4ad-l Mail for 07-05-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 23:42:00 CDT
From: Stratton Davis (stratt@E-TEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 07:01:07 +0200
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen (larsi@IFI.UIO.NO)
Subject: Cocteau Twins (was Spiritchaser)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 00:36:59 -0500
From: Darryl Stephen Roy (dsroy@OWLNET.RICE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 01:04:00 CDT
From: Stratton Davis (stratt@E-TEX.COM)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 01:14:07 -0500
From: Lebron (pepegtc@HALCON.LAGUNA.UAL.MX)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 06:42:55 GMT
From: "Mr. Rex Lloyd" (rexual@WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: DCD Songlist
Date: 04/07/96 22:59
From: Paul Walsh (Paul.Walsh@PETROLITE.CO.UK)
Subject: Mojave 3 = Slowdive; get over it!
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 00:52:42 -0700
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges
Date: 05/07/96 08:29
From: Paul Walsh (Paul.Walsh@PETROLITE.CO.UK)
Subject: spiritchaser-1st impressions
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 05:22:25 -0400
From: Lush Muse (Lushmuse@AOL.COM)
Subject: The great Cocteau purges
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:50:56 BST
From: Simon Hughes (tcssph@AIE.LREG.CO.UK)
Subject: y'all are fucked up
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 07:02:45 -0700
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: GBW 285L
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:14:29 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, 4ad, etc.)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:10:54 -0500
From: mark frank (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, 4ad, etc.)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:51:29 +0200
From: Grant Goodes (ggo@CSD.CRI.DK)
Subject: Re: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, 4ad, etc.)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:58:53 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:16:41 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:28:11 EDT
From: Dez (100702.123@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Subject: This Rimy Ltd. - Sometime
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:33:17 -0700
From: Layne McLean (laynemc@SNOWCREST.NET)
Subject: FS: Rollerskate Skinny
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:12:40 -0700
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Spiritchasing The Cocteau Twins
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:13:56 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: The Great Spangled 4ad Purges
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:05:39 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: "=AO".............................................................
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:11:04 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: Re: (#47) great Cocteau purges/ plug your eyes red
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:52:11 -0400
From: Srilank@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: (#47) great Cocteau purges/ plug your eyes red
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:05:45 -0700
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 23:42:00 CDT
From: Stratton Davis (stratt@E-TEX.COM)
Subject: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser


At 04:17 AM 7/5/96 +0200, Lars wrote:

>Stratton Davis  writes:
>
>> What a crass statement.  Are you talking about the same band?  Sure there
>> are similarities between certain albums(you will find this to be true of
>> many bands; and ALSO indicative of evolution)...but to say that each and
>> every album is exactly the same???
>
>They've gotten better drum machines.  That's as far as it goes in the
>musical development area since, say, 1987.
>

Well, I certainly disagree with you here as well.  But it seems pointless to
argue with you.

>> Get over it.  Those of you who are so damn anti-Cocteau Twins need
>> to move on out of your bitter states and find something else to talk
>> about.
>
>What makes you think I don't like CT?  I *adore* Treasure and BBK, and
>I like HoLV, and M&K sounds nice enough.
>

Someone who claims that the entire 9 album catalogue of a band's career is
exactly the same doesn't come off as a fan in my book....or one who has
really examined the discography.  If you dismiss each and every album as
either 'goth punk' or 'dreamy swirly' then all you are really doing is
stereotyping.


>> A person can't even mention the band in a positive way on this list
>> without invoking the wrath of some list god.
>
>Wrath?  List god?  What planet are you from?
>
>You held up CT as an example of a band that has changed greatly, and
>that's absurd.
>

We obviously perceive things on this list as differently as we perceive the
music of the Cocteau Twins.  Maybe my views are a bit more twisted since I
mainly lurk.  This is what I meant:

regards to the current music of the Cocteau Twins.

air of conceit and hyperbole, I might add.



So we have a faction of people on this list who like the current work of the
CT and think they are developing.  We also have a faction of people on this
list who don't think the Cocteau Twins are developing and/or making quality
music anymore.  And the two factions don't agree.  This argument is dead.
Let's just leave it there.

