4ad-l Mail for 11-01-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:23:10 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: orange pink red/
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:29:10 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:24:00 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: sundays
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:56:07 -0600
From: pocahontas oi! oi! (joroses@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:25:08 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: How to save 4AD/the amps
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:39:45 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:29:45 -0600
From: Michael C Lawyer (lawmic@BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: a slap in the face for 4ad
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:50:58 -0400
From: EZ (st953km8@DUNX1.OCS.DREXEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: asteroid crashes into earth details at 11
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:55:11 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Bought out? Controlled? Did I miss something?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:55:18 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:48:53 -0800
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Re: Bought out? Controlled? Did I miss something?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:37:33 -0800
From: "WILLIAM FITZALAN, ROUGE AI,
Subject: Re: Xmal Deutschland
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:47:14 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Elysium
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:28:38 -0800
From: [suppressed]
Subject: Re: Projekt:the goth wannabees
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:24:31 -0800
From: ryan@LEONARDO.NET
Subject: Re: Lush
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:06:26 +0100
From: Cord Walter (xeper@UNIXEN.HRZ.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE)
Subject: Re: The CONTINUATION of 4AD, v23
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:20:23 +0000
From: "'H'y" (hmc4@mailer.york.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:38:46 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: ms. deal and ms. deal
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:46:08 -0800
From: Andrew Dean (a.dean@UK22P.BULL.CO.UK)
Subject: Belly Pages
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 04:44:26 -0600
From: Sung Shim (foss@STARNETINC.COM)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 07:23:26 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: Medicine vs Garbage again/Ladykiller
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 07:14:14 -0500
From: Larry Koch (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: DCD-Nova
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:30:20 -0500
From: TIM CONLON (U590@SYSM.ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU)
Subject: Caroline Records/4AD t'aint dead
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:07:55 -0500
From: Phil Stout (IHATEMILK@AOL.COM)
Subject: His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:26:22 -0600
From: Micah Newman[SMTP:mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU]
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:00:32 +0000
From: "Jason L. Phillips" (gec95028@CENT1.LANCS.AC.UK)
Subject: NDN:Re: His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:28:07 EST
From: Network Manager (system@WI.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re: projekt list/LLC
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:14:36 -0500
From: eric burden (burden@ENGIN.UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:38:19 +0000
From: "Fred C. Collins" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:05:00 PST
From: Foothill High School Associated Student Body
Subject: Re: Projekt:the goth wannabees
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:20:56 -0800
From: Robert Pietrusko (cantique@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Bought out? Controlled? Did I miss something?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:00:51 +0000
From: "Fred C. Collins" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Mailing list?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:52:24 -0500
From: SNFLDFAN@AOL.COM
Subject: Another Amps Slag
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:24:56 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: In defence of Scheer
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:48:05 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re. His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:33:40 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re. Mark K. & bad sound
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:24:06 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:37:32 -0500
From: Ashu Rai (AshuR93236@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:45:59 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: cocteau twins ep? -- to katy
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:23:02 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Mailing list?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:31:44 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Re. His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:29:52 -0800
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: Re: In defence of Scheer
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:55:14 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Another Amps Slag
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:03:13 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:59:48 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:54:26 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Projekt:the goth wannabees
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:52:27 -0500
From: anaconda (anaconda@wwa.com)
Subject: The Rest Of Joy Division
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 01:17:34 +0100
From: Frank Brinkhuis (brink2@XS4ALL.NL)
Subject: Re: How to save 4AD/the amps
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:54:14 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Caroline Records/4AD t'aint dead
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:54:39 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re[2]: Projekt:the goth wannabees
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:26:02 CST
From: thad.engeling@CCQM.NATINST.COM
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:07:41 -0800
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Re. His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:05:23 -0500
From: Matthew Krom (krom@MEDIA.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re: Re. His Name Is Alive
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:58:12 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:57:40 -0500
From: Creig Jacobson (CreigJ@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Artistic urges...
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:25:57 -0800
From: Sharkless girl (uthelene@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: 4AD Calendar/etienne/EOST/morricone
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:13:52 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: Re: asteroid crashes into earth details at 11
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:26:54 -0800
From: Chico Salmon (brett@WOPR.GSM.UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:43:36 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:38:24 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: In defence of Scheer
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:06:49 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: How to save 4AD/the amps
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:43:29 -0800
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:23:10 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia


Would anyone supply us outsiders with the details of why they have
a 4 track limit on singles?

Thanks!


Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:29:10 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: orange pink red/


You have a jewel case Twinlights?!  Fontana or Capital?  Has anyone
seen a copy of Otherness on Capital.  They had Fontana copies at
Waterloo, but I bought the last two.

Ciao!

P.S. My first impression of Otherness is "this is seefeel".  I like
seefeel, but had been hoping for more Cocteau Twins.  I have only
checked it out briefly at the store and heard the first two tracks at
home.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:24:00 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /


>in attending a concert, but someone who I know  is
>not as attached to RHP as I am commented that he was pissed off at the
>sound/band/atmosphere at a Houston show in 1992 and his ego 'seemed to
>fill the hall.'

[Kinda reminds me of the "I knew Jack Kennedy..." bit from a couple of
Presidential races ago, but I digress even before I start]

The club in which RHP played in Houston was a dive of epic proportions with a
history of bad sound that goes as far back as the early eighties.  And Mark
wasn't necessarily pissed off, rather he seemed more apologetic.  Typical
between-song exchange:

crying out loud!"

Um, you get the idea.  (A vaguely similar series of exchanges went on at the
unplugged solo show in Ann Arbor near two years later, but that's a whole
different story.)

And I wouldn't necessarily observe that the man has a hall-filler of an ego.
 Rather, he seems quite dedicated, if not head-over-heels obsessed with his
music, and God help any hapless soul that gets in the way between Mark K. and
his almighty Muse.  Really.  I've known a few focussed individuals who are
not the least ego-ridden, but more driven to the point of steamrollering
everything in his or her path.  Mr. Kozelek may easily qualify as one of
those folks.

> Codeine for one.  Idaho would be a keeper for 4ad though.  They are on
> Caroline (no major label/distrubution affiliation to my knowledge).  Does
> anyone know of anyother 'worthy' bands on Caroline?

Codeine seems to be doing quite well on SubPop.  And as far as Caroline are
concerned, they are ultimately funded by Virgin who is arguably far removed
from grass roots indie-dumb [sic].  And as far as other "worthwhile" bands on
Caroline go... I draw a blank.  There's the Dust Brothers album which kicks
as much righteous butt as anything has a right to, but they're on
Astralwerks... which does have a Caroline connection which again leads to...
oh, never mind.

Overheard after the abovementioned RHP gig - From one of the Idaho guys to
Jerry (the now ex-)House Painter:
"What's your favorite guitar tuning?"

Geeks galore, folks.

Cheers,


hk
--
"She's a fake, but she's a real fake."

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:56:07 -0600
From: pocahontas oi! oi! (joroses@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU)
Subject: Re: sundays


Thus spake the almighty obliterator of the English language, Jason L. Phillips:

--only familiar with sundays--would be good--but why should they move?
--They are on a major who allows them to release stuff which isn't
--commercialialized by most judgements.

actually, last i read on the sundays list they had been dropped from
geffen/mca, probably due to the 3+ year lag time between their last album
and now, harriet's starting a family etc.

