4ad-l Mail for 10-10-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: the many facets of steve hill
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:29:59 -0700
From: einexile the meek ([email protected])
Subject: 4AD<----the name
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 02:38:44 -0400
From: Hement Gopal ([email protected])
Subject: deadline for the little auction
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:40:06 -0700
From: lushmuse ([email protected])
Subject: The Amps
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:56:28 +0100
From: Andrew Norman ([email protected])
Subject: Re: rhp reasons for leaving 4ad
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:54:24 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Amps/Scheer
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:23:31 +0100
From: "'H'y" ([email protected])
Subject: DCD do 'Album'
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:29:05 PDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: someone know spiral's address?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:57:33 -0700
From: einexile the meek ([email protected])
Subject: Re: DCD do 'Album'
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 04:03:25 -0700
From: einexile the meek ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Axis...4AD...and The Doom Generation
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:20:28 +0100
From: Jon Kvebaek ([email protected])
Subject: DCD do "Album"
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 04:48:22 PDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Lisa Gerrard in NYC
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:53:29 -0400
From: "Thinking no thing will limited-self unlimit."
Subject: Re: Catherine Wheel
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:00:35 -0700
From: Sharkless girl a/k/a Kayleigh ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:14:00 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:10:07 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: sugarlift?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:23:06 -0400
From: lorelei tremolor ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Amps/Scheer
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:51:22 CDT
From: Steven W Hill ([email protected])
Subject: Re: hnia (?)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:20:32 -0400
From: Roy Burns ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Axis...4AD...and The Doom Generation
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:18:28 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:42:59 -0500
From: cz ([email protected])
Subject: Guernica/Amps-olutely crap/Scheer madness
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:22:32 -0400
From: Phil Stout ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Tarnation
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:24:10 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:43:24 +0100
From: Andrew Norman ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:36:25 -0400
From: Heather Simas ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:30:12 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: DCD platinum?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:11:32 -0500
From: Martin Wagner ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:55:57 CDT
From: "Kent J. Vanderwaal" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:55:07 -0500
From: eric ([email protected])
Subject: Re: DCD do 'Album'
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:21:08 -0600
From: mesocyclone ([email protected])
Subject: Seeking Big Hat and Tel Basta
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:13:24 -0500
From: Darryl Stephen Roy ([email protected])
Subject: Re: AXIS-->4AD
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:04:46 -0700
From: Aaron Thorne ([email protected])
Subject: Elysium tour underway
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:15:07 -0700
From: Brant Dewdrops ([email protected])
Subject: albums?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:22:35 -0500
From: eric ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:31:11 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:24:34 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: wax and wane remix
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:01:13 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: DCD platinum?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:35:32 -0400
From: Roy Burns (RB[email protected])
Subject: Re: FS: THE THE 7"
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:15:32 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Quit It!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:36:39 -0400
From: Phil Stout ([email protected])
Subject: Lisa in NYC interview
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:01:41 -0400
From: Michael Franz ([email protected])
Subject: Independent Projects (IPR) website
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:47:52 -0700
From: Brandon Capps ([email protected])
Subject: Fishies Going To Heaven Festival update
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:14:31 -0700
From: Brandon Capps ([email protected])
Subject: Re: items for sale
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:36:20 -0700
From: Warren Harris ([email protected])
Subject: Re: items for sale
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:35:23 -0700
From: Warren Harris ([email protected])
Subject: NDN:Re: DCD platinum?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:50:20 EST
From: Network Manager ([email protected])
Subject: I need 4ad's LA phone number please!!!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:48:32 -0500
From: Steven Szaks ([email protected])
Subject: Re: FS: THE THE 7"
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:24:00 EST
From: "Ellens, Harm" ([email protected])
Subject: AFGTH rides offered
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:59:17 -0700
From: Brant Dewdrops ([email protected])
Subject: 4ad on the cheap in nyc
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:44:59 -0400
From: Alex Wolfson ([email protected])
Subject: AM I RESPONSIBLE?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:36:39 -0400
From: redacted ([email protected])

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:29:59 -0700
From: einexile the meek ([email protected])
Subject: the many facets of steve hill

On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Steve Hill wrote:

> > I think if you read John's point, your tape, while probably an excellent
> > collection, is not an "album".  Think about taking chapters from a the
> > great novels in history, or even by the same author.  The result is not a
> > new Novel, but a compilation.
>
> I'm sorry I left out the smiley. I was being facetious, but I thought it was
> obvious.
> -shill

Don't you mean, "I'm sorry I left out the smiley. :-)" ??

Sheesh. Some people.


  einexile, king of foul

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 02:38:44 -0400
From: Hement Gopal ([email protected])
Subject: 4AD<----the name

my brother says that the lable name stands for :-

(4) (A)rseholes in (D)istress

my brother's an arsehole too...but judging from what IWR is pushing
out these days (years) my brother could be onto something!!!

the piss and vinegar department
hems


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:40:06 -0700
From: lushmuse ([email protected])
Subject: deadline for the little auction

hi everyone!

i forgot to post the deadline for the little auction i'm having so i'll
end it on october 17th, with bairmiami's auction end date.

so far...
1.cocteau twins: bluebeard 1-track promo
2.cocteau twins: summerhead 1-track promo $5
3.cocteau twins: twinlights advance cassette
4.alvin lives (in leeds) anti poll tax compilation (w/ lush's "chirpy
chirpy cheep cheep", robyn hitchcock's "kung fu fighting") $25

thanks again to all of those who have bidded and are bidding...sorry to
those who hate auctions and have to see this.

laters!

p.s.  any help on finding the "12 inch '87 anthology" and the "13 year
itch" cds would be greatly appreciated...trade perhaps??!!

