4ad-l Mail for 11-13-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: 4-ad list or not?
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:01:48 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: [misc] CDs which are being sold by me.
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:13:56 -0800
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: Re: suddenly, tammy!
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 13:43:09 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveer
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:11:47 +1300
From: Robin Fargher (robinf@DEV.WHOLESALE.NBNZ.CO.NZ)
Subject: u-ziq (was: Skylab)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:53:51 -0500
From: susan@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:17:55 -0700
From: "E. L. Cable" (ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA)
Subject: not so kranky~
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 02:15:20 -0500
From: Srilank@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: 4-ad list or not?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 00:04:20 -0800
From: snowangel k-j (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Slowdive/Mojave:new topic?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 01:23:53 -0800
From: Ryan (ryan@LEONARDO.NET)
Subject: 100% 4AD Content
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:23:18 PST
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: server problems
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:42:54 GMT
From: AKIRA (dicnnghm@TCD.IE)
Subject: Re: 4-ad list or not?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:20:29 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: scheer
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:54:49 GMT
From: "R.E. BAGLEY" (HIS5REB@ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveer
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 03:58:39 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re. Re. Re - Bollocks, no Mark K.
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 07:19:11 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: blessed are the netpolitzei
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 03:52:40 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: 4AD Content/Einexile
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:56:33 -0500
From: TIM CONLON (U590@SYSM.ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU)
Subject: Not 4AD - Re. Kiss me Kate
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:22:39 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Akropolis Arts -- Submissions Wanted
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:42:54 -0500
From: Timothy Kowalsky (gothicpoet@TORCHLIGHT.COM)
Subject: Akropolis Arts -- Submissions Wanted
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:33:48 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Kooler V-J
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:14:13 -0800
From: "Scott, Mari & Brian" (sten@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: shiFt!
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:51:09 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:49:35 -0600
From: E. L. Cable[SMTP:ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA]
Subject: Re: Kooler V-J
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:18:39 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Re: scheer
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:36:21 -0800
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: Re: not so kranky~
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:27:18 -0600
From: Jon Corbett Wetzel (jcw0003@JOVE.ACS.UNT.EDU)
Subject: who y'gonna call...hatebusters
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:04:00 -0800
From: tired of the flames (PLOCKE@US.ORACLE.COM)
Subject: Mark K dead in tragic snuff film accident!
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:12:36 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: the wrong body shop cd
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:46:21 -0800
From: Candice A Mack (mackc@WATNXT06.UCR.EDU)
Subject: Martin agrees with e shocker!
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:40:51 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: v-j's
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:49:30 -0600
From: "you'll poke your eye out" (joroses@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU)
Subject: Re: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:53:30 CST
From: "Kent J. Vanderwaal" (kjv@MTI.CDC.COM)
Subject: Re[2]: Caroline Records / LPD
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:55:57 CST
From: thad.engeling@CCQM.NATINST.COM
Subject: Yet another 4-ad sampler!
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:59:33 -0500
From: Rodney Rodriguez (ItsonlyRod@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: v-j's
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:55:11 -0500
From: athol-brose (cinnamon@ONE.NET)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveer
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:51:55 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Frequent questions [Re: Re: Are these taking the piss?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:45:22 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Kooler V-J
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:13:47 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: About TAD and XAD things...
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:36:30 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Singing Lessons?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:37:24 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: dorky bands some people like
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:34:34 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: please buy my cds and vinyl
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:58:29 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: CDs for sale...
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:13:06 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: whither 4ad list?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:56:29 -0800
From: nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU
Subject: everyone is wrong about otherness
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:09:57 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: 4AD fans
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:25:00 PST
From: bahman (IZZYW5B@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Non-4AD: Love your enemies
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:29:05 +0000
From: Jon Kvebaek (ceejok@CEE.HW.AC.UK)
Subject: Non-4AD: Love your enemies
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:45:19 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Non-4AD: Love your enemies
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:36:41 -0500
From: Suey (chon@VIRTU.SAR.USF.EDU)
Subject:
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:52:35 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Review: QuickSpace Supersport
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:26:31 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: the body shop cd
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:51:44 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Kooler V-J
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:35:54 -0800
From: Sharkless girl (uthelene@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Body Shop CD, SAn Francisco
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:59:09 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: RHP
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:57:07 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: what?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:57:30 -0600
From: eric (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: the body shop cd
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 19:08:45 -0800
From: mvs (mvs@WCO.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD fans
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:32:32 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: "e" and "DREAMS & DESIRES"
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 21:42:32 -0500
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM

Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:01:48 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: 4-ad list or not?


SortSol wrote:
>I'm not a purist. Just assumed that a list called "4AD-L" would contain a
>little more than 10% 4AD content. That's just me though.

It does have considerably more 4AD content, much of the time. You caught
us at a bad moment. Which brings up:

>P.S. What does my not being on the list for very long have to do with
>anything you fucking snobs!!!


Because it's really rude to walk into a gathering of people and
immediately start complaining that they're talking about the wrong
things. If you've been in the conversation for a while, seen how it
changes from week to week, and made yourself known as someone with
interesting opinions and ideas, then you have some respect in the group
and your urgings to change topics carry more weight. Please respect the
fact that there are many of us here who've been on the list, and taking
an active role, for up to four or five years, and we're pretty happy with
how it's going. (That doesn't make us better people, it just means we've
put a lot of time and effort into this list over the years...)
  And as always in any Net discussion, if you think topic X isn't getting
enough discussion, then go ahead and talk about it yourself. Complaining
that people aren't talking about it enough is lame. This is not network
television, we're building this ourselves and you're a part now, so pitch in.


--Jens Alfke
  jens@inow.com

Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:13:56 -0800
From: Heffalump (n9344881@HONEYDEW.CC.WWU.EDU)
Subject: [misc] CDs which are being sold by me.


Due to the ever-present risk of being flamed, I'm not going to post my
list on the net.  If you want it, email me & I'll send it right back to
you... it includes some swervedriver, mercury rev, some of those Japanese
noise-ish bands I've been trying to get rid of for god knows how long...
a this mortal coil promo, swell, medicine... you get the picture.  Also
(still) for sale is my Lush promo flexi w/ 'rupert the bear'.  's not on
the list, but email me anyway if you wanna talk about it.

How much is an autographed vinyl copy of Cranes' 'Forever' (with the
bonus 12") worth?

Thanks,
Mike

                            n9344881@cc.wwu.edu
  "He who clearly apprehends the scheme of existence does not rejoice over
 life, nor repine at death; for he knows that external limits are not final."

Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 13:43:09 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: suddenly, tammy!


I can recommend them also.  They opened for The Wolfgang Press a
short time back.  Almost as good as TWP.  Worth the 7$, or so just
by themselves.  Real nice people, too.  Wound up buying their T-shirt
and getting it autographed.  They're from Lancaster, PA, BTW.

