4ad-l Mail for 02-31-1996

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: LUSH
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:59:45 -0600
From: zelzah (zelzah@SAT.NET)
Subject: Ask Bel Canto your questions -- here's how!
Date: 24 Jan 1996 02:14:33 -0500
From: elevenshad@aol.com (ElevenShad)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:33:41 GMT
From: Paul Spirito (spiritop@WINTHROP.SLIC.COM)
Subject: Re: spoonfed...
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:15:09 -0600
From: a bear of very little brain (hk@NEOSOFT.COM)
Subject: yet another Elysium show!
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:15:06 -0800
From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:36:25 -0500
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:06:31 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: Everything's gone green
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:32 -0600
From: zelzah (zelzah@SAT.NET)
Subject: Re: new Cindytalk
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:30:58 -0500
From: TS61822@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:30:24 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Eden does not equal DCD
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:39:24 EST
From: David Boughey (dboughey@MGDESTMX01.ERIN.GOV.AU)
Subject: ESP Summer
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:37:13 -0800
From: [suppressed]
Subject: luscious live recording
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:00:34 -0800
From: lushmuse (lushmuse@EA.OAC.UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:42:47 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: CT's "circling girl"
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:44:21 -0500
From: bruce levenstein (bruceL@INTERRAMP.COM)
Subject: Re: LUSH
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:07:25 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: Michael Brooks and U. Srinivas
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:16 -0700
From: "E. L. Cable" (ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:57:25 -0400
From: ash (ash@dhp.com)
Subject: Ooops upside your head...say ooops upside your head
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:24:17 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: spoonfed...
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:05:12 +0000
From: Richard Clemens (Richard.Clemens@ucsalf.ac.uk)
Subject: Objectivity, schmobjectivity [was: Lush's Shining Road]
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:34:54 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: Mephisto Walz
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:45:23 EST
From: marianne hodge (HODGEM@stjohns.edu)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:58:04 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:59:28 +0000
From: Jaax Lawson (jaax@ARIA3.LYON.ARCHI.FR)
Subject: Re: The whole pixies / breeders / belly strain...
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:54:31 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Other lists..?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:11:12 -0800
From: "E. Coli" (n9546853@BEAKER.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 05:12:28 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: unsuscribe
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:50:04 +0100
From: LUCIUS GOMEZ Ruben (egalugor@BS.EHU.ES)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:09 EDT
From: Christopher A Michaels/Instnl/VGI
Subject: Re: To Englands
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:30:23 +0000
From: "Roger Brewster (Wedge)" (bu6010@WLV.AC.UK)
Subject: The Birthday Party/Lydia Lunch (help me, please!)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 22:51:44 +0300
From: "Igor V. Vaganoff" (igo@DONWAVE.RND.SU)
Subject: Re: 4AD website
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:23:36 -0400
From: Scott Anderson (humgiant@USER1.CHANNEL1.COM)
Subject: age against the machine
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:27:36 EDT
From: Christopher A Michaels/Instnl/VGI
Subject: teensy amt. of 4AD content, lotsa name stuff
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:00 PST
From: "Heileson, Thomas" (heilts1@MPE11.GHC.ORG)
Subject: Re: Everything's gone green
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:57:23 -0600
From: "Jose A. Garcia Triana Camil" (pepegtc@HALCON.LAGUNA.UAL.MX)
Subject: Re: Objectivity, schmobjectivity
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:34:52 -0500
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Names Query -- HNIA
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:52:39 -0800
From: Delphine Eunice Hwang (delfy@uclink2.berkeley.edu)
Subject: Re: LUSH
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:47:37 +0000
From: Jason Wintz (moran@HAL-PC.ORG)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:51:21 -0500
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: thinning the herd
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:40:05 -0500
From: Quinn Devine (devine@SUN1.ENGR.UTK.EDU)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:54:30 -0600
From: "Jose A. Garcia Triana Camil" (pepegtc@HALCON.LAGUNA.UAL.MX)
Subject: Clubs in London / Israel (one twentieth - 4ad)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:47:52 PST
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: PIAS Benelux back on the World Wide Web
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:20:51 +0100
From: Huite Rietveld (huite@XS4ALL.NL)
Subject: 4AD release schedule update
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:27:31 +0100
From: Huite Rietveld (huite@XS4ALL.NL)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:12:04 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: new cindytalk/Tour
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:54:19 -0400
From: "Rick W." (rickaroo@TIAC.NET)
Subject: charnel
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:12:46 -0800
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: record Shops/No 4AD/a request/
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:03 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: To Englands
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:45:20 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Objectivity, schmobjectivity
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:29:08 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: FS: autechre, disjecta...
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:31:51 -0500
From: bruce levenstein (bruceL@INTERRAMP.COM)
Subject: Re: HNIA Promo - Man on the Silver Mountain
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:54:44 -0800
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Everything's gone green
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:23:46 -0500
From: lorelei tremolor (lfl3858@IS2.NYU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Heidi Berry - bargain imports
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:18:29 -0500
From: "Vt Barry@Aol.Com" (VTBarry@AOL.COM)
Subject: seeking blur and slowdive list adresses
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:05:57 -0500
From: NWND@GROVE.IUP.EDU
Subject: Re: Other lists..?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:01:28 -0600
From: Stratton Davis (stratt@E-TEX.COM)
Subject: Re: The whole pixies / breeders / belly strain...
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:10 -0600
From: Space Ghost Poncherello (jrcampbe@MAIL.PITTSTATE.EDU)
Subject: Re: To Englands
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:36:12 EST
From: marianne hodge (HODGEM@stjohns.edu)
Subject: Shotgun samples
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:42 -0800
From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: LUSH
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:04:12 +0100
From: Jaax Lawson (jaax@ARIA3.LYON.ARCHI.FR)
Subject: Re: American / UK Wolfgang differences
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:14:57 -0500
From: "Rodney......who should really be working now......."
Subject: Re: ESP Summer
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:46:45 -0600
From: a bear of very little brain (hk@NEOSOFT.COM)
Subject: Frequently Asked Questions
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:00:23 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD-L Digest - 29 Jan 1996 to 30 Jan 1996
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:50:39 PST
From: Christopher Winfield (winfield@MATH.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: charnel
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:10:09 -0700
From: Chadwick Dorton (cdorton@SLCPL.SLCPL.LIB.UT.US)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:20:17 -0600
From: zelzah (zelzah@SAT.NET)

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:59:45 -0600
From: zelzah (zelzah@SAT.NET)
Subject: Re: LUSH


At 12:09 PM 1/30/96 CST, you wrote:
>Why do I feel like I'm the only person in the whole entire world that loves
>SPOOKY as much as anything else Lush has done (including SPLIT)???
>
>
No, you're not... there are silent people out there who love them just as
much as we do.  Yes, WE because you're not alone.  Actually I like them all
somewhat equally.  I can't put favorites when it comes to lush.  I keep
hearing that the new stuff sucks but I don't know.... I'm getting it, Single
Girl, this weekend so I guess I have to judge for myself.  I mean, look what
they are saying about "Lionia"  ...and i thought that album was brilliant.
Not as good as HiiYH but it certainly did not suck.

-zelzah!


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:43:08 -0500
From: anaconda (anaconda@wwa.com)
Subject: Ask Bel Canto your questions -- here's how! (fwd)


saw this on USENET but no mention of it here........

e...this one is for you ..

-------- Forwarded message --------

Date: 24 Jan 1996 02:14:33 -0500
From: elevenshad@aol.com (ElevenShad)
Subject: Ask Bel Canto your questions -- here's how!


I have the possibility of interviewing Bel Canto by telephone for Muse
Magazine (their webpage is:  http://www.val.net/VillageSounds/Muse/  ),
which is created by John Koenig.  The interview, if it comes to pass
(which seems quite likely) will be on this web page.

What five questions would you like to see answered in the interview by Bel
Canto?  I would prefer music-related questions, such as the creation of
music, the songwriting process, recording process, etc., rather than
personal or music business-related questions. ---------

In the interest of time, please email me, as well as posting, by 5:00 p.m.
Pacific Standard Time, Wed., January 24.

