4ad-l Mail for 10-28-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: sycophant list (lisa germano list) is ALIVE at last (fwd)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 22:10:15 -0700
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Re: Kendra Smith
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 01:51:31 -0400
From: "J. Slagle" (joe801@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:24:43 -0700
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 02:18:31 -0400
From: Srilank@AOL.COM
Subject: Otherness and other mess
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 19:34:27 -0400
From: Michael Franz (gsource@INTERPORT.NET)
Subject: Re: 'Fuck You Tiger'
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:08:31 -0700
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Kendra Smith/Dream Syndicate
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 01:39:56 -0700
From: Noah Slankard (slankard@PRIMENET.COM)
Subject: Re: Then [sic] End of 4AD
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 04:53:53 -0400
From: Gil Gershman (TooPurist@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:13:42 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: Kendra Smith
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:10:00 -0400
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: Re: Confused For A Change
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:22:49 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: info database
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:17:59 -0400
From: Matt Galloway (BIKECART@AOL.COM)
Subject: The CONTINUATION of 4AD, v23
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:41:34 -0400
From: TMParade@AOL.COM
Subject: What are recent 4AD releases?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:10:16 -0400
From: Lucius Kwok (lucius@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:19:24 -0700
From: Elvia Tarango (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: orange pink red/
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:24:25 -0400
From: ornery lawn jockey (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: King of Sweet
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:21:43 -0700
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: Re: sycophant list (lisa germano list) is ALIVE at last (
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:18:29 PST
From: "Martin A. HOYT" (MAHOYT@UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: King of Sweet
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:41:12 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: King of Sweet
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:50:25 -0400
From: "[spiral]" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: The End Of 4AD
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:49:59 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: King of Sweet
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:19:07 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: the end of 4AD ?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:09:39 -0700
From: Matthew Polder (mpolder@SUN1.PS.UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: the end of 4AD ?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:37:37 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Mojave 3 Cd is here
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:15:54 -0800
From: ryan@LEONARDO.NET
Subject: Take the "End of 4AD" challenge!
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:40:55 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 17:40:05 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: we broke the 400 barrier!
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:50:11 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: The End of 4AD
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:58:56 -0800
From: ryan@LEONARDO.NET
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:58:17 -0700
From: snowangel k-j (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: A little announcement...
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:49:25 -0700
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: The End of 4AD, or How to Be A Zillionaire...
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:02:15 -0700
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: A little announcement...
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 19:33:27 -0500
From: JEHEINDL@AMHERST.EDU
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:11:35 -0400
From: Joey (jbriante@UOGUELPH.CA)
Subject: Gerrard Biography
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:20:26 -0400
From: Matt Galloway (BIKECART@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:16:44 -0400
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: St Etienne fan club address & Daho split single
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:13:42 +1100
From: Donald Chin (donaldc@NETSPACE.NET.AU)
Subject: Re: an mbv question (someone please take pity on me and answer)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:13:46 +1100
From: Donald Chin (donaldc@NETSPACE.NET.AU)
Subject: info request
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:31:38 -0400
From: Matt Galloway (BIKECART@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: A little announcement...
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:42:52 -0500
From: Steven Venn (svenn@INFORAMP.NET)
Subject: mojave 3: ask me tommorrow
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:58:51 -0400
From: Joey (jbriante@UOGUELPH.CA)

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 22:10:15 -0700
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Re: sycophant list (lisa germano list) is ALIVE at last (fwd)


        What is L.G. like? That's one of those 4ad artists of which I never
would have heard if I hadn't subscribed to this list, like HNIA, Air
Miami, and Kendra Smith. I haven't heard a single song of any of those
artists, although I intend to get some HNIA eventually.

= "Wake up, see    \ If there's no God, why      + "Where unadmired beings =
= the sun...what's / are there atheists?         + dread the due changes   =
= done is done..." \  -variation on St. Anselm's + ahead..."               =
=  -Ride: "Today"  /   Ontological Proof         +  -Red House Painters    =


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 01:51:31 -0400
From: "J. Slagle" (joe801@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU)
Subject: Re: Kendra Smith


>        What is L.G. like? That's one of those 4ad artists of which I never
>would have heard if I hadn't subscribed to this list, like HNIA, Air
>Miami, and Kendra Smith. I haven't heard a single song of any of those
>artists, although I intend to get some HNIA eventually.
>
Regarding Kendra Smith, her work goes far beyond her association with 4AD.
Back before Mazzy Star existed, David Roback's band was Opal and Smith was
the female vocalist. If you've never heard any of their stuff you should
try to find some. Their song "Fell From the Sun" is a classic. She also did
some work with Roback's earlier band Rain Parade. You can hear a cover of
their song "Carolyn's Song" on This Mortal Coil's Blood. IMHO Smith's Five
Ways of Disappearing is an enjoyable cd, kind of moody and sci-fi-ish, but
then again I like the new Air Miami cd also, so maybe I'm just easily
pleased. However, I tried to sell back my HNIA cd, but they wouldn't buy
them because they had too many already.

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:24:43 -0700
From: Rick Stone (crnholio@EMF.NET)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD

              Oct 27, 95 12:22:04 pm

All that I can say is that I agree...wholeheartedly.