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:56:28 +0100
From: Andrew Norman ([email protected])
Subject: The Amps

"One pound 99", I thought, "I haven't seen a 4AD release that cheap for
ages".  The Amps single has only got three songs on it, and weighs in at
a shade under six minutes in total.  I wouldn't mind if it contained
three short bursts of superb punk rock heaven, but what it actually
contains is three short bursts of amateurish punk rock hell.  If I
didn't know Kim Deal's history I'd say that Ivo probably signed the Amps
in a fit of madness after seeing them play in a bar somewhere - in fact
I think they would get bottled off in most bars, on this evidence.
Awful, awful stuff.  "Tipp City", "Like a Briar" (a cover), and the demo
which was on the FTWW sampler, if anyone cares.  Did she really write
"Gigantic"?

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // [email protected] // 10/10/95
On my walkman this morning : Can - Peel sessions
Upon the straits; - on the French coast the light

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:54:24 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: rhp reasons for leaving 4ad

On Fri, 6 Oct 1995 [email protected] wrote:

>
> This really upsets me.  So now 4ad is infringing on artistic integrity?!
>  They're turning more and more into a Soulless Megalith Record Company every
> year.  Gee, didn't Lisa Germano leave Capitol because of shit like this?
>
No, Lisa Germano left Capitol because her album got ZERO publicity and
they treated her like crap.


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:23:31 +0100
From: "'H'y" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Amps/Scheer

I listened to both these again yesterday and I still maintain they suck.

I agree Mr. Norman about how bad The Amps are. If IWR is signing bands
like these surely he could sign my band. It seems if Ms. Deal picked her
three favourite chords, had a few beers with some friends, had a jam,
sent a tape to Ivo and got a record contract. There's just no content in
the songs. I bet it took V23 longer to do the artwork than it did to record.

 As for Scheer, Skunk Anansie seem to be doing the same sort of
thing - heavy rock with a female singer - but better. Except Scheer have got
Harriet 'Sunday' on vocals.

The Guernica label offshoot would be a more appropriate means to release
these. Give them a one record deal and wait and see if there's any
interest in them.

So Red House Painters have now left 4ad. So how long before the other
main-stays of the label will go - we've lost TWP, Frank Black, Cocteaus a
few years back. Brendan Perry's solo stuff was rejected, tarnation have
split already. Who's next, Belly? Lush?

PS If I've got a photograph ALBUM with a collection of photos taken over
many years, of many different places, subjects then this isn't really an
album its merely a collection of photographs according to  you.

'H'y

Stockholm Environment Institute at York




Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:29:05 PDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: DCD do 'Album'

A while back somebody posted Lisa's explanation for the Mirror Pool
(why, who etc.). On reading this she mentioned that her and Mr Perry had
released eight albums together. A quick glance through the releases means
that she counts "A passage in Time" as an album (which only had two new songs).

I am going to send her a copy of the Pink Opague and see it she calls it
an album or not. And Nick Cave will receive "Hits" and be asked for his
opinion. Then this issue will be solved. And there will be world peace. And pigs
will fly (only in the police helicopter). etc. etc.

blahblahblahmumblemumble
Chris


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:57:33 -0700
From: einexile the meek ([email protected])
Subject: someone know spiral's address?

His e-mail address. Jef Lear's, that is. I cleaned out my folders and
there's not a trace of it anywhere and I wanted to fire off a message...

Thanks. Sorry for bugging the list with this.

But you know you love it.


 e

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 04:03:25 -0700
From: einexile the meek ([email protected])
Subject: Re: DCD do 'Album'

On Tue, 10 Oct 1995 [email protected] wrote:

> A while back somebody posted Lisa's explanation for the Mirror Pool
> (why, who etc.). On reading this she mentioned that her and Mr Perry had
> released eight albums together. A quick glance through the releases means
> that she counts "A passage in Time" as an album (which only had two new songs)


Possibly she meant Garden of the Arcane Delights?

It is also quite possible that she cannot count, or doesn't believe in
our cold, rigid Western linear numerical system. :)


 einexile, pro-oj and in your face!

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:20:28 +0100
From: Jon Kvebaek ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Axis...4AD...and The Doom Generation

On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 [email protected] wrote:

> ...but I heard 4AD was also a word play on "for a day"

So that's how slowdive got singned then...released Just For A Day as a
tribute to 4AD. I think I'm wasting lots of time these days. It's been
like this ever since I was abducted.

On another note (and this has probably been said on the list before) -
what's the Warren <-> Tarnation connection?

Jon Kvebaek 

"Listen to us. We are serving the The Garden of Delights Immortality
Cosmic Conciousness The Best Ever In Drug Kicks. And love love love in
slop buckets. How does that sound to you boys?"
                                - William S. Burroughs, 'Nova Express'


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 04:48:22 PDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: DCD do "Album"

Einexile the meek remarks:

>Possibly she meant Garden of the Arcane Delights?

