Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:05:35 -0400
Someone out there must have the CD for Tim Buckley "Starsailor"...which
includes the lyrics for "Song To The Siren". If that someone could post or
e-mail me these words, I'd be very very grateful!
Thanks (in advance)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:11:26 -0700
> Alright, you're now the *third* person to have pointed me to this
> site, and, as I've stated, I want the *REAL*, copyrighted lyrics, not
> those as interpreted by its listeners.
I don't want to say it's hopeless to try to find real lyrics,
but to innocently ask-- is it necesarily the case that lyrics
would even be available from a publisher? Do they have databases
of lyrics for every song released through them? I'd be surprised
if the copyright entailed anything more than a written agreement saying
the band/publisher owns the material, with no concrete listing
of the lyrics required. There's some article from around the time
of HOLV which said the only time lyrics were ever written down
was when MTV wouldn't show the Iceblink Luck video without knowing
what the lyrics were. Maybe someone can confirm this or I can
ask the band; but I am sure that they must be sick-to-death of
questions about lyrics.
Again, I'm not saying it's a hopeless cause to try to figure out
the actual lyrics, but I'll remind you that Elizabeth is
on record as saying Blue Bell Knoll was entirely made up
words/sounds, and Treasure was mostly Scottish words.
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter at all what she's
saying. She actually COULD be raving on about Hitler and it
wouldn't make me love their music any less.
In my opinion, the mystery is one of the
"selling points" of what they do. I like it, and I'd be happy to
let it go unsolved.
| Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567 | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:12:54 -0500
On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Brant Dewdrops wrote:
> > Alright, you're now the *third* person to have pointed me to this
> > site, and, as I've stated, I want the *REAL*, copyrighted lyrics, not
> > those as interpreted by its listeners.
> I don't want to say it's hopeless to try to find real lyrics,
> but to innocently ask-- is it necesarily the case that lyrics
> would even be available from a publisher? Do they have databases
> of lyrics for every song released through them? I'd be surprised
> if the copyright entailed anything more than a written agreement saying
> the band/publisher owns the material, with no concrete listing
> of the lyrics required. There's some article from around the time
If the lyrics are copyrighted, wouldn't they have to write down what the
lyrics actually were? Else they could go randomly accusing people of
stealing their lyrics.
I've seen two copyright applications, and they both had lotsa space
to fill in with lyrics. Of course, it may be possible that only the
music is copyrighted and officially there are no lyrics. In that
case nobody can ever accuse you of getting the words wrong.
On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Larry Harbin wrote:
> settled in. Oh, that the band has reached this low point! Liz's voice was
> flat, emotionless, and making out the lyrics only added to my disappointment.
I find it interesting that you think so. The first thing i thought was
that liz sounded more emotional than in the past. She's always sounded
somewhat otherworldly (does she sound like that when she speaks? i've
never talked to her before) but on this record she sounds more human,
perhaps more frail than before with more sounds that could be interpreted
as flaws but give her singing more character to my ears. There's that
high G or so in golden-vein (is it possible to screech softly?) and the
quavering at the end of the last song . . . Sure, she's always felt free
to experiment a little with her voice as with the last tour, but it seems
to stand out more with the soft background.
Maybe i just need to listen to the '85 stuff again. Or maybe it's because
i just moved my speakers. I put 'em on the very center axis long-ways
in the room and i sit with my back to the wall, and everything sounds oh
so much clearer. Of course now it seems like there's nothing in the room
except for the speakers, but it's worth it to me.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:28:42 -0400
Someone asked about the new Bowie LP and I thought I'd give my
initial impressions of it. And I'm not apologizing to anyone who thinks
Bowie sucks...sure, a lot of the later, post-"Scary Monsters" stuff is
surely average, but
if I have a choice between Michael Bolton or Bowie on the radio, I'll
take Bowie any day. The Eno Trilogy ("Low", "The Lodger" and "Heroes") are
probably some of the best atmospheric rock LPs ever released...