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:11:47 +1300
From: Robin Fargher (robinf@DEV.WHOLESALE.NBNZ.CO.NZ)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveer


>
>>> Caroline (no major label/distrubution affiliation to my knowledge).  Does
>>> anyone know of anyother 'worthy' bands on Caroline?
>>
>>       yes. bark psychosis.  subtle, dark, lovely.
>
>To bicker mildly, Bark Psychosis are on 3rd Stone, a small British indie
>label. Their album "Hex" was released on Caroline in the US. (I think
>it's been pointed out already that Virgin distributes Caroline, although
>I don't think they own them.)
>  Caroline did _not_ release Bark Psychosis' album "Independency" (a
>compilation of their first three EPs), which is at least as wonderful as
>"Hex" and goes in some very different directions, including some
>near-folk and some near-techno.
>  No real news. This post was really just an excuse to mention Bark
>Psychosis again in the hopes that it might induce someone else to go buy
>something by them.
>
>--Jens Alfke
>  jens@inow.com

Another token Bark Psychosis post! Which EPs make up Independency? Is it
Scum + Manman + 1 other? Just curious, cos there's also some early EPs
(All Different Things & Nothing Feels) on anoither small UK indie called
Cheree. I'd hate to have missed something.

Trainspottingly yours
Robin


Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:53:51 -0500
From: susan@ACS.BU.EDU
Subject: u-ziq (was: Skylab)

              at Nov 12, 95 03:28:08 pm

> skylab are amazing.  they have some other stuff out in the uk but the release
> here is mighty good....i think it's called #1.  you should also check out
> "u-ziq"  he remixed an auteus album and i was really good (i don't even like
> the auteurs that much).  he also has some other releases in the uk but the
> u-ziq vs the auteurs album is really good and so is his new one.

I agree that 'u-ziq vs. the auteurs' sounds nothing like the auteurs, but i
also admit to knowing nothing about the auteurs nor wanting to. i think he just
sampled them, but it's an amazing album, which i would probably file somewhere
near disco inferno for his ability to take samples and construct songs out of
them. not as 'weird' i guess, in terms of samples. no camera shutters or
schoolchildren. closer to "ambient" but not background music. other, probably
better, reference points might be insides' clearskin, laika or especially
beaumont hannant. i find it really difficult to make comparisons in electronic
music, where an entire song can be dependent on a sample or particular sound.
there can be no reference points, the same way there are in rock where a
guitar (unless you're seefeel) almost always sounds like a guitar.

but since i brought up beaumont hannant, i want to reinforce the point that he
is amazing. the only album i've heard is 'sculptured' which features lida
husik on a few tracks, and is probably the best stuff she's been involved with
since 'your bag'. and for all my blather about a lack of reference points,
there are comparisons to be made between u-ziq and beaumont hannant, at least
on these particular albums. they both use similar shuffly beats that remind me
a teeny bit of the magnetic fields, and both structure their bleeps and whirrs
into songs, or at least come closer than most.

does anyone have a beaumont hannant discography? please email as the natives
are getting restless.


     -susan

Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:17:55 -0700
From: "E. L. Cable" (ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA)
Subject: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter


Once again I come to you, the list, for help on a project I am working on
for SEX FM to be broadcast this Thursday.  I am gathering first kiss
stories and I need some samples of the word "kiss" to put in between the
voices.  Of course, now that I am in need of these I am drawing blanks
(aside from the obvious Prince/Tom Jones).  Can you think of any song
that clearly has "kiss" in the lyric?  As much information as possible
please.

Thanks once again.


X  Elaun L. Cable        x  Rm. 127 MacEwan Hall   x "My life suits    X
X  Spoken Word Director  x  University of Calgary  x  me very well..." X
X  CJSW 90.9 fm          x  Calgary, AB            x                   X
X                        x  T2N 4N1                x                   X
X      ecable@acs.ucalgary.ca    /    cable@freenet.calgary.ab.ca      X


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 02:15:20 -0500
From: Srilank@AOL.COM
Subject: not so kranky~


>  In anycase, let's all
>take a nap and not be so cranky!
>
>toodles,
>sung

This reminds me, those of you who have heard a majority of or all of Kranky's
releases could you either summarize or give a 'heirarchy of kranky' for
holiday shopping?  I've purchased recently Bowery Electric as well as
Disolve, and am curious about the other half dozen releases.


Jason

srilank@aol.com


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 00:04:20 -0800
From: snowangel k-j (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: 4-ad list or not?


> You sound like you think they are all going downhill! Especially when
> measured up against the sad state of most thislisty.

  oh, don't YOU start with me on this list...semantics...i'm not arguing
  about what i meant and what you took it to mean...it doesn't matter...

> Cheer up, dammit!

  perhaps someday...

  k

  ..too tired to write about anything, including hnia..


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 01:23:53 -0800
From: Ryan (ryan@LEONARDO.NET)
Subject: Slowdive/Mojave:new topic?


I agree with Kelli, let's talk about music (for a change!)

I want to know if I am the only freak out there that absolutely loved
Slowdive's Pygmalion, and now also loves Mojave 3 'Ask me...'  The styles
of the two albums are very different, but something very lovely is
happening on both. I was a bit skeptical when I heard about their change of
direction, and I thought I would NOT like Mojave, but....damn it's so good.
I'm gald I plunked down the extra import cash for both of these.

Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:23:18 PST
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: 100% 4AD Content


4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD
4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD 4AD  ------------------> CREATION

Damn, I lied......
Chris


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:42:54 GMT
From: AKIRA (dicnnghm@TCD.IE)
Subject: server problems


I apologise in advance for posting my technical difficulties here but...

A few weeks ago I joined 4ad-l specifing my user name as dicnnghm@alf2.tcd.ie
                                                                  ^^^^
However when the list server started sending me the mail it didn't specify
my server, i.e.alf2, but just ignored it.
The result of this was that all mail was sent to my other (VAX) account by
way of default.Problem is I can hardley use my VAX account much less
operate it's mail server so I haven't been able to unsubscribe and now have
some 500 mailings in my mail buffer.
Basically what I want to know is is there a way to change my address to specify
my server (I don't have privledge to change my address proper).
Alternatively how do I unsubscribe to the list.
Cheers,
AKIRA

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:20:29 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: 4-ad list or not?

              meek" at Nov 12, 95 04:50:28 pm

einexile the meek  wrote:
>
> Can't one go indepth into arguing that they are shit? I wouldn't
> personally do do, but it's been done. I think the problem is that there
> is a certain degree of unanimity on these issues. Everyone hates Scheer,
> everyone loves Mojave, no one really ceels passionately either way about
> Liquourice or The Amps, and any arguments that do pop up are cordonned
> off with police tape by the 4ad-l hall monitors.

Actually I think Scheer are potentially quite good if they just dump
their guitarist.  They were featured in the Independent on Sunday this
week - two page article on bands struggling round the London gig circuit
playing to audiences in single figures, and Scheer were honoured with a
few hundred words and a photo.  Not much about the music (4AD were
mentioned, though) - it was more about how they are having to start
again from scratch on this side of the Irish sea.

