Subject: Black Rose (was cheezy sandman...)
Subject: (slowdive-beats)
Subject: Re: Mysterious Scratchings
Subject: Re: Black Rose
Subject: Durutti Column, ARKane etc.
Subject: Gilbert And Lewis / Colin Newman / Wire
Subject: scratch scratch
Subject: Re: (slowdive-beats) Frutti Column
Subject: dead can dance ann arbor
Subject: lush on tv
Subject: Re: Gilbert And Lewis / Colin Newman / Wire
Subject: Re: (slowdive-beats)
Subject: Kristin Hersch and Lush
Subject: godzuki/hnia/east coast/august
Subject: Moonshake??
Subject: Re: (slowdive-beats)
Subject: Re: (slowdive-beats)
Subject: Re: Moonshake??
Subject: Moonshake and Laika
Subject: Re: (slowdive-beats)
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 01:11:22 -0400
>i saw it too and thought it was very thislisty. also did anyone see the
movie
>hideawy theres a group on the soundtrack called miranda sex garden that i
>know folks would just love and has anyone heard of an obscure banfd or
>project called the black rose i'm seeking any info i can get on them.
I remember hearing about black rose way back when on this list...it sounded
interesting, and so I went on a search for their material. As *always* with
obscure must-get thislisty music, it was easier said than done.
***side note*** In a parallel near-perfect world where our musical tastes are
smudged to the point to where we liked aerosol cheese metal, ideally we could
go into any chain retail record outlet, look in the cutout bins, !FIND OUR
TREASURE!, slap down 5 bucks and have the Complete Whitesnake discography on
cassette and-just-be-content-with everything!
We would then go back to our computer, log on to the Geffen/cutout records
list and discuss what wonderful things resided in 'such and such' David
Coverdale penned masterpiece. We would proceed to scalp those who were not
"open-minded" enough to envision a world in which Steve Vai ruled...
***point to the above***
It's easier to find Whitesnake than black rose.
...and now the continuation.
I went in search of black rose, with many unsuccessful tirades of record
stores.
I continued.
I looked one day, in a new record store, and behold--the little white card in
front of the cds said what I was looking for; 'black rose'. Yes!
This is it! happy...& then joy!
I threw the card from it's rightful home, grabbed all the cds which were
housed behind it. I stared at the odd cover of the first pick of the pile
and a look of confusion draped my mug. It was a look along the lines of
high-school geography tests from hell, with questions such as "give the
length of the Nile river (in centimeters)".
Anyway, I flipped the cd over, and SWEET JESUS!! it's dokken!!?
"I have been looking for dokken?" I bellowed.
Well, not exactly. These "guys" looked the part however, with their
tough-guy poses and pink leather with the obligatory lion mane sprayed and
teased to the heavens. I ran up and down the aisles cursing and steaming,
pushing some guy with a hootie t-shirt for general principles {and the fact
that it feels good, try it--ed.}
What a crock.
It was such a disappointment.
All hope was not lost. The store attendant calmed me down with a slap to the
face, a well deserved spanking, and a firm finger pointed to the following
card behind the first black rose one I whizzed around the store a few moments
earlier. Behind THAT black rose vacant card space, was another black rose
card with the letters u.k. following it.
Oh.
I see.
said me.
This was the right one.
I took this one cd and paid for it in cash, because I knew if I gave them a
check or credit card they would track me down and probably burn down my
house. Paranoid, you say? Nah. I made a scene, and I know they were
looking for revenge. I'm in witness relocation now, so that's not really a
concern of mine anymore. Well...not a BIG concern.
Black Rose-_The room inside_ (Contedisc)
This cd for the most part is gentle piano playing accompanied by some lovely
female vocals. There are tracks that sound simplistic or minimalistic
(choose your adjective). It doesn't detract from the sound of the record,
which is overall very atmospheric. The one obvious exception to the
preceeding sentence is their cover of Cindytalk's "Circle of Shit" which I
believe Gordan Sharp chips in with. There is some nice synth strings gliding
in and out of a few of the cuts. Some tracks have lyrics (which are
justatineebit pretentious) others just emit the voice as instrumentation.
