4ad-l Mail for 06-11-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: out of print?
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:27:01 -0500
From: Matthew T De Bellis (mdebelli@SHRIKE.DEPAUL.EDU)
Subject: too pure's address
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 02:31:12 -0400
From: Lush Muse (Lushmuse@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: karma {notlisty as fuck!} (fwd)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 00:59:30 -0700
From: Heffalump (n9344881@cc.wwu.edu)
Subject: Re: his name is arrive
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:03:34 -0700
From: Heffalump (n9344881@CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re "Carma"
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:06:17 EST
From: David Boughey (dboughey@MGDESTMX01.ERIN.GOV.AU)
Subject: Re: "Spain" I think it was?/Seefeel
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:26:05 -0400
From: daniel klyn (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:21:15 -0400
From: daniel klyn (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: his name is arrive
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:15:49 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: this religion thing
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:54:48 -0400
From: The Boy In Zinc (Boyinzinc@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: this religion thing
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:12:58 -0400
From: daniel klyn (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: karma {notlisty as fuck!} (fwd)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:32:35 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: A very "4ad" show this Friday 6/14
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:18:44 -0500
From: MS VICTORIA M FAVELL (KSES56F@PRODIGY.COM)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:13:07 -0400
From: "James M. Renaud" (jrenaud@GOPHER.CHEM.WAYNE.EDU)
Subject: DCD at the Keswick Theatre
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:26:48 EDT
From: "Holly A. Hopey" (bio4hah@CABELL.VCU.EDU)
Subject: Shaving Kit Music
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:45:18 -0500
From: "Jeffrey T. Gayton" (jtgayton@POLISCI.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: this religion thing
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:36:18 -0700
From: David McCallum (mccallum@EFN.ORG)
Subject: Pleasure Pop!
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:42:52 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Pop!
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:40:21 -0700
From: David Stack (dstack@NETCOM.COM)

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:27:01 -0500
From: Matthew T De Bellis (mdebelli@SHRIKE.DEPAUL.EDU)
Subject: Re: out of print?


While we're on the subject of things out of print, can someone tell me if
the following stuff is ihn print still???

PALE SAINTS - Flesh Balloon
THROWING MUSES - Counting Backwards
PALE SAINTS - Barging into the Presence of God

Also, can someone post, or tell me where I can find the items that were
deleted from the last 4AD catalog???  Thanks...

Matt


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 02:31:12 -0400
From: Lush Muse (Lushmuse@AOL.COM)
Subject: too pure's address


hey!

i made a little mistake when i wrote the address for too pure, i forgot to
put the suite number. well here is the address again:

for the too pure fanzine:

puree
too pure records
3500 w. olive ave. suite 1550
burbank, ca 91505-4628

and to send demos:

too pure records
3500 w. olive ave. suite 1550
burbank, ca 91505-4628

sorry for the error and the inconvenience!!
pete


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 00:59:30 -0700
From: Heffalump (n9344881@cc.wwu.edu)
Subject: Re: karma {notlisty as fuck!} (fwd)

>

What in hell does this have to do with 4ad?  ...and since you seem to have
already asked that one (see the subject)...  Just SHUT UP!  Spare us your
pitiful, drab arguments and take it to private mail already!  If this
isn't clear enough, send me a message and I'll try to put it in simpler
terms.

It's ridiculous enough that I feel I need to post this kind of message...

Mike

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:03:34 -0700
From: Heffalump (n9344881@CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re: his name is arrive


On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Kagin Lee wrote:

> > much grass,
> > dan

[...]
> Don't make fun of spanish, cos it's my favourite language.
>  I'm trying real hard not to be mean now, don't do it again.

And how is this in any way "thislisty?"  Should I start posting linguistic
questions... movie reviews, carpentry tips, VCR schematics or etc?
How about we rename it to the "Jack of all trades" list?

Mike


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:06:17 EST
From: David Boughey (dboughey@MGDESTMX01.ERIN.GOV.AU)
Subject: Re "Carma"


 einexile the meek wrote on 8 June:



>Carma...isn't that the spiritual magic that comes from the enchanted land


>where people regularly set their wives on fire? No thanks. ;)

Trying to link the actions of some people in one country with the acceptance of
the concept of Karma is a bit of a generalisation and one which I think is
unfair. The religions which encompass the concept of Karma and which originated
in the region of India over 2000 years ago are now (and have been for a long
time) spread far beyond one country's borders and are accepted and practiced in
a variety of forms by people in a variety of cultures.