And w.r.t. the Amps, "Bragging Party" is as good as anything Kim Deal
has ever done - I feel passionately about that song, even if the rest of
the album is patchy.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // nja@le.ac.uk // 13/11/95
On my walkman this morning : Th'Faith Healers
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:54:49 GMT
From: "R.E. BAGLEY" (HIS5REB@ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: scheer


> I don't believe that there ever was a 4AD "aesthetic".
> I don't think Ivo sat down in 1980 and said, "I want to produce a bunch of
> bands with this type of sound."  There has always been a lot of diversity in
> the label, but people insist on defining the label's style by some of their
> more popular bands.

Weren't MARRS on the 4AD label......???????

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 03:58:39 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveer


Aren't Lida Husik and The Legendary Pink Dots also on Caroline? I know
that Joyride and The Maria Dimension were.

Where is Kurt? :(


e

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 07:19:11 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re. Re. Re - Bollocks, no Mark K.


>Re. Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seeveer

>Aren't Lida Husik and The Legendary Pink Dots also on Caroline? I know
>that Joyride and The Maria Dimension were.
>
>Where is Kurt? :(
>
>
>e


This is the kind of shit subject heading that is pissing everyone else off.
Is it too much trouble to change the subject heading when replying to a
certain posting? - I don't see any Mark K. info in this message... You lazy
bastard.

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 03:52:40 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: blessed are the netpolitzei


On Sun, 12 Nov 1995, Steven Venn wrote:

> Hey Herr Einexile:
>
> Relax man, the guy will probably look into Projekt now so you won that
> battle, but
> really insulting someone is not that cool. As for your darkwave comment
> that just
> makes you look like a music snob not a guy trying to educate and enrich people
s
> lives with Projekt and related labels.

Are you confusing me with Michael? He's the one who called Ryan an idiot
over the darkwave thing and told him to go look at some Projekt CDs. All
I said was that he was being mean. I even gave him the benefit of the
doubt that he was screwing around.

> So don't forget, others might not
> know as much as you but they also expect you to help them to know more and
> that is
> a good thing, you don't own 4AD or Projekt, you can't covet it like your
> own toy.

I don't know anyone on this list who behaves like what you are saying.
Everyone involved with this argument has made their share of honest and
kind attempts at turning others onto the music that they like.

> but the only idiocy I see is in name-calling and being a poseur.

In all fairness to Michael, Ryan had no business putting on his
"Darkwave? What do you mean?" face and it makes sense that Michael was
confused. Also, Ryan was after all in the process of flaming me for a
shot I took in PARODY at someone who made a serious and uncalled for
insult towards mesocyclone. Maybe I am wrong and I don't want to sound
like I'm writing anyone off because I'm not, but it seems to me that a
lot of people are entering into arguments halfway through without knowing
their history, and that still more people, yourself included, aren't
checking to see who wrote what before taking issue with what's said.

> Keep the group clean? Now how did you become the person to decide who does
> and who doesn't get into this group.

Here it is me who who have either misunderstood or misrepresented. I said
CLEAN not CLEANSED. I have no desire to see anyone leave this group. What
I meant by clean was in the sense of netpolicing--the way cz and kj for
instance have been saying chill with the insults, and in fact what I was
saying to blubel which Ryan found so offensive. I think this is perfectly
legit. No one's ordering anyone around but it is perfectly sound to
attack someone's position or attitude when that person is out of line.
That is after all what you are meaning to do here, right? That's all I
meant by keeping the list 'clean'.

> >What really bothers me about *your* message is that it is representative
> >of a big, ugly cultural trend that shows its face here more and more and
> >which Ryan is also guilty of, which is this new love everyone has for
> >stepping into other people's fights and shooshing them and setting
> >guidelines and crying STOP STOP STOP THE HATE!
> >Why do you need to do this?
>
> Why do we need to do this? ha ha that's great, isn't there enough Hate already
> on the net.

There isn't enough hatred on the net for people who step into arguments
in which they are NOT involved, and further, about which they actually
have NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER, and tell everyone to shut up.

>  The worst is you don't know the guy and that is the root of the
> racism
> problem in the world right there, the not knowing and the ignorance

I think there is a bigger problem with assuming ignorance from anyone
with whom you disagree. "You don't see the light? Oh, you must need to be
EDUCATED!"


 e


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:56:33 -0500
From: TIM CONLON (U590@SYSM.ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU)
Subject: 4AD Content/Einexile


  I've been on the list for 3-4 years.  If I only wanted to know about
4AD artists, I would have quit long ago.  But there is so much quality
music that I know nothing about.  I keep a running list of music I want
to hear and every name on that list has come from someone's post on
this newsgroup.

  To all the new people bithin' about Einexile...I have never, never
deleted any of his posts without first reading them.  He is
entertaining, a pleasure to read and knows what he's talking about.
He is just one of many assorted personalities on this list that I look
forward to hearing from.

   This list is not mine, yours or Einexile's, but I have been here
long enough to know what to expect...and for the most part, I like it
the way it is.


TIM CONLON
U590@sysm.acs.Virginia.EDU


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:22:39 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Not 4AD - Re. Kiss me Kate


Kissed Out Red Floatboat - Cocteau Twins.
A Girl Like You (Born to be Kissed) - The Wolfgang Press (4th track BAD 2006CD)

Do you want songs with kissing lyrics too? Sorry if it was in your posting
I deleted it with all the other crap accidentally.

Andie

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:42:54 -0500
From: Timothy Kowalsky (gothicpoet@TORCHLIGHT.COM)
Subject: Akropolis Arts -- Submissions Wanted


Akropolis Arts Magazine is an electronic magazine to be published
monthly on the World Wide Web beginning Christmas, 1995.  The magazine
will focus on the visual, performing, and written arts.
The first issue will focus on theatre, community and internet, but will
also include features and columns on literature, film, music, and the
visual arts.

We are currently seeking submissions of ideas for features and columns
in all of the above areas, and items of short fiction, poetry,
photography, art, computer-generated graphic novels, reviews of music
and performing arts events, and information and advice for artists
involved in the theatre and visual arts, community or professional.

Items of interest to readers who enjoy music of a gothic, or
experimental nature are of especial interest.

For information on submissions, contact the editor at:
gothicpoet@iquest.net

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:33:48 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU) scan 4ad-l soon ****************************************************************************** soon@unm.edu * MBV, Medicine, Seefeel * A.I.D.S. -> We are all Will Coucheron-Aamot * lovesliescrushing * infected because we Delta Lambda Phi * FSA, shiFt, Slowdive * are all affected. ******************************************************************************

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:14:13 -0800
From: "Scott, Mari & Brian" (sten@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Kooler V-J


Who do think is the all-time best V.J.?:

Dave Kendal
-or-
Matt Pinfield

One other thing, I can't believe other people like Bow Wow Wow too, I'm
not alone! oh.....to keep this 4-ad related...uh.... Lush!


                            Brian


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:51:09 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Re: shiFt!


  In all my ranting and raving about how wonderful shiFt is, I forgot to
mention one thing: Marc is on this list.  So if you're curious about
shiFt and/or ordering the cd, you can get in touch with him at
moster@mail.texas.edu.  He's a really nice guy and I'm sure he'll be
happy to answer any questions you might have!