.j.
who thinks that fax is the new 4ad ;)

---
joroses@mail.utexas.edu
andover '94
-
Mommy, mommy, can I have a cookie?
 -- Sure, honey, take as many as you want from the jar.
 -- But, Mommy, I don't have any arms.
 -- No arms, no cookies.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:25:08 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia


>Would anyone supply us outsiders with the details of why they have
>a 4 track limit on singles?

Apparently some weird rule imposed by the folks who do the UK Top 40 Charts.
 Apparently anything that more than 4 songs is considered a mini-album or
something to that effect and doesn't get to compete in the singles category.
 Weird rule, as I said.

Must... get... a... life....

Cheers,


hk
--
"N is for Neville who died of ennui."


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:39:45 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: How to save 4AD/the amps


>3. Attract all sorts of strange new young bands who want to be just like my
>band (The kumQuats) only they want to play the tuba.

Why tuba?  Why not the oboe?  I have a friend who has a friend who plays the
oboe in a band called Oboe-Cop.  I'm sure they'd fit the bill.  Um, how about
a Tex-Mex oboe-fronted band....  Los Oboes?

[Hats off to Liz the Wind-Up Girl for the oboe jokes.]

Cheers,


hk
--
"Something's up there, Mulder."
"That's what I've been saying for years."

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:29:45 -0600
From: Michael C Lawyer (lawmic@BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD


>I don't have any musical talent

Neither do I (in fact I'm tone deaf) but anyone can scream, and find a
friend to play guitar. The secret is projection of attitude, makeing
everyone else aware of just how cool you really are without pissing them
off. Look at sonic youth, their early stuff was unlistinable distorted
feedback with random screaming and a good concept, I love it dearly, and
today they're getting huge (and they do an awsome live show) It can be done
believe me. Talent only helps, but it's not a necesity ((practice a while,
it'll come to you if you let it)
>
>Good luck with your band, and if 4AD doesn't take you, I think Rough Trade
>has a few spots open.

Thanks

mike

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:50:58 -0400
From: EZ (st953km8@DUNX1.OCS.DREXEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: a slap in the face for 4ad


>Thanks, but I don't know if I'd be able to handle all the mailing.
>Besides, everyone at the US office is GREAT.  REALLY nice people that i
>get along with great.  <-- is that grammatically correct??
hey can i takr it to mean you work for 4ad. i was wonering if you guys
offer summer internships? if so could you send some info or at least a clue
my way. thanx

-eric z

"art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it"
-Brecht


Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:55:11 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: asteroid crashes into earth details at 11


>i was wondering if anyone saw NOVA tonight on asteroids.
>
>in the middle of a computer simulation of an asteroid in space i suddenly
>hear "anywhere out of the world" by DCD.  very nice subtle joke if i do say
>so myself

They also threw in "Saltarello" in its entirety in one of the sequences as
well.

Okay, so some of us pay a bit too much attention to details, but it was an
entertaining program nonetheless.

Also, on The Learning Channel last week, there was a two-hour documentary on
Hitler and Stalin.  Amongst the incidental music were a couple of DCD tracks
- "The Host of Seraphim" and some other song whose title escapes me at the
moment.  One was for Lenin's funeral, and the other was for Stalin's,
methinks.

Woohoo.  Trainspotting.  Someone stop me before I get outta hand....

And then there was the instrumental version of Belly's "Gepetto" on that Best
Buy advert....

Nevermind, I'll stop.

Cheers,


hk
--
"She's a fake, but she's a real fake."

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:55:18 -0500
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Bought out? Controlled? Did I miss something?


>Distributed by and bought out by are 2 very different things....

On a particular level of discussion, yes.  Somewhat like the difference
between heavy petting and outright snogging, I suppose.  There are those who
seem to firmly believe in guilt by association, and by that token, there are
those who decry the "downfall" of the likes of SubPop, Matador, AmRep,
Creation, TooPure, Caroline, etc., whose funding tributaries ultimately lead
to Time Warner, Sony, or some other Ogre with a Suit.  Regardless, there is
an implied influence in a manufacturing/distribution relationship, as often
is the case, the larger entity does have an investment or an interest which
it seeks to at least protect, if not cash in on at a later time.  While the
operative acronym remains TINSTAFL, Corporate Rock can buy you a damn fine
lunch.

[And on a complete aside here, what does Gavin know about indies anyway?  My
God, they are about as an integral part of the Massive Music Machinery of The
Man as Sony, Time Warner, Matsushita, RIAA, BMI, ASCAP, etc.]

However, before we wander down the spiral of "the morality of Corporate hand
jobs," perhaps there should be that token truism that "it's the music,
maaaaaaan, not who's footing the bill."  Hmmm.  Is that kinda like saying one
should appreciate the work of Werner Von Braun whilst conveniently ignoring
who was funding his career up until 1945?

label, for crying out loud.

Cheekily,


hk
--
"She's a fake, but she's a real fake."


Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:48:53 -0800
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /


> I respect RHP and Mark in every way, but we must admit he comes of as an
> asshole in some ways.  Listen to the chatter before one of the tracks
> (forgot which track) on Ocean Beach--his tone/words are pretty severe.

         Oh, you mean that part preceding "Over My Head" that
goes something like this:
"deeeeezidurrzrunsitazmiturzz"
"No [laughs] you've got the wrong song"
"It'll be New Age wind chimes..."
"Hey, do you think you could cut those strings so they're in tune to
something?"
"Okay, you guys, let's go."
[the best song on _Ocean Beach_ begins]

        Is it the "okay you guys, let's go" that sounds severe? He IS the
band "leader" and has the power to say "roll tape" when he wants to.
Otherwise, I think it was his voice joining in on the jokes.
        I love it when bands include "studio chatter" in with the final
master. Some of those things are hilarious, and become classic. For
instance, near the end of the Pixies' _Surfer Rosa_, that whole "YOU
FUCKIN' DIE!" routine, and "Josephine, do ya think yer goin' bald?" in
The Breeders' _Pod_ (it's kind of quiet, listen for it right before
"Metal Man", I think).

= "Wake up, see    \ If there's no God, why      + "Where unadmired beings =
= the sun...what's / are there atheists?         + dread the due changes   =
= done is done..." \  -variation on St. Anselm's + ahead..."               =
=  -Ride: "Today"  /   Ontological Proof         +  -Red House Painters    =

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:37:33 -0800
From: "WILLIAM FITZALAN, ROUGE AI, DREAMS OF ENGLAND"
Subject: Re: Bought out? Controlled? Did I miss something?


Hi everyone...I don't usually respond to what's been going on in this list,
as I have no clue how to be goth or even what projekt is (right...now
no one is listening to me) but this crazy corporate rock distribution
debate is just a little too silly.  We are talking about a world where
everyone's favorite alternband Nirvana went on the cover of everyone's
favorite corporate whore magazine Rolling Stone with one infamous t-shirt;
in a world where such contradictions are blithely allowed to happen, who
are we, mindless consumer peons that we are, to criticize the likes of
the great, lamented Kurt/Kurdt/Curt Kobain for selling out?  More to the
point, what does it matter who you buy your records from?  In a strict
Marxist sense, any material resources you surrender to those willing to
take it is an expoitation of sorts; in a perfect world, we'd all sit
around in the workers' paradise while Lisa Germano and DCD surrounded
us with free ambience.  But it just ain't so, and we know it, so we all
fork up the bucks.
Ah. At this point, my roommate from two years ago says "but Rob, all
the great bands/labels signed to corporate labels and sold out."  Yeah,
and Marxist theory works.  Half the time.  For every great band/label
that has whored themselves and gotten the shaft, there's a great band/
label that's gotten out ahead (well, as ahead as you can ever get in
the Corporate game).  Look at Sub Pop/Nirvana; the Replacements and Twin
/Tone.  Would you rather listen to Tim or Stink, In Utero or Bleach?
I know, I know, these are obvious examples (and none of them are on
the 4AD label anyway) but I'm tired of this debate and I'm just tired.
If 4AD has to be distributed in America by corporate dollars, and that's
the only way I can get my LG and DCD then I'll probably do it, corporate
swine that I am.
I don't mean to come down on anyone, and I'm sorry if I'm harsh, but
what's the point of this ISH if we can't play chicken with it once in
a while.  (at some point, these road metaphors are going to get old.)
Right.  I'm gonna and sit in my closet and get some angst going.