Also, I saw the NIN and Bowie show at Meadowlands, NJ last night
(kinda funny it's in NJ when it's almost all a bunch of New Yorkers who cross
the Hudson for the evening... local humor...sorry ;-)
Let's face it: Bowie has cemented his place in rock and roll and can do whatever
he pleases. But even for an open-minded music fan like me, it's hard
to sit there and get into a batch of songs you've never heard ("Outside" has
only been out for 2 days). Yet, I heard
rhythms and melodies I liked. He's also made it clear that this is not
to be a "greatest hits" tour, but for the old time fans he played
"Joe the Lion", "Scary Monsters" with NIN, "The Man Who Sold the World" (fave
line of the night from a 15-year-old: "Hey, he's singing a Nirvana song!"),
and a wonderful "Under Pressure"--love that bass riff!
Please keep in mind that I just got this tonight (listening to it for the
3rd time as I write this)
and since I can't read the lyrics at all in the CD booklet (looks like it's
designed by someone influenced
by Vaughn Oliver on a bad acid trip---and I mean that in the worst possible
way. It's illegible
for the most part), I've decided to type up some of the lyrics for my own
Maybe they'll help sum up the "concept" behind the songs. I can't figure it out
at all, except that it has something to do with ritualistic murders and the
future, and a
couple of different characters...hey it's a work of "art"!
1. Leon Takes Us Outside: Great moody opening with heavy synth textures with
a barely-audible voice spouting off some dates separated by years..I think
these are the dates that these ritual murders happen in the "plot".
2. Outside: has a real forboding melody. Very atmospheric. "the music is
outside...not tomorrow...it's happening now"
3. Heart's Filthy Lesson: I like this. It's on the radio, so you've probably
already heard this
amalgamation of industrial-cum-scratch funk. "If there was only something
4. A Small Plot of Land: VERY dissonant. There's a piano playing that is
totally out of synch
w/ the rest of what's happening in the rest of then tune. Also a lot of
work and chants in the sides of the mix (makes for a nice listen on
headphones). Still, my
reaction is a total "Huh?"
They're basically Bowie talking in different voices of the various
"characters" in the "plot"..
how these complement or flesh
out the songs I have no idea. It's a real shame too. If I could, I'd take
out Bowie's voice
and just leave them as instrumentals as the music behind the vocals is SO
textured and interesting.
6. Hallo Spaceboy: I recognize this from last night..one of the highlights
of the show.
This is probably the most straightforward rocker on the LP. Probably will be
the next single. Features a great driving rhythm section and highly
guitar tracks: one that anchors the whole tune, and another that slides in
of the mix from left to right and vice versa.
"Spaceboy you're sleepy now. You're released but your custody calls...don't
you want to be free? This chaos is killing me!"
7. The Motel: The pace slows down for this lilting, melancholy-tinged song.
"We're living in a safety zone...living
from hour to hour..." The song seems to lament the state of living in the
modern world, which is
not a new theme in pop music, but handled nicely.
8. I Have Not Been to Oxford Town: This is okay...drum trax is right out of
a Prince tune. More scratch-funk guitar. On closer listen you can hear all
sorts of stuff in the sides of the mix. It's Bowie's vocal
that makes this a decent tune. Oxford Town is a fictional New Jersey place
where one of the characters Det. Nathan Adler works/lives I guess (that's
what I gather anyway...). "Pay the private eye...all's well...as the 20th
9. No Control: think Depeche Mode ala "Songs of Faith and Devotion" and you
know what this sounds like.
10. Another segue
11. The Voyeur of Utter Destruction (As Beauty): starts off with some cool
guitar noodling, then Bowie's voice comes
in...then the driving drums/bass thang starts again (I know I am relying on
the "driving rhythm" phrase too much..they are all different in each song I
use this phrase actually).
12. Another segue..give it up Dave! Well, maybe he's doing this to practice
reading bedtime stories to his
grand kids or something.
it goes right into...
I am a Name: nice synchopated drum trax. Lots of strange-cool synths going
in and out of the
mix and a stinging guitar line crashing in and out on the left side of the
mix. Something about "Ramona", another
one of the characters..."are we all just a name?" I think it's about being
faceless/anonymous in society.
