4ad-l Mail for 12-15-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: twinlights lyrics please...
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:50:37 -0800
From: Jack B Huynh (jhuy@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: First mail
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:41:00 -0300
From: Walter Reznik (wreznik@COLSCH.EDU.AR)
Subject: Re: Scheer/Echobelly, general musical stuff
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:25:31 -0500
From: susan@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject: Re: hisnameisaliveLIVE
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:08:19 -0600
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!! :(
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:30:20 EST
From: Alan Daniel (alan@MSAI.MEA.COM)
Subject: Re: Moog Orchestra
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:25:26 -0500
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: ARGH!!
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:56:38 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD WWW pages at IUMA
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:55:13 CST
From: Steven W Hill (shill@HARPER.CC.IL.US)
Subject: Re: twinlights lyrics please...
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:41:41 -0700
From: ".mark." (vonminde@RINTINTIN.COLORADO.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:26:14 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!(+ musical content)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:35:32 -0700
From: ".mark." (vonminde@RINTINTIN.COLORADO.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!(+ musical content)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:20:43 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Ooh, a grudge match!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:09:20 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:09:16 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: :(
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:57:27 -0800
From: snowangel (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Single Girl
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:26:59 +0000
From: "'H'y" (hmc4@mailer.york.ac.uk)
Subject: movietone review
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:58:19 -0600
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Scheer, Cocteaus, Echobelly, Web Site... phew!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:43:27 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Enough of the E-mail...
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:23:44 PST
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: Re: hisnameisaliveLIVE
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:49:06 -0600
From: Sung Shim (foss@WWA.COM)
Subject: 4ad web site and slow access
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:57:43 -0600
From: Sung Shim (foss@WWA.COM)
Subject: fsa/Britpop, shitpop, middle-class twitpop/e/Brian
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:20:58 -0500
From: varoom! (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: on enya and at my wit's end
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:57:46 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: 4ad web site and slow access
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:49:07 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: the bedwetting before christmas
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:39:21 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: 4ad web site and slow access
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:04:55 EDT
From: Steve Kafasis (Steve_Kafasis@WALNUT.PRS.K12.NJ.US)
Subject: Re: First mail
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:48:59 -0500
From: "John B. Jones" (jojones@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU)
Subject: This Rimmee Riva and Main
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:54:53 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: Web site design
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:22:29 -0700
From: sean devine (kober@GAS.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:34:58 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Christmas songs by 4ad artists/flamejobs
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:17:29 -0800
From: "Scott, Mari & Brian" (sten@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: famous nazis on 4ad-l
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:17:05 -0500
From: "[spiral]" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Web site design
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:42:24 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:12:47 -0500
From: "[spiral]" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: "Chains Changed" track listing
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:10:05 EST
From: Tom Homulka (Thomas_Homulka.WORLDGROUP@NOTES.COMPUSERVE.COM)
Subject: Re: :(
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:50:26 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: on enya and at my wit's end
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:50:20 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: new Enya?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:50:15 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: this whole stupid flame thing
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:43:35 -0600
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: twinlights lyrics please...
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:23:43 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Web site design
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:34:54 +0000
From: Jack Huynh (jhuy@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: "Chains Changed"
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:33:06 -0500
From: Roy Burns (RBNRy@AOL.COM)
Subject: "wrong" opinions
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:29:31 -0800
From: phil (PLOCKE@US.ORACLE.COM)
Subject: e (was Re: new Enya?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:44:23 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: e-bashing [was Re: new Enya?]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:36:07 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Dart...
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:16:13 -0800
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: e flamage again [Re: Re: on enya and at my wit's end]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:46:51 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: e-bashing [was Re: new Enya?]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:20:52 EDT
From: Steve Kafasis (Steve_Kafasis@WALNUT.PRS.K12.NJ.US)
Subject: Info on Empire Records NYC wanted!!!
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:14:36 +0800
From: Tony Ting (s8700057@SINGNET.COM.SG)
Subject: disclaimers
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:06:02 CST
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:50:37 -0800
From: Jack B Huynh (jhuy@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: twinlights lyrics please...


> as transcribed from the short film/video thing.  anyway, i managed to
> lose these, and now i've made the mistake of offering them to the
> cocteaux list, and i can't deliver.  so....before i go ftping into the

Maybe I've been out of it so badly that I wasn't aware of another cocteau
list? please clarify for me please.


Anyone want to lend me a video recorder? i am visiting the twins for xmas
and gonna be attending the live radio sessions in france. anyway, back to
developing web pages...


jack


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:41:00 -0300
From: Walter Reznik (wreznik@COLSCH.EDU.AR)
Subject: First mail


Hello
   I just subscribed to this list, and I'm pretty happy I have found
it's address (someone from the dominion list sent it to me), because I
had an old one.
   Now, I just received my first messages, and I'm a little afraid.
Almost all of them were agressive. Since I am from Argentina and I don't
have a good english, please have patience, I wouldn't like to be
discrimined just for being new, or anything else but my oppinions or
ideas.
   My favourite 4ad groups are not too original: Dead can Dance,
Wolfgang Press, This Mortal Coil, and others. I love Cocteau Twins, even
if it left 4ad. I heard that when that happened, 4ad published a kind of
add, arguing that Elizabeth Fraser's personal voice was a kind of
"accident" due to a phonetical problem. I didn't believe it, the
information arrives distorted to Argentina, but everything is posible.
Could someone answer? I'm sorry if I am talking on a subject already
discussed, but remember, I'm new. (have you talked about Twinlights?)

   Don't fade away
   WMReplicant



---
* Escuela Scholem Aleijem - InterNet Node: colsch.edu.ar
* Scholem BBS - (0541) 855-5902 - 14.4 Kbps - Las 24 horas


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:25:31 -0500
From: susan@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject: Re: Scheer/Echobelly, general musical stuff

              Mari & Brian" at Dec 14, 95 04:47:06 pm

>   3.) I think I'm going to get the Cibo Matto cd because the guy who
>       runs their page on the web said they were nice and everyone says
>       they are diffrent. I'm a moron, huh.

what's the address?

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:08:19 -0600
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: hisnameisaliveLIVE


>Dropped in today at Time Stereo (actually a record store that also serves as
>Time Stereo) and spoke to Kenny Greenbaum, co-member of Princess-Dragom Mom
>with Warren and Davin.  We had got to talking about the past few PDM shows
>(all of which I missed mainly because I didn't find out about them until 2

this sounds really fab!  anyone from wisconsin, minnesota, or iowa going?

later,

BiZ

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:30:20 EST
From: Alan Daniel (alan@MSAI.MEA.COM)
Subject: Re: ARGH!! :(


not that i support either side of this issue, but i beleive einexile was
probably half-heartily joking.
do you guys even realise that your responses support his statement?

----- Begin Included Message -----


Thank you! Really eix-geek, whatever, you got your 10 seconds of
fame...back to the music.

On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Russell Martin wrote:

> >On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, L-Soft list server at AMERICAN.EDU (1.8b) wrote:
> >
> >> Your message dated  Thu, 14 Dec 1995 04:42:26 -0800  (PST) with subject "Re

> >> (idm) chapterhouse, idm related? (fwd)" has been successfully distributed t

> >> the 4AD-L list (398 recipients).
> >                  ^^^
> >Anyone notice that one person leaves for every message I post to this
> >list? Maybe I should do a marathon sometime and see if I can't empty out
> >the whole lot of you!
> >
> >
> > einexile, charter member of the Undead Prosaics Army
>
> You obviously give yourself TOO much credit. If you think that the mindless
> blather that fills the ill formed tripe you pass for arguments is causing
> people to unsubscribe, think again. Avoid placing your head near sharp
> objects to avoid the danger of popping that over bloated under-worked
> apparatus. =^)
>
>


----- End Included Message -----

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:25:26 -0500
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Moog Orchestra


This was posted awhile back:

>
>What is "TRG" [TRG-1 CD] anyway?  I've never heard of it...
>
>Thanks,
>Mike

The "T.R.G" stands for Tantalus Recording Group, the label on which the
Mystic Moog Orchestra was released.

If you're still having trouble finding this, trying contacting Davin or Kenny
(both of PDM) at The Record Collector 810.473.8350 or e-mail at:
RecColl.@ix.netcom.com
I don't know about that "." at the end of RecColl, but that's what they have
on their business card.  Tell them "Blue" sent you  ;)

-Blue
blubelknol@aol.com

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:56:38 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!


> Again, this is your opinion and I respect it although, several of us
> "newbies" have flamed "eixnile" many times. What does this say?! I have
> gotten several personal e-mails from people secretly telling me how they
> despise the list Nazi's such as, yes, you, yourself. As I told someone
> else, THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!
>
So if i'm not mistaken your Idea would be to replace the list nazi's with
PC nazi's (Nazi is such a nasty word, maybe on of you pc types could come
up with a less offensive term, like thought controll officer, or
something like that) and take over the list bending it to your own
twisted ends, I have a sneaking suspicion you're a major lable spy sent
to corrupt us freethinking, occasionally intertaining, and everyonce and a
while funny, independant people who refuse to give in to your vicious
facist plots. Fortunatly you've made you move to soon, we are still to
stong for you you vicious little PC nazi spy!

