Subject: 4ad mailorder email address / pale saints
Subject: Re: Belly EP
Subject: Re: Trivia!
Subject: Propaganda magazine's Cocteau Twins article
Subject: Re: Propaganda magazine's Cocteau Twins article
Subject: Reply to Propaganda magazine's Cocteau Twins article
Subject: Re: Trivia!
Subject: Re: Propaganda magazine's Cocteau Twins article
Subject: Wir(e)
Subject: Re: Trivia!
Subject: Re: NEW CT EP INFO!!!!
Subject: Re: Trivia!
Subject: Re: Garlands error
Subject: Re: Propaganda magazine's Cocteau Twins article
Subject: This Rimy DELUXE
Subject: Re: Wir(e)
Subject: Re: NEW CT EP INFO!!!!
Subject: Re: Garlands error
Subject: Re: This Rimy DELUXE
Subject: Re: Garlands error
Subject: A note on prices
Subject: Misc digested
Subject: Re: Edward Kaspel
Subject: Re: Trivia!
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:00:01 -0700
[email protected] was asking about this. i've
emailed him already with the details but thought i'd post it too. to
anybody that isn't a member of the mailorder thing i'd recommend it for
the catalogue alone, not to mention the regular updates and postings.
anyway, here's the beef (it was quoted on the 1st mail order newsletter
but i haven't used it myself so um, caveat emptor (?)):
[email protected]
pale saints are playing tonight (19th may) in london (the new cross
venue, 2a clifton rise) if anybody's interested. and buy a copy of the
nme on the way there because there's two pounds off with the advert on
page 48 before 10 o'clock(?) (making it three quid) (the advert was also
in the last two weeks' nmes but has not been in the melody maker). i'll
probably be there, bark psychosis tee shirt, sat at the back reading the
bell jar, come and say hello, except those of you in america who probably
won't be able to make it over here in time, sorry.
cheers, andyx
--
([email protected])
commonplace, everyday...
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 17:58:40 MET
Ivo Lorelei -{Gothique Extraordinaire}- Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:22:19 -0500
How much would Liliput be worth? Is it supposed to have the nasty
packing tape binding?
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 00:44:12 -0500
Propaganda Gothic Chronicle No. 22 Spring 1995
4.95$ USA, 7.50$ CANADA
Propaganda Minister( Publisher): Fred H. Berger
Music Editor: Stephanie Young
Copyright (c) 1995 by Fred H. Berger. All rights reserved.
Send all correspondence( or 6$ to buy this issue) to:
Propaganda Magazine
P.O. BOX 296
New Hyde Park, New York 11040 USA
Behind the scenes with the Cocteau Twins on p.4
COCTEAU TWINS
the demons within
Liz Fraser reveals all to Stephanie Young
Liz Fraser of the Cocteau Twins purges her soul on FOUR-CALENDAR CAFE.
It has been called "the voice of God" and the "sound of heaven
itself." From no quarter of the cosmos echoes a more angelic sound.
The music created by the Cocteau Twins has for twelve years been the
defining statement on what is ethereal and eternal in pop culture.
Strangely however, what for most is a deeply serene and beautiful
sound, is for its creators a by-product of self-torment and
self-doubt.
It appears that for the past dozen or so years, the members of the
band where using the enigmatic quality of their music to shield
themselves from the prying scrutiny of the press and public. They
were hiding behind the renowned aloof mystique they had built up
around themselves. For the first time since the band formed in 1982,
lead singer/lyricist Liz Fraser is commenting on this seemingly
bizarre dichotomy between the music of the Cocteau Twins and their
state of mind.
"I think people who listen to our music get something completely
different out of it than what we put in," says Liz. "I've heard that
most people feel a calming influence, an almost tranquilizing
effect... which is strange because we pour a lot of anguish and
aggression into our music."
The band has recently released their seventh album, FOUR-CALENDAR CAFE
on Capitol Records. Though the familiar Cocteau sound remains
essentially intact with its cascading guitars and angelic vocals,
there is a true departure in Liz's lyrical style. For the first time
since the band's debut album GARLANDS, she sings in clearly
discernible English. Over the past decade, the Cocteau Twins have
built up an almost cult like reputation based on the fact that Liz
created her own undecipherable language of nonsense syllables. The
songs did not have lyrics in the conventional sense. Liz created her
own little revolution with a completely new dialect. She used her
voice as an additional instrumental apparatus rather than simply a
mouth-piece to convey ideas. From such now classic albums as HEAD
OVER HEALS( '83) to TREASURE( '84) to VICTORIALAND( '86), Liz procured
an entirely new frame of reference. It truly was as if the angels
above could be recorded and played back for we mere mortals. As it
turns out, however, Liz was not simply making a creative statement,
she was using this vocal style as a veil of secrecy to hide her
intense torment and absence of self-esteem.