13. Wishful Beginnings:"You're a sorry little girl" . Hurm. More Dissonance:
Bowie is singing/moaning totally out
of tune with the droning keyboards/synths in the background. The
drum/precussion traxs are very monolithic and
unchanging. Kinda boring. More "huh?" from me.
14. We Prick You: This is a mundane, bad Kraftwerk-soundalike. Not too hot...
15. Another segue
16. I'm Deranged: yes you are Dave, but this is a nice melodic tune where
all the parts
fit together. Classic Bowie crooning here, not as good as, say, the "under
the Serious Moonlight" part
of "Let's Dance" or all of "Heroes", but it's close.
17. Thru' These Architects Eyes: ACK! another predictable, you-heard-this
funky R&B drum/bass trax before
in another top 40 tune. The synths in the background add some texture and
make this kinda interesting,
but they should be louder. "on the majesty of a city landscape, all the
sorry days in our lives, all the concrete dreams in my mind's eye, all the
joy I see thru these architects eyes..." well maybe it isn't that bad.
Some more dissonance thrown in via a wacky piano trax played totally out of
wack with the
rest of the song, but it somehow fits.
18. Another Segue
19. Stangers When We Meet: This is from the "Budda of Suburbia" soundtrack
(anyone know if
this is still available? I can't find it). I haven't heard the original so I
can't compare. But it is a great way to end
this album on a positive note. This is the poppy
toe-tapping-sing-along-with-the-words Bowie we know and love.
"blank screen TV, freeing ourselves in the snow, forget my name, but I'm
BOTTOM LINE: Is this a brilliant LP? No. Is a good still? IMHO, yes. I'll
probably end up
dubbing it without the segues. Who knows? In a year I might love this. For
now I'm happy
I bought it and get something out of it...just the overall production and
make it a pleasant listen (especially Mike Garson on the grand piano), but
it's not as earth shaking as a lot of early Bowie.
"Are you allgeric to the 20th Century?"
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 03:30:33 -0400
Long afloat on shipless oceans
I did all my best to smile
'Til your singing eyes and fingers
Drew me loving to your isle
Sail to me
Let me enfold you
Here I am
Waiting to hold you
Did i dream you dreamed about me?
Were you hare when I was fox
Now my fooish boat is leaning
Broken lovelorn on your rocks
For you sing " Touch me not touch me not , come back tomorrow
O my heart, O my heart shies from the sorrow"
I am puzzled as the newborn child
I am troubled as the tide
Should I stand amid the breakers
Should I lie with Death my bride
Hear me sing, "Swim to me, Swim to me,Let me enfold you:
Here I am, ...............................
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:42:12 -0500
but its been near 3 weeks since you said the v23 book was sent.
it obviously never got to me, or i wouldn't be bothering the world
with this message. would you please finally take care of this.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:50:13 -0700
Dewdrops on Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:11:26 -0700)
>I don't want to say it's hopeless to try to find real lyrics,
>but to innocently ask-- is it necesarily the case that lyrics
>would even be available from a publisher? Do they have databases
>of lyrics for every song released through them? I'd be surprised
>if the copyright entailed anything more than a written agreement saying
>the band/publisher owns the material, with no concrete listing
>of the lyrics required. There's some article from around the time
I'm making the assumption here that music publishing is like dramatic
arts publishing. Let's say that a theatre troupe wants to perform
Grease, for example. They call up Samuel French and say, "We want to
put on X performances of Grease. We need Y copies of the script. How
much will it cost?" The company responds with the price of $Z, which
the troupe then sends--this covers royalty costs and reproduction
When one goes out to a music store and buys sheet music, (s)he is paying
for the right to borrow this music (among other things). The
publisher puts it out as copyrighted by its authors.
All I think one has to do is call up Beggars' Banquet and say "I want
to buy a copy of the music sheet for Treasure by Cocteau Twins."