Rob "fuckin' A right I like Jambalaya" Hermann
Born on the Bayou:King of the White Trash Highway

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:47:14 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Xmal Deutschland


>>Hmm, you might be referring to the 'Dreamhouse' single maybe?
Their last album was 'Devils' and Dreamhouse was a track on it.
'Devils' definitely did not have that X-Maly sound. :(<<<

YEAH! It was " Devils. About 13 songs, almost ALL bad. I didn't bother
to buy the "Dreamhouse" single.

Also, my copy of "Viva" doesn't say "Red Rhino" on the label or sleeve,
it's something with "X" in it as the label. I can't think of it now...

Mike
iceblink@delphi.com

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:28:38 -0800
From: [suppressed]
Subject: Elysium


Quick question to all:  I've heard of Elysium from many sources, but
where can  I find their music?  Tower doesn't seem to carry them and a
couple of local indie dealers neither carry them/order them/heard of them.
What label are they with?  What do they sound like?

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:24:31 -0800
From: ryan@LEONARDO.NET
Subject: Re: Projekt:the goth wannabees


mesocyclone  writes:
> I would term Thanatos, Eden, Love Spirals Downward, and most of the
>people on Projekt goth bands

Really now?  I never knew that I liked goth bands (which I don't; can't
stand the stuff!).  Do you have any Eden or LSD cd's (or have you ever seen
them live or on video)?  What is goth about them?  Do they wear goth
clothes and makeup and make gloomy or dancey goth music?  I can't figure it
out!  Eden gets pegged as sounding like DCD, who are not goths (will all
those that think Lisa and Brenden are goths raise your hand), and LSD to
Cocteaus, who are not goths as well (if you think Robin and Liz are goths
and make goth music, except for perhaps their 1'st album Garlands,
well...I don't know what to say, other than you're wrong!  Blue Bell Knoll
is NOT goth!)

I think CZ is onto something when he posted:
> What
>is this prediliction with pigeon-holing music into broad categories that
>mean absolutely NOTHING!  (anyone remember the "alternative" debate?)

I agree.  What's with this need to constantly pigeon-hole music that does
not neatly fit into all these pre-made categories?  How should I
pigeon-hole 'Twinlights'?  Easy-listening?  Piano-pop (ala Billy Joel)?
No, those are all silly.  How should I pigeon-hole 'Pygmalion' by Slowdive?
I haven't a damn clue how to.  BOTTOM LINE: something is what it is.  So
leave it be, analysis is most often wrong when it tries to define the
undefineable.

Take Care,
Ryan


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:06:26 +0100
From: Cord Walter (xeper@UNIXEN.HRZ.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE)
Subject: Re: Lush


Hi there!

> Hey, I just heard Ladykiller and it sounds just like elastica...Is the
> whole new album like this?

>         Brian

uh-oh...

I guess if this is true , there will be a lot of people dissing Lush for copying
Elastica. But IMHO some  Elastica songs sounded a *lot* like very early Lush
(Stutter = Female Hybrid if you ask me) ...

Qapla',
    cord

       ___
  ,-~~~   ~-.    cord walter
 /           \   xeper@unixen.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de
|             |  ranma@unixen.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de
|             |  http://www.uni-oldenburg.de/
|  \_(\_,     |     ~xeper (Music / Pops toenende Wunderwelt)
 \_| .\ /|)   /     ~ranma  (Anime, Manga etc)
    )`' \|\   \      _
   \     ` ~-_ \    ( ~. "Ich liege in der Haengematte,
    ~---'\_-\ \ `-._//~`          also bin ich!"
          >- `.`-.__/              (Paul E. Pop)
         /

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:20:23 +0000
From: "'H'y" (hmc4@mailer.york.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: The CONTINUATION of 4AD, v23


On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, cz wrote:

>         'h'y say:
> >Sorry, but for me the only good thing to come out of 4AD at the moment is
> >the artwork. There seems to be more time gone into this than the music.
> >
> >Otherness = Seefeel minus thought.
>
>         Is this supposed to support your argument?  If you haven't noticed,
> the Cocteau Twins aren't on 4AD anymore.  This statement indicates a lack
> of thought regarding your position.
>

Oh, Really. CT have left 4ad . When? I WAS wondering why there weren't
any 4ad logos or cat no.s on their recent CDs.

Sorry. To clarify the statement.

'Otherness =  Seefeel minus thought'

I was meaning that the new ep by the Cocteau Twins who aren't on 4ad
anymore (well not for a couple of years in fact) sounds to me like Seefeel (
although I'm no expert on Seefeel). Although, from what I've heard of
Seefeel they are more imaginative than this current CT offering.
OBTW - I know Seefeel aren't on 4ad.

Next time I'll make little sub-headings so that you will be able to
follow my messages.


As for artwork vs music.
The last 3 purchases I have made were Scheer, The Amps and Air Miami. Do
I really need to justify whether the artwork or music is better?
But there again this is my own opinion and people are bound to disagree.

My position - 'sat in front of my desk'


'h'y

'H' Cambridge

Stockholm Environment Institute at York



Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:38:46 +0000
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP

              "Initialboy@AOL.COM" at Nov 1, 95 00:25:08 am

Initialboy@AOL.COM wrote:
 >
 > > Would anyone supply us outsiders with the details of why they
 > > have a 4 track limit on singles?
 >
 > Apparently some weird rule imposed by the folks who do the UK
 > Top 40 Charts.  Apparently anything that more than 4 songs is
 > considered a mini-album or something to that effect and doesn't
 > get to compete in the singles category.  Weird rule, as I said.

Not quite as weird as it might seem.  The UK charts are far more
volatile than the US ones, and they are quite susceptible to marketing
schemes.  A few years ago it was common for groups to issue up to a
dozen or so formats of each single, with one different track on each,
so fans who wanted to collect everything ended up paying huge amounts
of money, and the singles went into the charts at positions which
didn't really reflect their popularity (since many people would have
bought half a dozen formats in the first week).  The House of Love and
James were two of the biggest culprits, along with people like Bros and
Frankie Goes to Hollywood.  So the rules were changed so that only four
formats were allowed for a single to be included in the charts (it's
down to three now).  That explains the infamous double-CD single
thing.  Length and track number limits are for similar reasons -
there's no reason why bands can't exceed the limits, but they won't get
included in the charts.  I doubt if this was ever a possibility for
Scheer.  Sebadoh put out a ten-track single a while ago, and Autechre's
latest EP is too long for the charts, but what do they care?