Thank you for your time!  I hope this works out!!!

Ken/Eleven Shadows

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:33:41 GMT
From: Paul Spirito (spiritop@WINTHROP.SLIC.COM)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:09 EDT, Chris M wrote:

>Go on and say it, some of the newer
>4AD bands are bad!  Something happened in the late 80's and I think
>I know what it is.  Ian McCulloch once said E&TB were about being
>'better', and I think this applies to a lot of the groups on 4AD in the 80's.
>The bands I was attracted to were the ones who cared more about the
>music then themselves/stardom.  The music came first, not the 'look' or the
>'sound'.
>The bands were honest, and you could tell every song meant a great deal
>to them.  I felt this way about RHP when I first heard 'Down Colorful Hill'.
>Same goes for Pale Saints.  But bands like that seen to be few and far
>between on 4AD and other labels.

Alternate explanation: you're getting older and lament the lost music
of your youth. Perhaps some day you can direct a remake of "The Big
Chill" with a 60s Motown = 80s 4AD map.

Paul,
who laments the inadequacy of masturbation.

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:15:09 -0600
From: a bear of very little brain (hk@NEOSOFT.COM)
Subject: Re: spoonfed...


>ESP is available at Vinyl Ink
>

Or you can save $2 and order direct from Farrago:

Farrago Records
P.O. Box 13148
Houston, Texas 77219

The 10" is going for $6.50 each, postpaid US.  Inquire within for overseas
postage rates.

Sorry 'bout the rampant mercantilism....  :)


hk
--
hk kahng | hk@neosoft.com & farrago@delphi.com
         | http://www.neosoft.com/~hk/home.htm
         | hey, look! i'm picasso!

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:15:06 -0800
From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: yet another Elysium show!


Once again, Elysium plays this Saturday night,
Feb 3 at the Impala Cafe in Downtown Los Angeles,
formerly known as the Troy Cafe.

418 E 1st Street at Alameda. 9:00 pm. Bring a buddy.
Also playing are Closedown (either one of the best dreampop
bands on the planet, or a bunch of noise wankers, depending
on which set they play) and Instagon (I know nothing about them).
CDs and the new 7" will be available, alas still without sleeves :(

For 24 hour a day, 7 day a week info on Elysium, call 213-812-6795.

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:36:25 -0500
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road


dearest martin, e, etc....

my prev. post was not interested in the cut n paste indulogence it seems
to have spawned... nor is it (or are many I wood thunk) interested in
having its grammer corrected... welcome to the internet. guess what, typos
happen.

also on the subjective vs. objective note... no shit subjective taste is
what's going on here. In my request for a few objective comments, I am
merely suggesting that instead of the hyperbolic proclamation of "Lush
(or fill in any other title here) is crap"...  why not talk about our
tastes in a way that everyone can benefit from? I personally get very
little from somebody else's 'review' of a disc when they rant on and on
about how much they hate it. It doesn't make me want to either buy it or
pan it... it in short tells me nothing except that the writer has an axe
to grind.

Much like the british press which is intensley responsible for MUCH bad
music journalism as well as sensationalizing/playing king maker/or
scapegoating... a 'review' such as this one accomplishes nothing except
needles 'flamage'

I thought this was a forum for exchanging information about 4AD artists.
If I was interested in the kind of reviews I have seen in this case, I
would simply pick up a copy of some sensationalist rag. There is a
neutral language for discussing this, mankinds most subject of
passions... I merely suggest some of us learn better to use it instead of
making selfinflating proclamations of taste.


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:06:31 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Me wrote:

> Personal plea:
>   can we please not use the word "ethereal" again ? :)
> thenk u :)
>
Hell, it's gotta be better than "swirly." :)

Martin

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:32 -0600
From: zelzah (zelzah@SAT.NET)
Subject: Re: Everything's gone green


Okay, I think we all know it's new order now.  no need to post it over and
over again right after everyone has posted it already, give us a break.  i
mean, can we get back to 4ad now?

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:30:58 -0500
From: TS61822@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: new Cindytalk


>Has anyone heard the new album yet?  I saw it in Tower this past
>weekend but it was over $20!  I want to hear it or at least some
>decent reviews about it before I fork out that much money for a
>domestic release (at least it's alot of money for a starving
>student).

>Holly

well if are talking about wappinschaw, which has been out for some time, i
found it mixed. many of the songs are cindytalks harsh grinding sort of
stuff, but his great cover of "first time ever i saw your face" is very
melodic and the track "snowkiss" ranks as my favorite cindytalk song of all
time. the piece actually has dubbed samples from the in this world tracks
from the double album set.

my advice would be to get it

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:30:24 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road


Joseph Burns writes:
>there's nothing wrong with saying you don't like what a band is up to,
>but come on nobay wants to listen to a tirade like that. state a few
>objective reasons why you don't like it and let others decide for themselves.

Recent discussions aside, this stuff is not science. If we were to
restrict ourselves to "objective reasons" we'd end up just listing the
track titles and lengths. Yawn. Anything we say here about music,
including why we like it or not, is opinion. And an opinion that's stated
in detail is more interesting than some brief & useless thing like "I
didn't like it because it sounded too much like Elastica" which is the
caliber of most of the previous commentary on Lush's new stuff.

I have no problem with people disagreeing about opinions of a band, but
calling somebody an asshole because his strongly-stated opinion disagreed
with yours is childish. If you think he was wrong, write a good review in
which you put across your opinion, and let the rest of us choose. Let
that be your assignment for today. If you can't come up with a coherent
and interesting review, may I paraphrase your mom and suggest "if you
can't say something nice, and you can't say something that's at least
well-written, don't say anything at all?"

A good example of how things _ought_ to work was the recent His Name Is
Alive thread -- in response to some people's dismissal of "Livonia",
other people wrote some quite interesting responses telling what they
found so interesting about that album, or why they found it uninteresting
but HNIA's other album's interesting. Even speaking as someone who
doesn't like the band, I found it a good [th]read.

__________
Jens Alfke __________________          _________________________
           jens@mooseyard.com          http://www.inow.com/~jens
       ________________________________________________________________
       This segment's question is whether the 7th angle of the diatonic
       flange grids should be amended! Blue or amber?

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:39:24 EST
From: David Boughey (dboughey@MGDESTMX01.ERIN.GOV.AU)
Subject: Eden does not equal DCD


Dmitri Bender said

 >In fact, it's unlikely to be another DCD ripoff (like, say, Eden
>- I have nothing against Eden though, mind you) as all musicians invloved
>are to one or another degree Persian born people and hence inherited
>great deal of skill in performing Persian folk music

And was not the only one to recently make such comments about Eden.

I agree that there are similarities between Eden's first album and a lot of DCD
work, although I would argue that Gateway is more consistently atmospheric
throughout.  However, I do not think that Eden's more recent work - "Fire and
Rain" and the versions on "Earthbound" have much to do with DCD at all.  So even
if you could consider their early work a "ripoff", i think they have moved on
since then.

Charismatic Megafauna ..  David

Oh, and yes, silverchair is from Australia.  Some consider it our best export
since airsupply :)


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:37:13 -0800
From: [suppressed]
Subject: ESP Summer


Does anyone have any info on this?  How many were pressed, how hard it is
to find, what it's worth?  This was posted on the list before, but I
forgot.(A local store has one for $8, are they nutty or are these things
being re-released?)


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:00:34 -0800
From: lushmuse (lushmuse@EA.OAC.UCI.EDU)
Subject: luscious live recording


hi!

i know there has been a lot of slagging on the new lush eps, and to some
degree i agree with some of ppl on this list who are not too impressed
with the new sound...i hated "single girl" when i first heard it but now,
it kinda grew on me so it's not that bad...i do like "tinkerbell", but i
think the version on "volume" is better.  i thought "lady killers" was
crap at first too but now i really like the song.  so i think the rest of
the stuff just might grow on me in time.

but anyways, i was looking at the lush discography and i saw a fairly
good lush live recording called "luscious" or something like that...but
does anyone know anything about it?

any info would be great appreciated!

thanks!