Stratton

.................
stratt@e-tex.com

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 07:01:07 +0200
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen (larsi@IFI.UIO.NO)
Subject: Re: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser


Stratton Davis  writes:

> Well, I certainly disagree with you here as well.  But it seems
> pointless to argue with you.

How would you know?

> Someone who claims that the entire 9 album catalogue of a band's career is
> exactly the same doesn't come off as a fan in my book....or one who has
> really examined the discography.  If you dismiss each and every album as
> either 'goth punk' or 'dreamy swirly' then all you are really doing is
> stereotyping.

cf.

> So we have a faction of people on this list who like the current work of the
> CT and think they are developing.  We also have a faction of people on this
> list who don't think the Cocteau Twins are developing and/or making quality
> music anymore.

Who's stereotyping here?

And why on Earth do you think "goth punk" and "dreamy swirly" are
dismissals?  Methinks that you have a severe inability to read for
content.  Try reading what's actually written instead of what you
imagine I've written.

Cocteau Twins have made (and continue to make) good music.  It's all
very samey, though.  (The same could be said for a number of bands,
but CT are extreme in this regard.  In fact, I'm hard-pressed to come
up with a single band that have developed less during the last ten
years.  Hm.  Perhaps Kitchens of Distinction would fit the bill.)

> We obviously perceive things on this list as differently as we perceive the
> music of the Cocteau Twins.  Maybe my views are a bit more twisted since I
> mainly lurk.  This is what I meant:
>
> WRATH: the constant stream of negative replies to any positive post made in
> regards to the current music of the Cocteau Twins.

1 (one) posting is a "constant stream of negative replies".  *titter*

> LISTGOD: those who make the majority of these negative posts with a certain
> air of conceit and hyperbole, I might add.

Sorry for oppressing you with my opinions.  HAND.

> This argument is dead.  Let's just leave it there.

There never was an argument.  You made a silly assertation.  I
corrected you.

HTH.

--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 00:36:59 -0500
From: Darryl Stephen Roy (dsroy@OWLNET.RICE.EDU)
Subject: Cocteau Twins (was Spiritchaser)


"C.K. Coney"  writes:

> I totally disagree with you re: Cocteau Twins, who you obviously refer to
> here. They have evolved over the years, each album has a totally different
> sound from the next,
> and now with Robin's interest in Seefeel/Mark Clifford's ideas, have
> gotten into a more minimalist, techno groove with the EP
> "Otherness".

I should make clear that my offhanded stab at the Cocteau Twins referred
only to their most recent album, Milk and Kisses.  Months ago, I was
wondering why I was finding excuses for leaving the room every time I put
this on, as the album makes nods to their last three albums, each of which
I enjoyed, and each of which had a distinguishable sound (Lars just isn't
paying attention any more).  Einexile pinned it down for me: whereas the
Twins pursued their own tangent and sounded involved on the disappointing
Four Calander Cafe, Milk & Kisses, in following wholly in the lead of the
three preceeding albums, sounds like a gesture of apology for
straying.  Maybe I've become jaded, but M&K sounds like a meticulous
imitation of the Cocteau Twins, a descent into product.  Generic.  It
indeed sounds beautiful at first, but I would suggest that Twinlights is
where their heart of hearts is.

As for Otherness, it's a great Seefeel release with guest Frazier vocals,
about as much Cocteau Twins as Medicine's "Time Baby 3".  (I finally
picked up Seefeel's "Starethrough" EP, which is song for song the best
thing Clifford et al. have released, and sonically a sister to Otherness.)

What would like to hear from the Cocteaus?  I'd like to hear an album from
them which conveys that they listen to something other than the masters
they've been smuggling out of the 4AD offices and the fan commentary on
their web-page.  Liz Frazier's intelligible (on FCC) lyrics suggests she
should burn all of her self-help books, but her rendition of "Song to the
Siren" on the first This Mortal Coil indicates potential as a great song
stylist.  How about something off the wall?  Their favorite Billy
Holliday songs, whatever...

d s roy


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 01:04:00 CDT
From: Stratton Davis (stratt@E-TEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser


At 07:01 AM 7/5/96 +0200, Lars wrote:


>Methinks that you have a severe inability to read for
>content.  Try reading what's actually written instead of what you
>imagine I've written

And methinks you have the same problem.