Rick


>
> I don't know.  I'm starting to think that after a decade of 4ad, that their
> time is over...I think its time to find a new label...like Matador or
> something to that effect.  After the Red House Painter situation and just
> the general same-ness of recent albums by various groups, I feel that a new
> movement needs to be found.  I would like to hear comments on this. Please
> don't flame...this is just a thought of day.
>
> Lightnin' Power to All
>
> Fred/Derf
>
> (c/o elvia@uclink3.berkley.edu)
>


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 02:18:31 -0400
From: Srilank@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD


>I don't know if it is fair to compare FTWW with LIAE.  One is a promotional
>sampler with material from current releases, the other is made up of
>material not available elsewhere, and in a few cases recorded especially
>for LIAE (I might be wrong about that!).  My point being, I think the
>artists had more input into LIAE than FTWW.

FTWW is a representation of where 4AD is, however.
You're right about LiaE, in that each recording was made especially for the
comp., but if Ivo we're to approach some of the artists today concerning
putting together a similar comp. (say...a LiaE 2 or Lonely is a Scheer fan) I
don't think it would be up to par, even to completely objective ears.

>So who's going to save the label? His Name Is Alive, Dead Can
>Dance (plus solo projects),and Throwing Muses (after years of
>slagging them off, and after being ready to drive the final
>nail into their coffin after Red Heaven, I was delighted by
>University, by far their best effort since House Tornado).

I can't say *who's* going to save the label, but as of the last 3-4 years,
there has been a huge turnover of 4AD acts.  It's like a new Ivo/Baskin
Robbins flavor every month--they release an album or e.p., and "that's it off
to oblivion with ya" (or Rough Trade whichever applies).

I know there should be more, but here are 5 steps of redeption that Ivo may
want to consider:

1) Blame Scheer and the Amps on Robin Hurley, then drop them.

2) Swallow your pride, kiss Robin Guthrie's butt, and bring the Cocteau Twins
back to their *real* home.

3) Recall Kurt Ralske, Mark Kozelek, and Pieter Nooten.

4) Quit putting out so many damn samplers!

5) Beg, borrow, and steal Disco Inferno, Tindersticks, the Sundays, that
Kevin Shields band, Loveliescrushing, and the Innocence Mission.

Feel free to add more.  I figure after we accrue about 100 or so reasons we
can mail it to 4AD headquarters.

Late, it's oh so late,

Jason

srilank@aol.com

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 19:34:27 -0400
From: Michael Franz (gsource@INTERPORT.NET)
Subject: Otherness and other mess


I spoke to the Cocteau Twins publicist at Capital yesterday.  She said that
Otherness has been postponed till Dec 5th.  She had no idea why.

By the way, we have a review of Twinlights in our October issue now online
in the "Aesthetica" section, and will have a review of Otherness in our
November issue, as soon as we get the advance copy.  Also, we have a copy
of the Twins' short film, and will be making it available for download
soon.  I'll let you guys know when it's ready.

Also, there are little snippets of music before "Rilkean Heart", between
the songs, and after "Half-Gifts".  They are incredibly beautiful, like
what I expected from the Cocteau Twins before they started doing all this
commercial fodder.  They are haunting.  I hope that they're indicative of
the forthcoming album.  Their publicist didn't know.

Take care,

Michael Franz
Editor-in-Chief
GaySource Magazine
editor@gaysource.com


Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:08:31 -0700
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Re: 'Fuck You Tiger'


        What the hell kind of a title is that?

= "Wake up, see    \ If there's no God, why      + "Where unadmired beings =
= the sun...what's / are there atheists?         + dread the due changes   =
= done is done..." \  -variation on St. Anselm's + ahead..."               =
=  -Ride: "Today"  /   Ontological Proof         +  -Red House Painters    =


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 01:39:56 -0700
From: Noah Slankard (slankard@PRIMENET.COM)
Subject: Kendra Smith/Dream Syndicate


On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, J. Slagle wrote:

> Regarding Kendra Smith, her work goes far beyond her association with 4AD.
> Back before Mazzy Star existed, David Roback's band was Opal and Smith was
> the female vocalist. If you've never heard any of their stuff you should
> try to find some. Their song "Fell From the Sun" is a classic. She also did
> some work with Roback's earlier band Rain Parade. You can hear a cover of
> their song "Carolyn's Song" on This Mortal Coil's Blood. IMHO Smith's Five

 You forgot to mention her work with The Dream Syndicate. She was a
big part of the appeal of their first few singles/ep's, and classic debut
album, "The Days Of Wine and Roses." After, she left and they signed a
deal with A & M, the band began to really suck. Really bad desert rock.
The clincher was when guitarist Karl Precoda left. Anyways, that first
record is well worth checking out.

                                noah

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 04:53:53 -0400
From: Gil Gershman (TooPurist@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Then [sic] End of 4AD


Sorry about the correction... I'm really picky about grammar. :-b
And I should warn you that I'm in a VERY cynical mood.

>5) Beg, borrow, and steal Disco Inferno, Tindersticks, the Sundays, that
>Kevin Shields band, Loveliescrushing, and the Innocence Mission.
(srilank@AOL.com)

Disco Inferno - sadly (...sniff) defunct. But I'd sell my soul for an Ian
Crause solo LP...

Sundays - you might as well keep the current bands; they're just as generic
and unspectacular

Kevin Shields is a musician? I thought he was a doped out taxi driver and
occasional remixer...

lovesliescrushing - are brilliant where they are; 4AD would just saddle them
with an inappropriate producer....

Innocence Mission - see 'Sundays'... or, better yet, don't.