"I used the music to escape into, to withdraw from the hurtful reality
of my life," reveals Liz. "It was almost like the was drug addict
uses drugs - to blur out reality. Whereas Robin[ Guthrie, Liz's
husband and Cocteau's guitarist] was actually using drugs, I was using
my songs as an escape. They had no relation to the world outside my
head. Though that way of writing lyrics is very comfortable and
insular, it wasn't helping me deal with my problems.
"I was sexually abused as a child on several occasions. Large
segments of that period in my life had been repressed until recently.
The trauma of those incidents forced me to withdraw within myself. I
lost my right to be a child. I lost the rights over my own body. Do
you know how devastating that is to the psyche? When Robin and I
first started to write music together, I was only sixteen. I used my
writing as a defense mechanism and never even realized it. Now I need
to write meaningful lyrics, clearly understandable lyrics, because I
need to use them as a therapeutic tool. Our music is the most
important thing in my life outside Lucy[ her young daughter] and
Robin."
On FOUR-CALENDAR CAFE, this unusual therapy Liz is using to exorcise
her demons manifests itself quite clearly in songs like "Evangeline"
and Thefts and Wandering Around Lost." In these selections we
discover the pain Liz is only now releasing. ("My body's my own / Is
this what my body says? / There is no going back / I'm not the same /
I'm growing up again / I had to fantasize to survive") It seems Robin
has also exorcised some demons of his own. Since the depths of the
group's collective depression back in 1990 while touring for the
HEAVEN OR LAS VEGAS Lp( the one just prior to FOUR-CALENDAR CAFE), he
has been drug free. But as with Liz, the struggle to remain on track
is on-going.
Indeed, the Cocteau Twins have been reborn. They are armed with a new
optimism and a resurgent enthusiasm. The heavy handed control of the
4AD label has also been lifted. The band felt the label wanted too
much input. They acknowledge that this creative control did in fact
help mold them as a young band, but they feel the need for such a
thing had outlived its usefulness a few years ago and had actually
become a hindrance.
"4AD has always been involved very heavily in artist development...
which is a good thing when you're just starting out," states Liz.
"But we have our own plan of action now. When we first signed with
4AD back in '82, Ivo[ Watts-Russell, the label's founder] was like a
mentor/father-figure to us. Now 4AD is some big corporate entity, and
we sensed their loss of enthusiasm with what we wanted to do. We
weren't playing their game. The recording of our last two albums for
them[ BLUE BELL KNOLL in '88 and HEAVEN OR LAS VEGAS in '90 ]became
big battles. We finally had enough and went somewhere we felt would
give us more creative freedom. Fontana[ their U.K. label] and
Capitol[ U.S. label] have been just great - very supportive."
Another major factor in giving Liz and Robin the peace of mind they've
needed for so long is the sense of family they've acquired since the
birth of their daughter, Lucy Bell. Liz describes motherhood as the
most valuable learning experience anyone could ever have.
"Being parents has forced us to be more responsible in our lives,"
confesses Liz, "because whatever we do, not only effects us, but also
effects Lucy. She's at the stage now[ five years old] where she's
constantly asking questions and constantly yearing for knowledge. Not
only has this taught me to try to set a proper example for her, it has
also taught me to constantly keep asking questions myself. The
growing process should never stop. In this sense, my song writing has
definitely matured. I no longer use music to hide behind - instead, I
use it to expand my scope of experiences. Through my music, I can
grow."
This growing process is quite evident on FOUR_CALENDAR CAFE. Even the
titles of the songs suggest Ms. Fraser's much heralded new awakening.
"Know Who You Are At Every Age" is about just what the title suggests.
In this piece, Liz poetically reiterates her thirst for self-growth
and exploration. In "My Truth" she comes to terms with whatever may
have faced her in the past. She bravely lets the chips fall where
they may. She expresses the desire to turn all negatives into
positives, and to use adversity as a driving force rather than
allowing it to become an obstacle.
The Cocteau Twins have used this new-found confidence to their
advantage. They recently finished a world-wide tour that included
four back-up musicians in addition to the regular line-up of Liz,
Robin and Simon Raymonde. FOUR_CALENDAR CAFE has also become the
band's most successful Lp to date. They're not only getting a lot of
air time on MTV, but they have also had several appearances on network
television, including the Tonight Show with Jay Leno.