>
>There never was an argument.  You made a silly assertation.  I
>corrected you.
>

Errr, I believe the order of things was: YOU made a silly(to me)
assertation.  I corrected you.  I made a silly(to you) assertation.  You
corrected me.  Now you have made more silly assertations and I am correcting
you.  We could keep this up for days, but I've got better things to do.

Stratton
.................
stratt@e-tex.com

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 01:14:07 -0500
From: Lebron (pepegtc@HALCON.LAGUNA.UAL.MX)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges


>>What a crass statement.  Are you talking about the same band?  Sure there
>>are similarities between certain albums(you will find this to be true of
>>many bands; and ALSO indicative of evolution)...but to say that each and
>>every album is exactly the same???  Get over it.  Those of you who are so
>>damn anti-Cocteau Twins need to move on out of your bitter states and find
>>something else to talk about.  A person can't even mention the band in a
>>positive way on this list without invoking the wrath of some list god.
>>Hell, you would almost think that there should be something in the FAQ
>>warning all newcomers that pro-Cocteau Twins posts are not tolerated.
>>
>>Stratton
>
>Calm down, calm down. I think you're choosing to ignore the fact that a good
>quarter of all posts here seem to be concerned with all things Cocteau, most of
>which are gushing fan-like things. Perhaps it's this volume of stuff that gets
>the hackles up of people who simply cannot understand how this dismally
ordinary
>music gets so deified. But really, if you lay on the hyperbole, then really
>you're asking to be shot down in flames. I think most people on this list have
>some degree of affection for something that the band did in the past, but
it was
>all so long ago - when will Guthrie et al realise that this particular
horse has
>long since passed away?
>
>- Dez
>
>
*************************************************
'Just give me an easy life and a peaceful death.'
                               The Sundays
*************************************************


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 06:42:55 GMT
From: "Mr. Rex Lloyd" (rexual@WORLDNET.ATT.NET)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges


>..... I think most people on this list have
>some degree of affection for something that the band did in the past, but
it was
>all so long ago - when will Guthrie et al realise that this particular
horse has
>long since passed away?
>
>- Dez



    Hey now, I must disagree here.  Although it's likely us 4AD freaks are
more apt to hang onto our collection of old musik (from the 80's that shaped
our lives) than the average Meriah Carey fan (run away!), I don't believe we
go purchase their new albums in order to relive past experiences.  Nor do
any of us believe that 'Treasure II' is in the works (wouldn't that be..);
that maybe this is the album that's going to sound like 'they did in the past'.
     I personally think M&K is just as good as Pink Opaque and (get ready
for this one) that spiritchaser is just as good as Serpent's Egg (Listen to
track 8  and tell me what drug they were on).  And my, how
they've progressed beautifully!  In other words, I buy their discs because I
know it's going to be GOOD SHIT.. might be different good shit, might be new
and exciting or not shit.. It's certainly not worth all the debate (new vs.
old).  I, for one, could listen to Liz or Lisa gurgle mouthwash on the
toilet for an hour and think THAT was the answer!  And I'm willing to tell
it to world even if it is a 'gushing fan-like thing'.
     But what I do think is sad and what I do miss about 'the Treasure days'
is that freaks like you had not the slightest clue who/what any of this was
about and therefore could not spew such boring babble.





                                               there must have been dust on
those mints

    ~~~~~~~~
~rexual~

    ~~~~~~~~

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:21:00 GMT
From: Paul Walsh (Paul.Walsh@PETROLITE.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: DCD Songlist


     You'll be lucky if DCD continue to tour. The London show was cancelled
     due to 'ill-health'. I hope they re-schedule but I doubt they will,
     when it comes to playing shows in the UK we only get one (usually
     London) chance to see them. For us 'Northerners', 4AD's policy of
     promoting it's bands only in London is getting to be a bit annoying!
     But, I think 4AD do appear to be disappearing up their own arses
     recently anyhow - what happened to caring about your fans? (Re Mr.
     Perry's LP, Red House Painters, This Rimy River Ltd Edition, Kendra
     Smith.)