Tindersticks - FAR too good for current-day 4AD; I can't think of any label
deserving of this band - unless you give em                      a few Moogs,
Ondiolines, and cowbells and sign 'em to TooPure. :-)


Who will save 4AD?
I dunno - it's pretty far gone right now.
If only the label would rediscover its hallowed roots:

- maybe issue that Dif Juz compilation that we're all salivating for
- maybe take legal action forcing Lisa and Brendan to make all albums joint
efforts
- maybe apologize to Robin, Simon, and Liz for making the Cocteaus less of a
priority than the Pixies...
- maybe bring back the awesomely underrated Swallow (cute Rough Trade line,
whoever said that...)
- maybe cleanse the word 'rock' from the palettes of all signed musicians
- allow HNIA and the Dirt Eaters to remain separate, equally spectacular
musical entities. Twice as much fun! :)

...and look towards the future by righting past wrongs:
- @(%*ing sign ESP Dolphins/Summer already!
- sign Moose and nurture them lovingly.
- reunite Ecstasy of St. Theresa, sign them, and offer them actual (god
forbid!) distribution for their amazing albums.
- allow Mark Kozeleck free artistic reign; genius conforms to no rules.
- release out that legendary Cranes work based on "The Flies"
- revive Adorable and Swervedriver from their undeserved and untimely deaths

Okay. It's more than any label can do - let alone a relatively small
independent like 4AD. But Ivo has lost the spark and the magic which once
made his little empire seem like an oasis of creativity and expression in a
vast desert of mediocrity. Now 4AD seems to be just so many more miles of
barren sand.

Flame on, diehard believers.
I've abandoned hope.

Gil
(just another outspoken music lover awake at 4:30am...)

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:13:42 +0200
From: Emiel Efdee (efdee@LUNA.NL)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD


...I know there should be more, but here are 5 steps of redeption that Ivo may
...want to consider:
...
...1) Blame Scheer and the Amps on Robin Hurley, then drop them.
...
...2) Swallow your pride, kiss Robin Guthrie's butt, and bring the Cocteau Twins
...back to their *real* home.
...
...3) Recall Kurt Ralske, Mark Kozelek, and Pieter Nooten.
...
...4) Quit putting out so many damn samplers!
...
...5) Beg, borrow, and steal Disco Inferno, Tindersticks, the Sundays, that
...Kevin Shields band, Loveliescrushing, and the Innocence Mission.


6) ignore step 1,2,3,4 and 5, go on with what you're doing now because
there are too many people who want you to stop time, go back and do it all
over again.

7) forget the Cocteau Twins because they are doing the same thing for years
and we all have heard this by now. Did you hear their new single...? I'm
glad this wasn't released by 4AD.

8) get rid of the old leftovers and release what you like!


It's not the end of 4AD, it's just the begining (of a change). If they do
the same thing over and over again, that would be boring and if means that
the artists are asleep. I'm not saying that every release at the moment is
my favorite but I don't complain... what the hell it's just a record label,
you don't *have* to buy everything (well... I do).


btw Pieter Nooten is making hous music at the moment (with his brother)
See for yourself at:  http://www.riv.nl/yuliana/hypercycle/cybhc.htm


Emiel


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:10:00 -0400
From: wendy lyon (wlyon@DELPHI.UMD.EDU)
Subject: Re: Kendra Smith


On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, J. Slagle wrote:

> Regarding Kendra Smith, her work goes far beyond her association with 4AD.
> Back before Mazzy Star existed, David Roback's band was Opal and Smith was
> the female vocalist. If you've never heard any of their stuff you should
> try to find some. Their song "Fell From the Sun" is a classic. She also did
> some work with Roback's earlier band Rain Parade.

She also played bass in The Dream Syndicate on their first album
(when they were still good) The Days of Wine and Roses.  She sings on
one song.  You can also find her on Rainy Day, an album of '60s covers
performed by various paisley underground people (members of Rain Parade,
Three O'Clock, and Bangles plus TDS); she sings on the covers of Big
Star's "Holocaust" and Buffalo Springfield's "Flying On The Ground Is
Wrong."  I strongly recommend both these albums, though I think
Rainy Day is out of print, and though she hadn't really learned to
keep a tune yet.
-----
wendy

"To allow air strikes in Bosnia would be extremely detrimental to travel
everywhere...and this at the peak of the travel season...We should demand
that Clinton retract his statement regarding air strikes. In fact, I
believe that all unions should be stopped...No more strikes!  Let's stop these
communists before they ruin our country."  --Letter to the Santa Maria Times

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:22:49 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Confused For A Change


>>"Otherness" is the ambient EP,
already available in the UK and Canada (according to 4ad-l'ers), set for Nov
21 here in the states.  Hopefully, copies will sneak over sooner...<<<


Otherness was released as an import in the US on Friday 26 October. I
have a friend in JACKSONVILLE FLORIDA who has it. I live in BOSTON and
can't find a bloody damned copy ANYWHERE!!!!!  And I've searched virtually
every record peddler from Kenmore Square to Harvard to Downtown Crossing...
Has anyone in Boston seen it yet??

HELP!

Mike
iceblink@delphi.com


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:17:59 -0400
From: Matt Galloway (BIKECART@AOL.COM)
Subject: info database


Info database


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:41:34 -0400
From: TMParade@AOL.COM
Subject: The CONTINUATION of 4AD, v23


The end of 4AD?
Who's going to save 4AD?
I don't know.

