4ad-l Mail for 09-21-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: xmal deutschland help
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:31:29 EWT
From: soul whirling somewhere (BGMUTZA@CLUSTER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:54:15 -0400
From: TS61822@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: xmal deutschland help
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:15:07 -0500
From: Kagin Lee (klee1@tiger1.ocs.lsu.edu)
Subject: Vegetable Shade
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:23:32 EST
From: dboughey@MGDESTMX01.ERIN.GOV.AU
Subject: Re: 4AD-L FAQ
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:18:40 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:18:06 -0600
From: Elaun Laurene (ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA)
Subject: Re: refutations
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:06:33 -0700
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: band name sources (was Re: DeadCanDance)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:44:14 -0500
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" (jenor@CSD.UWM.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:55:38 +0600
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: 4AD, hold the "4"
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 01:51:34 -0500
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" (jenor@CSD.UWM.EDU)
Subject: Re: band name sources....
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:25:47 PDT
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: Re: refutations
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:25:49 -0500
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" (jenor@CSD.UWM.EDU)
Subject: Re: xmal deutschland help
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:13:21 +0100
From: "'H'y" (hmc4@mailer.york.ac.uk)
Subject: alles ist unfamiliar
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:23:15 -0700
From: nOISEgIRLY k-j and jOHN (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:13:43 -0600
From: Chadwick Dorton (cdorton@SLCPL.SLCPL.LIB.UT.US)
Subject: Re: the real death of rock and roll
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:38:45 +0100
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Pram
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:35:20 -0700
From: Andrew Dean (a.dean@UK22P.BULL.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: the real death of rock and roll
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:42:31 -0700
From: nOISEgIRLY k-j and jOHN (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:58:33 -0400
From: Larry Koch (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Pale Saints EP
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:41:56 -0400
From: Daniel Sobus (eleven@GROVE.UFL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:14:28 -0700
From: nOISEgIRLY k-j and jOHN (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: refutations
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:37:54 CST
From: thad.engeling@CCQM.NATINST.COM
Subject: Re: autechre tri repetae please
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:42:25 -0400
From: Lawren Wu (Lawren_Wu@GATORMAIL.WI.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re: Twinlights
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:39:28 -0400
From: Lawren Wu (Lawren_Wu@GATORMAIL.WI.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:43:14 -0700
From: Candice A Mack (mackc@WATNXT06.UCR.EDU)
Subject: Re: a cure question
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:02:29 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Please "kick me off"
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:06:00 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: autechre tri repetae please
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:15:49 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: m7x
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:08:22 -0700
From: Sharkless girl a/k/a Kayleigh (uthelene@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: to the sky, the cure
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:04:07 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: refutations (i.e., NO MUSICAL CONTENT)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:33:49 -0400
From: ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:11:48 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:13:18 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:00:05 EDT
From: LGC2C@DMT03.MCC.VIRGINIA.EDU
Subject: xmal deutchland for sale/trade
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:04:02 -0700
From: Matthew Polder (mpolder@LYNX.PS.UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: refutations (i.e., NO MUSICAL CONTENT)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:33:49 -0400
From: ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU
Subject: Band names
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:42:56 -0400
From: Ron Jost (RON@SYBEX.COM)
Subject: think I'm getting the hang of it promo
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:22:47 -0500
From: MGARRETT@DEPAUW.EDU
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:11:48 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:13:18 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:07:19 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: way too much
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:26:44 CST
From: eric (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:31:29 EWT
From: soul whirling somewhere (BGMUTZA@CLUSTER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU)
Subject: Re: xmal deutschland help


>Where in hell did you get this?  Is it not out of print?  I have been
>trying to locate a copy forever.  All I have is a bad tape of Tocsin that
>someone made for me.  I have heard of only 3 other albums besides Tocsin,
>but the only two I have ever seen or heard are Tocsin and Fetish.  Fetish
>is pretty good too, although I think Tocsin is better.

well... i went to my local independent local music store and found an import
copy used for $11.  i don't know what the 4AD catalog charges for this, but
this seemed like a pretty good deal to me.  :)  besides, southern indiana is
not exactly a hotspot for import cds...guess i just got lucky?  they have
another, different xmal deutschland cd (can't remember the name... perhaps it
is _fetish_?) as a used import as well.  guess groceries will have to wait!

brian


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:54:15 -0400
From: TS61822@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance


>and I
>_think_ Chatherine Wheel from a Simple Minds song (although the name for
>both may have come from some other source originally)

catherine wheel was the name of a book in the 50's and a medeveal torture
device that they used to torture st. catherine with attempting to tear her
limbs from her body.

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:15:07 -0500
From: Kagin Lee (klee1@tiger1.ocs.lsu.edu)
Subject: Re: xmal deutschland help


On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, soul whirling somewhere wrote:

> i recently picked up xmal deutschland's _tocsin_, which i thoroughly enjoy.  i
> was wondering if the material on this cd is fairly indicative of the kind of
> stuff on their other releases and how this one stacks up against them.

in my opinion...