Reminds me of tmc piano cuts on a lower level. Perfect band to be
pigeon-holed on projekt IMO.
hope this was of some help on the extent on which to search for Black Rose.
jason
[email protected]
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:57:14 -0700
rainboy once wrote:
> > this is to be my first post here, though ive been a lurker
> > for some time now..anyhow, to simplify matters, here i go.....
Welcome to the tenth level of Hell. :)
> > one..can anyone point me in the direction of bands/albums using
> > the methods and sounds such as slowdive's pygmalion album?
> > i find it interesting and beautiful in its simplicity and
> > minimalist attitude...
This is a very difficult album to compare anything to literally, and I
think I may go out on a Durutti Column hunt tomorrow thanks to Wilder's
reply. Early work by AR Kane such as 69 and the ep(s?) released on 4AD
have been likened to Pygmalion but I find it a bit grating personally. I
can however point you at two records (the only two I know of, actually)
that share Pygmalion's darkly intimate, psychologically tormented
His Name Is Alive - Home Is in Your Head
Locust - Truth is Born of Arguments
And here's something that sounds absolutely nothing like Pygmalion but
which is the only other thing I own that satisfies my recurring need tor
Pygmalion's creepy Brighter Side:
Global Communication - 76 14
I think the active ingredient here is an intense but refined and
dignified sadness, such that hardly anyone ever accomplishes without
collapsing the record under its own syrup. (Obviously you'll likely see
no relationship between the two albums whatsoever unless you can relate
to what I'm saying, though 76 14 is wonderful anyhoo. I admit that
these are two of my very favorite albums.)
> > two..im also in search of bands/albums not unlike the sound of
> > slowdive's ambient/electronic insturmentals "good day
> > sunshine" and "missing you"..anyone who can help me find
> > things similar to this as well will be praised..
I almost posted about exactly this in the past but for some reason
never got around to it. The 5ep is pretty unique in its relentless but
relaxed bassdrum. It's odd that this type of stuff is so rare while some
really complex rhythms have become cliches over the past few years.
Anyway, check out these:
Moby - Ambient
A Day in the Park
The Whole Traffic
The Moby album is nothing like his other work; in fact I think he has
disowned it as it is an album of demos compiled by Instinct after they
parted company. (Is this right?) It is a completely lovely album, though
a bit corny at times. There is however a wonderful track by the name of
Heaven which is every bit as hypnotic as Missing You.
A Day in the Park is a release on Fax, from about two years ago, by Dr.
Atmo and the two chaps who make up Xangadix and The MS-Series. (Fax
titling standards are a bit weird, with artists frequently changing
project names and those projects usually releasing self-titled albums.)
While the first two tracks on this are kind of irritating, the third (of
three), called Walk, is a half hour ambient masterpiece that builds into
a wonderful, thumping thing that never ever goes over the top. Unlike so
many other tracks, it knows it's got a good thing going and it just
maintains the groove. It also benefits from a luscious, dark atmosphere,
arcane and ominous, though it might strike some as a little synthy or
new age. (Fax takes a lot of criticism for that.)
The Whole Traffic is another Dr. Atmo project on Fax. Unlike the above,
it is good all the way through, though nothing on it's as gemmy as Walk.
It's also a bit harsh, generally speaking. There's a lot of 303 and high,
flanged percussion, with high repetitive synth lines and while it's nice
and relaxing, musically it has a dry feel about it. This subsides as the
album progresses from fast and dancey to slow and more mysterious.
... ... ...
Wilder is thought later to have said the following:
> The second Silvania album, Paisaje III, is very close to this
> ambient style, though they sing on most of their songs. Anyway they
> can give to that sound sensations of melancholy, beauty, and sweet
> pornography. Paisaje is a real gem.
Mind spewing about this a little? I'd like to know more about it based on
what you said. Is it difficult to find? Label info, etc would be nice.
Thanks. :)
> Just to say that a great local band will release some stuff
> on a sampler cd, their influences are slowdive's sound ala catch the
> breeze, erik's song, silvania's shoegazer phase and some guitars a la
> play fortoday, aforest, primary from cure. They're really great.
Am I reading this wrong or did you forget to mention the name of the band
you're referring to? I assume it's not Silvania if they have 2+ albums
out...?
einexile da EGO-FREAK!