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:42:47 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Paul Spirito wrote:

> Paul,
> who laments the inadequacy of masturbation.
>
Have you tried it with a Salad Shooter?

Martin

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:44:21 -0500
From: bruce levenstein (bruceL@INTERRAMP.COM)
Subject: CT's "circling girl"


just got a copy of Volume 15 with the new cocteau twins song on it. all i
can say is that i was damned near in tears listening to this. i'm talking
about tears of joy. the song is definitely older style cocteau twins. wall
of guitars, beautiful vocals & melody, the whole bit. i hope the whole new
album doesn't sound like this, because it would be a giant musical leap
backwards, but i wouldn't mind a couple of tracks like this. go find
yourself a copy today and renew your faith...

-bruce

 ---------------------------------------------
 |       C is for CLARA who wasted away      |
 ---------------------------------------------
 | bruce levenstein     brucel@interramp.com |
 ---------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:07:25 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: LUSH


On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Me wrote:

> >Why do I feel like I'm the only person in the whole entire world that loves
> >SPOOKY as much as anything else Lush has done (including SPLIT)???
> >
> You are not alone Melody...i listened to it last night...and it is STILL
> great! See i can like bands too!

Spooky is gorgeous. Pffft to all who disagree.

Martin


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:16 -0700
From: "E. L. Cable" (ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA)
Subject: Re: Michael Brooks and U. Srinivas


The Michael Brook / U. Srinivas effort is entitled _Dream_ and it came
out on Realworld last year (late spring if I remember correctly).  It
features only four tracks; however each is quite long with the shortest
being track three "Run".  It is terrific in that they combine the melodic
elements of Indian music with the contemporary guitar.  East meets west
so to speak.  If you see it I highly recommend you pick it up.  Currently
the cd living in my stereo is the Hector Zazou / Harold Budd
collaboration entitled _Glyph_.  I've only had it a couple of days now
but it seems to me it is the ultimate in cold weather listening music.

I've heard Michael Brook has got some other stuff on the go including a
collaborative work with Daniel Lanois.  I have also heard that Brook is
now a producer for Realworld.  Can any one confirm this?  Does this mean
he'll no longer be with 4AD?


X  Elaun L. Cable        x  Rm. 127 MacEwan Hall   x "My life suits    X
X  Spoken Word Director  x  University of Calgary  x  me very well..." X
X  CJSW 90.9 fm          x  Calgary, AB            x                   X
X                        x  T2N 4N1                x                   X
X      ecable@acs.ucalgary.ca    /    cable@freenet.calgary.ab.ca      X

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Joseph Burns wrote:

> Dont know much about U. Srinivas or eddie (ack) vedder... but are we
> =talking about the Michael Brooks lp that was just released called
> 'Colbalt Blue'?   though it seems this disc is a compilation of early
> stuff....
>

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:57:25 -0400
From: ash (ash@dhp.com)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+


Joseph Burns wrote:
>
> dearest martin, e, etc....
>
> my prev. post was not interested in the cut n paste indulogence it seems
> to have spawned...

and

> I thought this was a forum for exchanging information about 4AD artists.
> If I was interested in the kind of reviews I have seen in this case, I
> would simply pick up a copy of some sensationalist rag. There is a
> neutral language for discussing this, mankinds most subject of
> passions... I merely suggest some of us learn better to use it instead of
> making selfinflating proclamations of taste.

and a great deal more. just wanted to say that i think you brought
up a valid point and offer my agreement.
i tend to get really excited when i come home and find i've got some
thirty or forty messages to download. however, i find that 9/10ths
of it invariably consists of idiotic flamage and self-important
group/release assessments. it's rather unfortunate. were it not for
the fact that i occasionally find some really interesting and
valuable info about a several groups i listen to, i'd have unsubbed
because of it. it just wears me down to look at it, or even flip
through it.
obviously it's not everyone... and frankly, i'm not interested in
naming names, but i'm just not sure why everyone has to tear the
bands and fellow listies apart so vehemently on isolated events.

one word... RE-fucking-LAX.

life's too stupid to take everything so seriously.
and yes, i realize somebody's going to flame me on this post. that's
just the way of the world. oh well.

byefornow...
             K-

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:24:17 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Ooops upside your head...say ooops upside your head


> What's more annoying? My posting a bid to the list or wasting even more
> space apologizing for it?

Niether.  A third person who has nothing to do with either of your messages
posting his own thoughts to the list is most annoying.  =)

Hey, whilst I'm here; Ivo is a complete and utter shmuck. If he wasn't; he
would have signed Stina Nordenstam when he had the chance.

Did anyone else happen to notice that the Cranes contributed to Keifer
Sutherland's psychopathic nature in "Eye for an Eye"?  I was falling asleep
until I heard the opening guitar strums of "Shining road"; at least I think
that was the song.  At any rate it is off _loved_ and i didn't even know they
had a video!  Boy does Alison look amazing...  *sigh*  I'm still upset that
she got laryngeitis when she was supposed to play in houston and cancelled.

Anyone out there have any Cranes videos?  Wanna trade?


marvynHortman                   ftp://sharedcast.hccs.cc.tx.us

"i'm not going to listen to this...satan is good...satan is your pal."

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:05:12 +0000
From: Richard Clemens (Richard.Clemens@ucsalf.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: spoonfed...


> For the many of you that have asked for mailing/ordering info for Ian
> MAsters/Spoonfed Hybrid:
>
> Spoonfed Hybrid
> 55 Ritherdon Rd
> London SW17 8QE
>
> the only price info I have is for a 7" of Scary Verlaine
> 3lbs UK
> 3.50 continent
> 4  US
> include postage and packing per copy
>

I just got the single from them. The prices for the single (stlg3 UK etc
are correct) the CD is stlg11 (sorry can't remember the overseas
prices).

I think there is an e-mail address on Scary Verlaine which I could
track down if someone wants it.

I general agreement with previous messages the single is better than
the album which I haven't got used to yet. I really like it but I was
hoping for more Chris Trout singing!

Richard

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:34:54 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Objectivity, schmobjectivity [was: Lush's Shining Road]


On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Joseph Burns wrote:

> my prev. post was not interested in the cut n paste indulogence it seems
> to have spawned... nor is it (or are many I wood thunk) interested in
> having its grammer corrected... welcome to the internet. guess what, typos
> happen.

Especially when one is too lazy to go back and correct them, as you
clearly are considering the above paragraph has more mistakes than most
people have in entire posts. "Or are many I wood thunk?" What the fuck
is that? If you can't use the English language properly, then
you should at least admit to this personal failing; otherwise, you have
no grounds to get all huffy when someone corrects you. Welcome to the
Internet indeed, where one is likely to encounter people whose opinions
differ from yours, and people who will call your mistakes to your
attention, _and_ people who will not be terribly impressed when you cop
an attitude over it. Frankly, I am that kind of person, and I don't
apologize for it.

> also on the subjective vs. objective note... no shit subjective taste is
> what's going on here. In my request for a few objective comments, I am
> merely suggesting that instead of the hyperbolic proclamation of "Lush
> (or fill in any other title here) is crap"...  why not talk about our
> tastes in a way that everyone can benefit from?

Once again, this is not objectivity; _any_ discussion of tastes will be
subjective. But once again, your misuse of English vocabulary is
what's leading to confusion here, because what you want has nothing to do
with
objectivity or subjectivity, but rather the attitude and demeanor of those
doing the posting. You want reviews to be oh so polite and civilized, not
merely hysterical NME-style acts of "they're shit, they suck" character
assassination passing as music criticism. On this point I would have to
agree with you; I would much rather read reviews that were without
emotional histrionics. But then I don't think e, whose review is what
started all of this (e, you do seem to have this effect on people, you
scoundrel), is really guilty of that. True, there was some level of
emotional outburst in his review, but as this was reflective of his
genuine disappointment with the single I think it was justified. The fact
is that e _did_ review the single, unlike the average British magazine
"critic" who will talk about himself, his cat, the weather, then call the
artist a prat or a wanker and then try to pass his urine sample off as a
review.