Fetisch lp and Qual 12": more adventurous than the stuff on Tocsin, which
 seemed like it took some ideas from Fetisch and made 'em more digestible
 Fetisch is harder to take in, and sometimes reminds me of cocteau twins'
 'garlands" lp.

Sequenz ep and peel sessions: Even more "rock" than tocsin.  The peel
 sessions has the same songs as sequenz i believe, with one more song.
 I like the versions on sequenz better, even though the peel sessions
 cd glows in the dark.

Viva lp and Sickle Moon 12": Still similar to tocsin and sequenz with
 more variety, but still the pop feeling rather than the more experimental
 fetisch lp.  To me, tocsin sounds kinda homogeneous sometimes, but that
 doesn't happen with this album.  The 12" has one nice doomy song that's
 not on the album.

Devils lp: Really slimy sounding glam stuff, as if they were making a
 conscious effort to reach dance clubs.  All the songs are in english
 i believe.  I can hardly stand listening to it.

kagin

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:23:32 EST
From: dboughey@MGDESTMX01.ERIN.GOV.AU
Subject: Vegetable Shade


     If anyone is wondering what Lisa Gerrard is singing with such passion
     during Handel's Largo on The Mirror Pool, I think this is an english
     translation of some of the lyrics:

     No, never vegetable made
     A dearer and a lovelier shade.
     And never from the sun's fierce heat
     Was more agreeable retreat.

     Its all about the hero of the opera singing in praise of a shady plane
     tree, or so the program notes of the Australian Chamber Orchestra
     concert I went to last night inform me.  The 'Ombra mai fu' from Serse
     was sung by Lorraine Hunt, a mezzo sporano.  It was presented with a
     bit less emotion than Lisa Gerrard's version, also a bit quieter in
     relation to the music (suprising considering the volume she reached
     later in the evening).

     Apparently the opera it comes from was a flop at the time (1738) and
     the music from this opening aria became popular with pianists and
     church organists in the 19th century.  There you go.

     David
     dboughey@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:18:40 -0500
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD-L FAQ


        Jens said:
>Thanks to Lawren for being civic-minded and posting a FAQ, but (a) it's
>kind of out of date, as a few people have noticed by posting corrections
>that I already made months ago, and (b) the current FAQ is available on the
>Web at
>

I'd just like to say, publicly, that i'm very impressed with the job that
Jens has done with the FAQ.  But ...

After all of Jens' hard work there's still a major problem with this FAQ:
no one seems to know about it!

What i mean by that is that Netscape's "netsearch" database finds 39 hits
for the search "+4AD +FAQ" and NONE of them are your page.  AND last time i
checked (a few weeks ago maybe) most of the "hits" either had very outdated
FAQ's or pointed me to the now-quite-obsolete FAQ at JHUVM.  Even the
eyesore database has an outdated FAQ.  I wrote the NETSEARCH people an
e-mail to add Jens' page so hopefully this will solve a bit of the problem
but there are still many people who need to be contacted about updating
their links.  Any voluteers?

-cz

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:18:06 -0600
From: Elaun Laurene (ecable@ACS.UCALGARY.CA)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance


Jake wrote:
>
> Actually, there have been a few bands around that have done this before.
> Like Shakespear's Sister from The Smiths' "Shakespeare's Sister", and I
> _think_ Chatherine Wheel from a Simple Minds song (although the name for
> both may have come from some other source originally).  Just wondering if
> anyone else knew any other interesting ones...

Didn't Slowdive take their name from a track on a Siouxsie album?  And
here in Calgary we have a band called Glider courtesy of MBV.


Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:06:33 -0700
From: Micah Newman (mnewman@WESTMONT.EDU)
Subject: Re: refutations


Jens wrote:
> Makes no sense. The existence/nonexistence of any entity has nothing to do
> with the existence/nonexistence of ideas related to that entity. Otherwise
> we could "prove" that Smurfs exist by noting that the idea of Smurfs
> exists.

        How valid is the comparison between "God" and "Smurfs"? You stray
from the real point here.

> This is the same mistake that Anselm himself made in his "proof" of the
> existence of God. (Anselm was a 12th(?) century saint; his argument runs
> something like: we have the idea of God as the perfect being. A being that
> exists is more perfect than one that doesn't, so because God is so utterly
> perfect He must exist. That anyone took this seriously still amazes me, but
> then most pre-Enlightenment philosophy is riddled with similar circular
> reasoning.)

        You are correct, this is indeed the "Proof" which my little blurb is
related to. You are also correct that it is not really a proof, but
something upon which people who already believe in God can meditate upon
in order to better grasp what it is they believe in despite our finite,
temporal realm in which we must dwell.
        I suppose I was right in assuming that, likewise, the "variation"
also would make no sense to someone who hasn't already made up his/her
mind that God exists.
        Maybe another way to put it is this: people who don't believe in God
don't do so because of objectivity. It's a decision, not based upon
rationality, because certainly a planet with an ecosystem in which hundreds
of billions of difference species live, and a human form whose incredible
order and detail defies the understanding of the minds which occupy those
bodies, to come about all by themselves is emphatically against all the
laws of nature. And starting with this information, which we KNOW, the next
logical conclusion is certainly not "there's no God, all these molecules
organized themselves despite the 2nd law of Thermodynamics". So it makes
a lot more sense for God to definitely exist. At least to me.
        I could go into a lot more detail, but I'll stop now. Sorry to take
up so much space with non-listy stuff, but other people remarked and I had
to respond...