     I hope Ivo isn't going the same way as Mr. Anthony H Wilson did with
     Factory i.e. the label's bigger than the fans, and the director is
     bigger than the label!!!!


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: DCD Songlist

Date: 04/07/96 22:59 To the LUCKY ones who have attended the shows of DCD current tour: Which songs are they playing on this tour? I got tickets to the Mexico City show (aug 28, 5th row!), and I want to know what will i be expecting... this will be my 1st DCD concert. Gracias! Pepe ************************************************* 'Just give me an easy life and a peaceful death.' The Sundays *************************************************

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 00:52:42 -0700
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Mojave 3 = Slowdive; get over it!


On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Elvia M. Tarango wrote:

> At 1:59 PM 7/4/96, einexile the meek wrote:
> >On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, Elvia M. Tarango wrote:
> >
> >> e wish he could live in an area so beautiful and free of toxic life forms
> >> such as himself. Sadcore rrrrules!
> >
> >Are you talking about Berkeley?
>
> Of course. Berkeley is the epicenter of life as we know it.:)

That's funny, I thought it was a dirty crime-ridden left wing sinkhole. I
must have been thinking of San Fransisco. :) Ah well. *shrug*


 e

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 09:14:00 GMT
From: Paul Walsh (Paul.Walsh@PETROLITE.CO.UK)
Subject: Re[2]: The great Cocteau purges


     I think you've just made the point that explains why this war is
     raging over Spiritchaser (is it any good?) and Cocteaus (are they
     flogging a dead horse?). There are basically 2 types of 4AD fan -

     1. I buy what I like, just because it's on 4AD doesn't mean it's
     fantastic.

     2. I'll buy any old shite off 4AD because I'm a _FAN_! (re- Lisa and
     Liz gurgling with mouthwash).

     Well, there's a new type of fan emerging, and I'm one of them -

     3. I used to be a type 2 fan, but now I'm PISSED OFF with some of the
     shit 4AD are turning out!! Also, doesn't Ivo realise that he's losing
     some of his best bands while he's indulging other 'older' bands out of
     some misplaced debt to past greatness.

     I've bought 4AD since 1980, and yes, it is precious to me - there is a lot
     of history in my 4AD collection. BUT. I can't help feeling that the label
     is disappearing up it's own arse rapidly! (Don't forget the fate that was
     Factory Records!) There's much more interesting stuff out there at the
     moment - TeenBeat stuff, Tortoise, Ui, Fuxa etc.

     If there's anyone from 4AD reading these postings you'd better get your
     acts sorted out or this '4AD Freak' will be taking his business elsewhere!

     Oh, whatever happened to the Limited Edition 10" releases were we told
     about when the Mail Order thing started? Were these lies?


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges

Date: 05/07/96 08:29 >..... I think most people on this list have >some degree of affection for something that the band did in the past, but it was >all so long ago - when will Guthrie et al realise that this particular horse has >long since passed away? > >- Dez Hey now, I must disagree here. Although it's likely us 4AD freaks are more apt to hang onto our collection of old musik (from the 80's that shaped our lives) than the average Meriah Carey fan (run away!), I don't believe we go purchase their new albums in order to relive past experiences. Nor do any of us believe that 'Treasure II' is in the works (wouldn't that be..); that maybe this is the album that's going to sound like 'they did in the past'. I personally think M&K is just as good as Pink Opaque and (get ready for this one) that spiritchaser is just as good as Serpent's Egg (Listen to track 8 and tell me what drug they were on). And my, how they've progressed beautifully! In other words, I buy their discs because I know it's going to be GOOD SHIT.. might be different good shit, might be new and exciting or not shit.. It's certainly not worth all the debate (new vs. old). I, for one, could listen to Liz or Lisa gurgle mouthwash on the toilet for an hour and think THAT was the answer! And I'm willing to tell it to world even if it is a 'gushing fan-like thing'. But what I do think is sad and what I do miss about 'the Treasure days' is that freaks like you had not the slightest clue who/what any of this was about and therefore could not spew such boring babble. there must have been dust on those mints ~~~~~~~~ ~rexual~ ~~~~~~~~