Certainly they *must* have music and lyrics--how else would they be
able to settle copyright disputes, if someone decided to perform their
songs and claim them as their own? Without it, they'd have no legal
grounds to fight it.
|\ Michael S. Fischer System Administrator _O_
| Internet: firstname.lastname@example.org The Neurosciences Institute |
() Phone: 619.626.2000 Pager: 619.632.3201 San Diego, CA |
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 10:05:31 -0400
URL that contains the thing about the CT page is:
(It's not that they're saying the page sucks, but they point out that
despite Jack's assertion that "almost all the lyrics to Iceblink Luck are
audible", the site contains two almost totally different interpretations
of the lyrics.)
Actually, "almost all the lyrics to "Iceblink Luck" are audible!" was My
assertion, put forth in http://grether.haas.berkeley.edu:8080/Beginners/
heaven.html. To me, at least, they ARE all audible in some form or other.
I mean, it's obvious that there are real words there. I guess I shouldn't
have been as forthright about it, though....I'm the one they quoted as
having said "I'm seeming to be glad a lot; I'm happy again; Caught, caught
They failed to point out that the 'lyrics' posted at Jack's page are in
NO WAY alleged to be OFFICIAL. They are contributed independently, and
Liz has offered NO feedback whatsoever. However, the fact that they're
still there at all (since it's the OFFICIAL site) supports the idea
that the band encourage trivial speculation.
I s'pose I should edit that line about the "Iceblink Luck" lyrics, though...
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 10:38:04 -0400
email@example.com (Mike) wrote:
>Alright, you're now the *third* person to have pointed me to >this site,
and, as I've stated, I want the *REAL*, copyrighted >lyrics, not those as
interpreted by its listeners.
>I'm going to get in touch with Beggars' Banquet since nobody >in the past
seems to have done so already. Sheesh.Lookie here >Mikey. This is also the
*third* person you've been positively >rude to. We were trying to help you,
give you suggestions, etc. >If you are going to be rude about it, why don't
you just write >Beggars Banquet and leave us nice people alone.
Lookey here Mikey. This is also the *third* person you've been absolutely
rude to. We're tring to help you with a request. Don't be such a snot. If
you're going to write Beggars Banquet, do it for chrissakes and leave us all
the hell alone!!!
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:05:59 -0400
Long afloat on shipless oceans
I did all my best to smile
'Til your singing eyes and fingers
Drew me loving to your isle
And you sang," Sail to me, Sail to me, Let me enfold you"
Here I am
Here I am
Waiting to hold you
Did I dream you dreamed about me?
Were yo hare when I was fox?
Now my foolish boat is leaning
Broken lovelorn on your rocks
For you sing, "Touch me not, Touch me not, Come back tomorrow:
O my heart, O my heart shies from the sorrow"
I am puzzled as a newborn child
I am as troubled as the tide
Should I stand amid the breakers?
Should I lie with death my bride?
Hear me sing, "Swim to me, Swim to me, Let me enfold you:
Here I am, Here I am, Waiting to hold you"
Tim Buckley/Larry Beckett
Lyrics copyright 1968 Third Story Music Inc. [BMI]
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:19:14 -0400
I just sold a copy of it on CD...
and it was compiled with Curiosity Anomalies... kinda like the tape (i
don't know, never had the tape) it was an Australian boot from what I
I'd give you the address of the person I sold it to, but he'd might get upset.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:01:30 +0600
>I'm making the assumption here that music publishing is like dramatic
>arts publishing. Let's say that a theatre troupe wants to perform
>Grease, for example. They call up Samuel French and say, "We want to
>put on X performances of Grease. We need Y copies of the script. How
>much will it cost?" The company responds with the price of $Z, which
>the troupe then sends--this covers royalty costs and reproduction
>When one goes out to a music store and buys sheet music, (s)he is paying
>for the right to borrow this music (among other things). The
>publisher puts it out as copyrighted by its authors.
Your assumption that music publishing is just like dramatic publishing is
somewhat dubious. First plays are usually made to be performed by
*others* whereas some music is copyrighted to *prevent* others from usage
without permission. It is up to the copyright holder to grant permission
and if the CT's decide not to do so. Well, that's their decision.