On a 4AD note, Scheer are interviewed in today's NME, claim AC/DC as an
influence (only half-jokingly), and say that the album will be heavier
than the EP.  Gulp.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // nja@le.ac.uk // 01/11/95
On my walkman this morning : Pulp - Different Class
Find also in the sound a thought,

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:46:08 -0800
From: Andrew Dean (a.dean@UK22P.BULL.CO.UK)
Subject: ms. deal and ms. deal


um, couldn't find an nme today (seems they have them in leicester though)
but in the melody maker it mentions that kelley deal has formed a new
band called 'solid state'. not much in the way of details but...

meanwhile, the other ms. deal has plans to tour australia with her amps
around the start of the new year as part of the summersault festival.
(they play another london date on the 7th december btw, they're getting
about a bit)

as for music in tv programs last night we had both mysterons by
portishead ('to kill a dead man' on tonight remember) and the first track
from selected ambient works volume 2 used as background music in a
program about streamlined cars. d'you think they listened to the whole
lps or just stopped after the first track on each?

--
andyx
(a.dean@uk22p.bull.co.uk)


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 04:44:26 -0600
From: Sung Shim (foss@STARNETINC.COM)
Subject: Belly Pages


     There's some new Belly pages, the URL is:

          http://www.starnetinc.com/pwp/foss/belly/belly.htm

check em out,
sung
---
  foss@starnetinc.com


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 07:23:26 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!


On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, tOM. wrote:

> I'm usually a reserved reader of this list in that you don't really hear from
> me much, but this particular evening I found myself listening to some Felt on
> the CD player.  In particular "Primitive Painters" with Liz helping out on
> vocals and produced by Robin.  I never seem to hear anything mentioned about
> these guys from anyone (true, they aren't on 4AD but....) they certainly seem
> to
> fit the "thislisty" description to me.  Are there other Felt fans out there,
> speak up!

I've expressed my adoration for them before, but you're right, we seem
to be a minority on this list.  Those of you who haven't heard Felt
*really* should check them out, especially the Cherry Red stuff...
-----
wendy

"To allow air strikes in Bosnia would be extremely detrimental to travel
everywhere...and this at the peak of the travel season...We should demand
that Clinton retract his statement regarding air strikes. In fact, I
believe that all unions should be stopped...No more strikes!  Let's stop these
communists before they ruin our country."  --Letter to the Santa Maria Times

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 07:14:14 -0500
From: Larry Koch (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Medicine vs Garbage again/Ladykiller


>>Medicine were cool, except for that watery "Time baby 3" shit...not even Liz
>>Fraser could save that one.
>....IT DOSEN'T SOUND LIKE YOU'VE EVER HEARD TIME BABY 2 YET. MEDICINE WAS
>MORE THAN COOL, THEY WERE AN INCREDIBLE BAND...MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT
>MORE OF THEIR STUFF THAN JUST THE CROW SOUNDTRACK

There...is...no...need...to...shout...No, I haven't heard Time Baby 2 yet,
but even without having done so, I do appreciate them a lot. And I don't own
the Crow soundtrack, BTW. And I've met Brad Laner too - nice guy.

> Garbage are complete prefabricated shit - 3
>>middle aged guys and some clueless goth-tart who can't sing except in that
>>half-assed speaking way, and a bunch of dumb noises so people won't notice
>>there's no tunes.
>>....I DISAGREE. TRUE, THE SINGING IS A BIT SILLY, HOWEVER THOSE "DUMB" NOISES
>>ARE KIND OF REFRESHING. IT'S GREAT TO HEAR NOISES IN A POP WORLD DOMINATED BY
>>3 CHORD WONDERS LIKE COURTNEY LOVE, GREEEEN DAY AND OH I CAN'T GO ON.....
>
Well, obviously, it beats hearing C. Love, G. Day, the Presidents of the
USA, Tripping Daisy et al, but they seem to just be going through the
motions of being a noise-pop band. Noises by themselves aren't enough -
otherwise you're just a band for people who find Portishead a wee bit too
challenging. And turn off your caps lock, fuckwit.

>Hey, I just heard Ladykiller and it sounds just like elastica...Is the
>whole new album like this?

Ha! I knew it was going to happen...isn't that convenient (read: more
profitable)? Buncha cheesers

Larry, wondering where exactly in the bible the name "Kent" appears ;)


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:30:20 -0500
From: TIM CONLON (U590@SYSM.ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU)
Subject: DCD-Nova


  You beat me to the punch!  Yes, I saw it (never miss the show).  I
thought it went very well with the video.


TIM CONLON
U590@sysm.acs.Virginia.EDU


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:07:55 -0500
From: Phil Stout (IHATEMILK@AOL.COM)
Subject: Caroline Records/4AD t'aint dead


Someone said:

> Caroline (no major label/distrubution affiliation to my knowledge)

Caroline is pretty corporate. A big arm of Virgin who sometimes uses them as
a farm label at times (i.e. Smashing Pumpkins).

Matador is right up there as well. Matador may try to come off as being
indier than thou, but it's "fuck all" attitude is quite feigned.

People may start labels because they love music, but they would hardly keep
putting things out if they weren't making any money.

Anyway, I think it was Duke Ellington that said: "if it sounds good, it is
good." This statement has been most recently paraphrased by Beavis and
Butthead as to what kind of music they like: "...music that doesn't suck."

My point, 4AD (despite Scheer) are just as inventive today as they have ever
been and just as "corporate" today as they've ever been (i.e. limited
editions, strong visual corporate identity; the only thing ever "indie" about
them was and is they're approach to signing bands).

Love,

Phil (who genuinely likes the Amps' "Pacer" much, much better than Lisa
Gerrard's the "Mirror Pool" and not just for the sake of being different from
you guys or to start an argument, and who also likes the fact that he didn't
have to pay import prices for either).


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:26:22 -0600
From: Holly Emmer (hemmer@RRGROUP.COM)
Subject: Re: His Name Is Alive


------ =_NextPart_000_01BAA833.BA539BF0

Good Micah Newman! =20
Holly

----------
From: Micah Newman[SMTP:mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU]
Subject: His Name Is Alive


hiya kids,
        I'm the one who posted a few days ago saying I hadn't heard a
single HNIA song in my life. Well, I went out and got _Home Is In Your
Head_ this afternoon (as well as Lycia's _A Day In The Stark Corner_,
which I haven't listened to yet). I've listened to most of it, and I must=

say it is indeed great, just like everyone said. Its beauty is truly
undescribable; it simply must be heard. _Livonia_ and _Mouth By Mouth_
will soon follow, definitely.
        And now, I'm going back to my room to finish up HIIYH and take in=

that Lycia thing too. Bye!

=3D "Wake up, see    \ If there's no God, why      + "Where unadmired bei=
ngs =3D
=3D the sun...what's / are there atheists?         + dread the due change=
s   =3D
=3D done is done..." \  -variation on St. Anselm's + ahead..."           =
    =3D
=3D  -Ride: "Today"  /   Ontological Proof         +  -Red House Painters=
    =3D


------ =_NextPart_000_01BAA833.BA539BF0

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BAA833.BA539BF0--


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:00:32 +0000
From: "Jason L. Phillips" (gec95028@CENT1.LANCS.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /


Okay, I guess my rant on Mark was a bit much.  I don't question his
sincerity and commitment.  The It was one of
those late-night, drunken posts.

> [Kinda reminds me of the "I knew Jack Kennedy..." bit from a couple of
> Presidential races ago, but I digress even before I start]

I heard it from the KTRU guru Andy's (the one who graduated) friends
(Tina).  I should have been there if I wanted to comment on it.  I was
really pissed about missing it.  I found out about it by reading a real
shitty review in the Houston Press a week later.  Now, the band as we
knew it is no more, they have no label, and they probably won't come to TX
again.  And I still haven't seen them.
Yes, I know I am an annoying whiner.