> I personally get very
> little from somebody else's 'review' of a disc when they rant on and on
> about how much they hate it. It doesn't make me want to either buy it or
> pan it... it in short tells me nothing except that the writer has an axe
> to grind.

I would be in agreement with much of this, particularly if the review
were the misguided NME-type I referred to in my last paragraph. At the
same time, I don't think this sort of thing goes on on this list too
much. People flame e and myself because our reviews are impassioned, but
I don't think I've ever just ranted on and on meaninglessly about
anything, even if I hated it. I always try to explain why.

> Much like the british press which is intensley responsible for MUCH bad
> music journalism as well as sensationalizing/playing king maker/or
> scapegoating... a 'review' such as this one accomplishes nothing except
> needles 'flamage'

See above: I agree here.

> I thought this was a forum for exchanging information about 4AD artists.
> If I was interested in the kind of reviews I have seen in this case, I
> would simply pick up a copy of some sensationalist rag. There is a
> neutral language for discussing this, mankinds most subject of
> passions... I merely suggest some of us learn better to use it instead of
> making selfinflating proclamations of taste.

Well, be careful here, because, for one thing, any "proclamation of
taste" (got the spelling on that one, good :-) ) is going to be to some
extent "selfinflating". The difference is whether or not the reviewer has
anything meaningful and intelligent to say, not simply the tone he brings
to his review. Saying "Lush are crap" is not intrinsically invalid, if
you're careful to outline why in detail. Saying "Lush are crap and anyone
who disagrees with me sucks dessicated elephant dicks," then leaving it
at that and ignoring all subsequent flamage (or worse, responding even
more offensively) contributes nothing. But then again, I must disagree
with you in that I don't see a whole lot of that on 4AD-L. I _do_ see a
lot of it some other lists I subscribe to, where it can get very
unpleasant. A good example would be Paperlate, the Genesis list, where
there is definite split between fans of Peter Gabriel-era Genesis and
Phil Collins-era, and quite often cases have arisen where little more is
going on on the list than a big pissing contest, with ultimately no point
to the entire exercise. I think the 4AD-list has
been much better overall in that regard, and much more worthwhile to read.

Keep 'em comin',

Martin

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:45:23 EST
From: marianne hodge (HODGEM@stjohns.edu)
Subject: Re: Mephisto Walz


>4r> does anyone listen to mephisto waltz here? i've only heard the
>4r> album with "al en asch" on it. thalia, i think it is. any
>4r> recommendations? i know a store that has a few of their albums,
>4r> so i want to know which to buy. as if i had any cuh-cash. cha-
>4r> chump, dave (desarg@mail.wm.edu) " "---charlie chaplin

Mephisto has a quite unique and beautiful instrumentaion, unlike
any other band I know.  Their guitars and melodies are quite
origianal.  I must add that their lyrics are quite deep and poetic,
some of which focus on myths and symbolism of pagan times, (if you are
able to recognize it).  Indeed, the refrain of "Protecteur" which was
recently quoted does sound somewhat simplistic, but this is not an
adequate example of the band's lyrical depth.  Besides, I must add
that this song is indeed quite powerful and beautiful.  Their style
and lyrics reflect what the band and, especially what Bari-Bari, the
song writer, is interested in - and do not seem in any way to be
exaggerated or ostentatious for merely a "theatrical /medieval"
effect.

It is not appropriate to compare this band to DCD, for they are not
similar, beyond the fact that they are both quite original (personally
i cannot compare any band to DCD where this catgory is concerned).
The lead singer, Christiana, sounds nothing like Lisa Gerrard.

"Terra Regina" is my favorite album by Mephisto, followed by "The
Eternal Deep".  I recommend them!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
marianne
hodgem@sjumusic.stjohns.edu
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:58:04 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


E recently offered this:
>On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Elvia M. Tarango wrote:
>
>> >> I'm sure as hell not buying the album without
>> >> hearing it first. All the way through and some change. How thoroughly
>> >> depressing.
>
>> >I absolutely concur.  I was so horrified.  What a piece of crap.
>
>> I will co-sign on this.  Lush has should disband.  All albums produced
>> before Spooky (excluding Spooky) was really great.  Spooky and thereafter,
>> forget it.
>
>Well that's certainly kind you you, since there *weren't* any Lush albums
>prior to Spooky. :) What have you got against Split? Can anyone seriously
>listen to the likes of Light from a Dead Star, Desire Lines, Undertow,
>Never-Never, When I Die, etc, and think, "This is utter crap, they should
>have broken up after Sweetness and Light!" I boggle at the absurdity of
>it.
>
>But then you kind of like Scheer, don't you? hehehe...
>
>
> e

There's e, at it again, attacking the person and not the idea. But, as e
pointed out to me recently:

>I think that if I were wrong others would respond to your posts, but few
>people >do.

 ==================== =======================================================
|                    |  "When the rainy season comes I hang my head          |
|  Russell           |   For all the things that I have seen and done        |
|  russellm@         |   and sung and said                                   |
|  xmission.com      |   And when my tears are dry, I hold my head up high   |
|                    |   and feel the rain"      -Rainy Season, Roddy Frame  |
 ==================== =======================================================

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:59:28 +0000
From: Jaax Lawson (jaax@ARIA3.LYON.ARCHI.FR)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road


>>I will co-sign on this.  Lush has should disband.  All albums produced
>>before Spooky (excluding Spooky) was really great.  Spooky and thereafter,
>>forget it.
>
>
>I will recieve Single Girl in 5 days... I=B4ll check if this is really true=
.
>But for the past albums, I have to say that Spooky IS the weakest of them
>all, while Split IS THEIR BEST ALBUM EVER (I just love When I Die and Kiss
>Chase)!

I don't know why  so many people are so hateful toward Lush
I agree with you for Split ,some songs of it have once made me CRY ....
Jaax

KILINC  Mustafa  kilinc@aria3.eal.fr
******************************

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:54:31 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: The whole pixies / breeders / belly strain...


On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Joseph Burns wrote:

>
>                 Pixies                          Throwing Muses
>         Frank Black - Kim Deal          Tonya           -       Kristen
>             |               |           |                         |
>         Frank Black           breeders                  more Throwing Muses
>             |                   |                                 |
>         stagnation              |                               stagnation
>                                 |
>                                         Tanya leaves
>                 Kelly Deal joins        forms Belly
>                         |                       \
>                 more Breeders                    \
>                         |                       lots of pleaasing things
>         Kelly goes to jail for heroin                   result via belly
>
>          |                      |
>          |                      |
>          |              Kim forms the Amps
>          |                      (but continues doing heroin)
>          |                                      |
           |                                      |
  Kelly meets some guy in recovery                |
    and forms Solid State who are                 |
 currently playing local gigs in the              |
Twin Cities (unknown quality,                     |
 I haven't seen them yet, mixed reviews)          |
                                                  |
                                           Kim's heroin addiction
                                        progresses and she finally
                               releases her long awaited TUBA HITS vol 1
                             rocketing her to superstardom and she runs
for presedent until her heroin addiction is revealed at which point she
goes into treatment and is released only to become an alchoholic and
finaly dies in a pool of her own vomit in some hollywood back alley at
which point Kim Deal MTV Live and Unplugged is released which goes
multiplatnum in it's first week inspiring hordes of clone ripoff bands to
pretend the all have heroin addictions and are full of angst, Ivo signs
all of these bands makes millions buys out the whole time/warner
multimedia empire and becomes the next donald trump, unfortunately his
heroin addiction runs rampant untill he overdoses and dies leaving the
whole thing to his cat, who is in fact an expert manager and leads the
new and improved 4ad to bigger and better things (including but not
limited to buing out friskies cat food)

mike
It's already been a long day and it's only 11

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:11:12 -0800
From: "E. Coli" (n9546853@BEAKER.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Other lists..?


