that matter, are you just talking
about 4AD/thislisty bands? Cause Lush (are they 10 years old?) don't seem to
"develop" much, IMHO. What do you mean by "develop" anyway?  I think it's
all related to a music lover's  perspectives on the creative process, as
well as her/his own fondness (or not) for a degree of "sameness" from a
band, as well as their prejudices toward certain bands. Just so many factors
come into it...hey, but it's fun to debate it all, right?

Carol Coney (weighing in again, but refusing to engage in flame war)
>

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 18:49:40 -0700
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: SnoozeGirl and no more flaming on my part.


I will stop flaming. I see people are getting a little bit upset about
using up valuable bandwidth.
Snoozegirl really needs to learn how to spell. Dear god. I need to learn
how to proof-read my e-mails before they go out. I'm a little quick on the
trigger.

As for einexile. He will still be obnoxious and I am still going to TRY to
put him in his place...equals amongst the tribe - 4ad.

Fred "Ending the Flame War" Collins

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:50:02 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins


At 02:11 7/5/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Simon Hughes  writes:
>
>> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>>
>> >Uhm.  Are you talking about the Cocteau Twins?  Really?  Who've
>> >basically made exactly the same album nine times now?
>>
>> Hey Lars, are you trolling?!
>
>I was perhaps overstating my case *slightly*.
>
>> Yeah, I just can't tell my Blood Bitch from my Evangeline.  It's soooo
>> embarrassing when I want to play the CTs to my grandmother and I
>> accidentally put the one on instead of the other.
>
>
>But can you really tell the difference between T/EiaSB/BBK/HoLV/M&K?
>Except that the drum machine sounds progressively less cheesy?
>
>Holding up CT as Paragons of Change sounds a bit odd to me.  They have
>two phases -- Goth Punk People v. Dreamy Swirly People.  Not much
>development in either phase.
>
>--
>(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
>  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Oh, stop, already. No one called CT "Paragons of Change"...this is getting
REALLY childish! You're entitled to your opinion, but please stop making
things up...it makes you sound rather stupid and ill-intended.

Carol
>

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 22:36:10 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: The Kelley Deal 6000


The Kelley Deal 6000
"Go To The Sugar Altar"

There were some who had doubts about Kelley's admittedly limited musical
abilities (remember the video for "Shocker In Gloomtown" and her one note
guitar part?).  Have your doubts shattered by her very musical solo bow
on U.S. indie Nice Records -- now licenced by Mercury/Polydor for release
in Canada July 24th.   Joined by drummer Nick Hook, bassist Marty Nedich
and guitarist Steve Salett, Deal's 6000 will drive-thru Canada later this
month...  (as written by Gerry Vogel at Mercury/Polydor)

Jeff Keibel
Toronto, ON
CANADA

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:50:03 GMT
From: "C.K. Coney" (ckc.atlanta@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins (was Spiritchaser)

At 05:36 7/5/96 +0000, you wrote:
>"C.K. Coney"  writes:
>
>> I totally disagree with you re: Cocteau Twins, who you obviously refer to
>> here. They have evolved over the years, each album has a totally different
>> sound from the next,
>> and now with Robin's interest in Seefeel/Mark Clifford's ideas, have
>> gotten into a more minimalist, techno groove with the EP
>> "Otherness".
>
>I should make clear that my offhanded stab at the Cocteau Twins referred
>only to their most recent album, Milk and Kisses.  Months ago, I was
>wondering why I was finding excuses for leaving the room every time I put
>this on, as the album makes nods to their last three albums, each of which
>I enjoyed, and each of which had a distinguishable sound (Lars just isn't
>paying attention any more).  Einexile pinned it down for me: whereas the
>Twins pursued their own tangent and sounded involved on the disappointing
>Four Calander Cafe, Milk & Kisses, in following wholly in the lead of the
>three preceeding albums, sounds like a gesture of apology for
>straying.  Maybe I've become jaded, but M&K sounds like a meticulous
>imitation of the Cocteau Twins, a descent into product.  Generic.  It
>indeed sounds beautiful at first, but I would suggest that Twinlights is
>where their heart of hearts is.
>
>As for Otherness, it's a great Seefeel release with guest Frazier vocals,
>about as much Cocteau Twins as Medicine's "Time Baby 3".  (I finally
>picked up Seefeel's "Starethrough" EP, which is song for song the best
>thing Clifford et al. have released, and sonically a sister to Otherness.)
>
>What would like to hear from the Cocteaus?  I'd like to hear an album from
>them which conveys that they listen to something other than the masters
>they've been smuggling out of the 4AD offices and the fan commentary on
>their web-page.  Liz Frazier's intelligible (on FCC) lyrics suggests she
>should burn all of her self-help books, but her rendition of "Song to the
>Siren" on the first This Mortal Coil indicates potential as a great song
>stylist.  How about something off the wall?  Their favorite Billy
>Holliday songs, whatever...
>
>d s roy