Personally, although I don't care for the "corporateness" (i.e., the recent
flood of promos, etc.) of 4AD of late, I'm actually very interested in the
label's current direction. At the same time, I'm not expecting another
Cocteau Twins or Wolfgang Press or whatever. How can 4AD grow if they didn't
follow their current path? Also, I can't see any non-4AD artist being on 4AD.
I wouldn't jump in the river if Ivo W-R told me to, but I tend to have faith
in his musical taste. While most artist's fans tend to favor their first
albums, notice that most 4AD artist improve with age.

Besides, Vaughan Oliver is producing his finest work ever! He continues to
amaze and inspire me as a fellow graphic designer. For this reason, 4AD is as
important as ever. I know Mr Oliver can easily find other clients, but you
can't put a price on the artistic freedom he tends to get with 4AD.

Sorry for babbling!


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:10:16 -0400
From: Lucius Kwok (lucius@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: What are recent 4AD releases?


I just got Tarnation's Gentle Creatures and Kendra Smiths' Five Ways of
Disappearing, and was wondering what other 4AD albums have been put out?
I know some people don't like these two albums, but for the past week
they've been pretty much the only cds I've been listening to. (Though I
have Slowdive's Souvlaki on right now.)

Paula Frazer (of Tarnation), her voice takes a little getting used to,
but it is so full of expression that I want to listen to it again and
again.  It does sound crude and unpolished when she sings, but I also
thought Kristin Hersh's voice was unbearable at first.

Kendra Smith is heavy on the synth at times, but there are some really
good songs on it. I like "Temporarily Lucy" and "Valley of the Morning
Sun." "Maggots" is really a 'whimsical' song and a counterpoint to the
rest of the album.

After reading all the negative comments about recent 4AD releases, you'd
never realize the level of quality that 4AD puts out. I just got two
albums that I liked, and now I'm looking for other recent 4AD stuff. So,
what's been recently released?

--- Lucius Kwok  (lucius@astro.ocis.temple.edu) ---

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:19:24 -0700
From: Elvia Tarango (elvia@UCLINK3.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Then End Of 4AD


Emiel Efdee wrote:
>
>It's not the end of 4AD, it's just the begining (of a change). If they do
>the same thing over and over again, that would be boring and if means that
>the artists are asleep. I'm not saying that every release at the moment is
>my favorite but I don't complain... what the hell it's just a record label,
>you don't *have* to buy everything (well... I do).

Well, Mark Kozelek was trying to go about that *change* you talk about and
look what happened.

Elvia

(elvia@uclink3.berkeley.edu)

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:24:25 -0400
From: ornery lawn jockey (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: orange pink red/


>red orange pink
>
>i would feel really lame, if i screwed up the order in that title!

You did, Katy, you did. It's the other way around, but don't feel lame

>anyway, does anyone have the new "Twinlights"?  this song is on it,
>which, i guess, is originally from "Echoes in a Shallow Bay" (as far as i
>know).  it has a much more relaxing, softer effect on "Twinlights", which
>is nice and all, but i prefer the old version.  comments?

The new version is kinda too easy on the ears. All the momentum in the
chorus, if you can call it that - you know, where the drums come in - is gone.

[Otherness]
>It was an imported Fontana digipak (yecch), but it was
>reasonably priced at $9.99 (not bad for an import).

I'd rather have it as a digipak than the plain old conventional CD case that
mine came in, with its cheapo single sleeve insert. I must say I quite like
the reconstructions of Feet Like Fins and Cherry Coloured Funk, (even though
Mark Clifford threw out my favourite bits from each song) as well as the 2
new tracks. I certainly like this EP better than Twinlights. Anyone else?

>The inside front cover is strikingly similar to that of Funky Little
>Demons by The Wolfgang Press.

The cover art was done by Jim Friedman, who also did the same kind of DNA
chromatograph thing for the Lush album _Spooky_. Did he do the TWP cover as
well?

>I am completely unable to explain why Scheer and The Amps are on _any_
>record label (Ivo must feel some loyality to Kim Deal for some reason,
>other than Pod, she hasn't done anything worthwhile since the Pixies, IMHO)

It's in her contract - she's the only one in the Breeders or the Amps to
actually have a contract for x number of albums, and she did say once that
she could put out a "Kim Deal tuba album" if she really wanted to and it
wouldn't be a problem. So much for quality control...

>Just found the Outdoor Miner / Psychic Driving ep ... is rather excellent .
> Did this come out inbetween Distance and Further ??

No, it's the most recent thing they've done, after Further. I really wish
they hadn't done the Wire cover, though - it makes them no different from
all the other bands in the UK that are currently saying "We're influenced by
Wire...no, really we are" over and over again as a sort of mantra to attain
credibility, although I suppose doing an actual cover seems more honest.
They should have done some old krautrock song. And Dave looks really stupid
in his glasses in the AP picture.

Larry, who saw cassette copies of Head Over Heels and Treasure at a garage
sale for $1 each today


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:21:43 -0700
From: Jake Reichert (reicja00@DONS.AC.USFCA.EDU)
Subject: King of Sweet


I was wondering if anyone knows the availability of HNIA's _King of Sweet_.
I know that it was a limited edition of 2,000, but then again Swallow's
_Blowback_ was too and it's not that hard to find.