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 05:22:25 -0400
From: Lush Muse (Lushmuse@AOL.COM)
Subject: spiritchaser-1st impressions


hey!

just barely got dcd's spiritchaser today and was not really impressed by my
first listen. i listened to it again this evening and it still didn't strike
me the way within the realm, the serpent's egg, and toward the within
did...it's ok for now but it may grow on me after each listen.

laters,
pete


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:50:56 BST
From: Simon Hughes (tcssph@AIE.LREG.CO.UK)
Subject: The great Cocteau purges

              <960704182652_100702.123_EHU51-1@CompuServe.COM>

Dez wrote (all emphasis mine):

>I think you're choosing to ignore the fact that a
>good QUARTER of all posts here seem to be concerned with all things
>Cocteau
>...
>people who simply cannot
>understand how this dismally ordinary music gets so DEIFIED
>...
>But really,
>if you lay on the hyperbole
>...
>you're asking to be SHOT DOWN IN
>FLAMES.

Hee hee hee, what was that about "hyperbole"?!

Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

>Simon Hughes  writes:
>
>> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>>
>> >Uhm.  Are you talking about the Cocteau Twins?  Really?  Who've
>> >basically made exactly the same album nine times now?
>>
>> Hey Lars, are you trolling?!
>
>I was perhaps overstating my case *slightly*.

No hyperbole there :-).  Or can hyperbole be understatement as well as
overstatement?

>> Yeah, I just can't tell my Blood Bitch from my Evangeline.  It's soooo
>> embarrassing when I want to play the CTs to my grandmother and I
>> accidentally put the one on instead of the other.
>

Don't laugh, you don't have to hear her railing against "this new age shit"!

>But can you really tell the difference between T/EiaSB/BBK/HoLV/M&K?

Yes ... ish.  But, personally, I'd agree that there's not too much
progression between Treasure and HoLV (I can't really speak for M&K).
Interesting list for what you left out as much as anything else.  4CC did
mark a (unwanted!)  progression for me and I note the non-appearance of
Victorialand and Head Over Heels.  I used to have big arguments about the
latter with a pal of mine.  Everyone agrees that Garlands was a singular
CTs album but we used to argue over whether HOH was closer to Garlands or
Treasure.  I claimed that Garlands was so doom-laden and harsh that HOH had
to be closer to Treasure.  Maybe in a concrete musical sense HOH was closer
to Garlands but its atmosphere and feel is so much lighter to me.

In a later post, Lars wrote:

>Cocteau Twins have made (and continue to make) good music.  It's all
>very samey, though.  (The same could be said for a number of bands,
>but CT are extreme in this regard.  In fact, I'm hard-pressed to come
>up with a single band that have developed less during the last ten
>years.

Right now, I can't even think of any bands who've been around that long.
Oh yeah, Status fucking Quo!  I feel like there must be more credible
groups who've been around for at least a decade but changed less, but I
can't think of them.  Anyone else?  Actually, what about The Wedding
Present?

>Perhaps Kitchens of Distinction would fit the bill.)

Another group who, to my mind, did change after a few early records, but
only by blanding out.

Simon Hughes


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 07:02:45 -0700
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: y'all are fucked up


I don't get it.

Half of the people are upset that a band has changed its style to
something less interesting, and the other half of you are all irked that
all their albums sound the same. This is not one conversation; this is
the entire history of this list. Who cares if it's the good ol Twins if
the writing is crap? Meanwhile many of us were all ticked off that Foul
Catheter Cave was a new age album, and completely overlooked and/or
dismissed some very well crafted and moving tunes.

Well I say you've all got your heads screwed on backwards.



        spiritchaser still eats it and hard,

                                              e














don't worry i still wuv yoo 8)


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:14:29 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: GBW 285L


I got a nice letter and postcard from 4AD Mail Order today about my credit
card (valid thru 06/96) and with some release info:

"We've got an exciting Summer and Autumn coming up with releases from
Throwing Muses, Lisa Germano, and Heidi Berry. Our new icelandic signing
Gus Gus will be releasing a single and album in the Autumn. They're great!
Pencilled in for late Autumn release is the Pixies retrospective. There
*may* be some mail order only goodies available around it's release so keep
in touch!"