>It is also quite possible that she cannot count, or doesn't believe in
>our cold, rigid Western linear numerical system. :)

1) DCD  2) Within the realm... 3) Spleen.. 4)Serpent's 5) Aeion 6)Toward the wit
in
7) Into the labyrynth 8) A passage in time
and 4/10 for 9)Garden of Arcane..

So if she counts Garden as an album, we can forgive her for not counting A Passa
e..
But lashes for the Garden misclassification. If she realises that Garden is an E
 then
she had to be calling a Passage an album. Hence lashes for that. Or like e says,
she can't
count - lashes to the Australian? education system.

Lashings all round please (with bits of glass and iron on the tail)
As Claus Larsen says "strap me down"

Chris, shivering in painful anticipation


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:53:29 -0400
From: "Thinking no thing will limited-self unlimit."
Subject: Lisa Gerrard in NYC

well, i actually liked her performance, though i must agree it did not differ
        much from her cd.  there were some solo performances by the band
        members (ronan o snodaigh did a excellent job in his drum solo!  he
        is fun to watch).
i loved the poetry reading!  how else could u open a show like that?  there
        was no opening band that could prepare u better (well, maybe dcd
        could *smile*) for her show than some good ol' dark poetry.  B->
hey, has anyone noticed that she does mention Brendan in the show program?
        "A very special thanks to Brendan Perry and Nanette Gerrard."  for
        those who did not see a thank-you Brendan in the cd, there u go.  :)

Joherius

        "And from this springs the extraordinary question:  Did the
        Egyptians know about electricity?"
                - Peter Kolosimo, Terra senza tempo, Milan, Sugar, 1964, p. 111


On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, section25 wrote:

> Sean Kline  wrote...
>
> > Sorry If I deflate any expectations of those awaiting Lisa Gerrard,
> > but her show in Boston this past Thursday night was very underwhelming.
> > The opening monologue by a band member was ridiculous and started the
> > show off flat. Her new material from the Mirror Pool just doesn't
> > impress live, as all the orchestral music to support it is sampled or
> > generated on Keyboard.
>
> > I would be interested to hear from others who attended the show.
>
> I would have to agree that I wasn't "blown away" by her performance.  I
> thought it was good and all, but it seemed a little too close to the CD
> to be particularly thrilling.  I felt as if I was listening to her album
> in a big room with lots of other people.
>
> Oh, and the person doing the poetry reading was Mark Ellis of Elijah's
> Mantle, I believe.
>
> a m o  p r o b o s,
> s25.
>


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:00:35 -0700
From: Sharkless girl a/k/a Kayleigh ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Catherine Wheel

You wrote: (edited)
>
>For UK listers,
>really expecting anything great really - just curious about TD
>contribution and also to see how grunge CW have gone.
>'H'y
>
>'H' Cambridge
>
>Stockholm Environment Institute at York
>University of York, York, Uk.
>
>
so, i'm listening to CW Ferment and Chrome.  I really don't understand
why people are saying CW has gone grunge...a semantic arguement i fear.
 Listen to those releases again, some pretty hard bass lines, agressive
guitar, alternate passages between mellow and brain blowing.  The only
aspect ofshoegazing, are the vocals at times (IMNSHO).  I hope the
"grunge" label is only grabbing for words which are difficult at times
to find when describing music--ask any reviewer.  Grunge was coined to
describe Nirvana and the Seattle scene, much to their dismay actually.
It is yet another marketing term like alternative has become.
So, enlighten me, I want the UK perspective on this because as usual, I
am confused.

sincere but befuddled,
euthelene


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:14:00 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM

>>Well, they didn't actually DO it, it was put together by 4AD and
Relativity ...<<

Who's responsible for remixing "Wax and Wane" then?  And I insist
that the version of "Aikea-Guinea" on The Pink Opaque is WAAAAAY
better than the one on the original EP (which indicates that it,
too, was remixed).

Mike
[email protected]

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:10:07 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?

Personally, I hate the '3'. I think I would have forgiven them had they
chosen to use the dreaded "UK" suffix (the other "mojave" is American,
right?) because that's easier to ignore.  Or they could even have
chosen "THE Mojave" (as in "THE Verve"), and I could have ignored the
'THE', just like I did with Verve. Not to mention that 'Mojave UK' and
'The Mojave' are, to me, more aesthetically pleasing to look at than
'Mojave 3'.

At any rate, it doesn't matter. The album is absolutely amazing, and
I can't stop listening to it. "Love Songs On The Radio", "Tomorrow's
Taken", and "Where Is The Love", and "Pictures" are gorgeous...

Mike
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:23:06 -0400
From: lorelei tremolor ([email protected])
Subject: Re: sugarlift?

