4ad-l Mail for 05-23-1995

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: 4ad mac software
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 01:18:56 -0400
From: Lucius Kwok (lucius@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: moose discog
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 22:49:51 -0700
From: Aaron Thorne (fearless@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Ivory Library tour dates
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 00:00:53 -0600
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Re: peter murphy-120min
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 06:11:12 -0400
From: "Lisa R. Chong" (yku00471@YORKU.CA)
Subject: Re: Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau again
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 08:09:09 -0400
From: MCINTYRE@PA.MSU.EDU
Subject: Great collecting stories..
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:44:03 +0100
From: AG Wappat (G.S.Walker@DURHAM.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Any Bettie Serveert fans out there?
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:50:01 -0400
From: m i c h a e l (maxelson@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: cocteau
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:30:57 -0400
From: Elisabeth Reynolds (ereynold@ENCORE.COM)
Subject: Re: cocteau
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 10:49:46 -0700
From: nelson@NOTW33.ASTRO.UCLA.EDU
Subject: 'great moments in collecting'
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:41:32 -0700
From: "Reality's email account" (mcclure@MUGWUMP.UCSD.EDU)
Subject: Re: cocteau
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:27:13 EDT
From: "Joe A. Casey" (Joe_A._Casey@NOTES.PW.COM)
Subject: Re: cocteau
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:46:53 -0400
From: MCINTYRE@PA.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple Cocteau Minds
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 12:21:48 -0700
From: David Mccallum (mccallum@EFN.ORG)
Subject: Re: 'great moments in collecting'
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:00:55 -0700
From: vilexile (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: 'great moments in collecting'
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:21:21 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: rupert the bear
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:31:47 -0400
From: Ann Lin Phillips Academy 97 (alin@k12.oit.umass.edu)
Subject: Re: Red House Painters
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 23:55:17 -0500
From: Espen Sommer Eide (espens@ISL.UIT.NO)
Subject: Kaspell/Cocteau/Simple Minds
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:28:37 -0800
From: "Heileson, Thom" (heilts1@MACGWX.GHC.ORG)
Subject: Re: Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau again
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:07:27 -0500
From: "Kendal . . ." (kobermey@UNLGRAD1.UNL.EDU)
Subject: p. murphy does cocteau
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 00:18:53 -0400
From: "Lisa R. Chong" (yku00471@YORKU.CA)

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 01:18:56 -0400
From: Lucius Kwok (lucius@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4ad mac software


On Sat, 20 May 1995, MR NORMAN N LEVENSTEIN wrote:

> -- [ From: Norman Levenstein * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
>
> some time ago, there was mention of an interactive LUSH promo for
> macintosh. can this be downloaded somewhere on the web?
>
I don't remember where I got it from, but I have a copy of the LUSH
promo. If you want Lush info, there's Reality's Lush Homepage
   
but it doesn't have the LUSH promo.  However, I can mail it to if you
really want it. I think America Online had it in the Warner section before.

I haven't had any problems with it. I thought it was really well-done,
except for the animation which wasn't too smooth. It really is in the
same spirit as the booklet that comes with the CD _Split_.

I couldn't understand what the artists were saying in the "Lemons"
section, though. I think it's just because I'm not used to a British
accent.


--- Lucius Kwok  (lucius@astro.ocis.temple.edu) ---


Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 22:49:51 -0700
From: Aaron Thorne (fearless@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: moose discog

              i wrote my letters in kanji" 
              dreampop mailing list 

i'm sure someone else can be of more help than me but i'll give it a
shot.  i, too, have the sonny and sam ep.  i bought it after seeing the
video for jack on mtv.  i don't think it sold well in the u.s. though.  the
sticker on the outside of the package said "contains over 32 minutes of music".
i guess they were trying to appeal to the thrifty shoppers.  the inside cover
lists 3 more eps.  i believe the songs on sonny and sam were taken from
these.  since then, the only thing i've found is another ep called
"little bird (are you happy in your cage?)"-- very different from the
earlier stuff.  i have the new album, "honey bee", on order from cd now,
but it's taking a long time.  there's some info about them on the cocteau
twins page.  i'd love to hear more about moose from anyone more
knowledgeable.

aaron

On Mon, 22 May 1995, lushmuse...i drank too much tea, i wrote my letters in kanj
 wrote:

> hey 4ad-ers and dreampoppers!!
>
>       i was wondering if any of you know or have the discography of
> moose?  their stuff is so hard to find.  my friend has "sonny of sam"
> and it supposed to be a domestic release and i can't find that one
> either!  any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> thanks!
>

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 00:00:53 -0600
From: mesocyclone (soon@UNM.EDU)
Subject: Re: Ivory Library tour dates


  Of course they wouldn't be coming here, out West.  Oh well, looks like
I get to miss out on yet another opportunity to see a really cool band
perform  *sigh*  *wail*  Oh the injustice!