= "Wake up, see    \ If there's no God, why      + "Where unadmired beings =
= the sun...what's / are there atheists?         + dread the due changes   =
= done is done..." \  -variation on St. Anselm's + ahead..."               =
=  -Ride: "Today"  /   Ontological Proof         +  -Red House Painters    =

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:44:14 -0500
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" (jenor@CSD.UWM.EDU)
Subject: band name sources (was Re: DeadCanDance)


On or about Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jake Reichert responded to a thread already
in progress thusly:

> >Eden's first cd sounds a bit like dcd.  they're now on projekt.  whenever
> >i hear the dcd line (can't remember which song right now)that says "I have a
> >son, his name is eden" i wonder if maybe that's where eden got it's
> >name.
>
> Actually, there have been a few bands around that have done this before.
> Like Shakespear's Sister from The Smiths' "Shakespeare's Sister", and I
> _think_ Chatherine Wheel from a Simple Minds song (although the name for
> both may have come from some other source originally).  Just wondering if
> anyone else knew any other interesting ones...
>

"Shakespeare's sister" is a reference to the writer's (hypothetical)
sister, and how poorly she'd've fared due to restrictions of women's
achievements, which Virginia Woolf described in her _Room of One's Own_
(whose title was borrowed, while we're on the topic, by a feminist
bookstore in Madison, Wisconsin...)

--Jeff

Jeffrey Norman                                           "The man likes milk,
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee                  now he owns a million cows
Dept. of English & Comp. Lit.               (can you imagine all that milk?)"

In my CD changer: Television _Marquee Moon_
                  The Cure _Pornography_
                  The Soft Boys _Invisible Hits_
                  The Replacements _Let It Be_

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:55:38 +0600
From: cz (ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance


>> Anyone heard any more bands on the 4AD label that sounds like Dead Can Dance
>>/
>> This Mortal Coil / Cocteau Twins except from His Name Is Alive ?

        Aaron Thorne replied:
>Eden's first cd sounds a bit like dcd.  they're now on projekt.  whenever
>i hear the dcd line (can't remember which song right now)that says "I have a
>son, his name is eden" i wonder if maybe that's where eden got it's
>name.  Anyone else like to comment on this group?  I think they're pretty
>good but kind of boring.

Well since Eden have been around at least a year prior to the release of
Aion (the album on which Black Son resides), i don't think that's valid.
Besides, i don't think Brendan is singing "his name is eden" in that song.
I do recommend Eden and Judgement of Paris to those who are want a vaguely
similar sound but don't expect another DCD.  I happen to like Eden's
"Gateway to the Mysteries" CD the best.  The new one on Projekt, "Fire and
Rain,"  is really good musically but the lyrics seem cheesier.

When the heck are Judgement of Paris coming out with a new CD?

But all this talk is irrelavent to the original poster since (s)he
inexplicably only wanted to know about which bands ON 4AD might sound like
them.

-cz

___<<<<<<<<<*********ckemnitz@students.wisc.edu********>>>>>>>>>___

"I pass death with the dying, and birth with the new-washed babe. . . . and
am not contained between my hat and boots..."     -Walt Whitman

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 01:51:34 -0500
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" (jenor@CSD.UWM.EDU)
Subject: 4AD, hold the "4"


On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, squaring the circle and studying Zen, Micah Newman

>         Here's the line of thought it's supposed to begin-- It probably only
> makes sense to me, but I'll try to put it in words. Okay, suppose
> there's no God...now we have all these people calling themselves atheists
> who have to actually say that they do not believe in the ultimate source
> of existence...if God really did not exist, it would make a lot more
> sense for there not to be this idea in the first place which certain
> people have to go out of their way to refute...not just any idea, the
> ultimate one.
>         Make sense? No? Oh well...

Of course, the same line of thought applies to unicorns, leprechauns, the
luminiferous ether, a good cheap apartment in NYC, and the new My Bloody
Valentine CD....

--Jeff
                                        The Church says: *The body is a sin.*
Jeffrey Norman                         Science says: *The body is a machine.*
U. of Wisconsin-Milwaukee         Advertising says: *The body is a business.*
Dept. of English & Comp. Lit.                 The body says: *I am a fiesta.*


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:25:47 PDT
From: Chris_Ayres.JNB01@INTL.RX.XEROX.COM
Subject: Re: band name sources....


>Actually, there have been a few bands around that have done this before.
>Like Shakespear's Sister from The Smiths' "Shakespeare's Sister", and I
>_think_ Chatherine Wheel from a Simple Minds song (although the name for
>both may have come from some other source originally).  Just wondering if
>anyone else knew any other interesting ones...

>Jake


Children on Stun taken from a song by the March Violets
(March Violets being a brilliant bunch, Children on Stun pretty good but not muc
 for originality?)