> The club in which RHP played in Houston was a dive of epic proportions with a
> history of bad sound that goes as far back as the early eighties.  And Mark
> wasn't necessarily pissed off, rather he seemed more apologetic.  Typical
> between-song exchange:

I have never been to Catal Huyuk, or whatever it is called now.  I guess
I should keep quiet about these things.

> Mark: "Um, I'm sorry about the horrible P.A."
> Crowd: "Oh, that's okay, Mark, we love you anyway. Just shut up and play, for
> crying out loud!"
[splice]
> And I wouldn't necessarily observe that the man has a hall-filler of an ego.
>  Rather, he seems quite dedicated, if not head-over-heels obsessed with his
> music, and God help any hapless soul that gets in the way between Mark K. and
> his almighty Muse.  Really.  I've known a few focussed individuals who are
> not the least ego-ridden, but more driven to the point of steamrollering
> everything in his or her path.  Mr. Kozelek may easily qualify as one of
> those folks.


Yeah, my rant on Mark was a bit much.  I don't question his sincerity or
committment.  In many matters though, the difference between being an
egoist (like H.R. in Ayn Rand) and being ego-ridden are very
slight.  I think the differences are the substance and motivation, not the
behavior commonly observed by others (i.e. if misunderstood he comes off
as an arsehole).  Mark definitely belongs to the H.R.
egoist/steamrolling  camp.  This makes for great music, but I think it is
unhealthy for Mark

_Jason

"If there was a market in mass-produced portable nuclear weapons then
we'd market them too."
                --Allan Sugar, Chairman of Amstrad Corporation

Estelle escapes space-time compression with a one way ticket to outer
space and is 'just kind of having fun by herself, floating and watching
the world blow up.'
                --David Harvey and 'Kenny Scharf, artist'

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:28:07 EST
From: Network Manager (system@WI.MIT.EDU)
Subject: NDN:Re: His Name Is Alive


Your mail to the Microsoft Mail Server could not be fully
delivered!   Reasons listed below!   It has been deleted.


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:14:36 -0500
From: eric burden (burden@ENGIN.UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: projekt list/LLC


On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, mesocyclone wrote:

>   Last I saw on the LLC web page, it was slated for Jan '96.  Did it get
> pushed up?  And do they have anything else out besides the
> bloweyelashwish cd and the single for youreyesimmaculate?  What's the
> track listing for youreyesimmaculate?
>

the 7" has youreyesimmaculate and valerian (hervoicehoneyed)

eric


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:38:19 +0000
From: "Fred C. Collins" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!


A Felt fan here.  Unfortunately, Felt has disbanded.  Oh, well.


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:05:00 PST
From: Foothill High School Associated Student Body
Subject: 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar


The 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar is available by contacting the following.

Arcana - Books On The Arts.
1229 3rd St. Promenade
Santa Monica, CA  90401

Telephone (310) 458-1499

They are licensed by V23 to distribute all of their products here in the
US.  They have also had the Vaughn Oliver book "This Rimy River".  It costs
about $40 dollars.  The 1996 Calendar costs about $30.  When you call and
order from Arcana - tell them you got the info from the 4AD List on the
internet.

Thanks

Layne

PS.  4AD is not dead.  It is merely evolving like all creatures do.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:20:56 -0800
From: Robert Pietrusko (cantique@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Projekt:the goth wannabees


You wrote:
>
>> Projekt, is NOT a goth label.
>
>Yes they are. Contrary to what seems to be a common opinion amonst
>people on this list, not all goths are mopey, "I only listen to
>the Cure and the Sisters" types. We are actually a varied lot.
>
>If you think that Lovesliescrushing,
>Love Spirals Downwards, Eden, Soul Whirling Somewhere, O Yuki
Conjugate,
>Thanatos, and Steve Roach (who all have releases on Projekt) are goth
>
>Actually I would call several of these artists goth.

this shit is stupid! seriously, would a band sound any different if it
was or wasn't thrown into some stupid cat. ('gothic' perfect example).
when arguements like these start, it is really pointless! good music is
good music, and whether they are "gothic" or not is really not worth
anyones time. unless, of course you (not personally directed at anyone)
are a scenester and need to have music labeled so you buy only "gothic"
CDs and shun the rest!


                                -robert.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:00:51 +0000
From: "Fred C. Collins" (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Bought out? Controlled? Did I miss something?


>If 4AD has to be distributed in America by corporate dollars, and that's
>the only way I can get my LG and DCD then I'll probably do it, corporate
>swine that I am.

My background is in Economics.  The issue as a consumer is to maximize my
pleasure for the least amount of bucks.  I don't know if you noticed, but
when 4AD finally got together with those "Corporate" entities, prices for
domestically back catalog CDs were lower in price, i.e., Cocteau Twins.

I think imports are the biggest rip-off in the record industry. Its bad
enough that new CDs cost 12.98 and up, but to add tariff costs to CDs
that could easily be made domestic makes me fume.

Thoughts for the day.

Fred Collins

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:52:24 -0500
From: SNFLDFAN@AOL.COM
Subject: Mailing list?


Hello. If there is a mailing list for 4AD artists, particularly anything for
Saint Etienne, I'd love to be included!!

Thanks!
Chris
snfldfan@aol.com


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:24:56 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Another Amps Slag


>>I don't have any musical talent
>
>Neither do I (in fact I'm tone deaf) but anyone can scream, and find a
>friend to play guitar. The secret is projection of attitude, makeing
>everyone else aware of just how cool you really are without pissing them
>off.

You should both join the Amps.

Andie

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:48:05 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: In defence of Scheer


I've read everyone slagging off Scheer and thought I'd write in to say that
I actually quite like Schism. Admittedly it is not one of the 4AD all time
greats, but You Said and Take You Anywhere (minus the pretentious shite
tagged on annoyingly at the end) are pretty good - I like the form of the
guitar on them, if nothing else...

Sorry Phil, from what I've heard from them the Amps are pish (and I like
milk). I'm almost undoubtedly in a minority here, but I didn't care much
for the Pixies either. Prefered the Breeders by a mile, and since Black
Francis/Frank Black's stuff was cack too, I assumed it was just down to
that fat git... Not so sure now. Horrible noise.

Me, I prefer the Michael Brook/TMC/Heidi Berry/RHP(minus wailing)/DCD kind
of 4AD style (ie. melodic) but own just about all types. The Old School?
That's what I reckon this "End of 4AD" debate stems from. Like someone
put faith in them. You could then always tell whether a group was verging
towards Colourboxness or RHPness by the sleeve design. Now..?

Oh, and I lurve the Lisa G album (we just weren't meant to get on Phil) but
a couple of padding tracks in there meethinks (The Rite, Ajhon, etc.).
Sanvean is much better live - infact Toward the Within is one sexy mf.
Narrowly beaten to the best ever album by Filigree. But why that awful
version of Cantara when it sounds like Lisa's in prolongued labour? - that
is THE only downpoint of the album.

No-one answered to my question about the Sylvian tour. Are you all Goths?
Does anyone know if Mr Brook is part of the band for this tour too? God,
his solo stint/warmup-act in Glasgow was unreal.

Finally I'll say LEAVE IVO ALONE. He's as close to a God as anyone I can
think of (tied with VO).

Stay superconnected.