It's been a long and bumpy road since Liz and Robin, two idealistic
teenagers, left the grimy, industrial Scottish town of Grangemouth to
seek fame and fortune in London's postpunk music scene... but it seems
they've finally reached their heaven.
No demons up there.
END
The music they make seems to come from heaven itself.
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 16:37:22 +0100
at May 19, 95 00:44:12 am
"Michael R. M. Cheselka" Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 11:07:49 -0500
19 May 95 16:37:22 BST" <[email protected]>
>"Michael R. M. Cheselka" Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:24:47 -0400
Yes, the packing tape on the Lilliput spine is just another of v23's quirky
ideas.
I paid $85 for mine, but the price varies. :-)
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:33:21 -0400
> Now I need to write meaningful lyrics, clearly understandable lyrics,
> because I need to use them as a therapeutic tool.
I'd say the problem with the 4CC lyrics was that they were clearly
understandable, but not particularly meaningful.
_______________________________________
Naturally, the rebuttle to that assertion is that meaning is something which
is comprehended differently by each individual listener. It's all relative.
Four-Calendar Cafe is, for me, exactly what Liz calls it: a therapeutic tool.
I'm sure when she wrote those lyrics she knew she wasn't going to get int
touch with everyone who listened. And I doubt that was her goal.
I consider Four-Calendar Cafe to be brilliant on several levels, and I mainly
appreciate it for what it symbolized for the band: a cleansing and renewal
process, which also underlined the fact that they CAN write songs without
the influence of drugs or technological trickery and that she CAN write
real lyrics that have meaning for HER and possibly others without sacrificing
anything and without relying on her old habits. And I honestly believe they
were successful in doing so. When one has listened to a band for so long
and has such feelings for their music, one can't simply slag off a record
like Four-Calendar Cafe without taking into account the band's perspective.
They deserve credit for simply taking the risks they took, realizing there
would be a lot of criticism as a result, and that a lot of their fans might
turn away from it.
Nevertheless, IMO, Four-Calendar Cafe is worthy of much praise. I can see
how many might hear Liz's lyrics and think, "Oh Jesus, what a 12-step pro-
gram junkie..." But I don't think they're giving her due respect and con-
sideration.
But like I said, it's all relative. (cliche, cliche, cliche)
Mike
"Safe at last, and my thoughts are in order."
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 10:22:27 -0800
>Well, Wire is sort of thislisty.
If for no other reason than that This Mortal Coil has covered a few of Wir(e)
singer Colin Newman's songs...
>Has anyone out there noticed the
>similarities between Elastica's "Connection" single and "Three Girl Rhumba"
>by Wire?
The beginning drum beat is an _exact_ duplication. I almost thought it was
sampled!
>It's one of the most blatant rip-offs I've ever heard. A friend
>of mine showed it to me the other day -- sick!!!
Well, I don't know that much about Elastica (despite media saturation) -- I
heard this song at a friend's... but the similarity is _so_ blatant that I
assumed it must be a conscious post-modern reference...
In an AP article, Elastica say (correctly) that Wire were the "best band in
the world," so they can't be all bad. :) Though I doubt they appreciate the
weird, arty side-project stuff like Dome and Bruce Gilbert, nor the later
electronic Wir(e) work...
If there are any Wir(e) fans on this list, I'm hugely into all things Wir(e)
and have some info and resources gathered from WIRE SERVICE, WIRE MAIL ORDER,
and Colin Newman re: his recent Swim label. Email me personally for more...
+ --- Thom S. Heileson
+ +- oR [antiAxiomaticism unlimited]
+ - [email protected]
[email protected]
"I'll give you an example, typically.
It's less complicated than it simply should be." - Wire
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 14:20:46 -0400
hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,.....
i recently paid $140 for mine...
however, it was still MINT w/ the t-shirt!
yes, there is supposed to be a t-shirt with the lilliput. it's gray with
purple and orange printing similar to what's on lilliput itself.
i found it in a lilttle obscure little record store and they didn't even know
what they had aside from the fact that they knew it was a little rare. they
held out on me for 2 weeks, until i finally 'persuaded' them that the $140
would be a good starting point for a computer that they wanted to buy for the
store.
;)
and yes, it was still sealed in plastic with the t-shirt!
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 11:23:59 -0700
This is just to be bitchy ;)
On Thu, 18 May 1995, Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear wrote:
> It would be nice to have a Cocteau Twins record with more than the
> standard 10 tracks...