David Boughey


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:26:05 -0400
From: daniel klyn (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: "Spain" I think it was?/Seefeel


On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Roy Burns wrote:

> Guthrie still does almost nothing, although he's actually been lurching when
> he plays. ROCK ON!!!

        im laughing out loud


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:21:15 -0400
From: daniel klyn (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive


>
> >All songs on STARS ON ESP are original.  Someone previously mentioned that
> >one song was the same music but different lyrics of a Beach Boys song.  That
> >is absolutely incorrect.  This is part of the genius that is Warren Defever.
>
> Indeed, Warren IS a genius! I think he and Beck should get together...
>
        i finally scraped together the necessary clams to
        purchase "Universal Frequencies" last night. damn!
        those of you who listen to 'hiiyh' and 'livonia'
        much more frequently than 'mbm' (present company
        included), youre gonna like this one.

        the beach boys homage which is the first track
        is krazy good. like, if beck were to attempt
        this project it would likely sound all sly
        and post-mod and self-consciously cheezy.
        the warren treatment is authentic. a
        straight-faced love for 'pet sounds' animates this
        bugger, no traces of self-parody or detached
        satire. imho, its the shit. and if youre
        a stoner (like me & beck) you'll probably dig
        it even more.

        the next track is his name is alive a-la
        hiiyh. fragmented, zillionlayered, tweaked.
        third song is 'summer of esp', formerly
        appearing on the shaving the pavement cass.
        nice to hear it on cd. note: does anyone else
        think that the version on shaving is different
        than on 'univ. freq.'? hmmm.....

        fourth track flows out of some chaotic wierdness
        at the end of three, and is basically, as
        mentioned previously, a choir singing over
        the esp family version of 'this world is not
        my home'.  faux lo-fi static gets a bit
        unnnerving here, but thats okay.

        overall this thing seems like a six track
        ep, even tho the sleeve lists 4 trax.
        the packaging is splendid, and features
        a widdle picture of a stoned-looking
        warren underneath the star-like-thingy
        that pokes thru the hole in the cd.
        i love this disc, and recommend it
        emphatically.  cant wait for the LP!


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:15:49 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: his name is arrive


After Kagin wrote:
> Don't make fun of spanish, cos it's my favourite language.
>  I'm trying real hard not to be mean now, don't do it again.

and Heffalump jollily replied:
>And how is this in any way "thislisty?"  Should I start posting linguistic
>questions... movie reviews, carpentry tips, VCR schematics or etc?
>How about we rename it to the "Jack of all trades" list?

I see now that I can hang up my ueber-listy-thought-polizei helmet (the
one with the spike on top) with the assurance that the job is in
excellent hands.

culture or those of German ancestry [such as m'self].

message begins here:
Now that Scala's EP appears to be out (it's in the latest Ear/Rational
catalog) has anyone had a chance to listen to it? Ordinarily I'd rush out
and order it, but budget crises and my disenchantment with everything
Seefeely lead me toward an extra helping of caution on this one.
Commentary would be appreciated. I recall one or two people had opinions
on the "Tears" 7", how about the newer content?

__________          ___________________          ________________________
Jens Alfke          OpenDoc Optimizator          jens@apple.com     [work]
                                                 jens@mooseyard.com [play]

Want to be * Got to be * Witty * Don't want to * Be inert * Inert * WITTY
                                            _____________________________
                                            http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:54:48 -0400
From: The Boy In Zinc (Boyinzinc@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: this religion thing


e wrote flippantly:

>> Carma...isn't that the spiritual magic that comes from the enchanted land
>> where people regularly set their wives on fire? No thanks. ;)

david mccallum retorted (with very little thought):

>And you and your message of spiritual intolerence come from "the enchanted
>land" where churches built by oppressed minorities are burned down in the
>night.

what makes you think e is a christian?  i assume you're attacking
christianity here -- an attack i won't bother to respond to...if you're
attacking the us as a nation, e had no control over where he was born...let's
not forget that taking the actions of a few and extrapolating them to a large
group of people (or even worse, another individual)  is extremely faulty
reasoning.  if you're going to argue, at least base your argument on what you
know to be certain, not what you assume.