On the postcard a picture of four japanese girls siting in some park with
two phoning topless guys with a little red Fiat (GBW 285L). Oh, and there's
a Lush logo on top of the car...

The new Lush single 500 (Shake Baby Shake): again two cd singles and a
limited (this time red) 7".


version) and the hexadecimal deb mix of Last Night.

7" 500 and I Have The Moon


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:10:54 -0500
From: mark frank (mrf546t@NIC.SMSU.EDU)
Subject: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, 4ad, etc.)


i have a for sale list, including some older and newer fax, aphex twin,
guitary ambient (labradford), 4ad, eno, and lots more, some vinyl,
but mostly cd.

email me for the complete list.

thanks,

mark


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:51:29 +0200
From: Grant Goodes (ggo@CSD.CRI.DK)
Subject: Re: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, 4ad, etc.)


Please send me your list.  Thanks.

grant..

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:58:53 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: stuff for sale (fax, rephlex, 4ad, etc.)


(personal to mark)

What is your email address?

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:16:41 -0500
From: HORTMAN_M@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: Cocteau banter was Re: Spiritchaser


Hey Lars, next time use a ;).  Obviously most people on the list didn't make
the connection that you're the one who put togethe the eyesore database.
\
what *is* the world coming to?

marvyn

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:28:11 EDT
From: Dez (100702.123@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Subject: Re: The great Cocteau purges


Rex Lloyd wrote:

>    Hey now, I must disagree here.  Although it's likely us 4AD freaks are
>more apt to hang onto our collection of old musik (from the 80's that shaped
>our lives) than the average Meriah Carey fan (run away!), I don't believe we
>go purchase their new albums in order to relive past experiences.  Nor do
>any of us believe that 'Treasure II' is in the works (wouldn't that be..);
>that maybe this is the album that's going to sound like 'they did in the past'.
>     I personally think M&K is just as good as Pink Opaque and (get ready
>for this one) that spiritchaser is just as good as Serpent's Egg (Listen to
>track 8  and tell me what drug they were on).  And my, how
>they've progressed beautifully!  In other words, I buy their discs because I
>know it's going to be GOOD SHIT.. might be different good shit, might be new
>and exciting or not shit.. It's certainly not worth all the debate (new vs.
>old).  I, for one, could listen to Liz or Lisa gurgle mouthwash on the
>toilet for an hour and think THAT was the answer!  And I'm willing to tell
>it to world even if it is a 'gushing fan-like thing'.

Nobody was accusing anybody of buying stuff simply because it's on 4AD, and
therefore has to be good. Nor was I accusing people of living in the past for
liking new Cocteau stuff. What I was basically stating was that I agreed pretty
much with Lars about how generic and dull the band had become, and that I object
to being accused of being a 'listgod' for daring to have a different opinion. I
think the Cocteau Twins are tedious, and no amount of ranting by the supporters
is going to change that - just as I hardly expect them to be carting their
collections down to Record & Tape exchange because of my comments. Perspectives
seemed to be getting a bit warped here.
Oh, and by the way - I like Spiritchaser too, and said so here a few weeks back,
so I don't know why you dragged that up.

>     But what I do think is sad and what I do miss about 'the Treasure days'
>is that freaks like you had not the slightest clue who/what any of this was
>about and therefore could not spew such boring babble.

Mmm. I think you're jumping to rather silly conclusions here. I've been around a
bit longer than you may think.

- Dez


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:33:17 -0700
From: Layne McLean (laynemc@SNOWCREST.NET)
Subject: This Rimy Ltd. - Sometime


Greetings,

I was in LA last weekend for an education conference and had a chance to go
over to Arcana in Santa Monica and the owner said that Vaughn was there last
week and they were expecting their ltd. edition Rimy's very soon.  Vaughn
has "been assured" that they are almost finished.

For what its worth.