##############################################################################
Amber   ......broadcasting from the edge of the madding crowd......     Storm
Waves            Will Coucheron-Aamot a.k.a. soon@unm.edu               In The
 Of                    "the most beautiful noise"                       Ocean
Noise                      my bloody valentine                           Sky
##############################################################################


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 06:11:12 -0400
From: "Lisa R. Chong" (yku00471@YORKU.CA)
Subject: Re: peter murphy-120min

              murphy-120min" (May 22, 11:05am)

On May 22, 11:05am, Holly A. Hopey wrote:
> Subject: Re: peter murphy-120min
> Just wanted to let any Peter Murphy fans know that he will be hosting
> MTV's 120 Minutes next Sunday (day before Memorial day) at midnight.

f*ck. we don't get MTV up here..

i did read that he was going to be on jon stewart tonight i think..  still
not the same thing, though.

Lisa.


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 08:09:09 -0400
From: MCINTYRE@PA.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau again


>  Cocteau was also present in Paris prior to even the twenties...over
>the years, he even dabbled in fashion illustration and heroine.  Read
>about him if you like; the biography "Cocteau" by Francis Steegmuller
>is very interesting.  Does anyone know about other films like the
>death of a poet or (something about) orpheus? The stills from them in
>that book are just godlike :)

Cocteau had quite a varied career, films, poetry, set design for a
Stravinsky opera, etc.  I'll second the recommendation of the Steegmuller
biography and suggest Cocteau's own writings.  His diaries have been
published, including _Diary of A Film_, his account of the filming of
_Beauty and The Beast_.  (And those of you who only know the story from the
Disney version are most strongly urged to check out Cocteau's version where
the fairy tale is presented with real magic.)  An interesting antecdote is
how Cocteau came to make _Beauty and the Beast_.  Jean Maris, his leading
man, felt he wasn't getting proper respect from the critics who dismissed
him as just a pretty face.  Maris asked Cocteau to give him a role in which
he could prove he was an actor, and Cocteau cast him as the Beast.  And
Maris came through wonderfully.

_Orpheus_ is a somewhat strange updating/retelling of the Greek myth set in
post-WWII Paris.  There's some wonderful shots of Death going in and out of
mirrors with the explanation that "Mirrors are the means by which Death
moves from one world to the next.  Look in any mirror and see Death at
work."

_Blood Of A Poet_ is extremely surreal, which in my lexicon means "visually
stunning but darned if I know what it *means*." (-8  However, the one time
I saw it was without subtitles and there is a lot of French narration, so
perhaps those who can handle the language barrier can interpret for those
of us who are limited to a poor grasp of English.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept
Michigan State University


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:44:03 +0100
From: AG Wappat (G.S.Walker@DURHAM.AC.UK)
Subject: Great collecting stories..


One of these isn't true...
(1) Finding two copies of Natures Mortes at one record fair and buying
    them from the same guy for 20 and 25 pounds each, back in 1988.
(2) Buying three copies of Peppermint Pig 7" for three pounds each, 1987.
(3) Getting the promo of Sugar Hiccup 7" for 5 pounds by mail order.
(4) Getting the Pixies to sign all their early stuff, and the Doolittle
    poster and postcard sets. This was before Charles got an ego problem.
(5) Being given the Eyesore pine box set by Mick Allen, through a
    mutual friend, because Mick doesn't think too much of Vaughn's "Over
    Indulgence".
(6) Deborah at 4AD sending loads of press photos, with which to blag my
    way backstage in the old days, and get them all signed.
Andrew.

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:50:01 -0400
From: m i c h a e l (maxelson@UMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: Any Bettie Serveert fans out there?


i have both bettie albums and they are very good, well i like them
the y both kind of sound the same but are pretty good.  I like palomine
better but lamprey is not bad
the b sides onthe crutches 10 inch are very good

michael


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:30:57 -0400
From: Elisabeth Reynolds (ereynold@ENCORE.COM)
Subject: Re: cocteau


Matthew said:
>What ever happened to the obvious connection to Jean Cocteau, ...