Andie


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:33:40 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re. His Name Is Alive


Mate, don't bother with Mouth by Mouth... I played it and thought _crap_ .
But since I thought the same about, amongst other things, both _Star_ and
_King_ which are now almost resident in my six-play I thought _ah, give it
another chance_. Worse still. And again..._euchhhhh. It can't even be
written off as being pretentious - really just Warren giving himself a
five-knuckle-shuffle. And how I loved them! Livonia (with perhaps one of
the best sleeves ever?) was sheer joy - love it (definately get it). Agreed
_Home is.._ not bad at all, but the best track gets cut half-way through. I
bought the offending _Mouth_ from a guy on the street in New York for the
large sum of $4 (he was flogging his (or some other unlucky bastard's) CD
collection - seemed to need the money. I'm glad I didn't pay any more for
it - he obviously thought it was only worth =A33 too...

Bought the Mojave 3 disk yesterday since people here had raved about it so
much and having heard the track on FTWW and another on Radio 1. Not bad -
think it will grow on me... (Going to slag the Amps again) I think if I
bought any of the Amps stuff it would just grate on me.

Andie

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:24:06 -0500
From: Andrew Massey (andie@AMASS.DEMON.CO.UK)
Subject: Re. Mark K. & bad sound


I don't know about the Houston place, but I saw the RHPs at the Arches in
Glasgow. Our Heidi played first and was great and the sound was okay. On
come the Painters and crank up the volume (so that the wailing was even
worse no doubt) and after the first song the sound was unbearabley bad.
Mark got very pissed off with the sound guys. Perhaps this happens at all
their gigs? They played a half accoustic, half PA set - by that I mean it
would be unamplified one minute then not, then it would again, then not. It
was BAD. They got it sorted about four songs before the end - just in time
for an extra long wail...

On Marks ego.. He seemed a fairly decent bloke, both off stage and on - he
talked to about eight of us and signed autographs afterwards. he seemed
nice. This one girl asked him what the line _stop eating cabbage and
talk.._ (or however it goes) meant and at first he didn't want to say, said
it was personal. Then took back the piece of paper he had just signed for
her and wrote a long note on what it meant and winked at her and said that
he hoped that would explain. No she didn't show me - I couldn't remember
the line at the time (looked it up after) so I wasn't interested. He also
basically told the bouncer to get lost (in the nicest possible way) when he
started trying to pull the 8 of us outside. So he's okay by me.

But I can understand if Ivo asked him to cut all that wailing. No, sorry it
bugs me. I love to listen to _Blindfold_ when trying to get to sleep, but
all that excesive going on at the end just spoils it for me. I think a
couple on Ocean Beach turned me off the album coz the started to grate with
the screaching, I haven't played it for too long now...

Andie

Ps. Sad to see them leave the roost though. It surprises me for two
get a contract with anyone and that he liked the 4AD attitude; and 2. I
read ages ago that some band (CTwins?) liked 4AD because they were not
pushed into recording/making records - they could do it as often or
infrequently as they liked, with no restrictions on what they could or
couldn't release (basically Ivo was cool). I don't believe he will have
changed that radically. If that last reason is true perhaps the Sundays do
belong on 4AD they take so long to get round to recording... CLAIM-TO-FAME
- Paul Brindley went to my school (four years above me!) and (used to)
drink in my local, The Three Nuns (Six Tits).

Boast over.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:37:32 -0500
From: Ashu Rai (AshuR93236@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!


yes tom, i am one too.  what's the status on them? have they released
anything lately..

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:45:59 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia


Isn't there some law concerning exports within the EEC?

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:23:02 -0600
From: "Michael R. M. Cheselka" (mikec@FAUSTEX.COM)
Subject: Re: cocteau twins ep? -- to katy


Is Nov 21st the US release date?  I have the UK version and its been
out since late October.  Why is it called Cocteau Twins?  It should be
a seefeel single?!  None the less, it's really great.

What is this about Twinlights in a jewel case?  I have import,
domestic, and promo-domestic.  They are all basically the same
digi-pac.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:31:44 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Mailing list?


On Wed, 1 Nov 1995 SNFLDFAN@AOL.COM wrote:

> Hello. If there is a mailing list for 4AD artists, particularly anything for
> Saint Etienne, I'd love to be included!!
>
Gee, Saint Etienne is a 4AD artist now?


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:29:52 -0800
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Re. His Name Is Alive


>Mate, don't bother with Mouth by Mouth... I played it and thought _crap_ .


No, no, no.  And no.  I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion
about band, so I respect yours, but I can't say I agree at all.  In fact, I
think that MbM is by far their best album.  They did a lot of things on it
that I wish they'd done on previous albums - it seemed to have a broader
range of styles.  My favorite songs of theirs are off that album, like "Ear"
and "In Every Ford" and, well, Hell, all of them really.  And _never_ in my
life will I forget December 23,  1888.

Jake,
praying that the gods bring him the 1991 poster pack someday.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:55:14 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: In defence of Scheer


>
> Sorry Phil, from what I've heard from them the Amps are pish (and I like
> milk). I'm almost undoubtedly in a minority here, but I didn't care much

I was actually listening to Pacer this morning and I thought it was
pretty durn good.  I've only gotten halfway through it, but it seems to
be a lot of fun.  I don't know how quick peole were to judge, but if it
was just on the basis of the tipp city ep, I think y'all need to give
Pacer a listen... then dog them if you like.


Strick9

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:03:13 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Another Amps Slag


>>>I don't have any musical talent
>>
>>Neither do I (in fact I'm tone deaf) but anyone can scream, and find a
>>friend to play guitar. The secret is projection of attitude, makeing
>>everyone else aware of just how cool you really are without pissing them
>>off.
>
>You should both join the Amps.
>
I saw them live, it was bueatiful, I would kill for the chance to play with
Kim. (I wdn't kill e bassist though, I talked to him after the show, He was
a nice guy)

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:59:48 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar


>The 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar is available by contacting the following.
>
>Arcana - Books On The Arts.
>1229 3rd St. Promenade
>Santa Monica, CA  90401
>
>Telephone (310) 458-1499
>
Anyway to get it in Minnesota? (without takeing a road trip to california I
mean)

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:54:26 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Mark K. / Caroline Records (Idaho) / Bettie Seveert /


 "YOU
>FUCKIN' DIE!" routine, and "Josephine, do ya think yer goin' bald?" in
>The Breeders' _Pod_ (it's kind of quiet, listen for it right before
>"Metal Man", I think).

Actually it's at the end of happyness is a warm gun it goes something like this


(laughter in backround)

Not that I obsess much or anything
mike

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:52:27 -0500
From: anaconda (anaconda@wwa.com)
Subject: Re: Projekt:the goth wannabees


In article , you wrote:

and thus i jumped in.........

yes, eden does sound like DCD sometimes, yet the vocals also sound like
D Mode sometimes..so be it...it is the feeling that they purvey overall..
when you ask what is *goth* it is what feels goth, i.e. what is dark, yet
portrays *beauty* at the same time. when most people would find some
sort of music depressing, yet all you hear is beauty, it is a sure sign
that it would be tagged as *goth* sounding.


liz and robyn were very much so for the first and maybe second albums...
now they are sweetened ear-candy


true, yet, why is there a mailing list for a LABEL. maybe because we
all share, or have shared at one time, an opinion that it will put
out a certain type of music? i have yet to see several people gather
round to create a time-warner mailing list...my guess is that we
all think there is a certain feeling inherent in musicicians on the
4ad label that we do not find as consistently on other labels (or
maybe we once felt that way).