Layne
laynemc@snowcrest.net


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:12:40 -0700
From: cz (cz@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: FS: Rollerskate Skinny

              22:56:01 +0000

>   >ROLLERSKATE SKINNY - A great band with a stooopid name.
>   I
>   >bought _Horsedrawn Wishes_ (another stupid name) after
>   Brant
>   >Dewdrops raved about it.  He's right. It's an excellent
>   CD.
>   >A very well done guitar-based CD.  I plan to buy the
>   followup
>   >CD as soon as I find it used.
>   >
>   i agree, terrible name, but 'horsedrawn wishes' is quite
>   good.  what's this about a followup?  didn't they just
>   release this one about 5 months ago?

I think this must be in reference to the debut CD, not the followup since
Horesedrawn Wishes is relatively new.  Speaking of Rollerskate Skinny's HW.
I've got an extra copy if anyone wants to buy it off me.  Contact me privately
please.

-cz  (cz@u.washington.edu)


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:13:56 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: Spiritchasing The Cocteau Twins


I think what happens with the Cocteau Twins is that their
  fans (including me) still loves them much, and that they
  (we) would be ready to buy a thousand future "Milk And Kisses",
  simply because we feel they are so authentic and unique in sound, =

  and this even though we...well...a few listgods at least...
  are agreeing that the album IS NOT THEIR BEST EFFORT, and this,
  whatever the "moods" and "perticularities" one may assigne
  to it.

  Now, the question is : Is this the result of a bad catalysation
  of aptitudes and potential, the result of musical idleness, or
  then simply the consequence of time. What about if "Milk And
  Kisses" had been released a few years ago, would it have
  "sounded" better ? I think that somehow something is culturally
  happening : people seems to not be "into" groups like Cocteau =

=A0=A0Twins (or even The Cure (!)) a lot nowadays. Technology and =

=A0=A0Aesthetics' perpetual and interrelated Evolution once again      =

=A0=A0commands adaptation. We wish for a remixed version of "Milk And =

=A0=A0Kisses" redone by Warren, we dream of the longly awaited solo =

=A0=A0effort from Liz, we hope for that techno-sounding "Treasure"  =

=A0=A0aka la Violaine in Otherness. But before I accuse the Cocteaus
  of releasing an album that sounds too much like them, even though
  the selections are not amongst the best of theirs, I need to
  question that relationship that I have come to build "upon" them :
   last night, a band called The Cure was playing in my town, a
   band of which that I once thought I'd be loyal to the end,
   buying all their records, and what else, teenage promisses,
   I didn't even care a second buying their new album, and I =

   would even feel embarassed meeting Robert himself in the streets,
   cos now I understand what it is like to stop loving someone
   I once really admired, and I think "that" is pretty sad...
   (Hopefully tomorrow I will realize that they did some =

    important records in the past, even though right now
    I couldn't stand any of their songs on my player or anywhere,
    except perhaps in memory)


 I seem to follow a path in Taste, and it is no pasts' paste.


     Ced The Caspesyan


sentiment@accent.net

"O Rimy.... So Minty...... Oozing out mailboxes......
 when will you wreck upon my chest...."


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:05:39 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: The Great Spangled 4ad Purges


I can relate to all these frustrations (except the ones
 concerning the new acts, which I do appreciate).

 The fragile point here is :

 Do we implore 4ad to thanks us for so many years of
 fans loyalty ?

 Or do we thanks them for inspiring a passion that fills
 our lives up to the point that we're instituting mailing lists
 in their honors?

 It's like a one-way relationship this love.

 Do you stop loving someone that doesn't give a damn about you ?

 Nope... You wish so... But you instead get obsessed further and =

=A0further by that person that you eventually come to idealize him/her
 as something that he/she isn't.