Forgive my extreme and off-topic ignorance, but could someone please hook
me up with subscribtion info for the Cocteau Twins list that I saw
mentioned some time ago?

Also, is there an ambient list or an Orb list?

Thanks...

skye

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 05:12:28 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+


On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, ash wrote:

> and a great deal more. just wanted to say that i think you brought
> up a valid point and offer my agreement.
> i tend to get really excited when i come home and find i've got some
> thirty or forty messages to download. however, i find that 9/10ths
> of it invariably consists of idiotic flamage and self-important

Well, in this case, you might want to recall that Joseph Burns actually
started the whole with a smartassed flame of e's review of Lush ("Do you
want to write for NME when you grow up...?" or something like that). He
also made some very bad points, poorly worded, which I felt compelled to
respond to. Flamefests serve nothing but I do think there is room for
debate on these mailing lists; they weren't simply created to fawn over
the artists they represent. And when someone who hates an album pans it,
someone who likes the album is bound to leap to its defense.

I agree that posts should be relevant but let's remember how these stupid
things start in the first place. And this is not a flame, in case you
were wondering.

Martin


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:50:04 +0100
From: LUCIUS GOMEZ Ruben (egalugor@BS.EHU.ES)
Subject: unsuscribe


   Unsuscribe Ruben Lucius

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:09 EDT
From: Christopher A Michaels/Instnl/VGI
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


'H'y wrote:
>It goes back to that old question of what you listies are seeking from
>4ad nowadays. I guess most are harking back to about 87-88 when the CTs
>were on the label, plus the pixies were together, and UVS, and there
>was even the prospect of a This Mortal Coil release. Times are
>changing.

Martin wrote:
>This brings up an interesting point.
>Iam afraid, that to my ears, there is too little to distinguish many current
4AD bands (Breeders, Lush, Liquorice) from the rest of the pack.  This is not
to imply that these bands are "bad" (although they might be), just that they
are not as intriguing to me as some of the 80's 4AD roster.

I totally agree with Martin!  Go on and say it Martin, some of the newer
4AD bands are bad!  Something happened in the late 80's and I think
I know what it is.  Ian McCulloch once said E&TB were about being
'better', and I think this applies to a lot of the groups on 4AD in the 80's.
The bands I was attracted to were the ones who cared more about the
music then themselves/stardom.  The music came first, not the 'look' or the
'sound'.
The bands were honest, and you could tell every song meant a great deal
to them.  I felt this way about RHP when I first heard 'Down Colorful Hill'.
Same goes for Pale Saints.  But bands like that seen to be few and far
between on 4AD and other labels.
Lets face it, do you really think Lush ever had anything to say that they really
cared about? No.  All the bands that get praise on the list all have this same
thread.  I don't want some cheese band, I want honesty and sincerity
in the music.  For the most part, what the band sounds like is irrelevant.
Great bands are still out there, but for some of us they're a lot harder to
find now then they used to be.

Chris M.
///////////////////////////
christopher_a_michaels@vanguard.com
//////////////////////////
Times are a chang'n- ego-crap-pop is back!

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:30:23 +0000
From: "Roger Brewster (Wedge)" (bu6010@WLV.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: To Englands


On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Walter Reznik wrote:

> This is for you englands.
> Next saturday I'll fly to London. This is my first time, and I am at
> least "anxious".
> I'd want to go to clubs, or pubs where I could hear 4ad or Goth-
> related music. Someone suggested the Slimelight, or something, but he
> said it opens just saturdays.
> I'll arrive on sunday. Is there any place open on the week?
> Later I'll go to Egipt, Turkey and Israel, but it would be too much to
> ask if someone knows places there?
> Anyway, before my return to Argentina (ugh!), I'll be in London again,
> so I'll could go to Slimelight.
>
> Any help... thank you.

Hi Walter,

If you want to hear 4ad type stuff in London, the Limelight is not the
place to go (I assume there isn't a club called the "Slimelight").  The
Limelight is in Leicester Square, and is a dance oriented club as far as
I know (went there last year, to try it out, 'cause I was on the guestlist).
A place that looks a good bet for 4ad music is "Bedrock" or something
like that.  As for you thinking it is too much to ask for advice about
Egypt, Turkey, and Israel.....someone might be able to help you out,
including myself as it happens.  The place to go to in Jerusalem, Israel,
is called "The Underground", and has a great party-like atmosphere, with
loadsa people dancing on tables and stuff.  There was also a place right
nextdoor to "The Underground", which I didn't try out.  I'm sorry, but I
can't remember what it was called.  As for Egypt and Turkey, I have never
been to either country, so I couldn't tell you where the best places are.
Consult a decent guidebook such as the "Lonely Planet" series.

Hope this helped,
Roger

#######################################################
#   /\  /\ A X I M U M # Email: bu6010@ccub.wlv.ac.uk #
#  /  \/  \            # Snail: 16 Grange Park        #
# /        \  /\ I R   #        Albrighton            #
#            /--\      #        Wolverhampton         #
#           /    \     #        West Midlands         #
#                      #        WV7 3EN               #
# **THE NATURAL HIGH** #        (England)             #
#                      #        (Earth)               #
#  "Grab Some Today!"  # Voice: (+44 -0) 01902 373280 #
#######################################################


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 22:51:44 +0300
From: "Igor V. Vaganoff" (igo@DONWAVE.RND.SU)
Subject: The Birthday Party/Lydia Lunch (help me, please!)


Greetings from Russia to everybody,

If there is somebody on the "list" who has info about 4AD' early years,
concretely The Birthday Party?  I'm interested in their single of 1982
_Drunk on the Pope's Blood_ (live, with "The Agony is the Extasy" of
The Birthday Party and guest star Lydia Lunch)?
Is there anyone who has this record and can explain in detail what is it
and better I would be most grateful if somebody help me with the copy
of this release! The creation of Lydia Lunch is very interesting for me
as I write book about her, and it's a GREAT problem to find this record here
in Russia. Thank you before!
All the Best,

--Igor V.
ACHTUNG BABY!
radiostation "DonWave"
  Russia

---
********************************************************************************
Igor Vaganov                     "Oh, you can't help that, we're all mad here" -
ACHTUNG BABY!                                                    Lewis Caroll
igo@donwave.rnd.su


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:23:36 -0400
From: Scott Anderson (humgiant@USER1.CHANNEL1.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD website


i belive the sound is called REALAUDIO and the program to hear it is
downloadable from their site.  see the first page of the 4AD site or just
go to www.realaudio.com

scott anderson

humgiant@user1.channel1.com
sda201@sbra.com

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:27:36 EDT
From: Christopher A Michaels/Instnl/VGI
Subject: age against the machine


Paul,
Thanks for making me feel really old!
I'll have to admit you're somewhat right.  The
older you get, the more you hold on to the
same bands you listened to in the past.
But I still stand by my original comments.  I have
been in bands and have consequently met
new bands for a long time (ugh!), and the
truth is things have changed, and  many bands
are making music for all the wrong reasons.

Grandpa Chris

>Alternate explanation: you're getting older and lament the lost music
>of your youth. Perhaps some day you can direct a remake of "The Big
>Chill" with a 60s Motown = 80s 4AD map.

>Paul,
>who laments the inadequacy of masturbation.


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:00 PST
From: "Heileson, Thomas" (heilts1@MPE11.GHC.ORG)
Subject: teensy amt. of 4AD content, lotsa name stuff


>
>I thought silverchair was from australia?

I had no idea where they were from. I was just saying it was a typical,
unimaginative knock-off grungesque name, and noting that Seattle is _full_
of bands with names reflecting the abovementioned qualities. I guess this
had been on my mind since, the day before my post, I was looking through a
local "hipster" rag and talking to someone about how many cheaply
thrown-together band names there are. For example, Silverchair -- it sounds
like they just thought, hey that has a cool ring to it (kinda like previous
band Silverfish, only that's actually a word). There's this onslaught the
last couple years of bands with totally arbitrary-sounding names with common
keywords and a lack of imagination.