daniel klyn also added:

>> On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Jens Alfke felt compelled, once again, to
        exacerbate offlisty bickering because he just 'couldnt help' but
        share a mealymouthed defense of the dominate self-worshipping
paradigm
        with the rest of the list.  the purpose being what, again?  to
        help me to understand another point of view? to offer me help
        on my path toward enlightenment?  to beat his chest all
alpha-male-like
        and put me in my place??<<

and you, of course, responded in the way you did because you wished to
challenge the alpha male's authority, usurping him and assuming the role of
alpha male yourself ;)  sorry, but that was just too juicy to leave alone...


>> What, are we requiring everyone in the world to believe in everything
>> these days? It would certainly cut down on arguments, but think of how
>> boring we'd be. Even the White Queen could only manage _six_ impossible
>> beliefs before breakfast.


>        the only ones seeming to 'require' a specific kind of
>        thinking on this list are you, jens, and your evil
>        twin, the meek.

i don't know what sense you're using the word in, but calling someone who you
do not know very well "evil," is a bit too much...

jens later wrote:

>>>* e and I were at least able to avoid direct ad hominem insults. Daniel,
as he has before, leaps right into slurs on my character. Why? I have no
idea. I've never met him, he has no idea who I am (and vice versa). I
might be more offended if his attacks weren't ludicrously off target <<<

jens pretty much made my point for me...if you're trying to have an
intelligent conversation and convince someone of your viewpoint, don't resort
to calling them names...it doesn't work..settle down, dan/dna...

BiZ


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:12:58 -0400
From: daniel klyn (owilde@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: this religion thing


  "if you're going to argue, at least base your argument on what you
>  know to be certain, not what you assume"
                                        -biZ

  "nothing is real"
                -john lennon




Once upon a time, in a land real, real far from 4ad-land, the
boy in the zinc deduced that:

> you , of course, responded in the way you did because you
  wished to challenge the alpha male's authority, usurping him and assuming
  the role of alpha male yourself ;)  sorry, but that was just too juicy
  to leave alone...


        Certainly my reply was meant to be an objection to the authority of the
        dominant/would-be dominator, but it _is_ actually possible to
        reject an authoritarian's authority without ever caring
        to fill the now empty space where authority was residing.

        the status quo answer to this debacle (refusing to be dominated)
        would be that nature abhorrs a vacuum. a maxim coined by
        the same folk who proclaimed 'arbeit macht frei' a few
        decades ago.  i see no problem with using power (in this case
        semantic/linguistic power) actively in the attempt to
        challenge and maybe one day depose tyranny (t = you cant think
        that way, boy). not to get up ourselves on the pulpit
        of tryranny, but just to evict the present tennant(s).


> >        the only ones seeming to 'require' a specific kind of
> >        thinking on this list are you, jens, and your evil
> >        twin, the meek.
>
> i don't know what sense you're using the word in, but calling someone who you
> do not know very well "evil," is a bit too much...


           anyone claiming to have the answer for anyone other
           than themselves, and who actively assumes power(s)
           in order to silence the alternate answers, is most
           certainly evil.

> jens pretty much made my point for me...if you're trying to have an
> intelligent conversation and convince someone of your viewpoint, don't resort
> to calling them names...it doesn't work..settle down,

            i hope never to try to convince somebody to
            accept my viewpoint.
            my little diatribe was intended for the peanut
            gallery, so that they might be aware
            of my viewpoint. strong language doesnt
            work to convince somebody to accept my
            viewpoint, but does demonstrate my disgust with
            authoritarians, scoffers, and the like to
            those strange folk who keep reading messages
            with this subject line.

            'nothing to get hung about'
                                -the walrus


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:32:35 -0400
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: karma {notlisty as fuck!} (fwd)


On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Jens Alfke wrote:
> * e and I were at least able to avoid direct ad hominem insults. Daniel,
> as he has before, leaps right into slurs on my character.

I dont see attacks on people's personal beliefs as somehow different from
ad hominem insults (btw 'direct ad hominem' is redundant).