Walking in circles to avoid standing in corners
Chris.


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:25:49 -0500
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" (jenor@CSD.UWM.EDU)
Subject: Re: refutations


On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Micah Newman wrote:

>         Maybe another way to put it is this: people who don't believe in God
> don't do so because of objectivity. It's a decision, not based upon
> rationality, because certainly a planet with an ecosystem in which hundreds
> of billions of difference species live, and a human form whose incredible
> order and detail defies the understanding of the minds which occupy those
> bodies, to come about all by themselves is emphatically against all the
> laws of nature. And starting with this information, which we KNOW, the next
> logical conclusion is certainly not "there's no God, all these molecules
> organized themselves despite the 2nd law of Thermodynamics". So it makes
> a lot more sense for God to definitely exist. At least to me.
>

Well, among other things, I think you're overlooking the vastness of
*number*. Huh? Let's put it this way: if the odds against any given event
are, say 10^55 to 1 (that's "ten to the 55th power"), it's *very*
unlikely that that even will occur, right? Yes--but now take 10^55
*different* events, each of which have the same unlikely odds: what are
the odds that *at least one of them* will occur? 1 to 1, assuming no
relation between any of the events that either encourage or discourage
any of the other events. To be more specific: the odds are 365 to 1
against today being your birthday (never mind leap years). But, given
that this list has about that many members, the odds are quite good that
today is *someone's* birthday. (Happy birthday, whoever you are.)

We're talking billions & billions of years, in immeasurable space.
Granted that life of such complexity is unlikely--but that doesn't mean
that, overall, i tmight not happen. (And it did; we're here--so it seems
simultaneously very likely and extrmely unlikely, for different reasons)

I suspect some mathematecian will correct my example above (and some
other English major will correct my sloppy spelling)--but I still think the
general point holds.

At any rate, God as creator is not necessarily the same thing as
God-will-smite-you-dead-for-touching-your-willie--and it's the latter god
that most Christian religions seem inclined to worship.

Jeffrey Norman                                                   "matches..."
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee                                "candles..."
Dept. of English & Comp. Lit.                                    "matches..."


"buns?"

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:13:21 +0100
From: "'H'y" (hmc4@mailer.york.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: xmal deutschland help


I've also got a Peel Sessions 12" with four tracks from around 1983 I think.
'H'y

'H' Cambridge

Stockholm Environment Institute at York
University of York, York, Uk.
Tel +44 1904 432992
Fax +44 1904 432898

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:23:15 -0700
From: nOISEgIRLY k-j and jOHN (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: alles ist unfamiliar


  who are hope hull?


  noisegirly k  ...all alone at midnight and nuthin' to do...

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:13:43 -0600
From: Chadwick Dorton (cdorton@SLCPL.SLCPL.LIB.UT.US)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance


On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Elaun Laurene wrote:

> Jake wrote:
> >
> > Actually, there have been a few bands around that have done this before.
> > Like Shakespear's Sister from The Smiths' "Shakespeare's Sister", and I
> > _think_ Chatherine Wheel from a Simple Minds song (although the name for
> > both may have come from some other source originally).  Just wondering if
> > anyone else knew any other interesting ones...
>
> Didn't Slowdive take their name from a track on a Siouxsie album?  And
> here in Calgary we have a band called Glider courtesy of MBV.

No, actually, Slowdive came from a dream Niel (the male singer) had once.
He dreamt of two words, Slowdive and Slowburn.  This is according to an
Alternative Press interview I read.


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:38:45 +0100
From: Andrew Norman (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: the real death of rock and roll

              20, 95 06:39:15 pm

Jens Alfke  wrote:

[Theological/philosophical discussion snipped]
>
> ObThislisty: While in Germany last week I picked up "Ancient Lights and the
> Blackcore", the comp with Scorn and Seefeel. The Scorn track is nice,
> rather more ambient than their LPs. The three Seefeel tracks are variations
> on a theme and I found them actively annoying; little clinky samples looped
> together with no noticeable bass or vocals.

The Seefeel tracks sound half-finished to me - rather like Mark
Clifford's contribution to the "Imaginary Soundtracks" EP on Leaf
records.  I hope he's not going to develop the Richard James attitude
regarding quality control (i.e. put out anything you record).  The
other "side" of the CD consists of a lot of South American shamen
shouting and grunting, and something by Timothy Leary which I still
haven't got round to listening to yet - there's something about Leary I
find oddly repellent, but I can't put my finger on it.  Scorn don't
really do much for me - similarly, I bought mu-Ziq's "Salsa with
Mesquite" EP/album recently (EP price, 7 tracks, three quarters of an
hour).  Mike Paradinas has been touted as some sort of techno genius,
but on this evidence (and I have another EP and some compilation tracks
by him) he's just another chap with a sampler and a drum machine.