******************************************************************************
soon@unm.edu         * MBV, Medicine, Seefeel * A.I.D.S. -> We are all
Will Coucheron-Aamot *   lovesliescrushing    *    infected because we
Delta Lambda Phi     * FSA, shiFt, Slowdive   *    are all affected.
******************************************************************************

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:49:35 -0600
From: Holly Emmer (hemmer@RRGROUP.COM)
Subject: Re: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter


------ =_NextPart_000_01BAB1A4.F6BC04E0

Kiss Me, KM, KM from the Cure.

----------
From: E. L. Cable[SMTP:ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA]
Subject: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter


Once again I come to you, the list, for help on a project I am working on
for SEX FM to be broadcast this Thursday.  I am gathering first kiss
stories and I need some samples of the word "kiss" to put in between the
voices.  Of course, now that I am in need of these I am drawing blanks
(aside from the obvious Prince/Tom Jones).  Can you think of any song
that clearly has "kiss" in the lyric?  As much information as possible
please.

Thanks once again.


X  Elaun L. Cable        x  Rm. 127 MacEwan Hall   x "My life suits    X
X  Spoken Word Director  x  University of Calgary  x  me very well..." X
X  CJSW 90.9 fm          x  Calgary, AB            x                   X
X                        x  T2N 4N1                x                   X
X      ecable@acs.ucalgary.ca    /    cable@freenet.calgary.ab.ca      X


------ =_NextPart_000_01BAB1A4.F6BC04E0

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BAB1A4.F6BC04E0--

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:18:39 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Re: Kooler V-J


  Who's the all time best vj?  A.J. Hammer on VH-1!  How could you not
like someone that cute?
  But if it isn't based on looks, I'd vote for Kennedy.


******************************************************************************
soon@unm.edu         * MBV, Medicine, Seefeel * A.I.D.S. -> We are all
Will Coucheron-Aamot *   lovesliescrushing    *    infected because we
Delta Lambda Phi     * FSA, shiFt, Slowdive   *    are all affected.
******************************************************************************


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:36:21 -0800
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: Re: scheer


>> I don't believe that there ever was a 4AD "aesthetic".
>> I don't think Ivo sat down in 1980 and said, "I want to produce a bunch of
>> bands with this type of sound."  There has always been a lot of diversity in
>> the label, but people insist on defining the label's style by some of their
>> more popular bands.
>
>Weren't MARRS on the 4AD label......???????

Yes, but no one acknowledged them as such.  They didn't sound like 4AD, so
_obviously_ they weren't on 4AD.

Jake

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:27:18 -0600
From: Jon Corbett Wetzel (jcw0003@JOVE.ACS.UNT.EDU)
Subject: Re: not so kranky~


On Mon, 13 Nov 1995 Srilank@AOL.COM wrote:

> This reminds me, those of you who have heard a majority of or all of Kranky's
> releases could you either summarize or give a 'heirarchy of kranky' for
> holiday shopping?  I've purchased recently Bowery Electric as well as
> Disolve, and am curious about the other half dozen releases.
>
Labradford and JEssamine are 2 great Kranky bands......


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:04:00 -0800
From: tired of the flames (PLOCKE@US.ORACLE.COM)
Subject: who y'gonna call...hatebusters


e wrote:

> What really bothers me about *your* message...
>  ... shooshing
> them and setting guidelines and crying STOP STOP STOP THE
> HATE! Why do you need to do this?

i honestly don't care who you or anyone else on the list
hates or likes.  hate whoever you like.  i'm not going to
try to stop you.

i _do_ care that this list, which has been
a source of much valuable information in the years i have
been on it, has degenerated into a seemingly non-stop
petty feuding and childish insults.  is this what the
"electronic revolution" has brought us -- the freedom and
anonymity to be utterly obnoxious?

i wouldn't be surprised to find out that both new and old
subscribers -- people who could contribute to useful and
informative discussions here -- are abandoning this list.
i find that unfortunate.

i know this morass certainly won't end with this note --
someone (or, more likely, a whole mess of someones) is
going to have to have the last word.  i just hope the last
word comes soon and we can get back to substantive
discussions about music.

--phil
(proud, corporate internet account user by day,
dumb AOL'er by night)

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 08:12:36 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@netcom.com)
Subject: Mark K dead in tragic snuff film accident!


On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Andrew Massey trolled:

> >Re. Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seeveer

> This is the kind of shit subject heading that is pissing everyone else off.
> Is it too much trouble to change the subject heading when replying to a
> certain posting? - I don't see any Mark K. info in this message... You lazy
> bastard.

You poor child. Why don't you have a suck on my little cock? It doesn't
matter if there's any Mark K info in any message and this *was* after all
a discussion about how no one knows exactly who the fuck is on Caroline.
Maybe Mark K is on Caroline? Maybe Mark K has joined the Legendary Pink
Dots? (Someone sure as hell needs to.) Better run out and check right
away! You might miss out on the hard rock version of "Summer Dress".

These are the kind of ridiculous, petty complaints, the kind of
loudmouthed whining that are, come to think of it, really starting to
make this list look like a big joke. I apologize on behalf of everyone on
this list to all who are embarrassed by it.

Let's hear some music. I have out of laziness broken with my normal
tradition of posting relevant information about music in these lovely
flame pieces, so I'd better get back on that...

Chris Meloche - Recurring Dreams of the Urban Myth
--------------------------------------------------
A new favorite Fax release which is somewhat unique in its lack of
annoyances. It is quite consistent through and through, uninterrupted by
long blobs of tweak noise or telephone calls, samples of city streets
with no music laid over it, beat poetry...there seems to have been quite
a lot of this stuff from Fax over the last few weeks or months. I don't
know how old this record it; I still have no idea how to decipher Fax's
release numbering system, but it is relatively new and very refreshing
especially after suffering through Chris Meloche's "Wireless" which is
nothing but radio noise for 70 minutes. Here though is one of many
reasons Fax is probably my favorite record label. The album goes on and
on, never developing into much intensity but neither seeming to repeat
itself. Great music to sleep to--actually quite scary but then I am one
who likes dozing to Lustmord and Seefeel. What you have here is something
that repeats over such long spans of time that one doesn't notice, or by
the time one does, it begins to vary. Meanwhile you have a whole lot of
nice ambience which changes over time. In the end what does the trick is
the very nice, pretty music that makes up the drones and whines--
definitely more on the side of Eno's Neroli or Ambient 4 than on the side
of much of any ambient discussed on this list, but you know, some of you
people could really use some Neroli, the way things are going. :)

In other news, while I am somewhat a fan of mu-ziq, I find mu-ziq vs the
Auteurs to be rather annoying and derivative. Admittedly some of this is
just that it is too harsh for me but I do think it is honestly a little
obnoxious. After saying this much, maybe I will sound craxy recommending
Salsa & Mesquite and Jake Slazenger Makes a Racket, but they are super
good albums, very weird and hip and varied. Good mu-ziq is like a really
badass episode of Fat Albert or something.

When making your purchases, please take into account that the reviewer
can just barely stand Beaumont Hannant..though his work with CAROLINE
RECORDING ARTIST Lida Husik is pretty dope.