On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, eric wrote:

> quite some time ago i sent money to a fanzine called sugarlift to get a copy
> of an interview with ian masters.  never heard from the zine though.  is
> anyone affiliated with that zine on this list, perhaps?  i don't care so
> much 'bout the two bucks, but i'd like to see the interview.

hey eric

i'm sorry you haven't gotten the zine yet...the editor is away at school
right now, so perhaps that's why he hasn't got around to sending it out-
he's usually extremely prompt, putting his zines out every three weeks or
so... anyway here is his address and perhaps you can see if you sent it
to the correct place or not...

                       nicholas deVilliers
                       71 Pine Street
                       Florence MA 01060

send me your address so next time i talk to nick deVilliers (also artist
of the latest spoonfed hybrid 7" sleeve) i can tell him about you.  also,
anyone else who is waiting for a LIFT, please send me your names & addies
too.  merci...

lorraine

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:51:22 CDT
From: Steven W Hill ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Amps/Scheer

              "H'y" at Oct 10, 95 10:23 am

> I listened to both these again yesterday and I still maintain they suck.
>
> I agree Mr. Norman about how bad The Amps are. If IWR is signing bands
> like these surely he could sign my band. It seems if Ms. Deal picked her
> three favourite chords, had a few beers with some friends, had a jam,
> sent a tape to Ivo and got a record contract. There's just no content in
> the songs. I bet it took V23 longer to do the artwork than it did to record.

Sounds like it'll be a big hit on American radio  :-(
-shill

--
[][]  [][] Steve Hill, Network Communications Specialist, 708-925-6273
[]  []  [] Harper College, 1200 W Algonquin Rd, Palatine IL 60067-7398
           [email protected]://www.harper.cc.il.us----
[]  []  []                    "Mostly harmless."
[][]  [][]       personal:(http://www.idis.com/shill/index.htm)


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:20:32 -0400
From: Roy Burns ([email protected])
Subject: Re: hnia (?)

What is this?

>> 'hnia sings man on the silver mountain' is not
really to die for, but it's a nice mix.  all of the songs on it are
available on 'livonia' and 'home is in your head,' but hey, i like to
collect things, so that's why i bought my copy.<<

Gracias,

Ry


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:18:28 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Axis...4AD...and The Doom Generation

For anyone in the LA area, the Nuart on Santa Monica Blvd will start
showing The Doom Generation week after next.

I'll be going one day...if anyone wants to set up a group trip or
sumthin, email me.

Ivo

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:42:59 -0500
From: cz ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM

>>>Well, they didn't actually DO it, it was put together by 4AD and
>Relativity ...<<
>
>Who's responsible for remixing "Wax and Wane" then?  And I insist
>that the version of "Aikea-Guinea" on The Pink Opaque is WAAAAAY
>better than the one on the original EP (which indicates that it,
>too, was remixed).

I think you're missing the point.  The point is that a *compilation*, even
if it has a few remixed versions and even a few more songs will never be an
album.  If an author releases a book that is a compilation of the best
stories and exerpts from previous novels does this new book count as another
novel?  No.  Otherwise i could just say that the boxed set is my favorite
album.  Someone tried to use subtlety and humor to point this out, others
have come right out and said it but why are you so reluctant to admit that
this is NOT an album?  It may be your favorite CT release but it is NOT what
is commonly referred to as an "album".

-cz


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:22:32 -0400
From: Phil Stout ([email protected])
Subject: Guernica/Amps-olutely crap/Scheer madness

>>we've lost TWP, Frank Black, Cocteaus a
few years back. Brendan Perry's solo stuff was rejected, tarnation have
split already. Who's next, Belly? Lush?<<

For the record, UVS, RHP, Shallow, etc., etc. are all gone.

Surely Brendan Perry's solo stuff or the new RHP couldn't have been worse
than that Amps single or even Lisa Gerrard's LP (uninspired). His acoustic
tunes on "Toward the Within" alone are better than that album.

Why did 4AD let the Spoonfeds get away (brilliance).

And the story on Frank Black, TWP, and Brendan Perry? Anyone?

Also, in reference to the Guernica thing. That label isn't a farm label, but
a label releasing music in the U.K. only that is licensed elsewhere in the
world (with the exception of Insides). Releases are usually one-offs (again,
with the exception of Insides).

4AD still, to my knowledge, still operates within the no-contract framework
with most of its "signings". They are all, with the exception of maybe Lush,
DCD, Muses and Belly free to leave at anytime.

Still, v23 is doing some of its most inspired work in years despite the music
its representing.

Still, I hope this storm will pass.

I HATE (this) ILK!

Phil

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:24:10 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Tarnation

The recent issue of Hits Magazine has an interview with Tarnation's Paula
Frazer.  True, the other three members of the band have left, but they
say she's already got another band put together...

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:43:24 +0100
From: Andrew Norman ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?

              an Ear" at Oct 10, 95 10:10:07 am

Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear  wrote:

 > Personally, I hate the '3'. I think I would have forgiven them
 > had they chosen to use the dreaded "UK" suffix (the other
 > "mojave" is American, right?) because that's easier to ignore.

I like the solution Luna used - a little "2" superscripted, so I was
never quite sure whether they were Luna or "Luna squared".  Eventually
they bought the rights to the name from the other Luna.  Mojave have
problems with Germans, don't they?  What about "Die Mojave Gruppe"?
The "UK" suffix would look awfully odd to British people - all these
groups who are forced to append "London" or "UK" to their names end up
sounding like mod bands with dodgy racial politics.  A 3 was good
enough for the Spacemen.  I would have thought the simplest solution
was a complete name change, though - it's not as if they have a
reputation, other than with the Slowdivomaniacs on the net, and their
only release so far is one track on a couple of compilations.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // [email protected] // 10/10/95
On my walkman this morning : Can - Peel sessions
Upon the straits; - on the French coast the light

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:36:25 -0400
From: Heather Simas ([email protected]) hi everybody in music land i haven't wrote much but i have been really busy well bye

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:30:12 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM

On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear wrote:

> >>Well, they didn't actually DO it, it was put together by 4AD and
> Relativity ...<<
>
> Who's responsible for remixing "Wax and Wane" then?