On the positive side:  I bought Main's "Hydra-Calm" when it came out
about five years ago, and wrote them off as Loop without the headache-
inducing riffing.  But suddenly I can't stop listening to "Motion Pool"
or the recent singles (which are "dark ambient" taken to extremes).  I
can't think of any other band where my opinions have changed this
radically.  "Thirst", which I originally thought was the most boring and
useless piece of "music" I had ever heard, now sounds like the highlight
of that first compilation.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England // nja@le.ac.uk // 21/09/95
On my walkman this morning : Inspiral Carpets - Singles
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:35:20 -0700
From: Andrew Dean (a.dean@UK22P.BULL.CO.UK)
Subject: Pram


‘Often I dared abandon the safety of my bed, ran the gauntlet of the
monsters lurking without, and clambered onto the shelf by my window,
where I stared out into the moveless night. At the lonely, sombre moon,
at the trains shuttling by in the distance, at the yawning black pit that
was the local park, searching for the spiteful, vindictive creature that
stole my father’s skin and staggered home from the pub in his place.
Sometimes I fell asleep there, and dreamed I was dangling from the ledge
on the opposing side of the pane once more, only this time Mr. Ross
didn’t scale the ladder quickly enough and I found myself falling,
falling...’

Jamie T. Conway, Melody Maker, September 23rd 1995 (although i think he
may be quoting something else here, anyone?)

There you go, that’s the way to review the new Pram lp and not that
dreadful attempt i mentioned last week. It goes on to say that Pram are
‘the sound of fearful nocturnal vigils, calliope music from a ghostly
carnival’. I agree, the new lp has got under my skin somewhat in the last
couple of days and is rolling around inside my head with only ‘Keeping
The Weekend Free’ for company.

Anyway, there was a point to this post. Somebody was asking about getting
hold of the first lp. The new lp contains an address for ‘Pram’s first
mini lp ‘gash’ and  the ‘perambulations’ compilation tape’:
Howl Records, c/o Pram / Howl Records, PO Box 4613, Moseley, Birmingham,
B13 9FD. England.
In ‘Helium’ it lists prices (mybe out of date): 7 pounds for us English
people or, for ‘overseas’, IMOs for 10 pounds sterling (airmail) or 8
pounds (surface), payable to M.Simpson. I wonder if Homer knows about
this...

andyx (a.dean@uk22p.bull.co.uk)
suddenly i notice the brightness of the day
makes the shadows deeper, makes the shadows darker...

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:42:31 -0700
From: nOISEgIRLY k-j and jOHN (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: the real death of rock and roll


> other "side" of the CD consists of a lot of South American shamen
> shouting and grunting, and something by Timothy Leary which I still
> haven't got round to listening to yet - there's something about Leary I
> find oddly repellent, but I can't put my finger on it.

  i'll tell you what's up with leary...he's a brilliant man and a looney
  toon...that is why he is so repellent, as you say. acid guru turned
  cyberpunk grandpa...after all these years, he's worn thin and
  outstayed his welcome...

> Scorn don't
> really do much for me


  i rather like the scorn tracks...probably moreso over the seefeel
  ones...


  k-j  ...she has your ice cold Nu Grape...


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:58:33 -0400
From: Larry Koch (larry@INTERLOG.COM)
Subject: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig


Jens asked:
>earlier releases but switched to "Laetitia" in 1993? Is the former a weird
>Frrrrench nickname for the latter?

It is indeed. It's just the last two syllables from her name (French
Laetitia (or L=E6titia if you prefer) as well.

>Actually,according to what I remember from my German(I haven't used it in
>about two years)the word xmal means "times"or "to multiply".So.in
>essence,Xmal Deutschland translated in the true German would be
>"Deutschland Deutschland".

Almost..."mal" by itself means "times" or "multiplied by", so Xmal
Deutschland means "X times Germany" or "Germany X number of times"

[Lush list]
>>>Shite.. Fuk.. hell und devil! i've been looking forward to the new EP
>>for
>>>a few months now.. boohoo.. i don't wanna live anymore!

Is it me, or do people who are heavily into Lush tend to be really immature?

Larry


Atheists exist quite happily in the absence of a god. We're just here to
remind everyone that there isn't one, just in case they get any dumb ideas.


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:41:56 -0400
From: Daniel Sobus (eleven@GROVE.UFL.EDU)
Subject: Pale Saints EP

          dreampop mailing list 

To all who replied to me about the copy of "Barging Into the Presence of
God" EP, I went to the record store and someone already beat me to it.
Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up too high! But I'll keep an eye out
because it has been in and out of there at least twice so far.

Daniel


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:14:28 -0700
From: nOISEgIRLY k-j and jOHN (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig


On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Larry Koch wrote:

> spyder:
> >Actually,according to what I remember from my German(I haven't used it in
> >about two years)the word xmal means "times"or "to multiply".So.in
> >essence,Xmal Deutschland translated in the true German would be
> >"Deutschland Deutschland".
>
> Almost..."mal" by itself means "times" or "multiplied by", so Xmal
> Deutschland means "X times Germany" or "Germany X number of times"

Hmmm.   I don't know any German, but asked a friend who was a German
exchange student what Xmal Deutschland meant.  She said "Germany Forever".
She also translated all the lyrics from (i think it was) Tocsin.  Very
unimpressive lyrics about killing people in their beds and stuff.  A
typical line would be something like:
    Fear me, I am coming to kill you while you sleep
    I am death, blah blah blah x100
    Death is fear so fear me
Garbage like that.
>
>
> Atheists exist quite happily in the absence of a god. We're just here to
> remind everyone that there isn't one, just in case they get any dumb ideas.
>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!