Up and coming, reviews of the new Current 93 ep, Michael Gira's ass
kicking _Drainland_, an old Depeche Mode album I like, and more Fax...
plus with any luck today brings me about a cubic foot of new Warp
stuff...


stereolab are crap,

 einexile


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:46:21 -0800
From: Candice A Mack (mackc@WATNXT06.UCR.EDU)
Subject: Re: the wrong body shop cd


i've been having the same problem regarding those durned body shop cds.
the only ones they have in riverside are ones supporting domestic
violence awareness, with no 4ad artists to be found on it... :(

anyone know where to get them in between Riverside and LA?

--candice


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:40:51 -0600
From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM)
Subject: Martin agrees with e shocker!


On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, einexile the meek wrote:

> These are the kind of ridiculous, petty complaints, the kind of
> loudmouthed whining that are, come to think of it, really starting to
> make this list look like a big joke. I apologize on behalf of everyone on
> this list to all who are embarrassed by it.

I think you're rising to the bait a little too easily. This is what, the
fifth person you've carpet-flamed in the last four days? Just ignore 'em,
man. I'm not embarrassed by it, but this list does seem to be turning
into alt.4ad.flamewar.

> stereolab are crap,

Truer words were never spoken.

Martin

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:49:30 -0600
From: "you'll poke your eye out" (joroses@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU)
Subject: v-j's


a friend of mine was standing 2 people away from dave kendall at a club in
nyc one night and watched him take out a cig and light up. a couple mins
later she went over to him and asked to bum one (she *was* out) and he said
in full-on american accent 'i don't have any.' blech. i hate people who
don't believe in cigarette karma.

as for vj's i have only two words for you:

ANDREW DADDO.

.j.

---
joroses@mail.utexas.edu
andover '94
-
i shoulda had a v8.


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:53:30 CST
From: "Kent J. Vanderwaal" (kjv@MTI.CDC.COM)
Subject: Re: kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter

roup3>; from "Holly Emmer" at Nov 13,
              95 8:49 am

> Kiss Me, KM, KM from the Cure.
>
> ----------
> From:   E. L. Cable[SMTP:ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA]
> Sent:   Monday, November 13, 1995 12:17 AM
> To:     Multiple recipients of list 4AD-L
> Subject:        kiss me kate - or anyone for that matter
>
> Once again I come to you, the list, for help on a project I am working on
> for SEX FM to be broadcast this Thursday.  I am gathering first kiss
> stories and I need some samples of the word "kiss" to put in between the
> voices.  Of course, now that I am in need of these I am drawing blanks
> (aside from the obvious Prince/Tom Jones).  Can you think of any song
> that clearly has "kiss" in the lyric?  As much information as possible
> please.
>
> Thanks once again.

You're kidding?  There's bazillions of songs with kiss in the lyrics.

"where'd you learn to kiss that way"
                        the Field Mice "So Said Kay"
                        off Sarah compilation "Glass Arcade"

"a kiss and ran away"
                        the Orchids "Carol Anne"
                        off Epicurean, a soundtrack

"your kiss is on my list of the best things in life"
                        Hall and Oates

"let's kiss and make up, let's you and I kiss and make up"
                        St. Etienne "Kiss and Makeup" (a Field Mice song)
                        off debut "Fox Base Alpha"

"namida no kiss mo ichido"
                        Southern All Stars "Namida no Kiss"

"she had kisses sweeter than wine"
                        some 50's idol singer (Bobby Darin?)

"now I know that the perfect kiss is the kiss of death"
                        New Order "Perfect Kiss" or "Kiss of Death"
                        off "Technique"

"kiss him on the cheek and tell him where to go"
                        Heavenly "C is the Heavenly Option"
                        off "Le Heavenly De Jardin"

now *I'm* drawing blanks...



kent
kjv@mti.cdc.com

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:55:57 CST
From: thad.engeling@CCQM.NATINST.COM
Subject: Re[2]: Caroline Records / LPD


> Aren't Lida Husik and The Legendary Pink Dots also on Caroline? I know
> that Joyride and The Maria Dimension were.

A large portion of the Legendary Pink Dots catalog is
ditributed indirectly by Caroline through Play It Again Sam.

BTW, if anyone has a chance to catch the Dots live on the
remaining part of their tour, do it. They are amazing.
I saw them in Houston and Austin, and it was worth the drive.

later on,
Thad
"This isn't death, this is just a textural event"

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:59:33 -0500
From: Rodney Rodriguez (ItsonlyRod@AOL.COM)
Subject: Yet another 4-ad sampler!


Had quite an interesting weekend.  It seems that rockway records got a ton of
used 7" singles recently & I just had to go through ALL of them!  I was quite
surprised to find a new 4-ad sampler.  I had seen it once before, but I
didn't know what it was.  It was at the Tarnation in-store at no life few
months ago.  I saw a few people at the counter opening a box of 7" singles
from across the room.  Well, being the chicken little that I am, I didn't
investigate further and didn't think any more of it.  Oh well, I should have
know.  Anyway, here's all the details on it:

It's called "Yeah, but... : a selection of 4ad artists; fall 1995" catalog #
pro-s-7630


not sure if these are exclusive to this 7" or not. and I have no idea on its
availability (but I got it, so there should be some out
there.......somewhere)

the layout is quite similar to the joe friday 7" as well as the last few CD
samplers as well.  Its got a green-ish cover with a blue-ish
what-the-hell-is-that in the center.  The back cover is black with a darker
blue what-the-hell-is-that and the good ol' grid layout.

as for what it sounds like, I dunno, I haven't been able to hear it yet.  I
spent too much time listening to madredeus. I haven't been moved this way by
a recording since mojave, but prior to that, I really can't remember.  Two
classical guitars with an angelic voice singing in Portuguese.  The effect is
kinda like Segovia playing with DCD.  Simply beautiful.

also of 4ad interest:  rockway still has the joe friday 7", the insides /
glee club promo 7" as well as that pale saints / brass band 7"  (I picked up
the lush "rupert the bear" flexi & an old In Camera 7" amongst others) They
also have tons of Sarah & Slumberland singles as well as a few of those
slowdive/ride split tour singles.  It's all in unsorted bins in the back
counter and they're going for $5ea (or 10 for $40)  If you've got time to
kill, it's worth a look.

later,
Rodney, who is still quite surprised that no-one had mentioned this before.
 (eghad! scooped by an unconnected, lowly aol'er.......what is this world
coming to?)

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:55:11 -0500
From: athol-brose (cinnamon@ONE.NET)
Subject: Re: v-j's

              eye out" at Nov 13, 95 02:49:30 pm

> as for vj's i have only two words for you:
> ANDREW DADDO.

No way. Mark Thompson.

--

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:51:55 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveer


Robin writes:
>Another token Bark Psychosis post! Which EPs make up Independency? Is it
>Scum + Manman + 1 other? Just curious, cos there's also some early EPs
>(All Different Things & Nothing Feels) on anoither small UK indie called
>Cheree. I'd hate to have missed something.

Here's the track listing for "Independency":

I Know                 [???]
Nothing Feels
All Different Things
By Blow

Manman                 ["Manman" EP]
Blood Rush
Tooled Up

Scum                   ["Scum" EP]

The CD booklet does explain where the tracks come from, but the box is at
home so I can't refer to it right now.