Ummm...someone at 4AD or Relativity?  Ivo, perchance?


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:11:32 -0500
From: Martin Wagner ([email protected])
Subject: DCD platinum?

Someone on the David Sylvian list is claiming that DCD's Into the
Labyrinth went platinum according to Billboard, which I find frankly
incredible. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Martin

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:55:57 CDT
From: "Kent J. Vanderwaal" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?

              an Ear" at Oct 10, 95 10:10 am

>
> Personally, I hate the '3'. I think I would have forgiven them had they
> chosen to use the dreaded "UK" suffix (the other "mojave" is American,
> right?) because that's easier to ignore.  Or they could even have
> chosen "THE Mojave" (as in "THE Verve"), and I could have ignored the
> 'THE', just like I did with Verve. Not to mention that 'Mojave UK' and
> 'The Mojave' are, to me, more aesthetically pleasing to look at than
> 'Mojave 3'.

Or been creative and come up with a better name.  Wait, they're
musicians, what was I thinking?  duh


kent
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:55:07 -0500
From: eric ([email protected])
Subject: Re: What's with 3?

>Personally, I hate the '3'. I think I would have forgiven them had they
>chosen to use the dreaded "UK" suffix (the other "mojave" is American,
>right?) because that's easier to ignore.  Or they could even have
>chosen "THE Mojave" (as in "THE Verve"), and I could have ignored the
>'THE', just like I did with Verve. Not to mention that 'Mojave UK' and
>'The Mojave' are, to me, more aesthetically pleasing to look at than
>'Mojave 3'.
>

Then again, it's entirely possible that they could mean mojave CUBED:)  And
wasn't Luna once known as Luna2 (as in the lunapark album)?  We all still
call them Luna, though.  My favorite would be The British London Mojave 3
U.K. or Some of the Artists Formerly Known as Slowdive (insert weird symbol
here).

Peng is good,

eric

"I don't care how it works.  I just want the concept."
        -House Majority Leader Dick Armey, when asked how his proposed flat
         tax would work. When asked how much he would pay under the proposed
         tax, he threw out numbers for 10 minutes hoping one of them would
         fly.  None of them did.

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:21:08 -0600
From: mesocyclone ([email protected])
Subject: Re: DCD do 'Album'

  Well, this is my opinion.  I've worked in record stores for over three
years now, and I, along with all the people I've worked with, have always
called greatest hits and best of, and other compilations, "albums".  We
may call it a compilation album, but we still call it an album.  An album
is a reference to the physical object the music is on, whether it be
vinyl or cd.  Listen to MTV, even they will call it an album (like MTV is
some great reference source, but my point is that everybody calls the
things albums).  What are we supposed to call them, "releases"?  I'll
stick to calling them albums, thank you.  And Pink Opaque is still the
best album CT ever did.

******************************************************************************

                                   A.I.D.S.
              We are all infected because we are all affected.........

                                  *********
                     Will Coucheron-Aamot a.k.a. [email protected]
  MBV, medicine, seefeel, flying saucer attack, slowdive, lovesliescrushing
******************************************************************************

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:13:24 -0500
From: Darryl Stephen Roy ([email protected])
Subject: Seeking Big Hat and Tel Basta

I've belatedly become a fan of these two bands, having acquired Big Hat's
second album, "Selena at My Window", and Tel Basta's second, entitled
"Laid Up in Lavender".  Both bands occupy a parallel universe where
post-Siouxsie vocals, multiinstrumentalist/guitarists, amplified
violin/viola, and non-trap drum percussionists, playing lush arabesques
have become the "normal" lineup.

Unfortunately, with the exception of these two releases, their other work
appears to be out-of-print, unavailable locally, on the net, or by
mail-order.  If anyone out there can help me find copies of the following
releases, I'd be most appreciative:

Big Hat - Shimmer
          Inamorata
          Taqueria del Muerte

Tel Basta - Tel Basta (debut)

I can offer tape copies of an fairly extensive thislisty library or a
little money to compensate you for your troubles...Thanks.

--
Computers are useless /    D.Stephen Roy    \ Die in your thoughts every
 they can only give  < [email protected] >  morning and you will no
you answers - Picasso \ Don't rock, wobble! / longer fear death - Hakakure

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:04:46 -0700
From: Aaron Thorne ([email protected])
Subject: Re: AXIS-->4AD

> Isn't this in the 4AD-L FAQ?

Okay, before I look like an even bigger fool, let me defend myself.  It
isn't clear in the faq that the "forward" story comes straight from Ivo.
Now I know that it did, but at the time I really didn't buy it.  So yes,
I did read the faq, and that's what gave me the idea.  Now I have another
faq related question.  Has anyone figured out what C.V.O. stands for?
This is a very pressin(g) question.