And now for something completely diffrent

I'm really looking forward to seeing Kim and the Amps on Connan tonight
Oh Joy, kim!

Minneapolis listies, if you have not already found it, i highly recomend
checking out a cool little record store in Northtown mall, goes by the
name of 20/20, down buy bustbuy, they've got some pretty nifty stuff.

Gleefully drivin insane by finals week
mike defender of list nazi's everywhere and e especially (until he pisses
me off, but that's a whole difrent post)


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:55:13 CST
From: Steven W Hill (shill@HARPER.CC.IL.US)
Subject: Re: 4AD WWW pages at IUMA

              "chief@LYSATOR.LIU.SE" at Dec 15, 95 4:19 am

> Sorry to be bothering all you nice people on the list, but could
> someone please tell 4AD that we aren't all directly connected to
> the Internet. Some of us still use dial-up access, unless someone
> abolished it when I wasn't looking.
>
> Their WWW "pages" on IUMA are _stunning_, I'll admit, but they're
> not really pages at all. They are great large big kilobytemassive
> GIF pictures. The text on them are too!

Personally, I understand your point, but I think their top priority is to
impress visually...and even you admit without hesitation that they do.
Imparting information is probably a lower priority, but they still do it
(albeit inconveniently). It's tough to find a compromise or even decide
if you *want* to compromise since there is always someone with a slower
computer and dial-up link than you. Maybe someday they'll do text-only
pages, but there's zero visual appeal in that.
-shill

--
[][]  [][] Steve Hill, Network Communications Specialist, 708-925-6273
[]  []  [] Harper College, 1200 W Algonquin Rd, Palatine IL 60067-7398
           ----shill@harper.cc.il.us----http://www.harper.cc.il.us----
[]  []  []                  "Lousy Smarch weather!"
[][]  [][]       personal:(http://www.idis.com/shill/index.htm)

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:41:41 -0700
From: ".mark." (vonminde@RINTINTIN.COLORADO.EDU)
Subject: Re: twinlights lyrics please...


On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Jack B Huynh wrote:

> Maybe I've been out of it so badly that I wasn't aware of another cocteau
> list? please clarify for me please.

...you know, i knew you didn't know about this!  i just had a feeling...

anyway, a list was started, because (this is the official reason) the
relative lace of cocteaux content on the net.  the real reason:  because
many cocteaux fans couldn't stand the traffic on 4ad-l...a shame, methinks.
anyway, after a quiet period and an almost-a-flame-war-but-still-good
discussion (in which i participated just a li'l too much) the list has
slipped into top tens and such....percisely why it shouldn't never have
started in the first place, IMHO.  oh well...i'm still on it.

the posting address is jwgrote_cocteau@indiana.edu (i think...)

i'm not sure about the majordomo/listserv thingy...

        byenow...mark

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:26:14 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!


>>
>So if i'm not mistaken your Idea would be to replace the list nazi's with
>PC nazi's

Ummm, no, not at all, unless you mean "pathetically cool"



(Nazi is such a nasty word, maybe on of you pc types could come
>up with a less offensive term,

pc referance (?)

> I have a sneaking suspicion you're a major lable spy sent
>to corrupt us freethinking, occasionally intertaining, and everyonce and a
>while funny, independant people who refuse to give in to your vicious
>facist plots.

Don't I wish...freethinking, now THERE's a concept!


Fortunatly you've made you move to soon, we are still to
>stong for you you vicious little PC nazi spy!

Yeah, what time is it for you? you're delerious or showing off your newly
learned Poli. Sci. vocab. Thanks! Enlightened!NOT!


>And now for something completely diffrent
>
>I'm really looking forward to seeing Kim and the Amps on Connan tonight
>Oh Joy, kim!
>
>Minneapolis listies, if you have not already found it, i highly recomend
>checking out a cool little record store in Northtown mall, goes by the
>name of 20/20, down buy bustbuy, they've got some pretty nifty stuff.
>

Wow, my grandparents and bro. are with you there in Minneapolis now! Where
would that mall be? haven't been there in awhile.

>Gleefully drivin insane by finals week
>mike defender of list nazi's everywhere and e especially (until he pisses
>me off, but that's a whole difrent post)

El


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"She's got my mental health in a vice grip"
                                               --Tom Waits
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:35:32 -0700
From: ".mark." (vonminde@RINTINTIN.COLORADO.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!(+ musical content)


On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Elvia M. Tarango wrote [about BiZ]:

> Again, this is your opinion and I respect it although, several of us
> "newbies" have flamed "eixnile" many times. What does this say?! I have
> gotten several personal e-mails from people secretly telling me how they
> despise the list Nazi's such as, yes, you, yourself. As I told someone
> else, THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!

....i don't want to be mean to elvia or anyone, but i think some
correction is in order.

it's funny that you would call BiZ (aka eric, aka king of the monsters) a
list nazi or an oldtimer.  the fact is, eric joined this list less than a
year ago if i remember right.  and, if i'm still remembering right, i
believe he actually got a pretty intense flame from einexile himself
sometime in those first few months.  but he continued to stay on this
list and made himself one of the most pleasant, lighthearted,
intelligent, and generally fun members of our li'l community....just a
comment.

anyway, i understand the frustration of joining this list that is filled
with intensely opinionated people (some of whom have been on this list
upwards of 4 years)....it *is* a little like trying to break into a
clique-y club crowd or something.  but...the fact remains that any
community takes some getting used to.  you have to be a part of it awhile
to be able to catch someone's humor (esp. someone like einexile) or any
other intentions.  so i say, welcome new comers!  please be
patient...this list is amazing (and so are the people).  my suggestion is
never to jump to conclusions (it's only text on the screen, after all)
and to put some thought into your posts (no matter how long you've been
on this list)

finally, as promised, some musical content....

any news on RHP finding a new label???  i'm very curious to see what
will happen to mark & co.

okay, that was pretty empty music content, but i'm in hurry...:)

        .luvtoall.....mark.


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:20:43 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!(+ musical content)


it *is* a little like trying to break into a
>clique-y club crowd or something.  but...the fact remains that any
>community takes some getting used to.  you have to be a part of it awhile
>to be able to catch someone's humor (esp. someone like einexile) or any
>other intentions.

Funny thing, I *did* catch the humor and einexile even e-mailed me about
it. And, you're right, people shouldn't jump to conclusions...that's the
point.



 so i say, welcome new comers!  please be
>patient...this list is amazing (and so are the people).  my suggestion is
>never to jump to conclusions (it's only text on the screen, after all)
>and to put some thought into your posts (no matter how long you've been
>on this list)
>
>finally, as promised, some musical content....
>
>any news on RHP finding a new label???  i'm very curious to see what
>will happen to mark & co.

Yup, I got news that they are ready to sign. I had the pleasure of meeting
them. yeah, I'm gloating! Rick could probably say more, I'm afraid to
(well, not really afraid).

>
>okay, that was pretty empty music content, but i'm in hurry...:)

Music empty??? Hey, pretty FULL! Hopefully they'll hurry up and sign and
release that "condemned" album!!


>        .luvtoall.....mark.

El


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"She's got my mental health in a vice grip"
                                               --Tom Waits
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:09:20 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: Ooh, a grudge match!


weeny-exile wrote:
>> =^)
>
>You bought that smiley book, didn't you?
>
>
>
> einexile, king of pop

I MADE that damn "emoticon" my own self thank you!

 ======================= ============================ =======================
|                       |                            | ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~    |
|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |  xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx   |
|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |   xx  xx  ~~  xx  xx  |
|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |    xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx |
|                       |                            |     ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~|
 ======================= ============================ =======================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:09:16 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!


>>Thank you! Really eix-geek, whatever, you got your 10 seconds of
>>fame...back to the music.
>
>when i first joined this list, i wondered why everyone got annoyed with the
>newer members.  now i know.  it's funny to see people who've joined in the
>last couple months "flaming" one of the "regulars" who along with having
>his good share of fun, makes this list worth subbing to.  i think e's
>contributed more stuff to the list worth reading than you have, but then
>again, i'm not a big fan of rhp.

Is this E defending himself under a pseudonym or what?!?

 ======================= ============================ =======================
|                       |                            | ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~    |
|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |  xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx   |
|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |   xx  xx  ~~  xx  xx  |
|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |    xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx |
|                       |                            |     ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~|
 ======================= ============================ =======================


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:57:27 -0800
From: snowangel (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: :(


  lay off e!!! he's my friend!!!



  k

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:26:59 +0000
From: "'H'y" (hmc4@mailer.york.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: Single Girl


I found a promo 12" of Single Girl by Lush yesterday. I was quite
surprised to find it considering the backwater I live in.
Just to add fuel to the Lush=Punk debate. I would call the single 2 and a
half minutes of trashy pop. Trashy as in throw away not as in rubbish.
To me its probably more in line with the earlier Lush sound as opposed to
the great stuff on Split. It could have been due to the pressing or my
record deck but I  think the production suffers a little aswell. But
underneath all this there is a catchy little tune which will surely get
airplay.