I always assumed that the name "Cocteau Twins" was a reference
to Jean Cocteau's novel _Les Enfants Terribles_.  The book is
about two orphaned adolescents -- a brother and sister -- who
live in their own insular, dreamlike world.  It certainly
seems to fit.

I've heard Liz and Robin's explanation about their gay friends
who liked Jean Cocteau, but I really can't believe they
weren't aware of the _Les Enfants Terribles_ connection -- the
sister in the book was even named "Elizabeth".

Incidently, the novel is short and well worth the read for
interested CT fans.  Most editions contain illustrations by
the author himself.

A movie  was also made of the novel, though not directed by
Jean Cocteau (he may have written the screenplay).  I don't
think it's available on video, though.

--

ereynold@encore.com


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 10:49:46 -0700
From: nelson@NOTW33.ASTRO.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Re: cocteau


For the record, the Cocteau Twins got their name from a
Simple Minds song called "The Cocteau Twins". This song
was later released on the Simple Minds' fisrt album
_Life In A Day_ with different lyrics as "No Cure".
Any connection to Jean Cocteau is purely coincidental.

Now, if you want Cocteau connections, check out Bill Nelson.
his now defunct record label, Cocteau, and his musical
interpretation of "Le Belle et Le Bete". I don't know the
whole story, but Jean Cocteau has apparently long been a
hero of Bill Nelson's.

|     Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567     | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:41:32 -0700
From: "Reality's email account" (mcclure@MUGWUMP.UCSD.EDU)
Subject: 'great moments in collecting'


Finally a topic worth de-lurking for! (Though if I had the time,
I'd review new purchases of Alison's Halo, Half String, Scenic,
Whirlpool magazine, Chinchilla, etc.)

My greatest collecting story is only tangentially related to me...
Me mate, Edmund, picked up a box of records for a quid (~$1.50US)
at a Sunday morning boot sale.  Over the next few weeks, he diligently
gave each of the records a quick listen, throwing most of them in
the "donate-to-the-local-Oxfam-shop" pile.  This pile duly went to
the shop.  The next week, he's reading an article in _Record
Collector_ about Foetus/J.G. Thirlwell (the guy remixing NiN songs
in an earlier message of dubious 4ADness... but who am I to say
anything? :-)  This article noted the existence of Foetus' first
appearance on vinyl, as part of an early synthpop/industrial
collective known as No Cowboys, who had produced only a single LP
that nobody ever seems to have found.  Valued at anywhere from
50-100 pounds.  Well, you guessed it:  Edmund recalled having picked
up that disc at the boot sale and, thinking it utter shite, took
it to the Oxfam.  Now realizing what he had done, he dutifully went
to the Oxfam shoppe and *bought*it*back* for 50p (~75centsUS).
Less than 3 bucks for an album so rare that nobody is even sure of
its value... not bad!

My connection to the story?  Edmund graciously gave me the record
on the condition that I listen to it and tell him... honestly...
what I think. (I think his pride was wounded at the possibility
that he had not recognized the primordial greatness of this record.)
Oh yeah, the record really sucks rocks... but you can definitely
hear the pre-Foetus sound every now and then.  Jim is credited with
playing a vacuum cleaner and "Speculator (tm)" [sic], whatever that
is.

Reality

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:27:13 EDT
From: "Joe A. Casey" (Joe_A._Casey@NOTES.PW.COM)
Subject: Re: cocteau


Does anyone know when if a new CT album is in the works or to be released?
Hopefully it will continue in the grandeur of calendar cafe majenticism.

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:46:53 -0400
From: MCINTYRE@PA.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: cocteau



>Now, if you want Cocteau connections, check out Bill Nelson.
>his now defunct record label, Cocteau, and his musical
>interpretation of "Le Belle et Le Bete". I don't know the
>whole story, but Jean Cocteau has apparently long been a
>hero of Bill Nelson's.

Indeed, indeed.  Check out early Be Bop Deluxe with Nelson's ode to
Cocteau "Sign Your Name With A Star", which is how Cocteau would frequently
autograph things.  And "The Sleep That Burns" is a wonderful attempt at a
Cocteau styled rock song.  Of course, Bill doesn't confine himself to
Cocteau.  Fritz Lang was a big influence on "Live In The Air Age" with its
cover shot from _Metropolis_.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept
Michigan State University

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 12:21:48 -0700
From: David Mccallum (mccallum@EFN.ORG)
Subject: Re: Simple Cocteau Minds


        So now the question is why would Simple Minds name a song
"The Cocteau Twins"?  Has anyone heard the song or know what it is about?