Ob4AD(sortOf), the "dreampop" thing started a trend of one-word/syllable
names (lush, ride) which spread like a virus into the pop/rock world (bush).
But some of those in the first wave had multiple meanings, which was
interesting, and also it was novelly mimimal then. Now it's just an easy way
to pretend your band's not pretentious, often keying in on ubiquitous words.
(A band called Salt just came to town -- please pass the Veruca!)

A few other over-used for group names words:

Twin(s) -- *_Never_ two people!
House / Haus
Psychic / Psychick

{Ah well, it's all better then the 70s-80s wave of defaulting to
geographical location... Chicago, Boston, Oregon, Asia, Berlin, Europe,
Japan... Laibach... ;)  }

Erm, that was an unsolicited awful rant, and no real 4AD content, huh?
Sorry.  Disclaimer: I don't intend to trigger any "who cares about names,
it's the music that counts" posts, cos I basically agree. (Artist
nomenclature is an essentially separate micro-art form, IMO.)

 ------------------------------

>
>Perhaps some knowledgable individual can put me right...........
>
>I need clarification who was in what concerning Kim and Kelly Deal, Tanya
>Donnely,
>Kristin Hersh etc. If somebody could start from Pixies / Throwing Muses and
>trace
>the main parties to present.
>i.e. Pixies - Francis, Kim Deal etc, up until the present bands i.e solid
>state, belly (example
>used - not intended to be correct).

(Didn't see an answer in my latest digest...)
As a veteran fan of the old stuff, I'll give you "just the
(ultra-streamlined) facts, ma'am"/sir. i.e. only the people you mentioned.
And from my old school perspective.

start his own band, or did I dream that?)

Throwing Muses: Kristin Hersh, Tanya Donnely, et. al., until Tanya left for
Belly. Then Kristin & other various (changing) members.

did, IMO, perhaps in part because it was serendipitously recorded without
intent of releasing) -- Kim Deal, Tanya Donnely, no Kelley Deal.

Second Breeders incarnation: Kelley Deal, no Tanya.

assume.

Surely not as comprehensive as you were hoping for; I'm sure someone can
fill in details.

 ------------------------------


Thanks to Dmitri Bender for a substance-inclusive descrip about Axiom Of
Choice. Whom (Dmitri) I hope is not _too_ annoyed by my name-rambling.  :)
 I'll check this group out.

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:57:23 -0600
From: "Jose A. Garcia Triana Camil" (pepegtc@HALCON.LAGUNA.UAL.MX)
Subject: Re: Everything's gone green


>Someone mentioned this song in a post today. I vaguely recall this title.
>Something I heard about 10 or so years ago. Anyone care to refresh my=
 memory?
>Who is it by?
>
>-nb-


It=B4s by one of the greatest (befor their sellout): NewOrder


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:34:52 -0500
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Objectivity, schmobjectivity


if we have such a problem with the word 'objectivity' then fine i will
drop it.... i think we understand the connotation i was using it in and
that is the point.... the same with typos... call it lazy if you desire
but if the connotation comes across then no i wont go back and correct
because its not worth anybody's time.
(guess what - 'wood thunk' was on purpose.)
besides typos are good for you in that derridian/barthes kinda way.
I'm not interested in draging out a public arguement, if you need to
reply please send it to me not to the list :)

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:52:39 -0800
From: Delphine Eunice Hwang (delfy@uclink2.berkeley.edu)
Subject: Re: Names Query -- HNIA


If you wanna hear the guy in the band say his story about Abe Lincoln on
tape, it's on that interview clip on the videos 13-Yr. Itch.  Or was it
Lonely is an Eyesore?  Or the HMV promos?  Well, one of those.  Probably
13-Yr. Itch.

delphine

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:47:37 +0000
From: Jason Wintz (moran@HAL-PC.ORG)
Subject: Re: LUSH


On Tue, Jan. 30 Martin wrote:

> Spooky is gorgeous. Pffft to all who disagree.

I agree.  Gorgeous is an excellent word for it.  But it's not nearly
as interesting as the first eps or _Split_.

I do like it, though.

moran@hal-pc.org


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:51:21 -0500
From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+


> invariably consists of idiotic flamage and self-important

> actually
> started the whole

> with a smartassed flame

> Do you
> want to write for NME when you grow up..."

> very bad points, poorly
> worded, which I felt compelled to
> respond to.

> with a smartassed flame

> And this is not a flame, in case you
> were wondering.


?!

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:40:05 -0500
From: Quinn Devine (devine@SUN1.ENGR.UTK.EDU)
Subject: thinning the herd


please take these off my hands, best offer:


My Bloody Valentine - This is Your Bloody Valentine - 1990 Dossier reissue.
Opal - Happy Nightmare Baby - SSTCD103
Opal - Early Recordings - RoughUS53
Throwing Muses - s/t

Tindersticks/Gallon Drunk - Clawfist singles club 21
Breeders - "Let's Breed" bootleg  (Don't Call Home/Fortunately Gone/Do You Love 
e Now?)
Bettie Serveert/Lotion - Inside Dave's Garage vol.1
Velocity Girl - "Live" bootleg (pretty sister/crazy town)
Madder Rose - Madder Rose/Lights Go Down - on Rockville
Madder Rose - I wanna sleep in your arms/Nicky Hoeky - SEED-2
My Bloody Valentine - Feed Me With Your Kiss/Emptiness Inside - CRE061

please respond to devine@sun1.engr.utk.edu


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:54:30 -0600
From: "Jose A. Garcia Triana Camil" (pepegtc@HALCON.LAGUNA.UAL.MX)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


> It is precisely
>this lack of "normalcy" that attracts me to bands, be they Laika or HNIA.  I
>am afraid, that to my ears, there is too little to distinguish many current
>4AD bands (Breeders, Lush, Liquorice) from the rest of the pack.  This is not
>to imply that these bands are "bad" (although they might be), just that they
>are not as intriguing to me as some of the 80's 4AD roster.
>
>Pardon the babble,
>
>Martin,
>mahoyt@uci.edu
>
>

Wise Words! (But i dont include Lush...)

Pepe

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:47:52 PST
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: Clubs in London / Israel (one twentieth - 4ad)


Walter,

When I was in  London in 1991there was a club called Slimelight. It is round the
corner from
the "Angle Of Islington" tube stop. It only opens about 11, and there were peopl

waiting to get inside at 1 am. There are two dance floors (downstairs rock / met
l).
Upstairs was very Goth / Industrial / 4AD. Examples: Creaming Jesus, Young Gods,
Sisters, Bolshoi, Gene Loves Jezebel, Fields, Bauhaus. But I definitely remember
dancing to Xymox's A Day 12", Sixteen Days Reprise (TMC), and The fatal impact (
CD).
If the DJ has such goodies, he probably has loads more 4AD stuff.

Israel has two good places next door to each other. The Underground  (Jerusalem)
plays a mix
of commercial shite and some goodies. I definitely remember leaping up and down 
o
The Cult, Joy Division and Siouxsie. The normal wanna-be stuff like Billy Idol a
d INXS was
also played, but in Israel, you have to make the most of it - you may have to li
ten to
Madonna and Whitney at the other 30 places. There is another place which can pla
 some
good stuff too - The Arizona Bar. The Ego Trip in Tel Aviv tries to play "altern
tive" stuff
but ends up with 95% (shite) techno and 5% "wierd" music like KLF. But drinks ar
 strong
(greens) and the people don't care how you act. Oh, yes - there was a shop in Na
anya
that had Blood only four days after it was released in the UK. You might ask the
 for
clues. Can't remember who they were, but Natanya has only 1 or 2 CD shops.

Egypt. Forget clubs for alt music (unless something drastic happened). My best m
sical
experience in Cairo was watching the Lightshow on the pyramids at a tea room smo
ing
some supposed "apple tobacco". Tell me another one. Course you could listen to a
walkman.....