The lyrics are well - trite

ie "Single Girl,
    I don't want to be  a single girl.
    Single Girl
     I don't want to be a single girl.

    I don't want to go to sleep alone tonight
    I don't want have to turn out the light "

Or something like that.

The promo was- one sided. Th b-side was completely unpressed. There's no
other cat no. -. The run out groove had " MNO  Lush"
 etched on it.  The packaging was a red cardboard sleeve with the centre
holes
taken out. There were some pinkish spirals on it and with a slightly
different Lush logo in the top corner and enlarged over the whole thing.

The single is out next Jan with 4 tracks. then another in february and an
album in march. They will be doing an extensive UK tour early this year
to be followed by the other important parts of the world.



'H'
Cambridge

Stockholm Environment Institute at York
University of York, York, Uk.

Me - http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/sei/sei/h.html
Snapper - http://asegweb.ohm.york.ac.uk/tsb/music.html
Work - http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/sei/sei/welcome.html

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:58:19 -0600
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: movietone review


they always say that everyone gets to post one really long review a year
(actually, nobody says that but me ;)  but here it is anyway. . .

ok, everyone stop reading, turn off your machines, get your coat on, and go
out and pick up the movietone cd.  i don't care if it's an expensive
import.  i paid $22 for mine.  just go get it.
                                       .
                                       .
                                       .
                                       .
                                       .
ok, now that you have the cd in your little paws, i'll start the review.
the very first thing i noticed after i ripped open the package containing
this cd was the lame insert.  the booklet that comes with this cd is
completely blank inside, so don't waste your time looking (though rumor has
it that the vinyl version comes with some nifty postcards).  there's good
music to be heard.  put the cd in, quick!  while you're doing this, notice
that the cd says "buy vinyl" on the top.  one of these days, someone's
going to open up a new fsa/movietone cd jewel case, and it's going to
explode in a ball of flames.  do these guys hate cds or what?

the cd clocks in with 12 tracks at 41:28.  one of them is the critically
acclaimed (well, by me anyway) "mono valley."

here's a track listing (just in case the store was closed.):

Chance is Her Opera
Heatwave Pavement
Green Ray (not to be confused with a certain punkTM band or the city in
eastern wisconsin, home of a certain football team with very ugly
uniforms.)

Orange Zero
Late July
Darkness-Blue Glow
Mono Valley
Coastal Lagoon
Alkaline Eye
3AM Walking Smoking Talking
Three Fires

there's a track 12, though it's not listed

notes on the entire album:

if you recall my review of "mono valley," you'll remember that both tracks
on the 7" used a (poorly played) clarinet.  this isn't the case with all
the songs on the album, though most of them have some "non-traditional"
instrumentation or another.  one thing that jumped out at me after just one
listen (i've listened to it about four times now), is the extensive use of
spoken word on this cd.  it's odd, because at times, rachel's voice can be
speaking, singing (like her emotional vox on fsa's still point.), or using
that cracking, raspy high voice, as i described in my mono valley review.
ok, i'll stop using the old material as a crutch and move on to the new
stuff.

whoa!  i just inadvertantly found out how to post text from the clipboard
to my e-mail message, but you don't want to read about drug testing, so
i'll move on.

JUDGEMENT IS NOT!!! MUHUHUHAHAHA!!!)

"chance is her opera" (4:53)

starts out w/ a rythym guitar, not like that jangly unrest-esque sound, but
somehow better.  really lightly played drums.  there's also a more
"electric-sounding" guitar at about the same volume as the rhythm section.
the  spoken vox are mixed the loudest here, a marked change from fsa.
"music is the true vice.  music is strings around the neck."  bass sort of
rises and falls throughout the song.  overall effect is pretty rhythmic.
sort of reminds me of a bizarre snake charmer weaving his way back and
forth.

"heatwave pavement" (3:46)

starts with speaking, a rhythm guitar similar to last song joins in almost
immediately.  a really soft reverbing guitar chimes in throughout the song.
the same sort of soft drums.  the reverbing guitar dances around a bit.
the vocals are buried a bit more on this one, and spoken with more emotion,
as though the singer is inside a confessional booth, or telling a story to
a support group.  very intense and emotional.  though it's very
descriptive.  the lyrics themselves seem to describe some sort of terrain
(i didn't listen that closely.  i was typing, for god's sake!) "there was a
black rock that stuck up, but we couldn't pass it because the tide was
going the wrong way."  a clarinet solos near the end, leaving the light
reverbing guitar to finish the song.

"green ray" (1:53)

picture still point w/o the feedback and you get the general mood of this
song.  same guitar, and rachel sings on this one (i love her voice!).
cello is the unusual instrument for this song.  does a solo about half
through, then gives way to another verse.  no drums.  "no one to share.
alone. and there's people all around you."  stunningly beautiful.  the
cello in this song augments her voice perfectly.

"orange zero" (4:53)

very slow, two gently strummed guitars and lightly tapped symbols make up
this song.  rachel sings again.  "takin' it back now. . ." beautiful.  then
the noise jumps in, all of the sudden. . .  clarinet, distorted, warbling
guitar feedback.  then it ends, after :30 as abrubtly as it started,
feeding back towards the beginning w/more subdued vox, and different lyrics
"turning my back now. . ." the noise starts a minute later and lasts until
the end of the song, when all fades but the guitar and maybe (?) someone
whistling underneath.

"late july" (3:35)

similar guitar work to above, though it sounds happier.  rachel alternates
between speaking and singing.  sounds like she's addressing someone in this
song, "42 chessboard reality."  lyrics a little hard to make out, but she
rattles off numbers (all even) and phrases after each number.  the phrases
become more clear at the end, and though i don't understand the connection
between each one, they sound pretty cool. "zero:  late july" concludes the
song.

"darkness - blue glow" (5:14)

starts out with rachel singing, softly with a lone guitar in the
background, then a piano crashes along with the guitar, and adds to the
song.  random keys plinked in the background with another crash coming
every so often.  there's some minimal percussion going on in the
background, but i can't make out what all of the sounds are, so i'll skip
'em.  the middle and end of the song sees the music getting a little
louder, but it stays at the same slow deliberate confessional-style
throughout.  while some might find this boring, i think it's pretty good.
one last crash near the end, with a soft drumstick tapping symbols leading
into a fadeout. "still nothing's happening. . ."

mono valley (4:42)

well, i won't spend much time on this one, since i already did that in my
review of the 7"  1950s spy-esque guitar with some nifty sounding
bongo-type drums as rachel sings softly underneath them."  loud
clanging/shattering noises (sounding almost like a domestic fight) and
crashing pianos intersperse throughout the middle of the song, and dominate
the end of the song, creating a wall of noise different from the fsa
school.  clarinet plays around for a little bit while the crashing breaking
sounds create aural chaos (or something).  whoops.  looks like i spent
quite a bit of time.  oh well.

"coastal lagoon" (:21)

hah!  this one's easy.  a few drum noises/tap dancing type sounds play
around for about 20 seconds.

"alkaline eye" (2:02)

slow guitars, timpani (?), rachel sings, softly on this one.  ooohhh!  the
slow strumming rythm guitar stays the same and her voice rises in intensity
in this one, singing out over the rhythym and drum part. "the sun draws
patterns like neon signs and doves cry above telegraph wires. . ."  this is
supreme as well.

"3am walking smoking talking" (5:14)

the guitar in this one reminds me of the one at the beginning of the cure's
"in your house."  it and a droning, almost mosquito-like clarinet start out
the song, while rachel speaks underneath it.  vox understandable but a bit
buried beneath the noise. "vacant twisted veins on the armchair.  four
roman candles.  burnt out.  sky's black."  i could pick that out a bit
better b/c the guitar stops and the clarinet drones on alone.  then the
guitar jumps back in, and she starts singing.  guitar gets noisier and more
distorted.  she starts speaking again, and the clarinet drones on almost
inaudibley.  song slows.  she talks on as the guitar takes on a weird
accordian-like sound.  then distortion starts to rise and fall in waves. "i
don't want to be your alkaline eye."  then a sample of a horn section from
some old movie enters the song, but only for a moment.  music and vocals
stop as a ticking clock fades out.

"three fires" (3:36)

this song is sort of the climax of an album.  she sings her heart out on
this one, her voice rising and falling in intensity, with the peaks being
the best singing on the album.  the guitar work is the same minimal
rhythmic work found on the rest of the album.  at the parts of the song
when her voice rised, the cello rises in intensity, too.  when her voice
falls, the cello subdues itself.  the clarinet joins in briefly as the song
begins to wind down.  percussion is mostly cymbols, tapped with wooden
sticks.

that untitled track 12 (1:07):  it's just a bass and singing (w/some light
guitar), but if you listen really closely, you can hear what's either light
rainfall on pavement or static (not sure) and running footsteps somewhere
around :50 or so.  oh, the vocals on this song are a reprise from 3am
walking smoking talking.  i just noticed that now, b/c i did this one first
for some reason.

well, there you have it.  a monster of a review, indeed.  maybe i got a
little carried away, but hey, it was fun (and it wasn't writing my paper,
uh-oh. better do that.) this album has leapfrogged past pygmalion and
sargasso sea in my best of '95 sweepstakes.  maybe on an even keel.  we'll
see.

if you get a chance to hear this band, check them out.  though i didn't
catch the lyrics enough to get a clue about what each song was about, all
of the songs have a raw, personal feel to them.  this cd would make an
excellent soundtrack to a movie about a troubled life in the 1920s.  the
black and white photo on the cover really adds to this feeling of "old
fashionedness."  this album is timeless, at home in any era, and i give it
a damn high recommendation.

i'll stop raving, now

BiZ

oh, and all but two songs were recorded in a span of two days.  great stuff.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:43:27 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Scheer, Cocteaus, Echobelly, Web Site... phew!