>
You mean like the 9 track Victorialand? *twiP*
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 11:25:21 -0700
>
> for some reason I thought 4AD stood for "forward"... does anyone else know
> for sure?
>
aiee ... here we go again...
*twEEp*
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 13:34:24 -0500
---from Iceblink:
> I believe the error with Garlands occurred with the Peel Sessions
> tracks listed on CADC 211 and 211 CD. "Hearsay Please" and "Blind Dumb
> Deaf" and "Hazel" were mixed up. I think the CORRECT order is "Dear
> Heart", "Hazel", "Hearsay Please" and "Blind Dumb Deaf". I'm not
> certain, however, since I don't actually HAVE the recording with me at
> the moment.
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 11:43:35 -0700
Hey all you crazy kids with Propoganda magazines....
If you look at the ads in the back of the magazine, there is an ad for
another magazine whose name escapes me and it shows two bare-breasted
women with Elizabethan wigs on about to kiss. Got it? Ok, now look at
the one on the left ( you know, the one with the roses in her hair and
the big huge nipples painted on?) ... that's my best friend in the whole
world... her name is Stephanie. :)
*SpLAt*
Ivo
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 14:36:29 -0400
Any word on the deluxe book, i.e. has anyone tried to pre-order. I've
set aside the funds, so I'd like to get one before I spend it on
something even more useless :)
Alex
*******************************************************************************
* Columbia Institute for Tele-Information * 809 Uris Hall * New York NY 10027 *
*******************************************************************************
* ph 212 854 4222 * fx 212 932 7816 * wb www.ctr.columbia.edu/citi/index.html *
*******************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:03:30 -0700
>
> The beginning drum beat is an _exact_ duplication. I almost thought it was
> sampled!
>
> >It's one of the most blatant rip-offs I've ever heard. A friend
> >of mine showed it to me the other day -- sick!!!
>
Oh, bLaH BlAh blAh! If you must know, Wir(e) is receiving royalty checks
(on a daily basis, I'm sure) for Elastica's use of their song ... or drum
beat... or guitar... or whatever. No need to worry about poor Mr. N &
the Gang... they're getting their just desserts, I'm sure.
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 15:52:33 -0400
This is just to be bitchy ;)
On Thu, 18 May 1995, Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear wrote:
> It would be nice to have a Cocteau Twins record with more than the
> standard 10 tracks...
>
You mean like the 9 track Victorialand? *twiP*
______________________________________________________________
I was kidding myself to think that nobody would mention that....:)
You forgot to throw up Garlands (8 tracks) in my face....
Mike
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 16:09:27 -0400
Jeremy wrote:
So where do the other two tracks ("Speak No Evil" and "Perhaps Some Other
Aeon") come from? Are they otherwise-unavailable outtakes or something?
__________________________
"Speak No Evil" and "Perhaps Some Other Aeon" were the first two songs the
band ever officially recorded. Ivo first asked them down to London to do a
recording session to result in a single (7"), for which these two tracks
were originally intended.
Ivo's enthusiasm for the band led him to scrap the idea of the one 7" and
go for the album, and so Garlands was finished one week after "Speak No
Evil/Perhaps Some Other Aeon" were recorded. The first two songs were not
properly released until Garlands was re-released on CD format to include
the Peel Session recordings.
Mike
"I was there when you died at birth, I was there when you were born in death,
Perhaps some other animal, perhaps some other aeon..."
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 23:23:04 +0200
>Any word on the deluxe book, i.e. has anyone tried to pre-order. I've
>set aside the funds, so I'd like to get one before I spend it on
>something even more useless :)
>
>Alex
The This Rimy River deluxe book is set for release in September. Price =A3=
=20
100,-. That's about $ 160,- at the moment (in September it might be $=
200,-).
Frank
++++++++++++
[email protected]
++++++++++++
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 17:40:29 -0400
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 14:36:35 -0700
> properly released until Garlands was re-released on CD format to include
> the Peel Session recordings.
"Speak No Evil" first appeared on a flexi that came with
"Vinyl" Magazine. Quite a rare item I might add.
How about if we stir up the list a bit and start describing
our 'great moments in collecting', those times when we get
something we've always been looking for at a price far less
than we should have had the seller known what he had.
Not that we should gloat or brag about what we have, but
I'd find such stories fun to read. I got that Vinyl Magazine
complete with the flexi (never played) for about $2.00
at a swap meet. Then there's the time Pat picked up the
Peppermint Pig 7" for $1.00 (not in great condition though).