        My thought is it still has to do with Jean Cocteau as Cocteau is
only a name and doesn't have any meaning as a word otherwise.

        David.


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:00:55 -0700
From: vilexile (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: 'great moments in collecting'


On Tue, 23 May 1995, Reality's email account wrote:

>  The next week, he's reading an article in _Record
> Collector_ about Foetus/J.G. Thirlwell (the guy remixing NiN songs
> in an earlier message of dubious 4ADness... but who am I to say
> anything? :-)

Well, all the lil 4adlies seemed to want it. O8)

> This article noted the existence of Foetus' first
> appearance on vinyl, as part of an early synthpop/industrial
> collective known as No Cowboys, who had produced only a single LP
> that nobody ever seems to have found.  Valued at anywhere from
> 50-100 pounds.  Well, you guessed it:  Edmund recalled having picked
> up that disc at the boot sale and, thinking it utter shite, took
> it to the Oxfam.  Now realizing what he had done, he dutifully went
> to the Oxfam shoppe and *bought*it*back* for 50p (~75centsUS).
> Less than 3 bucks for an album so rare that nobody is even sure of
> its value... not bad!

I saw his first three solo albums (which almost no one has even heard of
and I have never seen) for sale on wsd-l for around $100 a shot. I don't
know why...but I often see Nurse with Wound vinyl up for that kind of
money, too. I'm sure someone on that list would like this little treasure
of yours.

> Oh yeah, the record really sucks rocks... but you can definitely
> hear the pre-Foetus sound every now and then.  Jim is credited with
> playing a vacuum cleaner and "Speculator (tm)" [sic], whatever that
> is.

Probably a predecessor to the 'sheep ventilator guitar'. ;)

e

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 13:21:21 -0700
From: Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- (beswick@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: 'great moments in collecting'


I guess a free copy of 13YI is nothing to scoff at...

Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:31:47 -0400
From: Ann Lin Phillips Academy 97 (alin@k12.oit.umass.edu)
Subject: rupert the bear


hi. i've been looking for the "lit up (demo)/ rupert the bear" 7"
by lush for some time now. do any of you know where i can get a copy
of it?


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 23:55:17 -0500
From: Espen Sommer Eide (espens@ISL.UIT.NO)
Subject: Re: Red House Painters


James J Casey wrote:
>>   What is the extra track on the vinyl version of "Ocean Beach"??
>>
>The extra track is also on the CD version and appears to be a dreary jam
>session put on the album for kicks.
No, the vinyl version has one extra song + the jam session. The extra one
is a cover of an old Yes song, I think.


- Espen (espens@hugin.isl.uit.no) "Quia ignoro adoro"
------------------------------------
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself (I am large, I
contain multitudes)." - Walt Whitman


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:28:37 -0800
From: "Heileson, Thom" (heilts1@MACGWX.GHC.ORG)
Subject: Kaspell/Cocteau/Simple Minds


>> "She bought the world, I paid the bills, I took those pills it was wind
>> in her sails, she climbed so high"
>>
>> Is this Legendary Pink Dots?
>
>Christ, I said the same thing a few days ago. You aren't mocking me, are
>you?

Sheer synchronicity, my son.

>Is this not a *classic* Kaspel lyric? I can almost hear him singing
>it (even with this awful MBV record on)..."She cwihmed so hieeeeeeyyy!!"
>him on occasion.)

He's one of those quirky characters who seems like he wouldn't mind (or
notice) being made fun of... in a misunderstood-genius sort-of-way...

Saw him for the Maria Dimension tour years ago... he was dressed in a black
robe and had the mannerisms of an alchemist at work.

***

>Personal favorites are Any Day Now, Island of Jewels, Faces in the Fire,
>and The Maria Dimension. 9 Lives to Wonder was also quite a comeback
>after Malachai and its equally unworthy twin. They are definitely a band
>in flux, and you do have to take the bad with the good.
>
>I have not heard, nor been able to find, Four Days. Can you clue me in a
>little?

Can anyone describe the LPD albums that were released after Maria Dimension?
For some unforgiveable reason, I lost track of them after "Tanith and the
Lion Tree"...