Thanks for the info,
Jake

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:18:29 PST
From: "Martin A. HOYT" (MAHOYT@UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: sycophant list (lisa germano list) is ALIVE at last (


        What is L.G. like? That's one of those 4ad artists of which I never
>would have heard if I hadn't subscribed to this list, like HNIA, Air
>Miami, and Kendra Smith. I haven't heard a single song of any of those
>artists, although I intend to get some HNIA eventually.

I have only heard "Geek the Girl"  by L.G., but I really like that album.
My real intention, however, is to implore you to RUN out this weekend and get
some HNIA.  They are absolutely, totally great.  (I'll avoid any further
Warren Defever is godhead comments to spare unbelievers).  Get either
"Livonia" or "Home is in Your Head" to start.  Both are distributed by
Rykodisc is the U.S., and the domestic "Livonia" contains an extra track
while HIIYH contains the equally great "Dirteaters" EP.  Their last release
"Mouth by Mouth" is more bass+drums oriented than the first two albums, but
it too is fantastic.  If you decided to get MbM, find the import (available
by mail order from 4AD).  The import has some samples and a track (The
Homesick Waltz) not found on the 4AD/Warner version.  If you listen to 4AD
because of CT, DCD, and TMC, you'll probably love HNIA.

Martin
mahoyt@uci.edu

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:41:12 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: King of Sweet


Yeah, but "King of Sweet" is a keeper. I'm not that surprised that
"Blowback" is hard to find, even though I liked it myself. I have
not seen a single copy of King of Sweet since I bought my copy on
May 17, 1994, and I have been looking.

Mike
iceblink


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:50:25 -0400
From: "[spiral]" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: King of Sweet


On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, Jake Reichert wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone knows the availability of HNIA's _King of Sweet_.

good luck. i always pick up extra copies when
i se them but other than that i think that
you wont find it.. :( uless some collektor skum
has a stash and has a soft heart... ood uck.

                ---> [spiral]
                99lear@lab.cc.wmich.edu

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:49:59 -0700
From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM)
Subject: Re: The End Of 4AD


Renee Castro wrote:
>Or maybe the name of this list could be changed to "If it's not dreamy,
>ethereal, or depressing we hate it" I don't think 4AD has changed. It's your
>tatse in music that hasn't changed. The 4AD I've been following for the past
>10 years has always put out a variety of music.

4AD used to put out a variety of _good_ music, whatever its sound, enough
so that the label was practically a seal of quality. I imagine many
old-time listeners used to regularly buy new and unknown things just
because they were on 4AD. I would never have considered buying any
Bulgarian folk music otherwise...
And I suspect most of us listen to considerable amounts of music that's
not "dreamy, ethereal or depressing". Myself I could list Elastica,
Smashing Pumpkins, Versus, Hole, Vivaldi, [early] XTC, [early] Talking
Heads, Game Theory ... even on 4AD I could mention the Pixies and the
[early] Breeders.
It does sound as though some people here think that 4AD can only recover
by going back to its roots. I don't agree, although that would be one
option. 4AD went through some major changes in '86-'87, signing bands
like Throwing Muses and the Pixies, without any decline in quality.

Gil Gershman writes:
>Kevin Shields is a musician? I thought he was a doped out taxi driver and
>occasional remixer...

Get that tongue out of your cheek, Gil! Anyway, we all know it's Deb
who's driving taxis.

>Innocence Mission - see 'Sundays'... or, better yet, don't.

!Boing! I won't take that affront lying down. They do have some notable
influences on their sound (Cocteau Twins, Sundays, 10K Maniacs) but who
doesn't? Certainly not Swallow or lovesliescrushing. And their songs are
just so incredibly well done -- especially the lyrics, which considered
on their own as poetry have no equal in current music that I know of.

--Jens

--Jens Alfke
  jens@inow.com

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:19:07 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: King of Sweet


Jake says:
>I was wondering if anyone knows the availability of HNIA's _King of Sweet_.
>I know that it was a limited edition of 2,000, but then again Swallow's
>_Blowback_ was too and it's not that hard to find.

        I haven't seen it at all lately.  It's probably rather hard to find
NOW but wasn't all THAT hard to find at first.  Although 2000 seems awefully
small for the number of people who seem to have them, we must conclude that
the discs seemed to find their way to the people who wanted them badly
enough.  Please, let's not all announce our KOS numba's again--i think we've
established that there actually were 2000 without any verified repeats.

-cz

edition of say 2000 in order to get more people to buy them, but actually
press 6000 (3 of each number) and send the duplicates to places far from
each other (preferably different conitinents).  And even if they did get
caught they could just blame those pesky bootleggers.

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:09:39 -0700
From: Matthew Polder (mpolder@SUN1.PS.UCI.EDU)
Subject: the end of 4AD ?


I think I'd have to agree with a lot of what is being said, though to be
honest I haven't heard any of the new bands (Scheer, the Amps, Mojave3,
other...) so I don't know about the really new stuff. I still think
though that 4AD puts out some of the best music available, or at least
has been doing so. I play to death all my RHP, Cocteau, DCD, UVS, TWP,
etc and some times force myself not to listen to "Down Colorful Hill"
since I like it so much (though I must confess I listened to the first
three tracks this morning. Wow.)