 I understand more from 4ad and the music industry in general
 when I observe them from my distance. Everything changes in
 Taste, and 4ad is following the same trend to a respectable
 degree, meaning that one can still manage to make relations
 between the newest acts and the oldest. Just try the find
 the song on each of 4ad's releases that you would apply
 the most to a newest form of This Mortal Coil, and you might
 understand an inch of what I'm trying to communicate. 4ad
 has, I believe, a certain "soul", probably because its catalog =

=A0comes mostly from the perspectives of an only human's taste,
 and I think that is enough to wonder (wander) about, that any
 speculations are hopeless, and that the rest is left to a
 business for which the "owner" of 4ad musn't deal a strong hold.
 =

 The music industry cares more for journalists and promoters
 than for any fans, it's clear to me, it's prostitution.
 And it's like that everywhere, so I couldn't blame 4ad
 for acting the same (posters, beautifully packaged promos, etc,
 not made for fans,etc). The only way you can respond to this
 is by starting your own label and trying to evitate those
 downwards.Or asks for a control of the press release in the
 contracts when you're signed as an artist.

 Huh.... By the way... Are the new Lush ep's out yet ?
  (and to make a connection with the previous paragraph,
   I think Lush's sleeves make an interesting comment about
   that, even though it deals also with "signifyer" and "signified"
   aesthetic problems posed in Art/Photo theory (mixed with =

   real life symbolism).)


    sentiment


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:11:04 -0500
From: Cedric Caspesyan (sentiment@ACCENT.NET)
Subject: "=AO".............................................................

....?

Hmmm... just saw my previous posts on the lists...

Can somebody tell me where does those =AO=AO comes from ?

And how can I evince this in the future ?

thanks.

Cedr.

sentiment             @             accent.           net


"=AO huh....=AO=AO= hem..... =AOOAA==AO..that was the state=AOment"


Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:52:11 -0400
From: Srilank@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: (#47) great Cocteau purges/ plug your eyes red


<<      1. I buy what I like, just because it's on 4AD doesn't mean it's
      fantastic.>>

...since when ;)

 >     2. I'll buy any old shite off 4AD because I'm a _FAN_! (re- Lisa and
>      Liz gurgling with mouthwash).

*This* was only _proposed_, and Richard James was only *thinking* about
re-mixing--nothing else.  Let us not jump the gun here.

I will take this opportunity to plug the new Fax release by Redeye.  I
dismissed it on first listen, but after a few takes *this* is one of the best
things out by the label in the last eight months.  This is after a
disappointing string of annoying sequels and other Ill fated projects.  It
brings to mind a less lush FSOL lifeforms (but not in a bad way), and
incorporates a bit of Aphex Twin and a dash of the Fax collection staple
Modula Green.  Not for the faint at heart, but if you're looking for
something to take your mind off of the endless arguments of 4AD yesteryear, I
would suggest this as a starter.

...and what's more, Ear/Rational recently lowered their Fax prices to $13.50
post-paid per cd.
oh, and I don't work there, but it *is* a good deal for import discs and
thought I'd be neighborly and pass it on.

jason

srilank@aol.com

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:05:45 -0700
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: (#47) great Cocteau purges/ plug your eyes red


At 11:52 PM 7/5/96, Srilank@AOL.COM wrote:
><<      1. I buy what I like, just because it's on 4AD doesn't mean it's
>      fantastic.>>
>
>...since when ;)
>
> >     2. I'll buy any old shite off 4AD because I'm a _FAN_! (re- Lisa and
>>      Liz gurgling with mouthwash).
>
>*This* was only _proposed_, and Richard James was only *thinking* about
>re-mixing--nothing else.  Let us not jump the gun here.
>
>I will take this opportunity to plug the new Fax release by Redeye.  I
>dismissed it on first listen, but after a few takes *this* is one of the best
>things out by the label in the last eight months.  This is after a
>disappointing string of annoying sequels and other Ill fated projects.  It
>brings to mind a less lush FSOL lifeforms (but not in a bad way), and
>incorporates a bit of Aphex Twin and a dash of the Fax collection staple
>Modula Green.  Not for the faint at heart, but if you're looking for
>something to take your mind off of the endless arguments of 4AD yesteryear, I
>would suggest this as a starter.
>
>...and what's more, Ear/Rational recently lowered their Fax prices to $13.50
>post-paid per cd.
>oh, and I don't work there, but it *is* a good deal for import discs and
>thought I'd be neighborly and pass it on.
>
>jason
>
>srilank@aol.com

All you 4AD types...don't listen to einexile and company. Get on the
ambient list and buy as you see fit.  These guys are just trying to be
"somebodies".


Fred Collins