> * What does some quoted stuff about the many-worlds interpretation (which
> I personally favor) have to do with refuting the substance of what I
> said? Many-worlds is completely un-Buddhist --

explain what you mean by claiming many worlds is non-buddhist please

BTW, it seems most of this arguement is based on the mistaken perception
that anybody is trying to force-feed a belief system on some one else. As
far as I can tell parrallels between events were suggested and this
spurred all sorts of attacks on beliefs and ideasas being 'mystical',
which of course is a terrible thing (?!). No belief system is anymore
mystical than another - anything from science to karma is a belief in a
metaphysical order. Is one right and the other wrong? Thats just a matter
of the rhetorical smoke and mirrors we call proof, and all in all NOT a
very interesting question.


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:18:44 -0500
From: MS VICTORIA M FAVELL (KSES56F@PRODIGY.COM)
Subject: A very "4ad" show this Friday 6/14


I just wanted to let everyone in the Los Angeles area know about a
very cool show happening this Friday 6/14 at the Alligator Lounge in
Santa Monica. Two particular bands are playing and they both
definitely have that sound that we all love. Very good music. At
and they are amazing. I could describe it as a cross between PJ
Harvey, Bjork, and the Cocteau Twins. I only heard one song of theirs
but it was pretty cool. Also playing is Lava Diva. They are so good.
They play a couple of tracks of theirs late nights on KCRW. Very good
stuff. Also playing that night is the band Babyland. I think they're
an industrial band. Well, just wanted to let you all know if you're
not doing anything this Friday night. I know I'll be there. I wonder
if 4ad knows about these bands ? Definitely 4ad material if they
aren't already signed. See you there.

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:13:07 -0400
From: "James M. Renaud" (jrenaud@GOPHER.CHEM.WAYNE.EDU)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive


On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Rich Holtzman wrote:

> All songs on STARS ON ESP are original.  Someone previously mentioned that
> one song was the same music but different lyrics of a Beach Boys song.  That
> is absolutely incorrect.  This is part of the genius that is Warren Defever.
>  Warren almost convinces you it is a cover by doing it so well.  He uses
> sleigh bells, hell he even records like Brian Wilson would have.
>

i didn't mean that it was directly the beach boys song, but that it sounds
exactly like one. warren says that himself when i asked him. he told me
that he just tried to pull off a beach boys song and universal frequencies
was the closest he got.

**************************** star vein ***********************************
**************************** http://www.science.wayne.edu/~jrenaud *******
**************************** jrenaud@sun.science.wayne.edu ***************
**************************************************************************
"since feeling is first who pays any attention to the syntax of things" **
***** e.e. cummings ******************************************************
**************************************************************************
**************************************************************************


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:26:48 EDT
From: "Holly A. Hopey" (bio4hah@CABELL.VCU.EDU)
Subject: DCD at the Keswick Theatre


Has anyone ever been to the Keswick Theatre in Glenside, PA, or is
familiar with the seating arrangement?  I just got my DCD tickets
last week and they say row AAA, pit.  They sound like good seats, but
I'd like to know what to expect.  Plus, is the Keswick strange about
you bringing things with you?  I've been to shows where they frisk
you before you go in to the show.

Thanks,

Holly
bio4hah@cabell.vcu.edu

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:45:18 -0500
From: "Jeffrey T. Gayton" (jtgayton@POLISCI.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Shaving Kit Music


I just got a copy of the "Shaving Kit..." CD and was very disappointed to
find it in a plain jewel case without a custom sleeve or anything.  I
though there was a cool-looking digipak or something.  Am I wrong?  What
does yours look like?

--Jeff

Jeffrey T. Gayton
jtgayton@polisci.wisc.edu

Dissertation \dis-er-`ta-shen\ n (1651) : 1 an extended usu. written
treatment of a subject; specif. : one submitted for a doctorate  2 world's
longest job application

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:36:18 -0700
From: David McCallum (mccallum@EFN.ORG)
Subject: Re: this religion thing


The Boy In Zinc wrote:
> e wrote flippantly:
>
> >> Carma...isn't that the spiritual magic that comes from the enchanted land
> >> where people regularly set their wives on fire? No thanks. ;)
>
> david mccallum retorted (with very little thought):
>
> >And you and your message of spiritual intolerence come from "the enchanted
> >land" where churches built by oppressed minorities are burned down in the
> >night.
>
> what makes you think e is a christian?