But after going to the Lisa Gerrard show Wednesday night I am still
convinced that their is no better label overall. Sure there are lots of
good bands out there on other labels depending on your taste, but how
often can you go to a show featuring a medley of songs arranged for the
Yan Ching and lute (or whatever it was Robert Perry was playing) that
just left you breathless. That and 4AD still has the coolest artwork
around. My office at school is adorned with various paraphenilia and I
just added a promo poster from the Gerrard tour. Dang it looks cool.

By the way, did somebody say TWP defected? Is this a rumor? Facts
appreciated, gossip tolerated.

Rambling to avoid homework,

matthew


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:37:37 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: the end of 4AD ?


By the way, did somebody say TWP defected? Is this a rumor? Facts
appreciated, gossip tolerated.

------------------


Yup. The Wolfgang Press and 4AD "parted amicably" (in the oft used
terminology of the record industry when they prefer not to discuss
the details).

There's no telling WHY, though. Someone on the list circulated some
rumour that they (TWP) had gone on some sort of music shopping spree,
spending thousands of dollars/pounds and charged the lot to 4AD. 4AD,
not being very happy about that, canned them. Who KNOWS how true
THAT is...

I think it would be criminal for some major not to pick them up
now, though. They're one band who've been underrated for far too
long, and have a lot of potential to really make it with a little
bit more support. That's just IMO. I read an article 'round the
time Queer was released, where Andrew Gray had mentioned how utterly
BROKE they were, and how it was getting harder to keep going with
the band when it seems like you're not getting anywhere. That's
too bad, honestly, 'cause I thought Queer and Funky Little Demons
were brilliant.  Their earlier work is a bit less accessible to
many, but I like it, especially "The Legendary Wolfgang Press and
Other Tall Stories" and "Standing Up Straight".  Birdwood Cage
never really turned me on (I don't listen to it much, though), and
I have yet to hear The Burden of Mules, since I have it on vinyl
and don't have a turntable...*sigh*.

Mike
iceblink@delphi.com

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:15:54 -0800
From: ryan@LEONARDO.NET
Subject: Mojave 3 Cd is here


I was in my local store here in Los Angeles, Arons, impatiently looking for
the new Cocteau/Seefeel Otherness EP (which is not out yet here!), but I
happily stumbled upon the Mojave 3 CD in the imports section (of course at
import price!).  WOW, this is reaallly good, and this is coming from a
person who loves the sorta post-ambient-techno direction of Slowdive's 5EP
and Pygmalion, and I thought that I wouldn't like this more mellow
acousticy-minimal-effects sound of Mojave.  Well, my fears were for
nothing; it's great and would rank it as one of the best CD's I got this
year, right bellow Pygmalion perhaps.

It's all very melodic and with hardly any of the effects on the vocals and
guitars that we've come to expect from them (who posted that there's lots
of echo on Rachel's voice?  You're absolutely wrong!).  Mercy, the last
song, is my favorite and is certainly the most intense and should please
any previous fan who liked their older sound. Kind of reminds me of a
stripped down version of the last song on Just For a Day.


Take Care,
Ryan

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:40:55 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Take the "End of 4AD" challenge!


The end of 4AD?  I don't think so ...

        It may be popular to be a cynic and say "The end of 4AD is at hand"
but i think that it's more a psychologic phenomenon.  Let me explain.  Most
of us had a period in which 4AD existed but we didn't already own everything
they put out (there may be a few exceptions and i'd like to hear from them).
 The point is that when you first get into 4AD as a label (not just one band
or two on the label) then you get introduced to all sorts of new bands too.
My initial introduction was through Cocteau Twins (one of the early EP's)
then on to Lonely is an Eyesore then points as disparate as Voix Bulgares
and Bauhaus.  The concept of a "4AD sound" is as much of a farce then as
ever (Cf. Matt Johnson, Bulgarian Choir, Bauhaus, Modern English, MARS).
But what made 4AD *seem* so much greater then is that there were already a
stockpile of bands and albums which were thrust upon me all of a sudden.
Many of them were great, some were mediocre, and a few just sucked IMO (can
anyone say *pump up the volume*).
        I thought "the end of 4AD is at hand" around 1989-1991.  The Cocteau
Twins had left, Throwing Muses were starting to sound, well, worse,  some of
the new acts weren't *my thing*, etc...   but it wasn't any of these things
that were the more important reasons that i felt this way.  The more
important reason was that i was buying and enjoying less *new-to-me* music
per year than i had in the previous years.  But when i look back *now* at
some of the things that were released near then (forgive me, i'm at work:
Blood, Livonia, Pale Saints, Lush, DCD) i realize that i was caught in this
mindset that had very little to do with the general "quality of 4AD."
        So here's my challenge:  list all the albums you consider "good
enough" by release date and divide them up in 2 or 3 year sections (be
consistent).  Don't be picky about excellent vs. good vs. somewhat good
since that changes depending on too many factors.  "Good enough" is good
enough to listen to pretty often and *enjoy*.  I listened to HNIA's Livonia
pretty often but i wouldn't have listed it as *excellent* then--now i do
consider it excellent.
        I think that although there have been several releases by 4AD that i
consider *so-so* lately there have also been several very good albums.  I'll
go home and do this myself and see how it turns out BUT i'm willing to bet
that this latest 3 years has a comparable number of "good enough" releases
compared to the previous 3 year periods.

-cz


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 17:40:05 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here


Okay, so what's the art work like?  I've only been able to find
and ugly orange advance promo CD with no artwork!  Someone said
the sleeve art is lovely...