***

>>-- [ From: Norman Levenstein * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
>>
>>some time ago, there was mention of an interactive LUSH promo for
>>macintosh. can this be downloaded somewhere on the web?
>>
>>-bruce
>
>I got it from aol a while back. I haven't seen it on the web at all, but if
>you really can't find it, let me know and maybe I can send it to you.
>
>r

Just wanted to say I would be very interested in this (esp. as I own a Mac).

***

>> A: That fun-loving Robin Guthrie has said misleading things about it in
some
>> interviews, but the actual truth is that it was the name of an early
Simple
>> Minds song. No one having been able to find a song of this name on any
Simple
>> Minds record, Brant Nelson finally asked Robin himself and was told that
it's
>> on the first SM album but under a different title.
>
>What ever happened to the obvious connection to Jean Cocteau, a french
>dream researcher? I don't remember when he did his work, but apparantly his
>work is well known in the field.

Dream researcher? Yes, but also great film maker! Check out "Orpheus" and
others. Of course (Cocteau having worked many years before Simple Minds) the
Simple Minds song is a reference to Jean! So CT were being fashionably early
in being Post Modern about their name.

Speaking of Simple Minds... Anyone else a fan of the very early material?
i.e. Real to Real Cacophony, Empires and Dance, Sons and Fascination --
brilliant, surreal, strangely dark and artsy -- miles above anything they did
in the late 80s... and 90s SI? Please die! Such a sad fall from grace...
Probably because they stopped taking drugs [like Robin Guthrie]    :)

    + ---    Thom S. Heileson
   + +-             oR                 [antiAxiomaticism unlimited]
    + -    phASER@cyberspace.com

           heilts1@macgw.ghc.org

           "I'll give you an example, typically.
    It's less complicated than it simply should be." - Wire


Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:07:27 -0500
From: "Kendal . . ." (kobermey@UNLGRAD1.UNL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau and Jean Cocteau again

              at May 23, 95 08:09:09 am

>
> >From:         "Kendal . . ." 
> >  Cocteau was also present in Paris prior to even the twenties...over
> >the years, he even dabbled in fashion illustration and heroine.  Read
> >about him if you like; the biography "Cocteau" by Francis Steegmuller
> >is very interesting.  Does anyone know about other films like the
> >death of a poet or (something about) orpheus? The stills from them in
> >that book are just godlike :)
>
> Cocteau had quite a varied career, films, poetry, set design for a
> Stravinsky opera, etc.  I'll second the recommendation of the Steegmuller
> biography and suggest Cocteau's own writings.  His diaries have been
> published, including _Diary of A Film_, his account of the filming of
> _Beauty and The Beast_.  (And those of you who only know the story from the
> Disney version are most strongly urged to check out Cocteau's version where
> the fairy tale is presented with real magic.)  An interesting antecdote is
> how Cocteau came to make _Beauty and the Beast_.  Jean Maris, his leading
> man, felt he wasn't getting proper respect from the critics who dismissed
> him as just a pretty face.  Maris asked Cocteau to give him a role in which
> he could prove he was an actor, and Cocteau cast him as the Beast.  And
> Maris came through wonderfully.
>
> _Orpheus_ is a somewhat strange updating/retelling of the Greek myth set in
> post-WWII Paris.  There's some wonderful shots of Death going in and out of
> mirrors with the explanation that "Mirrors are the means by which Death
> moves from one world to the next.  Look in any mirror and see Death at
> work."
>
> _Blood Of A Poet_ is extremely surreal, which in my lexicon means "visually
> stunning but darned if I know what it *means*." (-8  However, the one time
> I saw it was without subtitles and there is a lot of French narration, so
> perhaps those who can handle the language barrier can interpret for those
> of us who are limited to a poor grasp of English.
>
> John McIntyre
> Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept
> Michigan State University
>
    ***are any of these even remotely "locateable" on videotape?
     I know it's a longshot ;) ***


Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 00:18:53 -0400
From: "Lisa R. Chong" (yku00471@YORKU.CA)
Subject: p. murphy does cocteau


hi..
        i forgot to add that peter murphy's video for "all night long"
contains images inspired by stuff from "beauty and the beast"- the pearl
necklace, b/w dreamy images.. the song itself contains a sample from the
film. It's in the middle of the song, and the Beast is speaking: "belle.. une
rose qui joue a son role..."


--Lisa.


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 5-23-1995