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:08:48 +0100
.>For love 10":
>"Steve, yah, bloody good bloke." / "Miki? Face like a bulldog chewing a wasp!"
>For love 12":
>"Chris - does a lotta work for charity" / "see that Emma from Lush?
>-dyin' for it!"
etc. etc.
Erh! I got it a bit wrong, sorry!
I was, after all, doing it from memory...
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 01:49:02 +0600
Fri, 31 May 1996 01:11:22 -0400
> I remember hearing about black rose way back when on
> this list...it sounded interesting, and so I went on a
> search for their material. As *always* with obscure
> must-get thislisty music, it was easier said than done.
For heaven sakes ppl., all you need to do is call 1-800-CD-LASER and pay their
slightly overpriced charge of $14 for *Black Rose* (Into the Glass House, and
they can probably get the other one too). Don't kill yourself wading through
Dokken and Whitesnake!
-cz
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:25:25 +0100
einexile the meek
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 02:25:54 PDT
I picked up "Eardrum Buzz" at the weekend on disc, specifically for
Ahead 12 remix. Call me half asleep, but I noticed that credits are to
Lewis / Gilbert and Newman. Now I know why Wire gets mentioned
on this list so often.
I thought "The Ideal Copy" was a brilliant LP. Any comments on the similarities
between Wire and the old 4AD Lewis / Gilbert / Newman works?
To party or not to party, that is not the question...
How much is
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 06:58:15 -0400
>On Wed, 29 May 1996, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>> > - Szotlan Szerelmed Veszeeiben Van Mindig
>> > - Szerelmuk Tortenete
>>
>> Does that mean anything?
>
>Sorry my Hungarian is a bit rusty, but here goes:
> Your Wordless Love is Always On Their Mind
> The Story of Their Love
>
>-- Andras Salamon [email protected]
My Hungarian source suggested:
The story of our love always lies in the dangers
your wordless love
but added that the third word was misspelled.
Anyway, something like that.
Larry
The more things change, the more they...y'know, start to look different and
stuff...
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:29:15 -0400
I first got excited about vini riley's guitarplaying about
five seconds after playing morrissey's Viva Hate for the
first time. Next day i ran out and bought a d-c disc.
The two d-c discs i am familiar with are
entitled 'the guitar and other machines' from about
1987 and the newest one entitled 'sex and death'.
I can highly recommend the former, especially on the
american cd format which gets four extra tracks over
the uk cd and vinyl. Sex and Death is much less inventive,
imho. vini also has some solo stuff out there, an lp and
a couple of eps i think. The supersonic guide has links
to every uk band imaginable, and i would think therez a
d-c discography on the wwweb someplace.
btw, if anybody has or finds a 7" entitled 'i know very
well i got my note wrong' attached to a japanese
vini riley cd, email me?
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:18:11 -0400
ticketmaster just posted info for this show on their site.
july 21, michigan theater. reserved seating. showtime 7:30.
tickets go onsale next friday, june 7, at 10a.m.
and on a related note (?), the much disputed location
of the detroit cocteau twins show june 15 is The Sanctum
in pontiac michigan, according to ticketmaster. these
tickets go onsale tomorrow morning at 10 a.m., general
admission. the sanctum holds 1200 people, so get in line
early?
dan
who couldnt be happier now that he thinks he will be seeing
2 of his all time goods within a month or so....
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:28:05 +0000
LUSH will appear on Late Night w/ Conan O'Brien show on June 7
(Friday.)
jamin
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:53:38 EDT
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:27:55 -0700
rainboy wrote:
> > one..can anyone point me in the direction of bands/albums using
> > the methods and sounds such as slowdive's pygmalion album?
> > i find it interesting and beautiful in its simplicity and
> > minimalist attitude...
I see a kind of (unnamed) micro-genre that "Pygmalion" fits into in a
way. Other albums include:
Talk Talk "Spirit of Eden" and esp. "Laughing Stock"
Bark Psychosis "Hex" (plus some of the stuff on their "Independency" comp)
They're all quiet (although with sudden unexpected crashes of noise in
some places) contemplative, echoey/reverby, and jazzlike in their
instrumentation and, in some way I have trouble explaining, in their use
of space. And very sad and sleepy. "Laughing Stock" and "Hex" are
essential, two of the best albums of this decade in my opinion (along
with "Pygmalion".)