-bob

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 01:17:34 +0100
From: Frank Brinkhuis (brink2@XS4ALL.NL)
Subject: The Rest Of Joy Division


January 12 1996 London Records are releasing a double-CD of Joy Division
remixes! The first disc is a compilation spanning the carreer of JD, while
the second disc is a special limited maxi-CD of 'Love Will Tear Us Apart'.
The set is titled 'The Rest Of Joy Division'.
This is really sick of course but then, the opening scenes of 'Apocalypse
Now' (of which the soundtrack is/was one of Joy Division/New Order's
favourite records) are also totally sick, while at the same time they have
GRANDEUR!! 'The Rest Of Joy Division' must have the same kind of grandeur: I
love the smell of burning CD's in the morning. What about...

'She's Lost Control' remixed by Francois Kevorkian
'Sister Ray' remixed by Beth B.
'Transmission' remixed by Disco Inferno
'Atmosphere' remixed by Fluke
'Dead Souls' remixed by Trent Reznor & Coil !!!!
'Decades' remixed by Alan Wilder
'The Eternal' remixed by Portishead and William Orbit
'They Walked In Line' remixed by Armand Van Helden
'Ceremony' re-done and re-sung by Arthur Baker
'Love Will Tear Us Apart' remixed/redone by Pet Shop Boys, KMFDM,
Tricky/Bjork, John Marsh and... New Order!!

So we are back to the start and it seems to me that everything is falling
into place now. The whole (pop) music culture 1980-2000...

Frank
++++++++++++
brink2@xs4all.nl
++++++++++++


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:54:14 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: How to save 4AD/the amps


>Why tuba?  Why not the oboe?  I have a friend who has a friend who plays the
>oboe in a band called Oboe-Cop.  I'm sure they'd fit the bill.  Um, how about
>a Tex-Mex oboe-fronted band....  Los Oboes?

actually the kumQuats bassist is also an oboest (is that the right word?),
but it's ok, cause the drummer plays claranet.

mike

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:54:39 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Caroline Records/4AD t'aint dead


>Phil (who genuinely likes the Amps' "Pacer" much, much better than Lisa
>Gerrard's the "Mirror Pool" and not just for the sake of being different from
>you guys or to start an argument, and who also likes the fact that he didn't
>have to pay import prices for either).

Just so you know your not alone, Pacer has yet to leave my CD player sense
I got it home, just plain good stuff.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:26:02 CST
From: thad.engeling@CCQM.NATINST.COM
Subject: Re[2]: Projekt:the goth wannabees


First off, I apologize for continuing this thread on the list.
I would have sent this directly to robert, but he didn't have
his address in the body of his message, and my crippled mailer
has been hiding the headers from me (actually I think it may
be the fault of our MIS dept.)

robert said:

> this shit is stupid!

OK, I could take this a couple ways.

1) either my arguments (which robert quoted) are both shit and stupid
(and by implication I am being called stupid - if I really wanted to
assume the worst)

2) the whole argument is stupid shit.

I'll assume that robert did not intend to attack me directly, and go
with option 2), which still leaves open the question of why did he
bother posting at all.

I'm going to try to explain what I wrote, and then I will address
robert's points. I am also going to try to keep this civil and rational.

I said that projekt is a goth label. What I meant is that they label
themselves gothic. That is all I said, and all I meant. I never said
that all the music they carry is necessarily "gothic". Look at their
adds and their promo materials. If they want to call themselves goth,
then so what.

> seriously, would a band sound any different if it
> was or wasn't thrown into some stupid cat.

I don't recall ever having said this. And the answer is obviously no.
If someone calls a band by any label, that does not change the way the
band sounds. However I do not accept the idea that music cannot be
labelled. There are thousands of bands out there who label themselves
in various ways: classical, jazz, blues, folk, rock, industrial,
experimental, etc. And people everywhere label music. I'm not going
to argue whether that is right or wrong, but it's still a fact of life.
Why? Because that's the way people organize information. If it weren't
for the ability of our brains to categorize, then we would never be
able to deal with all the information that floods in.
Just because someone catagorizes a band, or a piece of music, that does
not imply that they only listen to that type of music, nor does it imply
that that band must always make that kind of music.

I find it ironic that so many bands that go on about how they don't
want to be labelled are in fact frequently the easiest to categorize.

On a side note, there is a peculiar intensity with which a large
number of people into "new music" attack the idea of categories, yet
people into jazz, blues, etc. never get upset about it.

> good music is good music

I agree, and I don't remember having said anything that implied this
was not the case.

> unless, of course you (not personally directed at anyone)

It is difficult to accept that this was not personally directed at me,
since it was in direct response to what I wrote, but I'll take what
you say at face value.

> are a scenester and need to have music labeled so you buy only "gothic"
> CDs and shun the rest!

I certainly don't think I said or implied this. I have a substantial
music collection and it covers a lot of territory, not just gothic.

I hope that I haven't irritated too many more people. If anyone wants to
discuss this, or flame me, call me stupid, whatever, mail me at
thad.engeling@natinst.com
unless you want to publicly humilate me, in which case go ahead and
send it to the list. I certainly can't stop you.

Next time I'll sprinkle smiley throughout my post so that it has a
better chance ofbeing properly interpreted by those with no sense of humor.

later on,
Thad
"This isn't death, this is just a textural event"

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:07:41 -0800
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Re: Hidden track on Scheer CD-EP/ Cat. number trivia

              Nov 1, 95 12:45:59 pm

Well...laws or not, albums and singles that are not supposed to be
exported from Europe get over here to America ALL THE TIME.  Of course,
its never anything that I can't find already, it has to be stuff that's
either readily available or stuff that will be soon.

Case in point...never mind.  I know of a store in San Francisco
(Berkeley, actually) and one in Mesa Arizona who get imports that are NOT
supposed to be exported.

>
> Isn't there some law concerning exports within the EEC?
>

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:05:23 -0500
From: Matthew Krom (krom@MEDIA.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re. His Name Is Alive


>Mate, don't bother with Mouth by Mouth... I played it and thought _crap_ .

It's an odd group of songs...  (funnily enough, the first few times through
Home Is In Your Head I was convinced it was just Warren getting himself off!
I no longer think that)  There are a couple tracks which aren't up to
standards.  I think you could lift some of the songs taken together would make
a stellar recording.  They are:  In every ford, Lord make me a channel of your
peace, Where knock is open wide, sort of..., sick, blue moon, lemon ocean, the
dirt eaters, baby fish mouth, drink dress & ink.  Hmm.  Two particularly great
tracks are "Sort of... sick" (actually 2) and "The Dirt Eaters."  I also like
"library girl" (AVAM).
-Matt

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:58:12 -0800
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Re. His Name Is Alive


> five-knuckle-shuffle. And how I loved them! Livonia (with perhaps one of
> the best sleeves ever?)


YES!!!! YES!!!!!  YES!!!!!

I remember a thread about a year back where someone asked what everyone's
favorite 4AD artwork was, and this was my first choice!!  GORGEOUS!!

I also think that the Bauhaus '4AD' 12" is rather good.  Very
sophisticated, imo.

Strick9


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:57:40 -0500
From: Creig Jacobson (CreigJ@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar


>The 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar is available by contacting the following.
>
>Arcana - Books On The Arts.
>1229 3rd St. Promenade
>Santa Monica, CA  90401
>
>Telephone (310) 458-1499
>
>Anyway to get it in Minnesota? (without takeing a road trip to >california I
>mean)

Arcana does a great mail order service...I dealt with them for the Rimy River
book, AVAM video and t-shirts, too...if you've got a credit card, give them a
call.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:25:57 -0800
From: Sharkless girl (uthelene@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Artistic urges...