I don't think "e" is a christian.  And it doesn't matter, does it?  (This and
all the following questioning responses are all hypothetical.)

> i assume you're attacking
> christianity here -- an attack i won't bother to respond to...

I wasn't. Why do you make this assumption?

> if you're
> attacking the us as a nation, e had no control over where he was born...

I suppose indirectly I was attacking the US.  And I hope neither you or
"e" play the part of a victim of your times in your respective lives,
because you're not.

> let's
> not forget that taking the actions of a few and extrapolating them to a large
> group of people (or even worse, another individual)  is extremely faulty
> reasoning.

Now you've hit on it. You're absolutely correct in saying that I was using
extremely faulty reasoning. It's the same as "e's."

Overall, I think you're injecting alot of stuff into my message that isn't
there, but hey! do what you will.

Cheers,
David.

--
David McCallum                                                mccallum@efn.org
                  http://www.efn.org/~mccallum/arkane.html

Would clocks tick through the time if not for the beat of your heart near mine?


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:42:52 -0700
From: Jeff Keibel (redshift@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Pleasure Pop!


Cocteau Twins arrive in Toronto on Friday and their opeing act Spain
was reccomended to me by a friend.  Their "The Blue Moods Of Spain"
album on Restless Records (7 72910-2) is in the same area as Red House
Painters/American Music Club.  I have only played the album a few times
but I'll reserve judgment on them until after I see them in concert.

Just received Dewdrops # 15; thanks Brant 'n' Pat!  During a call to
Brant, I mentioned this band from my previous city of Edmonton,
Alberta called The Sensualists.  Brant immediately recognised them
and said that their album has been very highly rated in issue # 15!
Too cool!

The Sensualists are Michael Turner and Mandy Cousins.
Their most recent album, "Lovesongs Of Chaos And Desire" (Love23) was
self-released by the band in the summer ofd '94 but is very much
worth your time to track down.  Mandy's vocals have been likened to
even better than Liz's!  The frustrating part to this brilliant band
is their almost willfull desire not to promote themselves
agressively.  You can write to the band via the address on the latest
CD but I'll try to dig up the more current one...

                THE SENSUALISTS
                11019 - 129 Street
                Edmonton, Alberta
                T5M 0Y4
                CANADA

The Sensualists were to be the first signing to my very own label
back in '94 but when plans became delayed, they released "Lovesongs"
on their own.  It's a wonderful album, just read Brant and Pat's
reviews!  I can listen to it over and over again!  They also had the
artwork from a very v23-ish quality designer Lam Wong, very beautiful
stuff indeed!  Where are you now, Lam?

An earlier, cassette only album from '92 is also worth tracking down,
not only for the music but for the way Lam Wong packaged it.
Entitled "Boon", this cassette has beautiful artwork on the inlay
card, overlayed with opaque-type paper.  A black cardboard cassette
box wrapper features individually hand prepared artwork, to hide the
"beaver pic" on the cassette inlay cover.  This cassette features two
tracks, "Boon" and "Moonmadness" which were later rerecorded for the
"Lovesongs" CD.

Overall, this is a band that NEEDS to get more attention NOW!  I'm
going to get a hold of the band to see if "Lovesongs" is still
available as reviews like the Dewdrops' pair from Brant and Pat are
too tempting to not be able to hear the music!

I'm told  by a friend of Michael and Mandy's that new material is
almost ready for release.  Should this come to be, I'll post info
as soon as possible.  I saw them live in Edmonton in December '92
opening for Michael Brook and they were totally wonderful!

They have a 4AD connection in that they actually met up with Ivo
back in '81 or '82 when they were called another name regarding
working with 4AD.  Hopefully Ivo will take a listen to their
new stuff; music like this really does deserve to be heard!

Jeff,
Toronto
CANADA


Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:40:21 -0700
From: David Stack (dstack@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Pop!

              96 08:42:52 pm

I second the motion that The Sensualists are top rated band.   I have the
CD Love Songs of Chaos and Desire and just love it to death.  It sits
right next to my Cocteau Twins CDs.  Out of all the bands that I have
heard that are likened to the Twins, this band (The Sensualists) sound
most like them - hands down!

If anyone has a copy of the Boon Tape, I will buy it. I have been looking
for it for a while now.

Dave Stack
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erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 6-11-1996