Jack B Huynh  wrote:
 >
 > I agree with Eric that even at a high speed connection, the 4ad
 > pages are just too graphics intensive. As a semi pro www
 > designer myself, I find it very primitive in terms HTML design.
 > They need to get off the old paradigm of traditional graphics
 > design. I believe Paul Mcmaiam (of v23) is in charge of the art
 > direction and it shows. As nice as it is, half the people will
 > be turing off their graphics the next time they visit the site!

The contrast with Jack's very good Cocteaus WWW site at


is instructive.  I *always* have graphics turned off when I visit new
sites, and load the graphics later if things look interesting.  I usually
get bored waiting for the 4AD graphics to load, and go somewhere else
instead (and I'm using a Unix workstation at an academic site with
high-speed internet access, so goodness knows what it's like for people
with modems!).  I have never got as far as looking at the Mojave
interview.  Actually, I tell a lie - it's loading as I'm typing this,
and taking about ten minutes to do so (and it's fairly early in the UK
working day, probably the middle of the night in the US).

Steven W Hill  wrote:
 >
 > Personally, I understand your point, but I think their top
 > priority is to impress visually...and even you admit without
 > hesitation that they do.  Imparting information is probably a
 > lower priority, but they still do it (albeit inconveniently).
 > It's tough to find a compromise or even decide if you *want* to
 > compromise since there is always someone with a slower computer
 > and dial-up link than you. Maybe someday they'll do text-only
 > pages, but there's zero visual appeal in that.  -shill

I like text.  Most worthwhile sites have a lot of text on them, perhaps
not in fancy fonts or with Netscape's groovy background images blurring
the words, perhaps just plain old boring text.  You know, information as
in "*nf*rm*t**n s*p*rh*ghw*y".  The 4AD site is pretty good on the
visuals (when they eventually load), but doesn't actually have much
*content*.

"Scott, Mari & Brian"  wrote:

 > 1.) Well I haven't been able to find the new Sheer album
 > anywhere is it even out yet?

Not as far as I know.  There's a new EP next year, I think.

 > 2.) I bought this album from Echobelly and it sounds like Bow
 > Wow Wow in a way. Now someone recommend to me something good.

Echobelly started off great, for the first couple of singles, and they
are now the epitome of the underachieving, conservative BritPop (TM)
band.  Air Miami's album is rather super, if you want a recommendation.

".mark."  wrote:
 >
 > anyway, a list was started, because (this is the official
 > reason) the relative lace of cocteaux content on the net.  the
 > real reason:  because many cocteaux fans couldn't stand the
 > traffic on 4ad-l...a shame, methinks.  anyway, after a quiet
 > period and an almost-a-flame-war-but-still-good discussion (in
 > which i participated just a li'l too much) the list has slipped
 > into top tens and such....percisely why it shouldn't never have
 > started in the first place, IMHO.  oh well...i'm still on it.

My heart sank when the first of those "hey, why don't we all list our
top ten bands that aren't the twins" messages appeared.  It's typical of
many of the lists on the net - after the initial burst of enthusiasm,
there's either very little traffic or a huge amount of rubbish.  As the
Cocteaus list started specifically because certain people objected to
the huge volume of, well, posts like this one from me, it's a little
ironic to see the same thing happening there.

The Mojave 3 interview page, by the way, is 48% loaded, ten minutes
after I started.  Netscape tells me there are twelve minutes to go, and
I think I'm about to look at Mirsky's "worst of the web" instead.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // nja@le.ac.uk // 15/12/95
On my walkman this morning : Autechre - Amber
The eternal note of sadness in.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:23:44 PST
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: Enough of the E-mail...


It seems e is taking a bit of flack for his wit / humour / lack of tact etc. Fir
tly e
doesn't need defending (I know he's good enough on his own), but he seems to
drop off the list and then reappear with the old sharpened tongue. The new liste
s
seem to get offended very easily because they havn't heard the likes before.Thos
 who have
had dealings with the lad before have seen the humour etc. and are used to it / 
njoy it.
I myself find his comments entertaining and always read his messages. I've been
flamed personally before by said e, and I havn't exactly gone for therapy. So if
you
are the sensitive type, reply in private why don't ya.

On a music note, how is the new Enya?

Chris
All you need is alcohol and a flame-proof coat....

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:49:06 -0600
From: Sung Shim (foss@WWA.COM)
Subject: Re: hisnameisaliveLIVE


At 12:08 AM 12/15/95 -0600, you wrote:
>>with Warren and Davin.  We had got to talking about the past few PDM shows
>>(all of which I missed mainly because I didn't find out about them until 2
>
>this sounds really fab!  anyone from wisconsin, minnesota, or iowa going?

     i dunno about those states, but this homeboy from chicago might go if
it happens.

sung
---
  foss@wwa.com
  http://shoga.wwa.com/~foss/


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:57:43 -0600
From: Sung Shim (foss@WWA.COM)
Subject: 4ad web site and slow access


At 09:43 AM 12/15/95 +0000, you wrote:
>The Mojave 3 interview page, by the way, is 48% loaded, ten minutes
>after I started.  Netscape tells me there are twelve minutes to go, and
>I think I'm about to look at Mirsky's "worst of the web" instead.

     i think you should blame your connection to the net more than their
bulky graphics, 48% in ten minutes is bandwidth problems.  i think v23's
biggest problem is not utilizing JPEGs, it would shrink the sizes in half
and thus the d/ling in half.  i frequent the 4AD site and things load up
fairly quickly for me, and i'm on a 28.8k PPP connection.  i for one am
happy with their huge use of graphics, maybe it's not quite tweaked to
efficiency but it sure is lovely in comparison to the so many drab
looking-boring pages that we run into all the time.  in anycase, i could see
that if their site turned out to be big on text and information, people
would undoubtedly be shouting 'where is the cool design element i was hoping
for?'

sung
---
  foss@wwa.com
  http://shoga.wwa.com/~foss/

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:20:58 -0500
From: varoom! (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: fsa/Britpop, shitpop, middle-class twitpop/e/Brian


>hey, i just noticed that "in the light of time" from further uses the same
>guitar line as "wish" from fsa.  do they do this with other stuff, too?
>

Probably. That reminds me: has anyone else noticed that there are two or
three tracks on the new Labradford album that start the same way, with the
same bass parts?

>> > by the way, what do you think about them and the batch of new
>> >british bands out there such as powder, cast, coast, and northern uproar?
>>
>> Well, if they sound as bad as they look (and they do seem to be turning out
>> some seriously ugly, desperately unstylish bands there these days), then I
>> don't think much of them.
>
>Bollocks to that.  Cast are pretty good and excellent live.
>Admittedly it could be argued their style is 'unoriginal', but then
>if their music is good, and enjoyed by some what's wrong with it?  I
>often remove one of my proper relevant-to-this-list 4ad CDs out of
>the player and listen to the Cast album.

Well, that's my point. If they're not going to do something original, I'm
not interested. There's nothing "wrong" with it, but it just doesn't do
anything for me. I can't read MM or NME without feeling a certain weariness
afterwards, as if to say "Jeez, hasn't all this been done before? Why do so
many of these bands look the same?" Maybe we're not getting all the stuff
here on this side of the Atlantic that you are in the UK (and N American
music is generally pretty awful too), but I find that a) I'm buying very
little English music these days; b) I'm certainly not buying it because it's
English; and c) I'm definitely not buying any music that makes a big deal of
its Englishness.

>>Anyone notice that one person leaves for every message I post to this
>>list? Maybe I should do a marathon sometime and see if I can't empty out
>>the whole lot of you!
>>
>>
>> einexile, charter member of the Undead Prosaics Army
>
>You obviously give yourself TOO much credit. If you think that the mindless
>blather that fills the ill formed tripe you pass for arguments is causing
>people to unsubscribe, think again. Avoid placing your head near sharp
>objects to avoid the danger of popping that over bloated under-worked
>apparatus. =^)
>
> ======================= ============================ =======================
>|                       |                            | ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~    |
>|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |  xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx   |
>|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |   xx  xx  ~~  xx  xx  |
>|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |    xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx |
>|                       |                            |     ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~|
> ======================= ============================ =======================

Oh god we're funny aren't we? You just didn't get it, did you? BTW, your
.sig contains the same typo, TWICE, so you can stop looking so smug anytime now.

>     it even out yet?

Nope.