The first three tracks are rather laid-back and almost folky, "By Blow"
is quite noisy, the "Manman" EP tracks vary between near-techno and the
sound of "Hex", and "Scum" sounds much like "Hex" (and is about 20
minutes long!)

____________
Jens Alfke |__________________      He was once a little round ball of cells
            jens@mooseyard.com   Now he makes loud noises & sometimes smells

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:45:22 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Frequent questions [Re: Re: Are these taking the piss?


Sharklessgirl wrote:
>people join lists everyday, and invariabley they will ask the questions
>that we dare to ask when we first joined.  so chill and be tade more
>understanding cause you too were in their shows...

I think the flamage was more because the answers to those questions had
been posted just a day or two before.

In general, a better thing to do when you get pissed off about recurring
questions is to write up an answer and mail it to me for inclusion in the
FAQ. Or even if you don't think you're the right authority to answer,
just tell me what the question should be and I'll answer it or find
someone else to.

That's what the FAQ is for, after all. (And apologies for not having kept
it up to date in the last few months. I've got a little baby boy who
takes up most of my time when I'm at home...)

____________
Jens Alfke |__________________      He was once a little round ball of cells
            jens@mooseyard.com   Now he makes loud noises & sometimes smells

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:13:47 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Kooler V-J


Kennedy is just plain evil.  I don't understand her, I don't know
what she's all about, and I honestly don't care. I hate Kennedy.

As for the 120 Minutes guys:

Dave Kendall:  Clearly the best VJ MTV ever placed in that job. He
               was much more cutting-edge and much more knowledgeable
               about music outside the realm of PearlJamNirvanaHole
               SoundgardenFlamingLipsRedHot  ChiliPeppers and all the
               rest of that mainstream boring uneventful alternacrap.
               His interviews often had actual content and thought
               put into them. I've been told that he was fired or
               quit because he wasn't willing to toe the chart-oriented
               line that MTV wanted to enforce or he wanted more control
               over the show's content and input and was denied.

Lewis Largent:  HELLO?!  What were they thinking?  So he is marginally
                attractive in a grunge sort of way and so went well
                with that "SPIN Magazine's Alternaband of the month"
                motif that MTV strives for, but he was an IDIOT! Nice
                guy, but a DORK!  I mean, he was doing the heavy metal
                show prior to moving to 120...whatever.  Did anyone
                else applaud when Robin Guthrie basically made Mr. Largent
                look like a total fool in his interview/guest appearance
                in 1993?  I still wince when I see that.

This Penfield Fellow:  Uncle Fester....but he's a very sincere guy, I must
                       give him credit where credit is due, AND he knows
                       a lot about music.  The thing about him that
                       bothers me is that he tries too hard to be your
                       friend (and the musician's good buddy) rather than
                       a telejournalist/host, which is his job.  He's just
                       too patronizing.  I don't know if I could handle it
                       being one of his guests....But his sincere enthusiasm
                       and knowledge make him at least better than Kennedy,
                       who just annoys every cell in my body.


MTV is the biggest example of the herd mentality in popular and so-called
alternative music.  The perfect companion to Rolling Stone and Spin.  I
thirst for a real outlet for music video and journalism that honestly
makes an effort to be sincere and groundbreaking in its content and
programming, as well as diverse.  I don't mind seeing a HOLE video or
a video by some stupid band called "Ruth Ruth" or "Toadies", as long as
its mixed in with stuff that is NOTHING like that, by bands that have
had a much farther-reaching effect and influence on independent and
'alternative' music.   I guess I can keep dreaming...

To MTV's credit:  Aeon Flux and the occasionally outstanding Unplugged
                  or Rockumentary.


Sorry I've run on like this...I guess I sort of found a tangent, there...


Mike
iceblink@delphi.com


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:36:30 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: About TAD and XAD things...


On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, Frank Brinkhuis wrote:

> Oct 23 --- wrote:
>
Please don't refer to me using that name I once used.  Please?

thanks

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:37:24 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Singing Lessons?


On Sat, 11 Nov 1995 SortSol@AOL.COM wrote:

>
> So now you have to be classically trained operatic singer to be in a pop
> group.
>


Ummm... ask U2, erm, I mean, The Passengers that one.

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:34:34 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: dorky bands some people like


>         How much (or little) Red House Painters have you listened to, you
> lone anti-RHP crusader, you?
>


Ummm... everything they've ever released on 4AD.  I'm not necessarily an
"anti-RHP crusader", as you put it.  I _do_ like some of their work...
but I think they are pretty darn mediocre.  Especially in comparison to
Lush, who, by the way, seem to be putting out the best 4AD material for
1996, according to what I've heard, although, admittedly I haven't heard
any of their new stuff yet.  I still stand firm, Mark K. can not sing
very well.

the end.

luv,

Strick9


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:58:29 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: please buy my cds and vinyl


sorry for the crossposting. I just wanted to alert y'all to my
moving-gotta-get-rid-of-everything sale. There is a lot of crap
but some real good stuff and it's all for sale for as much or
as little as I can get for it.

The list is pretty big so I'm not going to flood everyone's mailbox
with it but you can email me if you're interested (please specify
cds, vinyl or both). It's also posted to alt.music.alternative,
rec.music.marketplace.cd and rec.music.marketplace.vinyl.

all proceeds go to my gigging in London in the spring so please
take pity on this poor soul currently stuck in the middle of nowhere
where there hasn't been a good gig for months...thanks! :-)
-----
wendy

"No one owns life but anyone who can pick up a frying pan owns death"
                                               --William S. Burroughs

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:13:06 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: CDs for sale...


cocteau twins                       singles box set(10 cd's)
         $45           10-Nov-1995 rlantzer@snu.edu

Curve                               Fait Accomli (Maxi)
         $6.00 ppd     12-Nov-1995 tetsuo@wam.umd.edu

Curve                               Horror Head (Maxi)
         $5.50 ppd     12-Nov-1995 tetsuo@wam.umd.edu

Danielle Dax                        Jesus Egg That Wept (import)
         $10           13-Nov-1995 hark@u.washington.edu

Hersh, Kristin           CD         Strings [UK]
         $4            10-Nov-1995 emorris@pacifier.com

Huggy Bear                          Main Squeeze (import CD5)
         $7            13-Nov-1995 hark@u.washington.edu

Huggy Bear                          Weaponry Listens to Love
         $8            13-Nov-1995 hark@u.washington.edu

Medicine                 CD         Candy Candy [promo -2]
         $2            10-Nov-1995 emorris@pacifier.com

Medicine                 CD         Never Click [promo -1]
         $2            10-Nov-1995 emorris@pacifier.com

Stereolab                CD         Refried Ectoplasm Vol. 2
         $12           10-Nov-1995 emorris@pacifier.com

Ultra Vivid Scene                   joy 1967-1990
         $8(ppd)       07-Nov-1995 ofross@emory.edu

Various                             Caroline Spring 1994
         $4(ppd)       07-Nov-1995 ofross@emory.edu

Various                             No Balls 4*A*D Sampler
         $4(ppd)       07-Nov-1995 ofross@emory.edu


is the person selling it; not me.  As in: "don't send mail to Marvyn Hortman
because he doesn't have anything to do with these CDs.  He's just taking the
best of the Used CD Monday update and bringing the savings to you."


marvynHortman                 ftp://sharedcast.hccs.cc.tx.us

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:56:29 -0800
From: nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU
Subject: whither 4ad list?


yeah, I remember when we used to talk about music...
ah, those were the days....