A more appropriate analogy might be movie show rights. You can't
just write in and expect them to give you a copy of the script to the movie
just because it's copyrighted. I'm not sure about the law regarding this
but i don't see any reason that music (or movies) has to be ON PAPER at
all. Maybe all they have is the CD on record. All the information is
there isn't it? Why do you think everything has to be in written form in
order to be copyrighted? Images are copyrighted too, why not sounds
themselves (from instruments or voice)?
>All I think one has to do is call up Beggars' Banquet and say "I want
>to buy a copy of the music sheet for Treasure by Cocteau Twins."
>Certainly they *must* have music and lyrics--how else would they be
>able to settle copyright disputes, if someone decided to perform their
>songs and claim them as their own? Without it, they'd have no legal
>grounds to fight it.
So you're saying that if i released a tape of me reciting poetry that i had
created but never written down that anyone could write or recite those same
poems without any worry about legal recourse from me? No way! Anything
that you release to the public has automatic protection whether it is
written or visual or spoken. If you want to sue then the strength of your
case will depend on how much documentation you have that shows that you did
this FIRST and it depends on HOW MUCH was taken from you.
The summer sun ray shifts through a suspicious tree. *though I walk thrugh
the valley of the shadow* It sucks the air and looks around for me. The
grass speaks. I hear green chanting all day. *I will fear no evil, fear
no evil* The blades extend and reach my way. The sky breaks. It sags and
breathes uppon my face. *in the presence of mine enemies, mine enemies*
The world is full of enemies. There is no safe place. -Anne Sexton
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:53:10 -0500
from "Kagin Lee" at Sep 30, 95 01:12:54 am
If I remember CCD correctly,, St. Catherine was martyred on a spiked
wheel which miraculously fell apart when she touched it...new context!
I don't recall having seen that posted, but if it was, sorry ;b..
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:59:05 -0500
"ariane181@DALLAS.EMAIL.NET" at Sep 29, 95 08:46:13 pm
It dawned on me that you list-type people have interesting
vocabularies on the whole. Friends of mine and I used to madlib
anythinng we saw and often would run up against dull people whenever
we called around Cedar Rapids, IA , for nouns, verbs, and adjectives.
LIke the funeral home, par exemple, whose noun for us was 'death', and
the KayBee toystore's offering of 'barbie'. SO!
Anyone who is interested please send parts of speech, specially
adjectives, for your 4AD artist o'choice. CT, DCD, even Ivo, and all
the others, they're all more than welcome. Thank you in advance; sorry
foor the spam if ye hate grammar :)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:25:00 -0400
I will take no money (offer if you want though).
I have copies of these promo 7"s as well as a copy of FTWW avail. for trade
only (together or separately), all mint.
Looking for the "13 YI" compact disc in mint (or any other FAC, 4AD,
suggested rarities anyone might have). Or the Liquorice ESP Remix promo CD in
Here's the breakdown:
-Air Miami: I Hate Milk/Afternoon Train 7"
-Joe Friday: RHP: Long Distance Runaround / Liquorice: Drive Around (differs
from LP)/ Kendra Smith: In Your Head
Also (non-4AD) promo CD and 7" singles for SUGAR releases circa F.U.E.L. and
press release (all together)
Sorry to infringe upon etiquette, but I figured that if anybody wanted this
stuff, they would want to know about it.
Take me for a ride,
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:54:17 -0500
Some 4AD list members may be interested in this:
Prior to October 1, 1995, there was apparently (and inexplicably) no
internet discussion group dedicated to the Cocteau Twins. Therefore, this
mailing list has been created with the intention of sharing information
for CT enthusiasts, and members are encouraged to share whatever
CT-related information that they may like. This includes the discussion
of solo projects by Cocteau Twins members, discussion of related musical
genres, and the asking and answering of questions about this group.
To subscribe to the Cocteau Twins list, send an e-mail message to:
and in the BODY of the message, write:
Due to some software idiosyncracies you MUST type the "JWGROTE" part of
the list name (it's not a typo). You will receive a welcome message from
the server and a list of commands for UNSUBSCRIBING from the list, and
you are highly advised to keep that message for future reference.