>  2.) I bought this album from Echobelly and it sounds like Bow Wow Wow
>      in a way. Now someone recommend to me something good.
>
>  3.) I think I'm going to get the Cibo Matto cd because the guy who
>      runs their page on the web said they were nice and everyone says
>      they are diffrent. I'm a moron, huh.
>
>  4.) My copies of Lush's "Superblast!" and "For Love" should get to my
>      house soon.

Guess what, Brian? No one cares!

>  There, answer those while I the eat dinner that Scott paid for and
> Mari cooked!

There you have it, listies. Not only is he, as he himself said, a moron, but
he's also a sponge!

L


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:57:46 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: on enya and at my wit's end


On Fri, 15 Dec 1995 Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM wrote:

> It seems e is taking a bit of flack for his wit / humour / lack of tact etc.

I still don't know what I said that offended anyone. The thing about my
posts? Oh, that! I was just trying to kill every last one of you! No need
to get all uptight about that.

I don't think the whiners really want to say what they are upset about;
it's no coincidence that they don't just up and announce what's bothering
them; that would ruin everything; this is a perfect rallying point for
indignant newbie whining. I take offense to this not only because this
list, myself included, is very friendly to new subscribers, but because
those who *do* get flamed try to act like all the other newbies deserve
it too. Reality is that new people join this list virtually every day who
are cool and who assimilate easily and without incident. Reality is that
people don't get shouted down here for being new; they get shouted down
for doing something legitimately careless.

> Firstly e doesn't need defending (I know he's good enough on his own)

Thank you, but it is nice to have some support when you are being
attacked on a purely non-intellectual level. It's really not pleasing at
all to be made a scapegoat for something that doesn't actually happen,
and there's not much you can do about it except wait for those attacking
you to get bored and move onto Eric. Maybe when they are done with him
they will move on to Spiral or Andrew; aren't they responsible for world
hunger and French nuclear testing in the pacific? And they looked at me
funny just a minute ago! Did you see that??

> I've been
> flamed personally before by said e, and I havn't exactly gone for therapy.

I don't recall the thread. Would you mind refreshing my memory just for
the same of interest/trivia?

Okay, here goes...


Enya - The Memory of Trees
--------------------------

> On a music note, how is the new Enya?

It kind of sucks.

Okay, here's what up with this Enya record. It is better than Shepherd
Moon, but I classify Shepherd Moon as really bad. To me, it was a
disappointment on a level with Twist of Shadows, Vision Thing, Electric,
Ejector Seat Reservation. If only everyone could be The Legendary Pink
Dots and put out shitty albums now and then but always return to
brilliance. :( It depends on how you look at Enya. The Memory of Trees
has some tracks on which are arguably up to Watermark standards, but it
also has some stuff that wouldn't be fit for inclusion on Shepherd Moon.
The title track and "Pax Deorum" are both very pretty songs, but even
here the style seems to have cheapened somewhat, though Pax has a nice,
ominous, dark-epic side to it that she has not up until now shown. Then
there's "Anywhere Is" which is corny, too happy. There's not much wrong
with it, but it's bothersome because it is essentially New Age music.
"Athair Ar Neamh" is very pretty for the most part, but has a middle
section that kind of ruins it with an up-with-people, Queen-ish chord
change. The middle parts are way off on this album. "From Where I Am" is
a horrible piece of New Age piano fluff like you would hear at Nordstroms
or wherever you buy *your* fine scented bath oils. It is complete trash.
Don't they have friends who can play the piano? "China Roses" is the most
infuriating song on the album; it begins with a beautiful verse which
ends on an irritating return to the key's tonic, Nick Cave style. The
chorus to the song is a little bit cheezy; fine. And there are new age
bleeps everywhere, though admittedly somewhat subdued. It's really pretty
nice anyhow. But then she fucking ruins it all! There are start trek
chords! Then it breaks into a bridge which may well contain the ugliest
chord progression I have EVER heard. I cried out when I heard it for the
first time! Uncontrollably I yelped, "Yuck! What the hell was that!?" The
song is completely ruined. Fuck it. Next track. I still haven't heard the
rest of the song. In fact I haven't given the rest of the album a fair
shake so from here on my opinions are going to be kind of cursory. I will
conclude now, for those who've had enough of this review, that the album
is worth buying if you must have every good Enya song, because there are
good Enya songs here; but it is not much better than a good ep, broken up
and scattered across a bunch of complete shit. If you want a genuinely
good album, screw Enya and buy yourself a copy of Excursions in Ambient:
The Second Orbit or the new Legendary Pink Dots record or the Elysium
album. Okay, "Hope Has a Place". A nice slow piece that might fit on
Watermark except that it has an Americana flavor to it I can't really put
my finger on. Not a bad song. "Tea House Moon" is more bad New Age but
with the benefit that, disgusting as it is, it is nevertheless kind of a
good tune. "Once You Had Gold" is revolting, "heartfelt" semi-opera and
sounds like some old folk tune from the late sixties. Her voice is not at
all suited to the task and she makes an ass of herself. There is also a
very stupid bridge. I've figured it out! This woman is the exact opposite
of Stina Nordenstam! "La Sanadora" is gorgeous for a while before it
breaks into the typical Enya bullshit and is predictably ruined. "On My
Way Home" ends the album on a peculiar note, fast and bleepy with some
beats, totally unlike the rest of the album, like the extra "Storms in
Africa" on the domestic release of Watermark. And this is the good part.
When it hits the chorus the song kicks into something approaching a
sitcom theme, or perhaps more along the lines of a bad medical drama. And
then the album is over and not soon enough. I can't say I'm not glad I
have it, because three of the songs are very nice, but it's basically a
terrible album. Sorry to be so negative and vicious but I hold Watermark
in as high an esteem as any album you would care to name, and few things
in art make me angrier than the stupid direction Enya's music has taken.
It is a pathetic, outdated joke.


 einexile


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:49:07 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: 4ad web site and slow access

              at Dec 15, 95 05:57:43 am

Sung Shim  wrote:
>
> At 09:43 AM 12/15/95 +0000, I wrote:
> >The Mojave 3 interview page, by the way, is 48% loaded, ten minutes
> >after I started.  Netscape tells me there are twelve minutes to go, and
> >I think I'm about to look at Mirsky's "worst of the web" instead.
>
>      i think you should blame your connection to the net more than their
> bulky graphics, 48% in ten minutes is bandwidth problems.

Correct.  4AD's site appears to be in the USA, and I'm sitting on the
other side of a huge expanse of water.  There are well-known bandwidth
problems across that ocean, which caused most US/UK communication to
grind to a halt a couple of weeks ago.  It's not just a problem with the
4AD site - any large-scale data transfer across the Atlantic is
s_l_o_[connection reset by host].  I was trying to get the Gnu C
compiler direct from MIT a couple of months ago by FTP, and it took
literally hours - once I had found a mirror site in the UK, the same
amount of information took about ten minutes to transfer.

The "world" wide web has a way to go yet - I can get images almost
instantaneously from anywhere in Europe, but the States?  Forget it.
I'd be interested to know about US experiences with sites in the UK and
the rest of Europe.  Oh, and incidentally, if anyone can see my ugly
face at http://www.engg.le.ac.uk/staff/NORMAN.HTM let me know by private
E-mail - I'm not sure if Pop has set up our www server to be accessible
from outside Leicester.

 > i think v23's biggest problem is not utilizing JPEGs, it would
 > shrink the sizes in half and thus the d/ling in half.  i
 > frequent the 4AD site and things load up fairly quickly for me,
 > and i'm on a 28.8k PPP connection.  i for one am happy with
 > their huge use of graphics, maybe it's not quite tweaked to
 > efficiency but it sure is lovely in comparison to the so many
 > drab looking-boring pages that we run into all the time.  in
 > anycase, i could see that if their site turned out to be big on
 > text and information, people would undoubtedly be shouting
 > 'where is the cool design element i was hoping for?'

There is a Middle Way (as so often) between the 4AD site's "cool but
huge graphics and very little information" and the older-style "lots of
ASCII text and no pictures" sites - as I said, Jack's Cocteaus site is a
good illustration.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // nja@le.ac.uk // 15/12/95
On my walkman this morning : Autechre - Amber
The eternal note of sadness in.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:39:21 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: the bedwetting before christmas


----------------------------
>From the Projekt Family to yours, the wampyrs hanging from Sam
Rosenthal's aluminum Chanukkah tree bring you tidings of Christmas evil
and the holiday season through the eyes of a second rate Andres Serrano.

It's terrible. Don't buy it. I went into this quite wary of the whole
concept, and even after hearing a few bad tracks I bought it. I am a fan
of This Ascension, of Thanatos, of Lycia, of Faith and the Muse, of Love
Spirals Downwards...it couldn't be all bad, could it? Well it almost is
all bad. All of these bands mentioned above produced complete shit for
this album. A quick runthrough, mainly because there are some good points
that shouldn't be lost in the sludge:

The Arcania song is silly and has affected, bad singing. I can appreciate
the atmospherics and the harmonies, but they are entirely inappropriate
to the song except as a witless 180 degree reversal of concept. And it
goes nowhere.