       -jOHN godless as ever


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:37:54 CST
From: thad.engeling@CCQM.NATINST.COM
Subject: Re: refutations


> because certainly a planet with an ecosystem in which hundreds
> of billions of difference species live, and a human form whose incredible
> order and detail defies the understanding of the minds which occupy those
> bodies, to come about all by themselves is emphatically against all the
> laws of nature. And starting with this information, which we KNOW, the next
> logical conclusion is certainly not "there's no God, all these molecules
> organized themselves despite the 2nd law of Thermodynamics".

This same old tired argument.
All this does is reveal your misunderstanding of the 2nd law of
Thermodynamics. Read some serious books on physics. The second law
does not prohibit organization on a localized basis.
All it says is that in a CLOSED system, the TOTAL entropy increases
over time.
There are lots of good books that describe the various theories that
are being developed that attempt to describe the evolution of the
universe as we understand it.
The solar system is an incredibly complicated system, but it's development
from "chaos" is well desribed. This does not go against the second law,
although on the surface it may appear to do so.
Some good books to read:
Dreams of a Final Theory - Steve Weinberg
The Emporor's New Mind - Roger Penrose
A Brief History of Time - (the name escapes right now)
The Mind of God - Paul Davies

later on,
Thad
"This isn't death, this is just a textural event"


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:42:25 -0400
From: Lawren Wu (Lawren_Wu@GATORMAIL.WI.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re: autechre tri repetae please


>what is amber what is garbage?

Amber is the latest Autechre album.  Garbage is an EP.

Lawren
lwu@wi.mit.edu

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:39:28 -0400
From: Lawren Wu (Lawren_Wu@GATORMAIL.WI.MIT.EDU)
Subject: Re: Twinlights


Seeing as there's been lots of talk recently about Twinlights, and Twinlights
is being released soon, I was wondering if someone could clarify whether
Twinlights is a full length album or not.  If not, are there any plans to
release a full length album soon?  Thanks.

Lawren
lwu@wi.mit.edu

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:43:14 -0700
From: Candice A Mack (mackc@WATNXT06.UCR.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance


> Actually, there have been a few bands around that have done this before.
> Like Shakespear's Sister from The Smiths' "Shakespeare's Sister", and I
> _think_ Chatherine Wheel from a Simple Minds song (although the name for
> both may have come from some other source originally).  Just wondering if
> anyone else knew any other interesting ones...


There's also the Sisters of Mercy from the Leonard Cohen song, "The
Sisters of Mercy."

--candice


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:02:29 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: a cure question

              <199509210124.SAA29575@ix6.ix.netcom.com>

tell me how i can get kiss me singles if you can

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:06:00 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Please "kick me off"

              <41574.s945870@mailserv.cuhk.hk>

me,too!

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:15:49 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: autechre tri repetae please

              <9509211549.AA05062@genome.wi.mit.edu>

thanks a lot. i was hoping you werent htinking you are garbage.

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:08:22 -0700
From: Sharkless girl a/k/a Kayleigh (uthelene@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: m7x


You wrote:
>
>i hope that too many people deleted this message as soon as they saw
>the message line, myself being a huge area, m7x and lanterna fan
>but the great henry frane of all of the above
>is visiting and could be available to answer some questions
>about the third m7x album coming out on roadrunner
>(soon hopefully! or at least in 6 months)
>so if there is anything you ever wondered you can e-mail me before
friday
being that i went to school in champaign, are these guys outta school
yet or are they eternal students?  several bands from champaign who
were destined for great things, fell apart because the school thing
came to an end.

and the ultimate ?, what do you prefer boxers or briefs...

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:04:07 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: to the sky, the cure

              <01HVIK5WIXDEHSJL6U@grove.iup.edu>

please tell me how 2 get this someone or any kiss me singles


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:33:49 -0400
From: ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: refutations (i.e., NO MUSICAL CONTENT)


>Some philosophical refutations.

>>        Make sense? No? Oh well...

Nope.

>Makes no sense. The existence/nonexistence of any entity has nothing to do
>with the existence/nonexistence of ideas related to that entity. Otherwise
>we could "prove" that Smurfs exist by noting that the idea of Smurfs
>exists.

Except, of course, that the thought of thinking does have something to do
with the existence/nonexistence of an entity capable of thinking.  To lend
validity to this  i'll quote it in latin:  "Cogito ergo sum."

>Whether or not God exists is not up for logical debate; this is fallout
>from the house-cleaning David Hume gave philosophy in the 1700s. If you
>want to believe, go ahead, but there are no proofs or other rational
>arguments either way. Myself, I swore off believing in things on faith
>alone after I got the bad news about Santa Claus.