> > two..im also in search of bands/albums not unlike the sound of
> > slowdive's ambient/electronic insturmentals "good day
> > sunshine" and "missing you"..anyone who can help me find
> > things similar to this as well will be praised..
Only thing that comes to mind is the track "An Elan" on the newish
Cocteau Twins single "Tishbite" (CD #2, the blue one.) A gorgeous song,
one of the most beautiful things they've done since "Victorialand". It's
built around a very faint tapping beat and a single guitar chord that
holds until you can't stand it anymore (in a good way) and then it builds
into one of those patented Cocteau Twins climaxes.
__________ ___________________ ________________________
Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator [email protected] [work]
[email protected] [play]
"Bobby, jiggle Grandpa's rat so it looks alive, please."
_____________________________
http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens/
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:30:30 EDT
Kristin Hersch played an excellent concert recently in Providence at the Met
Cafe. Every performance by her or the Throwing Muses is always good, but
what made this concert extra special was the space she played in. The Met Cafe
is one of those small bars where the farthest point from the stage is 15 ft.
As a result it felt like she was playing in your living room or something. As
usual the performance was top notch. And that gaze of hers. For those of you
who want a dub of that concert, give me an email. I think there were 4 new
songs as well as her solo stuff.
Also Lush is playing a free concert in downtown Prov at the WaterPlace park.
The date of the concert is June 6 at 5:00. I don't know the exact street names
but it is quite easy to find. Head towards the Capitol building if coming from
downtown and away if at the Capitol. Two other bands are opening. This should
be fun and its free.
[email protected]
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:28:45 -0700
according to the march records tour schedule thing on their
web site, godzuki will be appearing with hnia from august 21-25
on the east coast...
unlucky west coaster,
k
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:34:24 U
I just got a CD from a friend by Moonshake called "dirty and divine".
It says on the cover it features mary hansen from stereolab (she does backing
vocals on one song really).
I like the CD though. Who are Moonshake? They sound a lot like Laika, any
relation????
-deemie-
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:20:53 -0400
rainboy asketh:
>> one..can anyone point me in the direction of bands/albums using
>> the methods and sounds such as slowdive's pygmalion album?
>> i find it interesting and beautiful in its simplicity and minimalist
attitude...
I apologize if people are sick of seeing these names mentioned over and over,
but they're essential ones... and I repeat them for the benefit of those who
are curious and yet-untouched by their uncommon talents.
(PS - my main man, Jens, beat me to the TT/BP - but I'd written this last
night and didn't get a chance to send it 'til now... sorry for the
repetition)
---in the " I can't believe that nobody's mentioned these yet" column:
1) "Pygmalion," as Bart Le Moo (who knows more than a thing or two about
beautiful Slowdive-y music...) so correctly states in Milkbone #11, is almost
out-and-out plagarism of BARK PSYCHOSIS' "Hex" album. (Yet another chance to
plug "Hex," my all-time #1 album. Yay! :-D) Beyond "Hex," BP's first
recordings, "Nothing Feels/All Different Things" are early (successful)
attempts at the fusion of technology and heart which makes "Hex" so
incomparable. . . everything else they've released finds BP exploring all
possible facets of their sound - techno, dub, industrial, experimental,
synth-laced pop, etc. Their cover of Wire's "3-Girl Rhumba" is a total
deconstruction of an erstwhile Elastica cover into ...seductive Barry
White-esque lounge music! A peerless band.
2) "Hex" itself is (almost illegally) reminiscent of TALK TALK's masterful
"Spirit of Eden" and "Laughingstock" albums. Earlier TT is a frighteningly
cheesy dayglo(tm) synthpop nightmare (you remember them from heavy-MTV
rotation in the '80s. That's your cue to wince). But the band pulled a
complete turn-around from junk to genius with 1988's "Spirit of Eden." Richly
textured, frightfully well-produced (maybe one of the best production jobs
ever; check Tim Friese-Greene's subsequent work on the first Catherine Wheel
LP, too) - and so far beyond 'rock' that very few have yet come close. Except
for their next album, "Laughingstock," which makes SoE seem almost naive.