I think in the past two days, finally some constructive
comments were made about what we need to do. I'm thinking
in particular about posts from k-j, phil, and jens
who seem to have hit the nail on the head. I'd just like to
echo what they said (as I was writing this, it became
sort of a guide to posting. Who am I, you might ask,
to decide what guidelines are set? Just a concerned
list member, nothing more. I don't run or moderate the
list, so you can take the following to heart or ignore it).

> We need more information/opinion/review content, something
which seems to have gone by the wayside these days.

> We need to quit the personal flaming (or at least carry it
out in private). I don't know about you, but I had not the
least interest in slogging through the Ryan Darkwave event
of the past few days. I'm just as happy as anyone else
to delete messags (I've gotten REALLY GOOD at it lately),
but am I alone in thinking that a lot of junk like this
floating around degrades the integrity of the list and
probably annoys newcomers?

> One line messages like "yeah, I agree" or "Lush don't
suck, so there!" have to stop. Tell us WHY you agree;
tell us WHY Lush don't suck! Put some at least some
fairly well-thought-out criticism in your messages,
rather than just meaningless statements.

> No auction bids or updates to the entire list. Thankfully that hasn't
occurred again in the past few weeks, or I think this list
would have self-destructed!

> Use included copies of previous messages sparingly. We all
saw the original post, so there is no need to see it again.
If replying to a particular point, just use that line, or
a phrase from the original post.

I hope some of this makes sense.

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:09:57 -0800
From: einexile the meek (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: everyone is wrong about otherness


On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Andrew Massey wrote:

> >Why don't you have a suck on my little cock?
>
> Obviously because it's too small, you pubescent wanker.

I thought maybe. Fair enough.

In other news, I have acquired...that's right...a pizza. hahaha...no, I
got me Otherness. Wheee.

Cocteau Twins - Otherness
-------------------------
And I don't agree with anyone about it. Since it is indeed a mark
Clifford treatment it obviously has a certain flavor to it, but to me,
the disc is chock full of Cocteau Twins. Not a lot of "hip ambient guy vs
washed up indie band" releases are terribly sympathetic to the original
vision of the band in question, and to be fair I haven't heard the
original vision of most of this material, but Mark Clifford seems to have
done something very cool here, which I am tempted to compare best to The
The's recent Hanky Panky album of hank Williams covers, which is that
while tweaking the hell out of the record he has left it intact and
created a reworking that is very faithful to what the band is about.
Listening to this record, I can tell that he loves the Cocteaus, loves
these songs, and with much care went about bringing out what struck him
as particularly nice. And if I'm right, that's why this disc is more
Cocteaux than it is Seefeel. Clifford has not injected this into the dark
and mysterious world of Seefeel but injected little of himself to what
was already there. It's an interesting look at him and at what Disjectia
 might bring out in him. It's also a full blown
and rather good Cocteau Twins ep in its own right.


 einexile the wanker


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:25:00 PST
From: bahman (IZZYW5B@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: 4AD fans


you know,

i have always had the impression as well as the experience that
4AD fans were supportive, relaxed individuals who did not ascribe to
th holier than thou attitude, so prevalent in the *alternative* scene,
if another fan did not know a certain info or did not possess a
certain album. i was wrong. i am subscribing off.

i think alot of people on this list can learn alot from other ones: i.e
bauhaus/love&rockets lists.

How ironic that a list which presupposedly caters to a so-called
"GOTH" following is more tolerant than one that is supposed to
serve a diverse music.

bahman

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:29:05 +0000
From: Jon Kvebaek (ceejok@CEE.HW.AC.UK)
Subject: Non-4AD: Love your enemies


With the recent "debate" on various topics such as aol, seefel, cocteau twins
et.al, I thought I'd share W S Burroughs immortal words on loving your enemies
with you. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make out a couple of words, but
they're not essential to the text anyway. (If anyone knows them, do tell me)
The text is "Love Your Enemies" from the "Dead City Radio" CD (Island records,
442-846 264-2) and goes like this:

Love your enemy. It isn't easy to love an enemy. Because this goes, it
goes against your basic survival instinct. But it can be done, and
turned to an advantage. Let the love squirt out of you like a firehose
(...) Give him the kiss of life. Stick your tongue down his throat and
taste what he's been eating and bless his digestion. Ooze down into
his intestines and help him along with his poo. Let him know that you
revere his rectum as a part of an ineffible whole. Let him understand
that you stand in (...) of his genitals as part of the master
plan. Life in all its rich variety, do not falter. Let your love enter
in onto him and penetrate him with a divine lubricant. Makes KY like
sandpaper. It's the most (...) slimiest, ooziest lubricant there ever
was or shall be amen.

So, think twice before you flame anyone ;-)

Love,

--
Jon Kvebaek 

- Roy, I'm shining this torch into your eyes. Pupil dilation seems more
   evident. Good. Good.
                                    -Irvine Welsh, "Marabou Stork Nightmares"

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:45:19 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU) sign-off 4ad-l soon@argo.unm.edu ****************************************************************************** soon@unm.edu * MBV, Medicine, Seefeel * A.I.D.S. -> We are all Will Coucheron-Aamot * lovesliescrushing * infected because we Delta Lambda Phi * FSA, shiFt, Slowdive * are all affected. ******************************************************************************

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:36:41 -0500
From: Suey (chon@VIRTU.SAR.USF.EDU) i just subscribed, a friend told me that the lyrics to song to the siren were somewhere on this list... anyone have a copy they can send to me? thanks... ;) @!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@ SuJean Chon New College Student Alliance chon@virtu.sar.usf.edu 941-359-4267 Developmental Psychology fax 941-359-4284 Sociology 5700 N. Tamiami Trail, Sarasota FL 34243 @!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:52:35 -0700
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU) sign off 4ad-l soon@argo.unm.edu ****************************************************************************** soon@unm.edu * MBV, Medicine, Seefeel * A.I.D.S. -> We are all Will Coucheron-Aamot * lovesliescrushing * infected because we Delta Lambda Phi * FSA, shiFt, Slowdive * are all affected. ******************************************************************************

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:26:31 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Review: QuickSpace Supersport


Rather than comment eruditely on the many flame wars going on, I'll waste
all of your time with a review -- and of non-4AD stuff at that. Just
delete this now and read the next flame.