But then again, there are no rational proofs of LOGIC itself.  You are right
in pointing out Anselm's error.  He essential said:  "IF there is something
perfect, that perfect thing is omnicient, omnipotent, and exists.  I call
this perfect thing God."  It's not so bad exept for the existence part:  IF
x THEN x is a pretty lame statement.  But in essence any argument for the
validity of logic itself must resort to that same argument:  "IF logic
holds, then logical arguments hold."  Sorry, but you're left with faith.
You just choose what to have faith in.

-St. Nick

        ff wrote :
>On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Micah Newman wrote:
>
>>"there's no God, all these molecules
>> organized themselves despite the 2nd law of Thermodynamics". So it makes
>> a lot more sense for God to definitely exist. At least to me.
>>
>Well, among other things, I think you're overlooking the vastness of
>*number*. Huh? Let's put it this way: if the odds against any given event
>are, say 10^55 to 1 (that's "ten to the 55th power"), it's *very*
>unlikely that that even will occur, right? Yes--but now take 10^55
>*different* events, each of which have the same unlikely odds: what are
>the odds that *at least one of them* will occur? 1 to 1, assuming no
>relation between any of the events that either encourage or discourage
>any of the other events. ...
>We're talking billions & billions of years, in immeasurable space.
>Granted that life of such complexity is unlikely--but that doesn't mean
>that, overall, i tmight not happen. (And it did; we're here--so it seems
>simultaneously very likely and extrmely unlikely, for different reasons)
        (ah, but that's what you're trying to prove, that it did happen
randomly
        and not by design--lets not get circular again)
>I suspect some mathematecian will correct my example above (and some
>other English major will correct my sloppy spelling)--but I still think the
>general point holds.

Yep, or maybe a chemist.  Chances are NOT "1 to 1" OR 100% that flipping a
coin twice will produce at least one head.  The chances are (1 - 1/2^2 =)
75% and the chances only approach 100% as the number of iterations
approaches infinity.  As the chance of winning your "coin flip" go down the
odds of winning at least once in an equal number of flips also goes down.
If you roll a die 6 times your chance of getting at least one '1' is only
(1-5/6^6 =) 67%.

Your concept is fine (increased numbers produce increased chances) but you
still haven't addressed the seeming contradiction over the second law of
thermodynamics.

>At any rate, God as creator is not necessarily the same thing as
>God-will-smite-you-dead-for-touching-your-willie--and it's the latter god
>that most Christian religions seem inclined to worship.

I like this statement the best.

>"buns?"

Yes, please.  And pass the mustard.

-cz   ... it's my unbirthday today...

___<<<<<<<<<*********ckemnitz@students.wisc.edu********>>>>>>>>>___

"I pass death with the dying, and birth with the new-washed babe. . . . and
am not contained between my hat and boots..."     -Walt Whitman

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:11:48 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance

              

all slowdivers pleas mail me personally...any from England?

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:13:18 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig

              <199509211105.HAA13814@gold.interlog.com>

a note to all atheists... i accept your beliefs but mine tell me that science
is mostly human bullshit. where do emotions come from? the great spirit
watches over all.


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:00:05 EDT
From: LGC2C@DMT03.MCC.VIRGINIA.EDU
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance

              

An important message from our sponsor...
I am sorry but I can't help asking, is everyone's point of reference THAT
narrow?  These are not particularly obscure names.  It depresses me that
we have become perhaps a generation that knows only what our TV (and now
internet) feeds us.  Man...

Gay

Gay Church
Department of Internal Medicine
lgc2c@virginia.mcc.edu
is unit plugged in?

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:04:02 -0700
From: Matthew Polder (mpolder@LYNX.PS.UCI.EDU)
Subject: xmal deutchland for sale/trade


I noticed that on the list yesterday somebody wanted an xmal CD. Have one
at home, not sure if it's fetish or tocsin, but I'd be willing to sell or
trade it. I bought it used and don't really listen to it that much. Any
interest? Email me personally.

Thanks,

matthew

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:33:49 -0400
From: ckemnitz@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: refutations (i.e., NO MUSICAL CONTENT)


>Some philosophical refutations.

>>        Make sense? No? Oh well...

Nope.

>Makes no sense. The existence/nonexistence of any entity has nothing to do
>with the existence/nonexistence of ideas related to that entity. Otherwise
>we could "prove" that Smurfs exist by noting that the idea of Smurfs
>exists.

Except, of course, that the thought of thinking does have something to do
with the existence/nonexistence of an entity capable of thinking.  To lend
validity to this  i'll quote it in latin:  "Cogito ergo sum."

>Whether or not God exists is not up for logical debate; this is fallout
>from the house-cleaning David Hume gave philosophy in the 1700s. If you
>want to believe, go ahead, but there are no proofs or other rational
>arguments either way. Myself, I swore off believing in things on faith
>alone after I got the bad news about Santa Claus.