Hope this helps
Chris, in South Africa  wishing he was back in these places.
I suppose it's never too late
See you on the plane
Goodbye everybody......

PS. don't drink the water in Egypt
PPS. Don't smoke the camel shit

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:20:51 +0100
From: Huite Rietveld (huite@XS4ALL.NL)
Subject: PIAS Benelux back on the World Wide Web


PIAS Benelux is back on the World Wide Web.
For our international contacts it's a pity, but the new site
is in the Dutch language.

For 4AD diehards we have good news: we've in our
lottery a genuine THE AMPS Mashall guitar-amplifier
(a promotional article from 4AD).

Look and find out:


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:27:31 +0100
From: Huite Rietveld (huite@XS4ALL.NL)
Subject: 4AD release schedule update


Don't shoot the messenger!


4AD release schedule:

feb 19, Scheer: (B)AD 6003 (CD)
feb 26, Lush (B)AD 6002 CD
mar 18, Lush: Lovelife (CAD 6004 (CD)
apr 1, Scheer: BAD 6005 (formats tbc)
apr 22, Scheer: CAD (C) 6006 (CD)
may 6, Throwing Muses: LP
may 13, His Name Is Alive: LP
may 20, Lisa germano: LP
may 27, Heidi Berry: LP
jun 23, Dead Can Dance: LP


Expect at least one Muses single before the LP.


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:12:04 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Petition to Destroy Lush


On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, 'H'y wrote:

> It goes back to that old question of what you listies are seeking from
> 4ad nowadays. I guess most are harking back to about 87-88 when the CTs
> were on the label, plus the pixies were together, and UVS, and there was
> even the prospect of a This Mortal Coil release. Times are changing.

This point is made fairly often, and is valid in the cases of some
people, but I've noticed that most people on here who miss the Good Old
Days of Victorialand and whatever also listen to a good deal of music
that is not too far off from what 4AD is putting out these days--but they
see 4AD's offerings as lesser examples for the genres involved.
Personally I don't mind what 4AD is up to and am happy that they have
been bold enough to kick so many awful bands off their label in a short
amount of time. I think the Lush singles are the worst 4AD releases since
Ocean Beach if not Toward the Within. For that matter, notice that most
of the protest about that single is about content rather than style.
Aside from the poor performances mixing the main problem is the
songwriting has completely lost its character. However, the actual song
Single Girl is indeed catchy and kind of fun, and might not be so
annoying in the context of good album--but given four (or perhaps five)
terrible new songs on the singles, I am not hopeful about the album.

Of which I think I have a copy in the pipe. If so, expect some more of my
unfair lambasting of this great band later this afternoon. :p

e

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:54:19 -0400
From: "Rick W." (rickaroo@TIAC.NET)
Subject: new cindytalk/Tour


Wappinschaw will be on sale for substantially less on the upcoming tour!

February 17 -   Washington DC           Black Cat
February 21-    Cleveland                    SPeak In Tongues
February 22-    Detroit                         Alvin's
February 25     Minneapolis               The Quest
February 27     Portland, OR               Satyricon
February 28     Seattle                         Off Ramp
March 1-            San Francisco           Bottom of the HIll
March 3-            San Jose                    Cactus Club
March 8-           Corona                       Showcase
March 9 -           LA                                  (I forget)
March 12-          Tempe                        Stinkweeds
March 13-17       Austin                        SXSW
March 18-         New Orleans               TBA
March 21          Orlando                       Sapphire
March 24          Charlotte                     Tremont Music Hall
March 30 or so Cambridge, ma         Middle East
April 6                New York City            Westbeth Theater

Other dates to come!

Rick

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:12:46 -0800
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: charnel


Anyone got the email address for charnel music?  Can you... give it to me?

Boy, I've asked this question 3 times now (not just on this list) and
nobody's even done so much as said 'no'.

Mike

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:03 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: record Shops/No 4AD/a request/


I have a friend who'll be going to London soon. I recall someone here
posted a list of shops in London. Does anyone still have it or willing to
send me one? I would greatly appreciate it! You may mail it to me
personally. Thank you.

Elf

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:45:20 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: To Englands


> > Anyway, before my return to Argentina (ugh!), I'll be in London again,
> > so I'll could go to Slimelight.

> place to go (I assume there isn't a club called the "Slimelight").  The

Actual if I'm rembering correctly I heard of a club called slimelight too
that was being advertised at a goth/industrial night (called pure
industrial I believe) I would tell you where this was only I can't quite
remeber (I do seem to vaugley recall having lots of fun though) If you
check the Black Rose in kensington market they sometimes have fliers for
what ever's happening, good luck and have fun and such like

mike

who just gave up on UNIX mail for the day and went back to nice old pine

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:29:08 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Objectivity, schmobjectivity


Totally zero 4AD content, but much metacontent regarding the discourse on
this list.

Jos. Burns scrawls:
>if we have such a problem with the word 'objectivity' then fine i will
>drop it.... i think we understand the connotation i was using it in and
>that is the point....

No, I don't think we do. You're asking for "objective" reviews without
offering any examples thereof. We've established that the word alone does
not signify what you think or though it does. Moreover, you have yet to
be voted List Czar and the idea of you (or Derf, or anyone) telling
people how not to write a review is pointless; about the only thing
anyone can agree on is that "They suck" does not connote a good review.

 Flaming reviews is bullshit and I do not for the life of me
understand why people keep doing this to e of all people. His reviews are
detailed, fact-filled, passionate, amusing, and describe exactly what he
likes or does not like about the music. What the hell more do you folks
want? If you have trouble with the style -- "eww, this is toooo lonnnng"
or "eww, this is toooo subJECtive" -- this is nothing but abject whining.
If you're not prepared to write your own better reviews, shut the fuck
up. I've been a newspaper editor in the past and I have from that
experience built up a vast store of contempt for people who are expert
literary critics when it comes to expressing what they dislike about
what's published, but strangely mute when it comes to submitting their
own, better content. This goes double on the Net where there are zero
barriers to entry. You're already on this list. You have ~400 people
listening to you. If you know exactly how things should be written, go
ahead and start writing that way. But reread and spell check it first.


> the same with typos... call it lazy if you desire
>but if the connotation comes across then no i wont go back and correct
>because its not worth anybody's time.

You're a good hand with the postmodern jargon & namedropping, Jos., so
you must appreciate the fact that in e-mail you are nothing but a text.
If your text presents bad grammar, confusing and ambiguous statements,
and awful spelling, then this evidence connotes to the reader a confused,
poorly-organized and sloppy mind behind it. I'm not saying this is true
-- but that's what people think since that's all we can see. Moreover,
reading sloppy prose is no fun and I at least tend to whack the delete
key pretty quickly when presented with same.


__________
Jens Alfke  __________________
            jens@mooseyard.com
                          ________________________________________
                          He wants a shoehorn, the kind with teeth
                         'Cause he knows there's no such thing.

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:31:51 -0500
From: bruce levenstein (bruceL@INTERRAMP.COM)
Subject: FS: autechre, disjecta...


i have the following CD's for sale for $10 each postage paid:

autechre - incunabula
disjecta - v1.0 looking for snags
air (namlook) I+II (u.s. double reissue)

thanks,
-bruce

 ---------------------------------------------
 |       C is for CLARA who wasted away      |
 ---------------------------------------------
 | bruce levenstein     brucel@interramp.com |
 ---------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:54:44 -0800
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re: HNIA Promo - Man on the Silver Mountain


> I have a promo CD from Rykodisc that has Man on the Silver Mountain and 8
> other HNIA songs on it.  I found it in a used store about two years ago.

There are plenty of them around here.  It's pretty unusual to walk into a
used CD store and not find it...

Mike

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:23:46 -0500
From: lorelei tremolor (lfl3858@IS2.NYU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Everything's gone green


and, in keeping with the 4ad theme, "everything's gone green" is also one
of miki from lush's all-time favorite songs...she would listen to it
after school everyday...