Henceforth you should direct all of your messages to:
in order for them to be reflected to the other list members.
The mailing list is administered by
and any inquiries/problems/suggestions may be directed to that address.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:46:07 BST
Can someone let me have contact details (net, fax, phone and/or snail-mail) for
23 (& Nigel Grierson if he's not at v23 anymore).
//// mirabilia ////
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 16:12:51 -0500
In all honesty, Outside requires more than a single listening to really
absorb and understand it. The segues, for one thing: this album is a
story, with Bowie playing several different characters, and is also the
first installment of a trilogy. If your reaction to this is "what's he
doing?" simply read the booklet.
I admire this album tremendously, but will admit it took about three or
four spins before it fully sank in. Initially off-putting songs like "I
Have Not Been to Oxford Town" and "We Prick You" really grew on me after
a while, although, as opposed to your review, the dissonant tracks like
"A Small Plot of Land" knocked me out on first listen.
The most impressive thing about Outside is Bowie's willingness to flout
commercialism and experiment with virtually any idea he, Eno, and the
band come up with. I'd agree: this album may not be conventionally
"brilliant" but it is utterly remarkable and in many ways unique. Perhaps
the best thing he's done since Lodger.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:03:41 -0400
I just had to put in an(other) good word for the new album by Tarnation,
"Gentle Creatures." It is, simply, absolute genius. Here's why:
1. Paula Frazier has the best voice I've heard in ages. If you're into the
Liz-Lisa-Bulgares thing, I think you'll really be impressed. "Game of
Broken Hearts" has a vocal that is as chill-down-the-back-of-my-spine
(copyright 1995, Steve Titus) as anything I've ever heard.
2. It's country, but as I've said before it's not Confederate-flag,
pickemup-truck, redneck country. It's country-as-idiom for really sad
stories, which to my mind is the best idiom there is for this sort of thing.
Hell, it's even better than the country-it's-cool-to-like of Gram Parsons,
the Byrds ("Sweetheard of the Rodeo"-era), and Patsy Cline.
3. The songwriting is absolutely brilliant. And unlike many 4AD bands
(stand up DCD and RHP), the lyrics are as good as the melodies. Check out
"Two Wrongs Won't Make Things Right" and "Do You Fancy Me" especially.
4. It's the best new 4AD signing since RHP at the very least, if not since
HNIA. Maybe the best signing since Pale Saints or even Throwing Muses. If
you've been disturbed by the pedestrian nature of some of 4AD's recent
signings, get this and encourage Ivo to experiment again.
5. "The Well," the Tarnation song on "FTWW" and "TIGTHOI" compilations,
isn't even close to being the best song on the album.
6. Of the two song sung by the guys, only one sucks ("Stranger in the
Mirror"). Contrary to previous reports, they do not ruin the album. "It's
Not Easy" is actually a really good song. By the way, Paula wrote it.
7. The last reason it's great is because I like it. As you all know, I
have impeccible taste in music, so if I like it, it must be good!
This public service announcement has been brought to you by your friendly
neighborhood Tarnation fan.
Jeffrey T. Gayton
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:32:47 -0400
In the 4AD issue of Emigre (1987), the interview with then 23 Envelope talks
about a long-form video project with the Cocteau Twins.
Does anyone know any more about this? Was this totally scrapped when they
left 4AD? Was it merely a compilation of all of their video work or something
I'd love to know,
P.S. Wasn't terribly impressed with either "Twinlights" or "Need-fire" (what
in God's name was it doing on that Dreddful soundtrack?!?).
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 04:53:57 -0500
I paid 9.99, 8.99 * 2 , and 4.99 for a promo copy at a used CD store.
I'll buy only one more, the import, and expect to pay no more than
11.9 for that, and probably pay 10.99.
I noted how fast it was selling. Waterloo started with 27 and 2
days later had 10. Tower had about 20 and went to 8 in the same time.
I can't be sure how many they are selling, and I can't even tell
what a lot is, but I am curious to see if this is a good mover.