The most annoying one was when I bought a second copy of the original 4AD
poster set for $35, sent it UPS to a friend I was trading with,
used his old address, neither he nor I saw it ever again, and
UPS refused to do anything about it.
| Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes
| Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567 | to northern skies
| Uncommon music that deserves to be heard |
| http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 17:46:06 -0500
Ivo said (and is very correct) that UK prices are much cheaper. For
example, I've seen the Tones on Tail 12" in the US offered for $100 in good
condition and $75 in crappy condition. But, on a trip to England, I found a
great copy for 15 pounds. For those of you looking for rarities, get in
touch with UK shops that do mail order and break out your credit card. It's
the only way to go!
As for prices, I tend to be a big spender (as my credit card balance will
attest). I'll pay up to $50 for a rare, out of print 12" and up to $100 for
a rare LP. Of course, this will depend on how rare and how good the
condition is.
And keep in mind that you may stumble across a real gem for virtually
nothing. I got the Bearz 7" (an AXIS release) for $10 from some dufus at a
record show who didn't know what he had.
As for the top rarities on my list of things to get:
1. Lonely is an Eyesore (box)
2. Natures Mortes -- Still Lives
3. Pressage(s) (black and brown sleeves)
5. The Fast Set -- Junction One (Axis pressing)
6. Shox -- No Turning Back (Axis pressing)
7. Dif Juz -- Vibrating Air
8. Dead Can Dance -- promo digipaks for Baraka and Into the Labyrinth
10. Colourbox -- Breakdown (7")
And one last thing, how much are test pressing with the test sleeve worth on
average? I have quite a few, but have no idea how valuable/collectable they
are.
-- Jeff
Jeffrey T. Gayton
[email protected]
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 15:25:38 -0800
>
>my faves:
>treasure- ( always be the essential 4AD 80's album from them)
>Victorialand -( one day I hope opera singers will perform the tracks off
this
>, live ,its a recording out on its own)
>HOLV- (the honing and prefecting of the groove.. this swings at times)
>4CC- (pure pop, distilling the celtic goth influnce into pure pop....
>hummable... an improtant consideration!)
>
>the box of singles is also well worth it.. as there used to be a time when a
>12' every few monthswas coming out and it was pure bliss... one track held
>enuff interest as awhole side of an album!
Some of my very favorite CT stuff is on singles... tracks like "Rococo," "All
But An Ark-Lark"...
>I just watched an old interview with them from 1984 treasure era... the
spiky
>hair ,. liz's eyes... ahhhhhh those were the days..... does anyone else find
>Liz stunningly attractive?
Gorgeous eyes. However, just as Liz must take the back seat to Lisa Gerrard
in voice, in my book Lisa is the most attractive 4AD crooner... Lisa:
Lilith-esque, haunting. Liz: your sweetest sister making great sugar
cookies...
***
>Also what about a CD of Cocteau Twins b-sides,'forgotten 4ad tracks' does
>anyone know anything about this one?
This would be a dream come true! Please let it be so...
***
>Actually, Elastica are paying money to Wire's and Strangler's publishing
>companies. They have a bigger problem with the band's *ahem* tributes
>than the actual bandmembers do. Perhaps it will interest more people in
>the Stranglers and Wire, two very deserving bands, if their sound becomes
>popular....or maybe not.
Colin Newman spoke re: Wire - Elastica comparisons in a small interview in
AP; he is bemusedly indifferent about all the fuss. I'm sure he has no
interest in squeezing $ out of the group.
***
>> umm I saw this in a mail order catalogue I received yesterday ...
>>
>>
>> My Bloody Valentine , The new record by ---- $50 (Australian)
>>
>>
>> Can anyone shed any light on the subject ??
>>
> Well, I hope this helps. Somebody over on the MBV list stated
>this was a bootleg cd of a live performance in Osaka Japan that came out
>shortly after "Loveless" was released. I also heard it was a pre-Bilinda
>album that came out that is only worth it for the true collectors.
>Whatever that means. Anyway, I hope this helps.
I'm pretty sure that pre-Bilinda album is called "This Is Your My Bloody
Valentine," not "The New Record by..." (I have a dub of said 1st album). It
sounds like The Damned meet The Cramps... on a bad day!
***
>>>And pardon my ignorance, but where did the word _Pygmalion_ come from,
>>>anyway?
>>
>
>>it's from a greek myth, in which Pygmalion is a sculpture who creates
>>the most beautiful statue of his ideal woman... he falls in love with
>>it, has sex with it, etc. etc. and then one day