Yeah, I must admit that Mojave3 are one of the better 4AD bands of late.
Which is sorta funny when you consider that, to me anyway, when they
were Slowdive they were one of the better 4AD-ish bands that were NOT
on the label.

"Ask Me Tomorrow" is utterly gorgeous. It's SO subtle, gentle, emotional,
sincere -- all that.  I don't know how others who've heard it feel
about the lyrics, but I think they're perfect. I like sentimentality...

"...take another shot and think about you,
 'cause a bottle of wine is all I have to hold.
 And I think it's all I've got...
 You've taken all I've got...
 And I'm sorry to hold your hand,
 But I miss you and your life..."

("Tomorrow's Taken"; sung by Rachel)

So anyway...again -- for those who've listened to the record -- have you
noticed how in some songs Neil's singing is muted, so that you can still
hear it, only EVER SO FAINTLY in the background, while he's strumming an
acoustic guitar that's also obviously muted. It's kinda weird.  In some
cases, he's WAY out of tune, as well, which may be why they muted it...
who knows. But it gives the album a more raw feeling, in the sense that
it's almost as if it were recorded over the period of a few days in
someone's house or something, which may be what they did...I don't have
proper sleeve notes, so I can't say for sure.


Mike
iceblink@delphi.com

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:50:11 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: we broke the 400 barrier!


>Your message  dated Sat, 28 Oct  1995 16:40:55 -0500 with  subject "Take the
>"End of 4AD" challenge!" has been successfully distributed to the 4AD-L list
>(407 recipients).

Wow, for a long time we were hovering around 360-390 ppl on this list but we
finally broke the 400 person barrier.  Does this represent an increased
interest in our "dying" label  (see message above) OR is this simply an
increase in the newbie population that have just found out about mailing
lists (ours in particular)?

That's yours to decide,
-cz

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:58:56 -0800
From: ryan@LEONARDO.NET
Subject: The End of 4AD


Renee Castro  wrote:
>Or maybe the name of this list could be changed to "If it's not dreamy,
>ethereal, or depressing we hate it" I don't think 4AD has changed. It's your
>tatse in music that hasn't changed. The 4AD I've been following for the past
>10 years has always put out a variety of music.

Ummm, I hate to break it to you but it is fact the 4AD has indeed changed!
Those on both sides of this 'End of 4AD' debate will at least agree on this
basic point.  Sure my tastes have changed (whose haven't in 10 years?), but
I thought I remember even old Ivo saying that his tates have changed, and
this is refelcted in the kind of music that 4AD has been concentrating on
in say the past 5 or 6 years or so.  Also, 4AD is major label now (the WEA
group of lables), so that too has an effect, to further contrast their
younger days as solely a UK indie label.

Also, sorry to be a nitpick on your logic that I quoted above, but it
doesn't make any sense.  If, as you say:
1. Us 4ad bashers' "tastes in music have NOT changed"
 AND that
2."4ad has NOT changed",
Then it follows that NOTHING has changed and thus we all should still love
4ad.

Take Care,
Ryan

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:58:17 -0700
From: snowangel k-j (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here


> I was in my local store here in Los Angeles, Arons, impatiently looking for
> the new Cocteau/Seefeel Otherness EP (which is not out yet here!), but I
> happily stumbled upon the Mojave 3 CD in the imports section (of course at
> import price!).

  funny...i wasdoing the same thing with jOHN last night. in fact, we
  closed the darn place!!!! i must say, it pays off to go to Aron's
  near closing..it's just so much nicer...quiet...you can sift through
  the used discs without having to fight for elbow room with the people
  crowded next to you...
  mojave 3 actually called out to jOHN from across the store...or so
  i like to believe. but, he ignored the temptation and the import price.
  he's hoping it will come out domestic. so..will it?
  we wound up with the Kids soundtrack {mine}, air miami's 'me me me'
  {again, mine}, a $4 copy of the minxus album on too pure {i found it for
  j}, and a polvo disc j was talked into getting by some kid from SF
  who we met when we tried to go see the darn swirlies...
  we're making that attempt again tonight....
  i didn't buy mojave because i already have a dub from e. it's lovely
  and i adore it, but i can hold off on having the cd...which is a
  purrty thing, i must say.

  music gear and pixie stix and don't forget to set yer clocks back 2nite,
  k-j


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:49:25 -0700
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: A little announcement...


Although I've explained it many times, and in pretty great detail, there
still seems to be too much confusion regarding my alias.  Too many people
have confused me, a measly little college kid, with Ivo Watts-Russell,
4AD founder and all-around guru (who, for the record, I have never
pretended to be, nor was I even aware of when I first chose my alias 3
years ago).  For that reason, and other reasons which I don't want to
discuss, I've decided to rescind the alias of Ivo (pronounced Eee-voh,
not Eye-voh, but that's a moot point now) and leave the three letter name
to those who have much more influence than myself.

Now I need to find another alias.... how about O+> ???

Is that one being used by anyone...?


The dumb kid formerly known as Eeevo.

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:02:15 -0700
From: "J Beswick (c.l.g.e.)" (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: The End of 4AD, or How to Be A Zillionaire...