Aaron

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:15:07 -0700
From: Brant Dewdrops ([email protected])
Subject: Elysium tour underway

The Elysium / Aurora Borealis tour is in full swing. After
three shows in Vegas, Mesa, and Tucson, band spirits are
the highest they've ever been. We'll see if they're still
having a good time after the 9 hour trip from El Paso to
San Antonio :) [And for those in New Mexico, they did try
to book a show, but nothing came through. They are however giving
this state a full-band salute at this moment somewhere on I-10
between Tucson and El Paso. Next time, definitely!]

The Mesa show was one of the best I have ever seen.
After seeing The Aurora Borealis several times now, I've really
warmed up to their songs: fast, romping, full of energy
and extremely well written. Little bits of XTC and Felt are
strewn about along with great guy vocals, fairly intense
drumming, funky bass, and two guitars. They have a self-released
CD they're selling on the tour.

Elysium. Besides being great band (ether-bliss to noisy with a
fine sense of subtlety) they're wonderful people. Say hi to them
at one of their shows. You probably already know what they sound like
from my ba-zillion posts about them, so check with me privately or
on my Web Page for more details. They have lots of CDs cluttering
up their tour vans that we'd all love to move...

Alison's Halo (Mesa show only-- they're not touring at the moment)
MY GOD! Every time I see them, they just completely blow me away
as if I'm seeing them for the first time. I've said it before and
I'll say it once again: Alison's Halo is the best dreampop band
on the PLANET. They really know how to use quiet vs. all-out-noisy
(aka. "float/slam" for you Dewdrops readers), and when they get into
one of their noisy refrains as in "Calendar" or "Leech" it's nothing
short of an ecstacy of dreamy, swirling excess. They played a bunch of
new songs, showing a branching out of style and sound. When they
release their debut album (whenever that is) it's going to be the
landmark release in this genre for years to come.

Here is the rest of the tour for Elysium and Aurora Borealis:

Tue.Oct.10th - El Paso @ Saso's Lounge - 9565 Dyer
Wed.Oct.11th - San Antonio @ Coffee Gallery - 203 E. Commerce
Thur.Oct.12th - Austin @ TBA
Fri.Oct.13th - Austin @ Ruta Maya - 218 West 4th Street
Sat.Oct.14th - Tulsa @ the Xenophon - 20 E. Brady
Sun.Oct.15th - off
Mon.Oct.16th - Ft. Collins @ Tony's
Tues.Oct.17th - Denver @ Cricket on the Hill - 1209 E. 13th Street
Wed.Oct.18th - Provo @ The Holly Cow (to be confirmed)
Thurs.Oct.19th - Salt Lake City - TBA
Fri.Oct.20th - Off
Sat.Oct.21st - San Francisco/Berkely @ TBA
Mon.Nov.6th - The Whisky in Hollywood - FREE!!!

Go support these bands! I believe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

brant

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:22:35 -0500
From: eric ([email protected])
Subject: albums?

someone on this list said the american souvlaki is not an album because of
the three bonus tracks.  but, if i dub tracks one through ten, do i not
have a dub of an album (there being no difference between the british
souvlaki and tracks one through ten on the american)?  if i do not have a
dub of the album, how am it to distinguish a tape with the british souvlaki
from a tape of tracks one through ten of the american?

the american souvlaki is an album.  that's why the tracks on the end are
called "bonus tracks," to distinguish them from the album proper.

and i won't elaborate on the clan of xymox cd with the two extra remixes.

and my two cents on the "holding our breath" ep, which i just got in the
mail.  it's no good compared to "slowdive" and "morningrise."  sounds like
outtakes from just for a day, which i didn't think was all that great.  i
am, however, a completist, so don't send me any offers for it.

eric, perpetual antagonist

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:31:11 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM

> >>Well, they didn't actually DO it, it was put together by 4AD and
> Relativity ...<<
>
> Who's responsible for remixing "Wax and Wane" then?

Ummm...someone at 4AD or Relativity?  Ivo, perchance?

--------------------------

If it was ANYONE, it would have been either the band or Ivo. Maybe
back in 1982 or maybe early 1983 the band would have let someone else
do it, but I doubt anyone but THEY would have remixed "Wax and Wane"
in 1985. By that time, the band were pretty much in control of most
of what they did in the studio.  Ivo could have done it though, since
he was co-producer when "Wax and Wane" was originally recorded.

Does anyone else agree with me that the version of "Aikea-Guinea"
on The Pink Opaque sounds fuller and more clear than the original?


Mike
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:24:34 -0400
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear ([email protected])
Subject: Re: TOP COCTEAU TWINS ALBUM

>>>I think you're missing the point.  The point is that a *compilation*, even
if it has a few remixed versions and even a few more songs will never be an
album.  If an author releases a book that is a compilation of the best
stories and exerpts from previous novels does this new book count as another
novel?  No.  Otherwise i could just say that the boxed set is my favorite
album.  Someone tried to use subtlety and humor to point this out, others
have come right out and said it but why are you so reluctant to admit that
this is NOT an album?  It may be your favorite CT release but it is NOT what
is commonly referred to as an "album".

-cz




Sorry...I wasn't arguing with the fact that The Pink Opaque is anything
more than a compilation and NOT a new body of work and therefore does
not qualify as an album, per se. I agree with that TOTALLY and always
HAVE felt that way.  All I was saying was that, in response to whomever
said that there was no new input on The Pink Opaque, "Wax and Wane"
and (I'm willing to BET) "Aikea-Guinea" were remixed for The Pink Opaque,
which would indicate NEW WORK to a certain extent.  That's ALL I
was saying...