You wrote:
>
>>
>> There are several folks in Minneapolis meeting up for round 2 of CW
and
>> Belly tonight at first ave.  I will one of the first in line, look
for
>> a 5'4" person with longish reddish hair.  I'm hoping we can hook up
>> with Patty who does all of CW's web page, mailing list stuff.
Anyhow,
>> ask for Kayleigh, maybe we can take over the whole place!  cheers
>>
>Golly, I just know we have to hook up some time, Kayleigh!  This
weekend
>artistic urges got the best of me.  My friend Dan and I had an
extremely
>good weekend photographing in Chicago last weekend, and we decided to
>take a trip up to the Iron Range on the spur of the moment Friday to
>take advantage of our still hyper creative urges.  We spent the
weekend up
>there milling about and shooting pics.
okay, so in the interest of art, i forgive you.  I was actually worried
because there was this guy who came up to me, with reddish brown hair
but not quit 6 ft and he was SCAREY...anyhow he wouldn't tell me his
name.  so, needless to say, freak out...

Tell me about the concert, por
>favor.  How were Catherine Wheel?

absolutley incredible awesome, still can't get it out of my mind.
played for 1 hour and a half.  i sent a song listing to the cw list, if
yer interested i'll recreate for you.  They blew belly off the stage,
well actually i'm not much of a belly fan.  I really only enjoy them
live, which is far more entertaining than the flatly rpoduced star,
king was better.  Although kind did not receive much aclaim.  enough
BELLY.  the usual reserved minneapolis crowd kept their distance,
fools.  and towards the end of the show, finally warmed up.  bruce also
played the last song of the show on belly's time, DUSTED.  he was
screaming the screamer part of the lyrics, which led the crowd to
believe that bruce and tanya were doing the nasty in the greyhound bunk
beds.


Did they play "Black Metallic"?  That's
>my fave of theirs. Yep and it was over 1o minutes long, with a really
low-fi instrumental part, in fact people thought the song was over
with.

 What comps did you score?
absolutely, friggin' nothing, pissed me rught off.  actaully at the
figdish show, they opened for letters to cleo, they had about 3 bundles
of comps to 1 bundle of paid.  When that happens with all ages shows
but the little rug rats don't shell out the bucks for the drinkies.

What are your next 1st
>Ave plans?
>
>  -T
>
I have the bjork / goldie show to promote.  In fact if yer over by Let
it Be anytime soon, I did the disply case outside.  I am dealing with a
meet and greet for both artists and then putting up stuff in First Ave
for the show.  so i will be very very busy and freaked out.  Who knows
what all i'll be doing, maybe even taking them around on tours.  who
knows?  so, i'll be at my usual table, all along the railing at the
side bar.

there it is...


Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:13:52 -0500
From: hortman_m@HCCS.CC.TX.US
Subject: 4AD Calendar/etienne/EOST/morricone


> >The 1996 V23 - 4AD Calendar is available by contacting the following.
> >
> >Arcana - Books On The Arts.
> >1229 3rd St. Promenade
> >Santa Monica, CA  90401
> >
> >Telephone (310) 458-1499
> >
> Anyway to get it in Minnesota? (without takeing a road trip to california I
> mean)

A VISA card and a telephone?

I have nothing but good things to say about Arcana; I ordered the Rimy River
thingie from them back when the AVAM was going on; and they went the extra
yard and had Vaughn, Chris and Nigel sign it before they sent it. (well..three
people signed it; i don't remember if it was those three names metioned; I
know Vaughn and Chris are two of them...)


..and why isn't St. Etienne a 4ad artist?  Those samples they use fit right in
with Colourbox.  I really REALLY like "so tough".  Much better than "Fox Base
Alpha"; although I do LOVE the line:

"where am i from?  I'm from the united states of KISS MY ASS!"

Anybody know where that line is from?

Also, did the Ecstacy of St. Theresa "free-d" thing come out ONLY on LP?  Is
there not a CD of it out?  How the heck can I find it?

Oh, one more thing; I just found the original soundtrack to "once upon a time
in america" (french import) instead of hearing snatches of it off of various
Morriconne compilations I have and I have to say it is one INCREDIBLE
soundtrack.  Ahhhhh...Ennio rules!  (so does Sergio Leone)


marvynHortman                 ftp://sharedcast.hccs.cc.tx.us

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:26:54 -0800
From: Chico Salmon (brett@WOPR.GSM.UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: asteroid crashes into earth details at 11


> >
> >in the middle of a computer simulation of an asteroid in space i suddenly
> >hear "anywhere out of the world" by DCD.  very nice subtle joke if i do say
> >so myself
>
> They also threw in "Saltarello" in its entirety in one of the sequences as
> well.
>
> Okay, so some of us pay a bit too much attention to details, but it was an
> entertaining program nonetheless.

Well I was flipping through the channels the other night and I heard
"Sugar Hiccup" on one of those really bad entertainment shows. It was
feature on Halloween. I guess the Cocteau Twins are scary or something.

Brett

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:43:36 -0500
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!


On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Ashu Rai wrote:

> yes tom, i am one too.  what's the status on them? have they released
> anything lately..

They broke up about five years ago, more or less.  Lawrence's
post-Felt band, Denim, has apparently broken up too.  Anyone know
what Maurice Deebank's been up to since Inner Thought Zone?
-----
wendy

"To allow air strikes in Bosnia would be extremely detrimental to travel
everywhere...and this at the peak of the travel season...We should demand
that Clinton retract his statement regarding air strikes. In fact, I
believe that all unions should be stopped...No more strikes!  Let's stop these
communists before they ruin our country."  --Letter to the Santa Maria Times

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:38:24 -0700
From: Russell Martin (russellm@XMISSION.COM)
Subject: Re: Felt fans unite!


>Are there other Felt fans out there,
>speak up!
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~>>
>tOM.                                                   tom@iresearch.com

I love Felt, but I guess it is an acquired taste. Most people that I've
ever let listen to them, don't quite connect with it. I think Maurice
Deebank's guitar in the first half of Felt's history is extremely poignant.
It took me longer to warm up to Martin Duffy's keyboards for the later Felt
recordings.

Just curious, what are people's opinions of the new Cocteau Twins ep
"Twinlights"? (Forgive me if this has already been discussed.) I think it
is great. I was wondering if they would do two 4-trackers this year ('95)
like they did in '85.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Martin
russellm@xmission.com

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:06:49 -0600
From: Mike Lawyer (lawmic@HOMER.ACS.BETHEL.EDU)
Subject: Re: In defence of Scheer


>Sorry Phil, from what I've heard from them the Amps are pish (and I like
>milk). I'm almost undoubtedly in a minority here, but I didn't care much
>for the Pixies either. Prefered the Breeders by a mile, and since Black
>Francis/Frank Black's stuff was cack too, I assumed it was just down to
>that fat git... Not so sure now. Horrible noise.

I, being a firm believer in free speech, fully support your right to
publicly display you ignorance and lack of musical taste, however I must
point out that the Pixies are far closer to divinity than Ivo ever will be
(he's a nice guy and everything, but still)

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:43:29 -0800
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: Re: How to save 4AD/the amps


>>Why tuba?  Why not the oboe?  I have a friend who has a friend who plays the
>>oboe in a band called Oboe-Cop.  I'm sure they'd fit the bill.  Um, how about
>>a Tex-Mex oboe-fronted band....  Los Oboes?
>
>actually the kumQuats bassist is also an oboest (is that the right word?),
>but it's ok, cause the drummer plays claranet.

Hey, with that kind of talent you could just reorganize into a polka band.
Cause despite what anyone says, polka is the thing that will _really_ save
4AD...


Mr. Jake