**lorraine

>
> One of my all-time favorite songs!
>

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:18:29 -0500
From: "Vt Barry@Aol.Com" (VTBarry@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Heidi Berry - bargain imports


As a matter of fact, the local college bookstore here in the backwoods
(Dartmouth) has several import versions of 4AD albums on sale ($3.99 -
$7.99).  Heidi Berry "Love", His Name Is Alive "Home Is In Your Head", The
Wolfgang Press "Queer" (UK), and the "Mama Told Me Not to Come" CD-single
(also TWP).  They also had a cassette import of This Mortal Coil's "It'll End
In Tears".  If anyone is interested in these titles, I'd be happy to search
for them for you.  E-mail me privately:

vt barry@aol.com

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:05:57 -0500
From: NWND@GROVE.IUP.EDU
Subject: seeking blur and slowdive list adresses


4AD-ers

       hey im a recently unsubscribed lister so any responses should be
directed to my private adress and not sent to the list.  im looking for the
mojave/slowdive list adress...the blur list adress....the british-pop adress
and the site for 4AD digest....thanks in advance...

          bryan
          nwnd@grove.iup.edu

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:01:28 -0600
From: Stratton Davis (stratt@E-TEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Other lists..?


At 03:11 AM 1/31/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Forgive my extreme and off-topic ignorance, but could someone please hook
>me up with subscribtion info for the Cocteau Twins list that I saw
>mentioned some time ago?
>
>Also, is there an ambient list or an Orb list?
>
>Thanks...
>
>skye
>

To subscribe to the Cocteau Twins mailing list, send the following message to:

majordomo@indiana.edu

the message: subscribe jwgrote_cocteau


Stratton


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:10 -0600
From: Space Ghost Poncherello (jrcampbe@MAIL.PITTSTATE.EDU)
Subject: Re: The whole pixies / breeders / belly strain...


> Except that you forgot Throwing Muses bassist extraordinaire Leslie
> Langston (who later surfaced briefly on The Wolfgang Press' "Queer"
> album), it all sounds correct.

Oooops big ugly mistake there, but then again nobody's perfect.

> >(316) 235-1602 --> Jim's Moose Outlet Hotline

Well, that all started at Annie's Santa Fe Restaurant...


James Campbell
jrcampbe@mail.pittstate.edu
1902 S. Broadway #12, Pittsburg, KS 66762
(316) 235-1602 --> Jim's Moose Outlet Hotline
(316) 235-4801 --> SAC Office (Office Hours MWF 3-4pm)

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:36:12 EST
From: marianne hodge (HODGEM@stjohns.edu)
Subject: Re: To Englands


hi walter!

on the www i picked up a web page dedicated to gothic clubs, and it
listed several in England...i cannot recall if it also covered your
other destinations, but perhaps you would like to check it out....


many if not most of these clubs also featured industrial and new
wave music.

i envy you! enjoy...............

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
marianne
hodgem@sjumusic.stjohns.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:42 -0800
From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Shotgun samples


I thought I'd take a shot at listing the samples in Shotgun
by Colourbox, so here goes:

"Kristen and Jeffrey will sing the Kookaburra song. What
is the name of the song [garbled few words]"
"[????]" probably not from the same source. May not even be a sample.
"And what's it all about anyway?"
"Well, we was just riding home. We looked back and just saw a cloud
of dust behind us"
"And what was the cloud of dust caused by?"

"COLOURBOX" probably just someone in the studio saying this

"What do you think of it?"

[a backwards male voice]

[a few words nearly impossible to make out]

"Boys, boys, boys...."

"I never really considered myself as a musician"

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:04:12 +0100
From: Jaax Lawson (jaax@ARIA3.LYON.ARCHI.FR)
Subject: Re: LUSH


>Why do I feel like I'm the only person in the whole entire world that loves
>SPOOKY as much as anything else Lush has done (including SPLIT)???
 that's because you need those songs to live ...

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:14:57 -0500
From: "Rodney......who should really be working now......."
Subject: Re: American / UK Wolfgang differences


In an OLD message dated 96-01-20 02:34:47 EST, you write:

>  No, it is different.  "Sucker M.F." is harder.  As far as I
>know the version on _Volume_ is exclusive to that compilation.

btw it's also on ...and dog bones too.


Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:46:45 -0600
From: a bear of very little brain (hk@NEOSOFT.COM)
Subject: Re: ESP Summer


>Does anyone have any info on this?  How many were pressed, how hard it is
>to find, what it's worth?  This was posted on the list before, but I
>forgot.(A local store has one for $8, are they nutty or are these things
>being re-released?)

1000 copies were pressed, and once those 1000 are gone, they're gone baby
gone.  No future re-releases/re-pressings/sneaky tacking on at the end of
the ESP CD or such.  Stateside domestic postpaid price on these things is
$6.50, so judge accordingly with regards to what your local shop is
charging.  In as far as just how difficult this record is to locate, well,
that's a good question.  There are multiple distributors and mail order
houses that carry this record, so I'm assuming they'll eventually trickle
their way down indiedom.  As someone had mentioned earlier, Vinyl Ink in
Maryland has the 10", and so does Parasol.

Hope this helps,


hk
[insert hidden agenda here]
--
hk kahng | hk@neosoft.com & farrago@delphi.com
         | http://www.neosoft.com/~hk/home.htm

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:00:23 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Frequently Asked Questions


There have been a couple of requests lately for addresses of mailing
lists, web sites, details on compilations, etc. which are all covered in
the FAQ. So surf over to:


and grok the collected wisdom of the 4AD list membership.

__________
Jens Alfke  __________________
            jens@mooseyard.com
                          ________________________________________
                          He wants a shoehorn, the kind with teeth
                         'Cause he knows there's no such thing.

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:50:39 PST
From: Christopher Winfield (winfield@MATH.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD-L Digest - 29 Jan 1996 to 30 Jan 1996


I would like to unsubcribe to the 4AD news for now.

-Chris Winfield
winfield@math.ucla.edu

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:10:09 -0700
From: Chadwick Dorton (cdorton@SLCPL.SLCPL.LIB.UT.US)
Subject: Re: charnel


On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Heffalump wrote:

> Anyone got the email address for charnel music?  Can you... give it to me?
>
> Boy, I've asked this question 3 times now (not just on this list) and
> nobody's even done so much as said 'no'.
>
> Mike

No!

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:20:17 -0600
From: zelzah (zelzah@SAT.NET)
Subject: Re: Lush's Shining Road+


At 05:12 AM 1/31/96 -0600, you wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, ash wrote:
>
>> and a great deal more. just wanted to say that i think you brought
>> up a valid point and offer my agreement.
>> i tend to get really excited when i come home and find i've got some
>> thirty or forty messages to download. however, i find that 9/10ths
>> of it invariably consists of idiotic flamage and self-important
>
>Well, in this case, you might want to recall that Joseph Burns actually
>started the whole with a smartassed flame of e's review of Lush ("Do you
>want to write for NME when you grow up...?" or something like that). He
>also made some very bad points, poorly worded, which I felt compelled to
>respond to. Flamefests serve nothing but I do think there is room for
>debate on these mailing lists; they weren't simply created to fawn over
>the artists they represent. And when someone who hates an album pans it,
>someone who likes the album is bound to leap to its defense.
>
>I agree that posts should be relevant but let's remember how these stupid
>things start in the first place. And this is not a flame, in case you
>were wondering.


But then again, maybe if some people would refrain from saying anything in
the first place, as opposed to bringing them down, this wouldn't happpen.  I
think that lush is a great topic to write about and it should stay that way
instead of flaming people like what written is above (...very bad points...,
...how stupid things start...; etc.<-----you have contradicted yourself
because you have just said that what you have written is not a flame).  Now
I can honestly say that this isn't a flame because I am not saying anything
like how stupid his posts are, or whatever.   Next time, please take the
time to re-read your posts and write something that is worthwhile.  Nothing
personal, you know, because I've noticed that many people here do it as well
-so it pretty much goes out to all.
Just think about it, guys.

-zelzah.

-z.


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 2-31-1996