And as for the Smiths/Morrissey thing...I think you're confusing me
with someone else. I never said anything about those people.

Mike
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:01:13 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: wax and wane remix

>> Who's responsible for remixing "Wax and Wane" then?

>Ummm...someone at 4AD or Relativity?  Ivo, perchance?

I'd be very surprised if it was anyone else's but their
own remix. I have an article somewhere (again it would be
very hard to find) that says Robin was so disappointed
with how "Peppermint Pig" turned out that he vowed never again
to let anyone else produce or mix their songs. Maybe this
remix existed before that, though.

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:35:32 -0400
From: Roy Burns ([email protected])
Subject: Re: DCD platinum?

>>Someone on the David Sylvian list is claiming that DCD's Into the
Labyrinth went platinum according to Billboard, which I find frankly
incredible. Can anyone confirm or deny this?<<

Nope, but is the David Sylvian list any good?

Ry

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:15:32 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: FS: THE THE 7"

              <[email protected]>

does anyone know the whereabouts of any of the music by "matt johnson and the
gadgets"?(very rare)...?

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:36:39 -0400
From: Phil Stout ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Quit It!

>>why are you so reluctant to admit that
this is NOT an album?  It may be your favorite CT release but it is NOT what
is commonly referred to as an "album".<<

Another semantics issue again. We all really live in hate of each other don't
we. All ready to pounce at the slightest thing. Why can't we all just move on
and talk about things that really matter on this list (like how crap Scheer
are and the like).

The Pink Opaque is, indeed, a good CT release (just like "Louder Than Bombs"
and "Singles 45 and Under" are good releases, though not proper albums). Just
chuckle to yourself that little self-satisfied, enlightened chuckle, delete
and move on.

If the vein on your forehead is really throbbing that much, seek counseling
and spare us all the wasted bandwidth. That will allow smug, pompous elitists
like myself to spare YOU this wasted bandwidth.

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:01:41 -0400
From: Michael Franz ([email protected])
Subject: Lisa in NYC interview

Hi gang,

Saw Lisa last night here in NYC and loved it.

Also, I interviewed her today for my online mag, GaySource, the first
online mag for the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender community.

We spoke for about 45 minutes about her solo work, her spirituality,
Brendan and his solo work, the new Dead Can Dance stuff that is to be out
in April, a DCD tour next summer, her brother's death a few weeks ago, her
connection to and affection for the Gay community, and a lot more.

She is so incredibly sweet, and very intense.

It will be in our November issue at:



Michael Franz
Editor-in-Chief
GaySource Magazine
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:47:52 -0700
From: Brandon Capps ([email protected])
Subject: Independent Projects (IPR) website

          indiepop list 

The official Independent Project Records web site can be accessed at:

http//www.indirect.com/www/davidrog/ipr/

Though currently under construction, some interesting info and images on
the label, Bruce Licher, Scenic, Alison's Halo, Half String, & Tone can
be found there.  In the future soundbites, a Bruce Licher gallery, and
even more info, history,images, and mailorder information will be found
there.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
                             brandon capps
                             p.o. box 1483
                            tempe, az 85280
                                 u.s.a.
                           [email protected]
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:14:31 -0700
From: Brandon Capps ([email protected])
Subject: Fishies Going To Heaven Festival update

          indiepop list 

The "All Fish Go To Heaven..."  two day festival is taking place this
weekend in Mesa, Arizona. Featured are some of the best
pop/noisepop/beautifulnoise acts from the western side of the United
States.  A web page has been set up for the event at
.  It features info on the
festival and the bands playing.  Here's the line up in order of appearance:

friday october 13th, 1995
------------------------------
a.m. radio all star
the introspection trio
jupiter sun
super 31
for against
half string


saturday october 14th, 1995
---------------------------------
monte verdict stars
aberdeen
dart
scenic
the apples (in stereo)
alison's halo

the hollywood alley
2610 w. baseline
mesa, arizona
602.820.7117

doors open at 7pm
all ages welcome


Tickets are in form of a two day pass and are still available, but in
limited quantities. They can be reserved via e-mail by contacting Brandon
Capps at  or can be purchased from Stinkweeds
Records in Mesa    (602.897.7109) or Eastside Records in Tempe
(602.968.2011).  Don't miss this special engagement.



~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
                             brandon capps
                             p.o. box 1483
                            tempe, az 85280
                                 u.s.a.
                           [email protected]
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:36:20 -0700
From: Warren Harris ([email protected])
Subject: Re: items for sale

Oh, sorry, I'm interested in the Liquorice "Cheap Cuts" 5 song promo CD
too. Thanks.