QuickSpace Supersport  "SuperPlus" EP  Domino (UK)

This is Tom(?) Cullinan's new band, he formerly the
guitarist/co-songwriter/co-singer of th late and very lamented Faith
Healers. I was glad to hear of new stuff by him and so ordered this EP
from Ear/Rational sight unseen. Let's get the facile comparisons over
with first: Cullinan's clearly been spending his spare time listening to
a lot of Stereolab, and it shows. Which isn't too great a stretch for
him, since Th Faith Healers were also pretty big on repetitive
mantra-like guitar riffs. What's new here is the more low-key
non-effected guitar sound, the waves of bleepy Moog (much more of it than
Stereolab use), and the happy "ba-la-ba" female backing vocals (which it
must be acknowleged that Stereolab nicked from the mighty Juan Garcia
Esquivel, who had mastered the technique back in the early '60s.)
  Facile comparisons aside, this is a nice little EP. You get four
versions of the same song, which despite the comparisons above does still
have its own unmistakable Cullinan imprint on it. It's a nice song, but
the title track, goes on for 14 minutes and does start to wear out its
welcome by the end. Track 2, "Proplus", is a tweaked-out alternate
version with weirder Moog noises, different riffing, and different drum
sounds, which goes on for a breezy 2 1/2 minutes. Track 3, "Scubaplus" is
a dub mix and is for me the highlight of the EP. Underwater synth sounds,
dubstyle bass, echoed drum track. Reminds me very much of the early-80s
dub-inspired new wave sound. Track 4, "Standard 8" is a short-n-snappy
radio-friendly reprise of the basic song with some more female vocals and
extra guitar, all of which starts to remind me of Unrest.
  All in all, cool stuff! It's nice to see at least part of Th Faith
Healers reappearing in a new guise (what's Roxanne up to?? Her singing is
missed.) I hope they have a full album in the works, as listening to one
song gets old after a while.

____________
Jens Alfke |__________________      He was once a little round ball of cells
            jens@mooseyard.com   Now he makes loud noises & sometimes smells

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:51:44 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: the body shop cd


>
>can someone please tell me at which body shop in SF the cd is available?
>
 I was at the Body shop at the 'City Center' in the City (Saturday) and
they said they blew those out quick! Why don't ew Bay Area people list the
B shops we've gone to and post where it ISN'T available so we'll know where
*not* to go. Sounds like a good idea to me. ANy others?

Elvia

(elvia@uclink3.berkeley.edu)

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:35:54 -0800
From: Sharkless girl (uthelene@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Kooler V-J


You wrote:
>
>Who do think is the all-time best V.J.?:
>
>Dave Kendal
>-or-
>Matt Pinfield
>
>One other thing, I can't believe other people like Bow Wow Wow too,
I'm
>not alone! oh.....to keep this 4-ad related...uh.... Lush!
>
>
>                            Brian
>
dave beats matt with his british tongue wrapped around his head!  matt
pinfield is a twit, he ranks right up there is Hi ther this is
I-dal-iz, YUCK.  IMNSHO

and for the 4ad more or less related, does anyone know when th v23
calendar is due out?

euthelene, if you read my posts before, you'd know my name is not a
fuel oil, i was named for Apollo's muse of music so ;p

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:59:09 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Body Shop CD, SAn Francisco


>
>can someone please tell me at which body shop in SF the cd is available?
>
 I was at the Body shop at the 'City Center' in the City (Saturday) and
they said they blew those out quick! Why don't ew Bay Area people list the
B shops we've gone to and post where it ISN'T available so we'll know where
*not* to go. Sounds like a good idea to me. ANy others?


Elvia

(elvia@uclink3.berkeley.edu)

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:57:07 -0800
From: "Elvia M. Tarango" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: RHP


Interview with Mark K....looking good!

inters

Elvia

(elvia@uclink3.berkeley.edu)

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:57:30 -0600
From: eric (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: what?


>>Re. Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seeveer
>
>>Aren't Lida Husik and The Legendary Pink Dots also on Caroline? I know
>>that Joyride and The Maria Dimension were.
>>
>>Where is Kurt? :(
>>
>>
>>e
>
>
>This is the kind of shit subject heading that is pissing everyone else off.
>Is it too much trouble to change the subject heading when replying to a
>certain posting? - I don't see any Mark K. info in this message... You lazy
>bastard.

apparently you missed the negative, "no," before "mark k."  duh.

eric, who thinks they should teach more grammar in grade schools


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 19:08:45 -0800
From: mvs (mvs@WCO.COM)
Subject: Re: the body shop cd


On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Elvia M. Tarango wrote:

> >
> >can someone please tell me at which body shop in SF the cd is available?
> >

Also, you can get it at SERRAMONTE in Daly City!






>  I was at the Body shop at the 'City Center' in the City (Saturday) and
> they said they blew those out quick! Why don't ew Bay Area people list the
> B shops we've gone to and post where it ISN'T available so we'll know where
> *not* to go. Sounds like a good idea to me. ANy others?
>
> Elvia
>
> (elvia@uclink3.berkeley.edu)
>

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:32:32 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD fans


bahman writes:
>i have always had the impression as well as the experience that
>4AD fans were supportive, relaxed individuals who did not ascribe to
>th holier than thou attitude, so prevalent in the *alternative* scene,
>if another fan did not know a certain info or did not possess a
>certain album. i was wrong. i am subscribing off.

A couple people have mentioned this supposed bad attitude of the list and
I'm not sure what they're referring to. The only recent case I can think
of where someone was flamed for not knowing something was where, right
after a several-day thread about Macbeth and Seefeel where much relevant
information was exchanged -- and I'm talking the next day -- someone asks
"What are Seefeel like" and "Do Macbeth have an album". Questions that
had been answered like the day before. It's that kind of thing that gets
on one's nerves. Although I guess one could be very charitable and assume
the person had subscribed that very day and coincidentally asked about
those very same topics.

Other than that I haven't seen any signs of "elitist" attitude here,
unless you count those who randomly flame AOL'ers, but that has nothing
to do with musical knowlege.

In general this list has been much like what you describe those relaxed
and tolerant 4AD fans as being like; but very recently there's been a
sharp upturn in the number of flames. I think we may have passed some
critical mass of idiots subscribed that causes the whole s/n ratio to
collapse (and e isn't helping by fanning along all the flames in his
postmodern ironic gen-x way...)

____________
Jens Alfke |__________________      He was once a little round ball of cells
            jens@mooseyard.com   Now he makes loud noises & sometimes smells

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 21:42:32 -0500
From: BluBelKnol@AOL.COM
Subject: "e" and "DREAMS & DESIRES"


>
>Up and coming, reviews of [DELETED TO SAVE SPACE] an old Depeche Mode >album
I like, and ...

ok, so maybe the guy isn't half-bad...

4AD related:

I recently traded a guy a Van Morrison CD for a compilation tape called
"DREAMS AND DESIRES" (-circa 1984?)  black & white credits sleeve, along with
@ 6 postcards (also b/w) of various artists on the compilation tape including
Cocteau Twins, Wolfgang Press, Colourbox, Andrew Gray, Dead Can Dance, and
X-mal Deutschland.  All the tracks are demo's, instrumentals and the such.
I found it listed on the Eyesore Database, but have heard of it elsewhere and
I was just trying to get an idea on how rare this particular oddity is and
how much it may be worth.
Any idears?
-Blue


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 11-13-1995