But then again, there are no rational proofs of LOGIC itself.  You are right
in pointing out Anselm's error.  He essential said:  "IF there is something
perfect, that perfect thing is omnicient, omnipotent, and exists.  I call
this perfect thing God."  It's not so bad exept for the existence part:  IF
x THEN x is a pretty lame statement.  But in essence any argument for the
validity of logic itself must resort to that same argument:  "IF logic
holds, then logical arguments hold."  Sorry, but you're left with faith.
You just choose what to have faith in.

-St. Nick

        ff wrote :
>On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Micah Newman wrote:
>
>>"there's no God, all these molecules
>> organized themselves despite the 2nd law of Thermodynamics". So it makes
>> a lot more sense for God to definitely exist. At least to me.
>>
>Well, among other things, I think you're overlooking the vastness of
>*number*. Huh? Let's put it this way: if the odds against any given event
>are, say 10^55 to 1 (that's "ten to the 55th power"), it's *very*
>unlikely that that even will occur, right? Yes--but now take 10^55
>*different* events, each of which have the same unlikely odds: what are
>the odds that *at least one of them* will occur? 1 to 1, assuming no
>relation between any of the events that either encourage or discourage
>any of the other events. ...
>We're talking billions & billions of years, in immeasurable space.
>Granted that life of such complexity is unlikely--but that doesn't mean
>that, overall, i tmight not happen. (And it did; we're here--so it seems
>simultaneously very likely and extrmely unlikely, for different reasons)
        (ah, but that's what you're trying to prove, that it did happen
randomly
        and not by design--lets not get circular again)
>I suspect some mathematecian will correct my example above (and some
>other English major will correct my sloppy spelling)--but I still think the
>general point holds.

Yep, or maybe a chemist.  Chances are NOT "1 to 1" OR 100% that flipping a
coin twice will produce at least one head.  The chances are (1 - 1/2^2 =)
75% and the chances only approach 100% as the number of iterations
approaches infinity.  As the chance of winning your "coin flip" go down the
odds of winning at least once in an equal number of flips also goes down.
If you roll a die 6 times your chance of getting at least one '1' is only
(1-5/6^6 =) 67%.

Your concept is fine (increased numbers produce increased chances) but you
still haven't addressed the seeming contradiction over the second law of
thermodynamics.

>At any rate, God as creator is not necessarily the same thing as
>God-will-smite-you-dead-for-touching-your-willie--and it's the latter god
>that most Christian religions seem inclined to worship.

I like this statement the best.

>"buns?"

Yes, please.  And pass the mustard.

-cz   ... it's my unbirthday today...

___<<<<<<<<<*********ckemnitz@students.wisc.edu********>>>>>>>>>___

"I pass death with the dying, and birth with the new-washed babe. . . . and
am not contained between my hat and boots..."     -Walt Whitman


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:42:56 -0400
From: Ron Jost (RON@SYBEX.COM)
Subject: Band names


I'm not sure if this discussion was limited to bands that got their
names from other bands' songs, but, for what it's worth, I think Pale
Saints got their name from a Stephane Mallarme poem called "Saint."
The poem is about a "musician of silence" and reminds me a lot of
Pale Saints' music.  Also, does anyone know where Red House
Painters got their name from?


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:22:47 -0500
From: MGARRETT@DEPAUW.EDU
Subject: think I'm getting the hang of it promo


Vinyl Ink mailorder has at least one copy of this to sell by mailorder
for $15.00 (not including shipping charges). If anyone's interested,
contact them at vinylink@ari.net

public service,
Mike


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:11:48 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance

              

all slowdivers pleas mail me personally...any from England?

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:13:18 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Seaya/Laetitia, German, Lush list, obligatory atheism .sig

              <199509211105.HAA13814@gold.interlog.com>

a note to all atheists... i accept your beliefs but mine tell me that science
is mostly human bullshit. where do emotions come from? the great spirit
watches over all.

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:07:19 -0400
From: "(Zach Martinchek)" (X95MARTINCHE@WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: DeadCanDance

              

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE MY FELLOW MY BLOODY VALENTINE FANS ARE AND
HAVE THEM ALL MAIL ME PERSONALLY
"oh well you know its up to you sugar think what we could do"
any female belinda butcher fans would be nice also...i need valentine fan
friends!


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:26:44 CST
From: eric (eewittme@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU)
Subject: way too much


In Message Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:42:56 -0400, Ron Jost  writes:

>I'm not sure if this discussion was limited to bands that got their
>names from other bands' songs, but, for what it's worth, I think Pale
>Saints got their name from a Stephane Mallarme poem called "Saint."
>The poem is about a "musician of silence" and reminds me a lot of
>Pale Saints' music.  Also, does anyone know where Red House
>Painters got their name from?

2 birds with one stone:  Another listie told me that the Comforts of Madness
album is named after a book (sorry if this is common knowledge).  I read it,
and it's one of the strangest books I've ever read (then again, what else
would you expect from Ian and the boys?).  About the life of a catatonic,
told in first person.  warped.  read it!

MBV fans are found on the mbv mailing list (duh!)  To sub, mail to
majordomo@mbv.com with subscribe mbv-l and your e-mail address.

And is hairshoes not one of the coolest songs on earth?

eric

oh, and happy unbirthday cz, there three birds.


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 9-21-1995