Warren


>i know that certain people have expressed a dislike for auctions, so I
>will only post this once. (therefore only requiring one press of the "D"
>key located towards the left of your keyboard).  Anyway, I have the
>following items for sale/bid.
>
>remember kids...only email me PRIVATELY, not to the list!
>
>dirt issue #69 with 'soil samples' split 7"
>     featuring Tarantion "don't fancy me"
>     and Liquorice "team player" both remixed
>     by our pal Warren DeFever.  Yellow vinyl.
>
>Kendra Smith "Five Ways Of Disappearing" promo
>     advance cd complete with 3 hand letterpress
>     printed collector cards, still wrapped in
>     paper.  very rare!
>
>Kendra Smith "Valley of The Morning Sun" 2 song
>     promo cd.
>
>Air Miami "I hate Milk" 1 song promo cd.
>
>Frank Black "Headache" EP (BAD 4007) 4 songs.
>
>Lisa Germano "Cry Wolf" EP.  promo only. 4 songs
>     unreleased non-album tracks/remixes.
>
>Dead Can Dance "American Dreaming" 1 song promo CD
>
>Wolfgang Press "Standing Up Straight" CD
>
>Liquorice "Cheap Cuts" 5 song promo CD with ESP
>     remixes!!!
>
>The Moon And The Melodies "moon and the melodies" UK CD
>
>
>it pains me to sell these, but i need to eat.
>
>if interested, please email me!
>oh yeah, i will also pay for postage.
>
>[email protected]

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:35:23 -0700
From: Warren Harris ([email protected])
Subject: Re: items for sale

Do you still have the dirt issue #69 with 'soil samples' split 7"?

Warren

>i know that certain people have expressed a dislike for auctions, so I
>will only post this once. (therefore only requiring one press of the "D"
>key located towards the left of your keyboard).  Anyway, I have the
>following items for sale/bid.
>
>remember kids...only email me PRIVATELY, not to the list!
>
>dirt issue #69 with 'soil samples' split 7"
>     featuring Tarantion "don't fancy me"
>     and Liquorice "team player" both remixed
>     by our pal Warren DeFever.  Yellow vinyl.
>
>Kendra Smith "Five Ways Of Disappearing" promo
>     advance cd complete with 3 hand letterpress
>     printed collector cards, still wrapped in
>     paper.  very rare!
>
>Kendra Smith "Valley of The Morning Sun" 2 song
>     promo cd.
>
>Air Miami "I hate Milk" 1 song promo cd.
>
>Frank Black "Headache" EP (BAD 4007) 4 songs.
>
>Lisa Germano "Cry Wolf" EP.  promo only. 4 songs
>     unreleased non-album tracks/remixes.
>
>Dead Can Dance "American Dreaming" 1 song promo CD
>
>Wolfgang Press "Standing Up Straight" CD
>
>Liquorice "Cheap Cuts" 5 song promo CD with ESP
>     remixes!!!
>
>The Moon And The Melodies "moon and the melodies" UK CD
>
>
>it pains me to sell these, but i need to eat.
>
>if interested, please email me!
>oh yeah, i will also pay for postage.
>
>[email protected]


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:50:20 EST
From: Network Manager ([email protected])
Subject: NDN:Re: DCD platinum?

Your mail to the Microsoft Mail Server could not be fully
delivered!   No Valid Recipients!   It has been deleted.

Error List:
  Bad 'To:' Address: lawren [email protected] Post Office

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:48:32 -0500
From: Steven Szaks ([email protected])
Subject: I need 4ad's LA phone number please!!!

can someone please send me the la office's phone number???
thanks
steve
[email protected]

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:24:00 EST
From: "Ellens, Harm" ([email protected])
Subject: Re: FS: THE THE 7"

No, but Matt Johnson himself does not tyhink much of it. If you go to the
The The WWW page you can find out why.

Cheers,

H.
 ----------
>
>does anyone know the whereabouts of any of the music by "matt johnson and
the
>gadgets"?(very rare)...?
>

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:59:17 -0700
From: Brant Dewdrops ([email protected])
Subject: AFGTH rides offered

As you may have seen from Brandon, the pop event of the
year is happening in Phoenix this weekend, starting Friday
night. E-mail [email protected] for more details.

I will be driving there, leaving LA sometime Friday morning,
and returning Sunday morning/aternoon. I'd be glad to take
up to 3 other people with me on the trip, so contact me ASAP
if you'd like to come.

Let's make it a trip to remember!

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html

ps. as a bonus, the route along I-10 includes some of the
places involved in the Scenic album 'Incident At Cima',
plus you just can't beat the cactus-filled scenery.

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:44:59 -0400
From: Alex Wolfson ([email protected])
Subject: 4ad on the cheap in nyc

I was at discorama at w4st and picked up a promo copy of air miami's me
me me.  I'm enjoying it, but if anyone was getting tired of their copy of
13yi (just kidding)...

But for all you other full price paying fools, they also had the following...

kendra smith 5 ways of dissappearing advance cd
that dog totally crushed out advance cd
avam comp

I could (ouch) pick these up for people who REALLY wanted them, so let me
know.

Alex

*******************************************************************************
* Columbia Institute for Tele-Information * 809 Uris Hall * New York NY 10027 *
*******************************************************************************
* ph 212 854 4222 * fx 212 932 7816 * wb www.ctr.columbia.edu/citi/index.html *
*******************************************************************************


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:36:39 -0400
From: redacted ([email protected])
Subject: AM I RESPONSIBLE?

        SNIFF.....SNIFF....All i wanted to know was what people's favorite
CT album was. Maybe, for some people it's pink opaque. That's their own
perogative.
I didn't expect to start a flame war. Everybody can like what they like. No
prob. Boy, if CT heard about this...they would crack up!


[email protected], last updated by Eyesore Automation on 10-10-1995