Love Spirals Downwards completely ruin the best Christmas song ever
written, adding two uninspired sections to the music and offering a
generally lifeless performance. Like almost everything on the album, it
is entirely predicatable and obvious. They simply ran the song through
the Love Spirals Downwards machine and out popped the song with a Love
Spirals Downwards hat on--but it is not LSD. LSD, except on Of These
Reminders, have been original and passionate and professional. This track
is hackneyed and sloppy.

FuchiKachis Ethu. Who? What sounds like Padriac Ogle's guitar strumming
with some keyboard presets and some high school banshees doing what's
expected of them in harmony that goes nowhere. In southern California
no one can hear you scream, because every teenage girl not blessed with
asthma is a classical musician.

This Ascension have gone way downhill. Their recent album really kind of
stinks and this, all the way up to the seventies disco vocals and power
rock drums right out of some bad anime, is much, much worse. Ding, dong.
buy some effects and plug your fucking keyboard into them!!

Area do O Come Emmanuel, and while the new vocalist lacks skill, she
nevertheless has class and her voice is intensely charming. If she could
stay on pitch and didn't get breathy at times, this would be the model
for what this album should have been. I mean this not as a slagging but
as a bit of good news, that someone really good is on her way if she gets
her shit together. Kris Krasnowski is her name and for her alone I do not
entirely regret purchasing this album. The treatment of the song is
tasteful; dark but in a way that fits the spirit of the song.

Thanatos does The First Noel and it goes nowhere at all. It is exactly
the same case as with the LSD track.

lovesliescrushing are not active participants in the creation of the
noise that they record on tape; they rely on quirks of their equipment
and do not sculpt it artistically. There are moments on their album when
they do, but these moments are few and far between. As a rule, my guitar
has come up with more interesting music on its own while I left the room,
and this is not a joke. Jingle Bells? Please. Jingle bells my ass. I've
heard it before a thousand times from a thousand different bands who want
people to not hear their music because the music is embarrassing or not
there at all, and I'm sick of it.

Balderas & Osborn, whoever they are, do What Child Is This?, and it is an
orgy of keyboard presets, an arrangement that offers nothing new
whatsoever. What child is this that has recorded this song? They even
used the tacky (i.e. not Greensleeves) version of the music.

Black Tape for a Blue Girl do Chanukkah, Oh Chanukkah, and it is the
second good track on the album. In fact it is wonderful--a nice,
effective epic feel to it, and the vocals are reserved, lovely, and used
intelligently to create atmosphere and space. How could the person
responsible for this track have chosen the drek that makes up the rest of
this album?? He plays a trick with the chords at the end which is
beautiful and surprising and just perfect.

And now, a band that calls itself Sorrow, who are not hip enough to know
that there is already a band called Sorrow who are much better and who
have four albums out. So they don't know Rose MacDowall and so they don't
know Strawberry Switchblade or Current 93 or Death in June...so they suck
anyway, but just to enhance this fact they ruined The Little Drummer Boy.
They made the song intentionally ugly and silly without good cause and I
cannot see why on earth they might wish to do this except that they have
have nothing better to do. Again, keyboard presets. And probably a sound
effects CD.

The Lycia and "The Silent Void" version of Wee Three Kings is like the
LSD and Thanatos tracks. It's just nothing but what you could do yourself
by feeding the sheet music into a computer representation of Lycia
cliches. I love Lycia but not for their well demonstrated ability to
create foolishness like this. And has anyone noticed that Mike
Vanportfleet is starting to sound like the dude from The Psychedelic
Furs?

Eva O do O Holy Night and the result sounds like Perry Farrell and Bruce
Dickenson trying to have a baby together. The middle part is very pretty,
and the track is at least a skillful and creative treatment, but I'm
sorry, for the most part it's ugly as sin and basically affected and in
poor taste. And I meant what I said about Dickenson and Farrell having a
baby.

I was once told, by a friend who eventually disowned me for condemning
the American jury selection process, that Faith and the Muse represents
Monica Whatserface's necessary growth as an artist and is a bold step in
the direction her career needed. Think again! One of the best bands in
the world was dashed on the rocks for THIS?? She has gone from classy,
ass kicking vocalist of the last great goth band, to this JOKE, this
folksy, stupid bullshit. I have seen few wastes as great as the breakup
of Strange Boutique, and for Faith and the Muse to disintegrate to this
nonexistent level just makes me sick to my stomach.

Autopsia's Stille Nacht would be nice if it didn't build up to a fairly
boring and traditional view of the song. It starts out with a rather nice
feel to it, though again, I fail to see why it makes sense to perform it
in this way except for the in-your-face Terrible Christmas factor.

Attrition do the same thing, but with such vision and professionalism
that I really cannot hold it against them, and the direction of the song
is at least thoughtful. What I get from it is basically unpleasantness
not related to Christmas itself but to the holiday season. It doesn't
strike me as particularly useful to paint that in a sterile, apocalyptic
form except basically to put someone in a bad mood. I'd rather listen to
spooky Christmas music that makes me think of the coming of the
antichrist than spooky Christmas music that makes me think of child abuse
and mental anguish, but the song is still beyond reproach because
Attrition are great and the track is so effective. And it's not like they
ruined the album, is it?

Anyway, there you go. The end. That's three good songs, two decent ones,
and ten of the worst pieces of shit I have yet seen stain a sheet of
foil. Ye have been warned.

On the cover we have a picture of an evil angel, obviously on a stage
(and I know it's supposed to be obviously on a stage, but why?) The model
looks like she is sick of holding those things up or thinks the idea is
ridiculous, which it it. Inside are Susan Jennings photographs of Santa
Claus' Fallen Reindeer. The back of the answer reads exactly as follows:

                  the king's son calls me the "dark one"
                           if he calls me again
                            i will go with him
                            - sephardic verse

I think maybe this whole Darkambient thing needs a LOT of work. Or a lot
of dirt.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:04:55 EDT
From: Steve Kafasis (Steve_Kafasis@WALNUT.PRS.K12.NJ.US)
Subject: Re: 4ad web site and slow access


please take me of you mailings tahnk you very much
-Steve Kafasis


-----Princeton Regional Schools takes no responsibility for the
    accuracy or content of the above message.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:48:59 -0500
From: "John B. Jones" (jojones@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU)
Subject: Re: First mail


>Hello
>   I just subscribed to this list, and I'm pretty happy I have found
>it's address (someone from the dominion list sent it to me), because I
>had an old one.
>   Now, I just received my first messages, and I'm a little afraid.
>Almost all of them were agressive. Since I am from Argentina and I don't
>have a good english, please have patience, I wouldn't like to be
>discrimined just for being new, or anything else but my oppinions or
>ideas.

Che'!

No te preocupes concerniente tu ingles.  Me imagino que sos un capo, a
causa de tus opiniones buenos de la musica de 4AD.

Donde vivis? En Baires? O otra parte?

Yo vivi en varias partes de Argentina (Cordoba, Santiago del Estero, Salta,
Mendoza) en los anos 86 & 87.

Me imagino que hay otros en esta lista que tambien hablan espanol.  Quizas
hagamos una lista de 4AD para hispanohablantes! (ja ja ja)


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
John B. Jones                           e-mail: jojones@mailbox.syr.edu


currently the fifth stooge: Phlegm.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:54:53 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: This Rimmee Riva and Main


>Are you talking about the 'This Rimy River' ltd.?? AN ETCHED GLASS COVER??=
>=20
>How do they think they get these undamaged through the mail? I only paid =A3=
>=20
>10,- for postage!

Yes I was. Hmmm. Perhaps Vaughan's going to deliver them all himself -
hence the cost. Needs some exercise...

>The final part of Main's "Hertz" single series appeared in the shops
>yesterday - they have finished with what counts for a merry Yuletide
>singalong in their world, i.e. Robert murmuring "forever chromatic"
>(probably) over a rumbling bass, sandwiched with echoing, throbbing
>ambience a la "Ligature".  Comes with a stout grey cardboard box to hold
>all six CDs, and a beautiful booklet with lots of photos of metamorphic
>rocks.

What exactly are Main like? I mean, what's their closest comparison group
wise? I've been tempted to try them out just because of the sexy sleeves -
very (badly?) early 4AD-ish, what with the Bodoni Ultra and textural
photos. How many CD's do you buy each week Andrew? You seem to forever be
reviewing another new acquisition! Keeping Ainleys/that shop in the Silver
Arcade/St Martins open eh? Good on you.

Andie


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:22:29 -0700
From: sean devine (kober@GAS.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Web site design


with all of this talk of the site, i am yet to see the url.
please please please
thank you
se'an
ok.

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:34:58 -0600
From: "Michael C. Lawyer" (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!