I have to agree with the idea that the entire face of the music scene is
changing, therefore what is considered 'cutting edge' now is very
different than what it was in the 80s.  I keep reading in magazines
everywhere how 'folk-rock' is the new big thing in mainstream pop music.
Well, ok, but 4AD's been putting out that kind of music for a couple of
years now.  Artists like Tarnation, RHP, Heidi Berry and such are showing
such banal rip-offs like Hootie and the Blowfish and Blues Traveler how
it's really done.   4AD still IS the cutting edge of music.  This isn't
the 80s anymore.  NOTHING in music sounds like the 80s.  Hell, even in
the early 90s, 4AD bands were ahead of their time.  Lush and Spirea X had
that shoegaze-y sound down best...their critical praise with mediocre
sales paved the way for bands like My Bloody Valentine and Medicine to
enjoy the success they have had.  Maybe it's not 4AD that's gone astray,
but the music scene altogether.

I mean, seriously, would you REALLY like 4AD if it was just pumping out
goth music (which was pronounced dead years ago) for 15 years straight?
Or is it better that 4AD can still keep a step ahead of the rest of them
and not have to resort to the Nirvana/Candlebox/Pearl Jam/Green
Day/Presidents of the USA/Silverchair/etc type of crap that you hear
everywhere all the time?


By the way... Everyone has high hopes for Mojave (3), who are rightfully
deserving of such anticipation...but just WAIT until you hear something
new from Lisa Germano... WOW WOW WOW.....


Strick9

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 19:33:27 -0500
From: JEHEINDL@AMHERST.EDU
Subject: Re: A little announcement...


How about v23?


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:11:35 -0400
From: Joey (jbriante@UOGUELPH.CA)
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here


Everybody in Canada listen up! Mojave 3 is being released domestically on
wednesday nov 1.!!!! So no need to pay import prices.


joey

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:20:26 -0400
From: Matt Galloway (BIKECART@AOL.COM)
Subject: Gerrard Biography


I am looking for a copy of the Lisa Gerrard biography.  Has anyone seen it?
Where could I get a copy?

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:16:44 -0400
From: Initialboy@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Mojave 3 Cd is here


Just got my copy from overseas today (along w/ Sarah 100, and a binge at the
local Best Buy turned up the new Chemical Brothers album as well as the new
Stephen Duffy disc, but that's a whole 'nother story), and boy does this
album remind me of 'She Hangs Brightly' by Mazzy Star (not necessarily a bad
thing, mind you) with a big hint of the first two Cowboy Junkies albums.
 After the scheer [sic] genius that was 'Pygmalion,' 'Ask Me Tomorrow' seems
quite the stylistic step backwards, but it sounds so smoooooooove, it's
enough to... um, make one shoot smack... um, nope, too fashionable.  But erm,
anyway, this is the sort of album you could easily listen to whilst driving
home from a rave at five in the morning or from yr significant other's after
being dumped or something.

Totally unsolicited $0.02, of course, but just thought I'd share this with
y'all.

Luuurv,


hk

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:13:42 +1100
From: Donald Chin (donaldc@NETSPACE.NET.AU)
Subject: St Etienne fan club address & Daho split single


Hi

Someone wanted the address of the St Etienne fan club, Lovers Unite.

It is...
Lovers Unite
Heavenly
72 Wardour St
London W1V 3HP
UK

The cost of joining is GBP5 for the UK, GBP7 for EEC and GBP8 everywhere else.

Anyone know where I can get a copy of the split single St Etienne did with
the French singer Etienne Daho?

Cheers

Donald

--..........
Donald Chin ..........  
--..........         "Lost somewhere in Australia..."

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:13:46 +1100
From: Donald Chin (donaldc@NETSPACE.NET.AU)
Subject: Re: an mbv question (someone please take pity on me and answer)


Hi

>Can someone please telll me if sunny sundae smile by my bloodied
>valentines is any good?  I would really like to know and surely there are
>others out there who have wondered the same.  everybody knows the old
>stuff is supposed to be awful.  kevin says it himself.  i mean the '85
>stuff.  but sss is from '87 i think.  sorry, too tired to check.  i only
>got 2 hours of sleep.  anyway, I personally think ecstacy and wine is
>very entertaining.  just messy pop songs but good ones i think.  and the
>cd i have says 1987 so what i want to know is does sunny sundae smile
>sound anything like ecstacy and wine?  If i find out it doesn't then i

It is different from MBV's later material, but no less great. How can I
describe it - bubblegum pop. Think of Jesus And Mary Chain circa
Pyschocandy! A definite must. IMHO it is worth anything to get. But I am
biased.

Cheers

Donald

--..........
Donald Chin ..........  
--..........         "Lost somewhere in Australia..."

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:31:38 -0400
From: Matt Galloway (BIKECART@AOL.COM)
Subject: info request


Can someone tell me how I can retrieve the 4ad Catalog?  I'm looking for the
Lisa Gerrard biography advertised in th Web site. (4)BC.

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:42:52 -0500
From: Steven Venn (svenn@INFORAMP.NET)
Subject: Re: A little announcement...


Hey guys:

I am thinking of setting up an IRC group for 4AD called of all things #4AD
on IRC network
on the undernet.org. Let me know if you are interested in this.

Steve



The Truth is out there.


Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:58:51 -0400
From: Joey (jbriante@UOGUELPH.CA)
Subject: mojave 3: ask me tommorrow


Mojave 3's disc "Ask me Tommorow" is out on wed. nov. 1, in Canada. This
is a domestic release!!!! Can you believe a release date actually got
pushed forward!!!! I don't know about US release date though.


joey


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 10-28-1995