It's a work of legendary brilliance, and it's in this album's very obvious
shadow that "Pygmalion" resides.
3) when MAURICE DEEBANK was the lead guitarist for Felt (first four albums
only), they had a crystalline (and anything but 'antiseptic') beauty and
sparkle which "Pygmalion" recalls. Deebank's only solo album, "Inner Thought
Zone," eliminates the annoying Dylan-leanings of bandmate Laurence (of Denim)
and is unutterably beautiful. "So Serene," "Dance of Deliverance, and "A Tale
>From Scriabins Lonely Trail" especially conjure the same magical balance of
weighted space and rippling melody as Bark Psychosis and late Talk Talk.
4) WINDY & CARL and ROY MONTGOMERY both capture Roy M's flights of guitar
fancy. Montgomery is more serene and reflective... sketching vaporous images
with a few well-chosen notes and tones. W&C (esp. on "Portal") can be a bit
more bombastic, filling space (in all senses of the word) with shuddering
keyboard drones and Silver Apples-like oscillations (their cover of "Program"
is a wonder in itself).
5) EYELESS IN GAZA use silence and musical tension in a way very similar to
"Pygmalion." Check out "Pale Hands That I Loved So Well," an almost-ambient
album from 1982 - recently reissued on CherryRed, rich with overtones,
undertones, and intertones which defy the minimalist nature of the music.
MARTYN BATES' solo albums - esp. his "isolationist folk" interpretations of
James Joyce's poetry, "Chamber Music" 1 and 2, fit in splendidly with the
BP/TT/MD/Slowdive mood and sound - with the added Celtic lilt of Bates'
vocals.
6) CARMINE, the French collective which has something to do with Karina
Square Records, add a bit of Pram and Young Marble Giants to the spacious
minimalist sound of "Pygmalion." Replace the time-stretching samples on
"Trellisaze" and "Miranda" with hints of flutes and keyboards, and you pretty
much have "Quadrille" and "Non, Ne Discute Pas La Verite" from their album,
"Lumielle." Shame that they insist on dabbling in harmlessly
passive/aggressive punky sounds as well, but when they're 'on' (most of the
time...), they're on!
7) ECSTASY OF ST THERESA's much-maligned "Free-D: Original Soundtrack" is
probably the ideal follow-up to "Pygmalion." It's ironic that both Slowdive
and EoST followed the shoegaze-into-ambient paths, but EoST arrived there
first. Long and complex songs built around sparse samples, bits of guitar,
and Irna's flickering vocals. An extraordinary album, sadly drubbed for its
overt "ambience." Okay, we could do without the animal sounds - but credit
EoST for trying something daring, ahead of its time, and uncommon.
a few more...
Lucid - demanding but rewarding, extremely subtle sounds built around samples
and bits of pure instrumental tones. HNIA stripped of all 'rock' elements?
shiFt - where Slowdive, EoST, and Aphex Twin meet
Once Dreamt - early incarnation of Windy & Carl, including members of Fuxa...
AR Kane - esp. early EPs like "Up Home," "Lollita," and "Love/Sick" and the
69 LP
Insides - "Clear Skin" (takes a while to get going, but just bear with it!)
HoedH - Hymnvs - exceptional ambience, sounds much like early Slowdive as
arranged
by Klaus Schulze and orchestrated by Philip Glass
Spring Heel Jack - "The Sea Lettuce" EP - Jungle, yes... but their first
foray into the fold is also a magnificent piece
of subaquatic ambient dreaminess.
Durutti Column - approach with caution, but certain albums (esp. "Vini
Reilly") do indeed
have the same feel as "Pygmalion." He's a prolific
sonofagun,though...
and VERY uneven.
Silvania - Paisaje III is exquisite. . . Seefeel/Slowdive/Insides ambience
with
instrumental treatments which sound positively unearthly.
Earlier Silvania is more "Just For a Day," and their recent
"Avolvara" 7" is a brilliant slice of
Main/Labradford isolationism.
Verve - early Verve (and the 'bootleg' "Voyager One" live album) are so
spaced out that they orbit within the same timeless
frame/mindstate as "Pygmalion."