>
> Yeah, what time is it for you? you're delerious or showing off your newly
> learned Poli. Sci. vocab. Thanks! Enlightened!NOT!
>
If you adn't noticed my sig line I apologize for that last post, after an
all night studdy party at embers I was more than a little delerious, and
kind of out of it and still putting off my paper I have to write, I was
in fact being silly, I still think your wring, I don't think e is being a
list nazi, I think he's even somewhat entertaining upon ocasion. anyway
If I offended anyone horribly blame it on finalls

Gleefully drivin
insane by finals week
> >mike defender of list nazi's everywhere and e especially (until he pisses
> >me off, but that's a whole difrent post)

4AD content (DON"T DELETE THIS MESSAGE QUITE YET PLEASE)

I did watch the amps last night, and it looked like Kim had pretty much
replaced her intire band from when she played the cities a few weeks
back, I hear that she was the only one on the recording, but are the Amps
a fixed band, or is it just Kim and whoever happens to be arround that night?

Mike
No I still haven't written my paper why do you think I'm playing on
E-mail again

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:17:29 -0800
From: "Scott, Mari & Brian" (sten@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Christmas songs by 4ad artists/flamejobs


Listen I'm sure most of you are sick of my questions but.......
I heard some christmas songs on the radio (Silent Night, some other
ones) I think they were from Lush or the Cocteaus(SP?) I think it was
Lush but I'm not sure. Anyway they were really pretty songs and It's a
WHOLE LOT BETTER than the feed the children poop they've been looping
it seems.

Speaking of poop........This list has really gone down hill lately (I'm
not one too talk) but can't we all just get along? It's Christmas!


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:17:05 -0500
From: "[spiral]" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: famous nazis on 4ad-l


i didnt know BiZ was a Nazi too!
wow. oi.
before we start throwing around
names that dont in anyway generalize
like ohhhhh... say: NAZI... and RACIST.
take a look at what you are saying.
 e's a racist.
BiZ is a nazi.
can i be a PLO terrorist?
join the fascist clique today!

well, anyways have a nice hooly dey season.
spiral

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:42:24 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Web site design


>I agree with Eric that even at a high speed connection, the 4ad pages
>are just too graphics intensive. As a semi pro www designer myself, I
>find it very primitive in terms HTML design. They need to get off the old
>paradigm of traditional graphics design. I believe Paul Mcmaiam (of v23)
>is in charge of the art direction and it shows. As nice as it is, half
>the people will be turing off their graphics the next time they visit the
>site!

You mean Paul McMenamin? Is he that guy in the v23 studio? I can't work out
who he is, and every time I miss the guy's name. He sounds like he might
have a North American accent, but I'm not sure... It was ages ago, but I
spoke to Paul on the phone about two years back and he didn't sound like,
and seemed a lot more confident and outgoing than, this guy at the (and I
mean *the* only) computer in the studio.

And why would 4AD have the site based in America if it was being designed
in London? Not to brag, but except for the odd hiccup (sugar one BTW (by
the way for that guy who didn't know what it meant - I'm nice to newbies))
my connection times are not usually excessive to the Site.

And as to the amount of text on the page, doesn't a picture say a thousand
words? Yes - even Jason Love's. I like the minimal text approach - like I
love their sleeves. I agree the way the text is part of a picture (I think
that is right) is a bit of a weird approach when nothing fancy is happening
with the typography. Oh well, they were never ones to take the direct
appraoch to producing designs - "the old paradigm of traditional graphics
design". Uggghhh? Really? Never seen anyone take their pattern of approach
to graphic design, so "traditional"? - or did you mean "their" instead of
"the"? Big differnce I would have thought... Even if you do mean "their",
their style (and hence 4AD's image) is a result of this "paradigm" - would
it be really suitable to drop it all just coz they're switching to a new
medium? Wouldn't it lose the "corperate image" which is such a corner stone
of 4AD? We can all recognise a 4AD sleeve (or a rip-off) at a thousand
yards - I think it would be daft if the Site wasn't to fit the criteria.


Funny seeing that comment about the fact that einexile must have loads of
pseudonyms - I'd always thought the same because I can't see why anyone
else would stick up for that twat, even taking into account his
(exceedingly immature) sense of humour. And I wouldn't be surprised if one
person dropped off the list for every one of his quotes. I can do without
his pubescent remarks about genitalia when someone makes a straightforward,
valid remark which is (God forbid) at odds with his own simpleton's ideas;
especially when he broadcasts remarks made in private e-mail to the whole
list when no-one is interested in reading one of his peurile slagging
matches.

Flames by private e-mail only. If I think they're humourous enough or valid
I will distribute them to the others.

Andie

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:12:47 -0500
From: "[spiral]" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: ARGH!!


hey, relax.

On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Elvia M. Tarango wrote:

> worthy...")..you're a hypocrite and really pathetic.

told you BiZ. you ARE a bastard. its been confirmed.
i didnt know you were pathetic.

> Don't you dare tell me
> what I can or cannot post.

you cant post this.

> Furthermore, don't you dare tell me who is cool
> or who has anything "worthwhile" to say because I really don't care.

youre cool.
so am i..

BiZ lauds e:
> >i think e's
> >contributed more stuff...[snip]

period.

remember when you were little
and your parents would yell at you about
stuff and they would get really mad... and
just get really frustrated cause you couldnt
get where they were coming from. but then when you
get older and have to deal with people you
understand what they were saying and you feel their
frustration. yea. me neither. ;)

two sides to the window. wisdom sometimes
comes with age.(reference e's 10 year
anniversery on the list).  elvia whether you care or
not i hear what you are saying and it
sucks to be ganged up on... but just relax.


                ---> [spiral]
                99lear@lab.cc.wmich.edu

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:10:05 EST
From: Tom Homulka (Thomas_Homulka.WORLDGROUP@NOTES.COMPUSERVE.COM)
Subject: "Chains Changed" track listing


  Can someone please post the track listing of Thowing Muses "Chains
  Changed" EP?

  Thanks,
  Tom
  thomulka.worldgroup@notes.compuserve.com


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:50:26 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: :(


>  lay off e!!! he's my friend!!!
>
>
>
>  k

I'm sure Hitler and Stalin had friends too.

Hey, I'll bet that Slobodan Milosovich has friends.

 ======================= ============================ =======================
|                       |                            | ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~    |
|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |  xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx   |
|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |   xx  xx  ~~  xx  xx  |
|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |    xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx |
|                       |                            |     ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~|
 ======================= ============================ =======================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:50:20 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: on enya and at my wit's end


Weeny-exile recently wrote:
>> I've been
>> flamed personally before by said e, and I havn't exactly gone for therapy.
>
>I don't recall the thread. Would you mind refreshing my memory just for
>the same of interest/trivia?

You seem to forget alot, even about current threads. Like how you were
getting bigheaded and I decided to be obnoxiously rude to you about it.
(Yes, I can admit when I'm not nice.)

If you're having trouble recalling... I think you claimed that one person
left for every post you made and that you should go on a marathon and clean
the list out.

P.S. Your review of the new Enya, absurdly lengthy as it is, is fairly
intellectually anemic. It made me long for breviety and clarity. And
besides trying to intellectualize about music the way you do is pointless
and boring. Who the fuck cares what you think about a particular "chord
progression"?

 ======================= ============================ =======================
|                       |                            | ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~    |
|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |  xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx   |
|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |   xx  xx  ~~  xx  xx  |
|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |    xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx |
|                       |                            |     ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~|
 ======================= ============================ =======================

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:50:15 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: new Enya?


>On a music note, how is the new Enya?
>
>Chris
>All you need is alcohol and a flame-proof coat....

First of all, why does everyone defend weeny-exile? I've read his posts,
and I personally don't think that he stands in danger of winning a Pulitzer
for his writing ability or "sarcastic wit" or whatever you want to call it.
I think he's just some schmuck who tries REAL hard to be an inflammatory
asshole. Too bad he doesn't succeed everytime he wants to. (D'oh! The
previous sentence ended in a preposition.)

ANYWAY..., you asked about the new Enya. I think it's called "In Memory of
Trees..." or something along those lines. I got a chance to listen to an
advance CD (no cool graphics, just white paper) about three times. Because
I was at work, I couldn't listen intently, but it seemed like she is
continuing much on the same vein that she always has.

If you liked her previous work and aren't hoping for any radical new
directions, you will be pleased. If you're getting tired of her, don't buy
it.

 ======================= ============================ =======================
|                       |                            | ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~    |
|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |  xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx   |
|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |   xx  xx  ~~  xx  xx  |
|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |    xx  ~~  xx  ~~  xx |
|                       |                            |     ~~  xx  xx  xx  ~~|
 ======================= ============================ =======================


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:43:35 -0600
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: this whole stupid flame thing


russell wrote:

>I think he's just some schmuck who tries REAL hard to be an inflammatory
>asshole.

you haven't been doing such a bad job at this yourself, sir.  disagreements
of opinion are one thing, but serious, personal attacks, that's just sick.

spiral wrote:

>> worthy...")..you're a hypocrite and really pathetic.

>told you BiZ. you ARE a bastard. its been confirmed.
>i didnt know you were pathetic.

well, spiral. you're an asshole!  we'll see if you get that 7" ;)

>wisdom sometimes
>comes with age.(reference e's 10 year
>anniversery on the list).  elvia whether you care or
>not i hear what you are saying and it
>sucks to be ganged up on... but just relax.

spiral's right.  elvia has been taking a lot of flack, and i'm part of it.
my initial comment wasn't that she can't post a dig at e, but that i
disagreed with said dig.  i never told her to unsub, stop posting, or
whatnot.  after that initial comment, a few people jumped to her defense
(even though i wasn't attacking her so much as her opinion).  and it has
now gotten more than a little carried away.  please everyone just calm
down.  elvia's cool, and i never meant to suggest otherwise.