I agree and disagree with you on various points that you can probably guess at.

As for yer question "what would (sic) like to hear from the Cocteaus?" Well,
I too like the bluesy Liz, and I did love "Song to the Siren"! She has great
vocal styling skills...damn good for a white chick!

Did you get to see CT during the recent tour? They did an unreleased song
called "Green" (aka "Touch Upon Touch") that's in this bluesy vein...I liked
it alot as it really showcases the lower end of Liz's amazing range. I would
hope they go in this direction, tho I do also like the minimalist
instrumental stylings of "Otherness" (and I think it's also funky/soulful as
well). I have no problem with CT collaborating with Mark Clifford or This
Mortal Coil or anyone...it's their perogative to create with whomever they
want, whatever they want. And I'll most certainly acquire the end product
after too long a wait...my only problem with CT is: too much time passes
between releases!

Carol
>

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 19:17:28 PST
From: "Martin A. HOYT" (MAHOYT@UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: Yet more on the great Cocteau purges

Carol wrote:

>How about: U-2, REM, Smiths (all "alternative" bands I've liked but who
>haven't changed much over the years)?

Ack!!!  What do mean by "changed"?  Take U2 (very briefly) as a nonlisty
example and listen to Joshua Tree and Zooropa and tell me there is no change
in the approach to music!  If you mean they still play guitar/bass/drums-
based music, sure, there is not much change.

>For that matter, are you just talking about 4AD/thislisty bands? Cause Lush
>(are they 10 years old?) don't seem to "develop" much, IMHO.

If going from a dreamy, wall-of-guitar sound to the their more stripped
down, current production approach is "development" to you, then yes they
have developed.  If you listen to Scar, however, one might attribute the
shoegazer (I hate that term) guitar to Robin Guthrie, so I see your point.

>What do you mean by "develop" anyway?

Aye, there's the rub...

>I think it's all related to a music lover's  perspectives on the creative
>process, as well as her/his own fondness (or not) for a degree of
>"sameness" from a band, as well as their prejudices toward certain bands.

Yeah, and when a band ceases to make music we are interested in, we often
turn up the magnification a notch.  I certainly know I'm guilty of this with
regards to CT.  It's a Catch-22, I want something that affects me like, say
"From the Flagstones", but if they wrote that song again I'd be
disappointed.

I mean if we took this thread to one of its possible ridiculous extremes, we
could conclude that rock (a category alot of thislisty music falls into
really) hasn't really changed that much since Bill Haley and the Comets "Rock
Around the Clock", so why bother?

Sorry if this seems kind of random...

Martin
mahoyt@uci.edu

Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 20:08:10 -0700
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: generic jb post v 1.0 frown

On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Joseph Burns wrote:

> Why do we have to hash this personal name calling out in public?
> If the debate is relavant to the list, besides who has the biggest ego
> (which seems to be a dead heat amongst most 4ad-heads), then fine....
> but who wants to read all this vitriol that is just name calling?

No one whose hands shake and stomach gets woozy when other people argue
around him, I guess. Sorry about that old sport. Did you feel better
after you forced me to read your silly sermon and upset me? Now look what
you've done; I went and sprained a tendon in my eye.

Don't pretend to be soft spoken. It's not a debate, it's a flame war.
Your job is to feign incredulity and outrage and make bitter remarks
about the maturity level on this mailing list. By asking other
subscribers what they think, you've missed the whole point.

 e

erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 7-7-1996