Electric Company - Brad Laner's solo project occasionaly lightens up on the
noise and achieves that perfect union of
ambience and atmosphere
which makes "Pygmalion" so much more than just
another
FSOL-ish jaunt through trippy/spacey waters.
Oh dear. :( I could go on and on and on. But I won't.
"You're quite welcome, 4AD-L."
Rainboy, if you want more information and recommendations, feel free to
contact me: [email protected]
GuerillaG - - - hopelessly exceeding his 200-word limit
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 17:56:09 -0400
> > > one..can anyone point me in the direction of bands/albums using
> > > the methods and sounds such as slowdive's pygmalion album?
> > > i find it interesting and beautiful in its simplicity and
> > > minimalist attitude...
>
> This is a very difficult album to compare anything to literally, and I
> think I may go out on a Durutti Column hunt tomorrow thanks to Wilder's
> reply. Early work by AR Kane such as 69 and the ep(s?) released on 4AD
> have been likened to Pygmalion but I find it a bit grating personally. I
> can however point you at two records (the only two I know of, actually)
> that share Pygmalion's darkly intimate, psychologically tormented
> atmosphere:
>
> His Name Is Alive - Home Is in Your Head
Home is in your Head is simply wonderful, for me the best
HNIA album, and one of the best albums of the decade.
If someone who is reading this doesn't have this jewel: "hey,
make you a favor and get it!!"
> Wilder is thought later to have said the following:
>
> > The second Silvania album, Paisaje III, is very close to this
> > ambient style, though they sing on most of their songs. Anyway they
> > can give to that sound sensations of melancholy, beauty, and sweet
> > pornography. Paisaje is a real gem.
>
> Mind spewing about this a little? I'd like to know more about it based on
> what you said.
Paisaje III has alot influence from 5ep, though they put on
more beautiful details, more ambient sounds. E.g the first song on
it, Nino Unicornio, has a minimalist begining with a sound that lasts
all the song whic finishes with a wondrous increscendo of extended
sounds, that is really mindblowing. They put too some nice guitars ala
Durutti Column, and the singer voice -a man- is another sweet detail,
all these combinations of sounds and sensations make this ambient
very special, very lovely.
Oh you really should hear silvania's stuff.
> Is it difficult to find? Label info, etc would be nice.
> Thanks. :)
Silvania release all their discs in Spain labels.
The first ep, Miel Nube Hiel, is on Experience Records.
All the other releases is on Elefant Records.
But i know Slumberland -here in the net- has some of their
cds. So it's not so difficult to find them.
I know they have 2 new releases which i still don't have them.
An ep, Avalovara, which was released on March.
An a cd of silvania's song covered by known ambient bands, i
dont know exactly which bands come but i'm sure that Autechre plays on
it.
Can someone post more information about this?
> > Just to say that a great local band will release some stuff
> > on a sampler cd, their influences are slowdive's sound ala catch the
> > breeze, erik's song, silvania's shoegazer phase and some guitars a la
> > play fortoday, aforest, primary from cure. They're really great.
>
> Am I reading this wrong or did you forget to mention the name of the band
> you're referring to? I assume it's not Silvania if they have 2+ albums
> out...?
>
Sorry, the name of the band is Claroscuro, but the mainman
told me they're more probably going to change of name, anyway they
dont have anything released.
As he's my friend i have on tape a kind of 7" demo that
is really great.
The sampler cd will be release soon -July- according to his
information.
Regards.
Wilder.
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 19:12:06 -0500
On Fri, 31 May 1996, Nadim Baki-Zada wrote:
> I just got a CD from a friend by Moonshake called "dirty and divine".
> It says on the cover it features mary hansen from stereolab (she does backing
> vocals on one song really).
> I like the CD though. Who are Moonshake? They sound a lot like Laika, any
> relation????
Oh no! Laika splintered off Moonshake in '93 or 4. Callahan, the
Moonshake Man, keeps at his thing though he appears lost in a big
cloud of smoke behind Laika. Credit to laika though for a killer
record.
If you like that moonshake record as well as laika, you'll prolly
like all their stuff. The "big good angel" ep is a good place to
start.
kagin