BiZ

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:23:43 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: twinlights lyrics please...


I think the problem with the list is that most of the people on it
know most of what they want to know about the Cocteau Twins, so there
is not much discussion.

Anybody seen Volume 15 yet?


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:34:54 +0000
From: Jack Huynh (jhuy@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Web site design


At 12:42 PM 12/15/95 -0500, you wrote:

>And why would 4AD have the site based in America if it was being designed
>in London? Not to brag, but except for the odd hiccup (sugar one BTW (by
>the way for that guy who didn't know what it meant - I'm nice to newbies))
>my connection times are not usually excessive to the Site.

Actaully, paul is in LA now.

>
>And as to the amount of text on the page, doesn't a picture say a thousand
>words? Yes - even Jason Love's. I like the minimal text approach - like I
>love their sleeves. I agree the way the text is part of a picture (I think
>that is right) is a bit of a weird approach when nothing fancy is happening
>with the typography. Oh well, they were never ones to take the direct
>appraoch to producing designs - "the old paradigm of traditional graphics
>design". Uggghhh? Really? Never seen anyone take their pattern of approach
>to graphic design, so "traditional"? - or did you mean "their" instead of
>"the"? Big differnce I would have thought... Even if you do mean "their",
>their style (and hence 4AD's image) is a result of this "paradigm" - would
>it be really suitable to drop it all just coz they're switching to a new
>medium? Wouldn't it lose the "corperate image" which is such a corner stone
>of 4AD? We can all recognise a 4AD sleeve (or a rip-off) at a thousand
>yards - I think it would be daft if the Site wasn't to fit the criteria.
>

I guess i am using the wrong word here. i don't think v23 should lose its
identity, but they shouldn't rely so heavily on large graphic files to
convey their image. there needs to a balance between good content and visual
appeal.

cheers

jack

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:33:06 -0500
From: Roy Burns (RBNRy@AOL.COM)
Subject: "Chains Changed"


Finished
Reel
Snailhead
Cry Baby Cry

Next to "House Tornado", the best Muses record.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:29:31 -0800
From: phil (PLOCKE@US.ORACLE.COM)
Subject: "wrong" opinions


BiZ wrote:

>>few things bother me more than self-appointed 
>
> just thought i'd comment on this one, b/c you're slagging
> this guy for expressing his opinion.

actually, the whole point was that he was implying that his
opinion was the correct one, and anyone who thinks otherwise
is wrong and/or lazy.  i don't think that's OK.

> kind of funny, eh?

ha ha...oh, the subtle irony of it all...oh, the tangled
webs of logic...

> don't take everything so seriously.  not everything people
> say on this list is completely serious. (do you want us to
> put a smiley after every sarcastic/joking remark?)

thanks for the lesson .  i've actually been on
this list for several years, so i think i have a pretty
good idea of how things work, thank you very much.

> calm down.

sorry, i don't feel like taking orders from you.

meanwhile...

Jake wrote:

> I think the point here is that it's ridiculous to tell
> someone that their opinion is "wrong", especially for
> something as subjective as music...

exactly.  that _was_ the point.
thank you for your post {:{)}

--phil

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:44:23 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: e (was Re: new Enya?


On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, Russell Martin wrote:

> First of all, why does everyone defend weeny-exile? I've read his posts,
> and I personally don't think that he stands in danger of winning a Pulitzer
> for his writing ability or "sarcastic wit" or whatever you want to call it.
> I think he's just some schmuck who tries REAL hard to be an inflammatory
> asshole.

and just what do you call repeated flaming of someone who you know is
liked and respected on this list?

> Too bad he doesn't succeed everytime he wants to.

He's obviously succeeded pretty well in inflaming you, pal.  Try
switching to decaf.

>(D'oh! The previous sentence ended in a preposition.)

Actually, it ended in an elliptical infinitive.  Just so you know.
-----
wendy

in your bunkbed you said i was bit by a snake so you sucked out the poison
but you left all of the pain you tasted my blood and you said it was too
sweet so you poured salt in the wound but it made you weep...   racecar


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:36:07 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: e-bashing [was Re: new Enya?]


>First of all, why does everyone defend weeny-exile? I've read his posts,
>and I personally don't think that he stands in danger of winning a Pulitzer
>for his writing ability or "sarcastic wit" or whatever you want to call it.
>I think he's just some schmuck who tries REAL hard to be an inflammatory
>asshole.

e has written some of the most perceptive and well-crafted (and longest!)
reviews ever to appear on this list. Not enough people bother to post
coherent reviews, let alone multi-paragraph ones, so that's enough reason
to treasure him. He's also got a wicked sense of humor. Granted, a few of
the things he posts are just random garbage, but you've got to take the
bitter with the sweet.

>|  Liz or Russ          |  "Crawls into you system   |
>|  russellm@            |   when you guard is down"  |
>|  xmission.com         |                   -Curve   |

He also doesn't have typos in his .signature. :)
Although you recover some bonus points for the hanging punctuation.

__________
Jens Alfke  __________________
            jens@mooseyard.com
                          _______________________________________________
                         "Ten, sir," said the tensor.
                          Tension, apprehension and dissention have begun.

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:16:13 -0800
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Dart...

              at Dec 9, 95 08:01:34 pm

As much as I hate to do this, I'm doing it on the urging of our drummer
(Anthony RHP)...and there's obviously, then, some slight 4AD relevance,
though, I know I'm stretching it thin!

Dart is another band that Anthony Koutsos of RHP is in.  We are on the
illustrious Che label.  We have 3 singles out (the last one sucks, I
know...that's what happens when you let the record company have their
way...doh!) and an album coming out on February 11th.

We're playing a few shows around the SF area in the next 6 weeks and I
thought I'd post something, in hopes that someone would show up besides
those people that we beg and plead with!!!

The schedule is as follows:

12/16 - The Hotel Utah w/Chuck Prophet - 10pm
1/4   - Formula (in Emeryville...destined to be a great club) w/Action Slacks
        and the Grady Sisters
1/18  - Bottom of the Hill w/Idaho and Spain (oughtta be a great show!)
1/31  - The Edge (Palo Alto) w/Innocence Mission (unconfirmed until later
        this afternoon!)

and there's the possibility of a show by Sweet Cream USA (a Dave Roback
side project) at the Kilowatt, but thats VERY unconfirmed.

So, uh, thanks for letting me plug myself and please don't flame me
unless its really fucking good!!

Rick

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:46:51 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: e flamage again [Re: Re: on enya and at my wit's end]


Russell Martin writes:
>If you're having trouble recalling... I think you claimed that one person
>left for every post you made and that you should go on a marathon and clean
>the list out.

Yes, e said that but that's not what he person you quoted (damn, I've
forgotten who it was already, was it eric?) asked -- he couldn't remember
why e had flamed _him_ a few months ago. We're all painfully aware of
this current brouhaha.

>P.S. Your review of the new Enya, absurdly lengthy as it is, is fairly
>intellectually anemic. It made me long for breviety and clarity. And
>besides trying to intellectualize about music the way you do is pointless
>and boring. Who the fuck cares what you think about a particular "chord
>progression"?

Damn, my filter is bulking up quickly. I may have the whole subscriber
base filtered into the trash before e gets done making them all
unsubscribe* ... unless they all start killing e's postings and he fails
in his mission.

*This was sarcasm, saying something exaggerated that you don't really
mean, for humor or to make a point. No offense was intended to the many
loyal listies who post meaningful content that I gratefully read. Had
this been an honest attempt to alienate all 398 of you, you would have
been told in no uncertain terms. Thank you.

__________
Jens Alfke  __________________
            jens@mooseyard.com
                          _______________________________________________
                         "Ten, sir," said the tensor.
                          Tension, apprehension and dissention have begun.


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:20:52 EDT
From: Steve Kafasis (Steve_Kafasis@WALNUT.PRS.K12.NJ.US)
Subject: Re: e-bashing [was Re: new Enya?]


Please send no more mail thanks
-Steve

-----Princeton Regional Schools takes no responsibility for the
    accuracy or content of the above message.


Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:14:36 +0800
From: Tony Ting (s8700057@SINGNET.COM.SG)
Subject: Info on Empire Records NYC wanted!!!


Does anyone know the address of Empire Records NYC which recently release
Liz Phair's 'Secretly Timid' CD. Email me privately.

Thanks!
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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:06:02 CST
From: the boy in zinc (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: disclaimers


>-----Princeton Regional Schools takes no responsibility for the
>    accuracy or content of the above message.

i just wanted to say that i LOVE these disclaimers.  as if princeton
regional schools knows if rhp had a new label, or has an opinion on that
projekt christmas cd.  everytime i see a disclaimer like this on a music
mailing list, it makes me laugh.  anyone else find this amusing?

message.  i understand the purpose of a disclaimer, i just love 'em.

now to watch the tape of the amps from last night.

BiZ