4ad-l Mail for 12-05-1994

Mail in Archive

Subject: Subpop WWW
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 00:51:12 -0500
From: Michael Hauben (hauben@CS.COLUMBIA.EDU)
Subject: The Audrey's Diary Catalog
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 01:16:15 -0500
From: Hk Kahng (FARRAGO@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Breeders bootleg
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:23:00 +0100
From: Patrick Asselman (patrick@STACK.URC.TUE.NL)
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Music
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:59:05 +0000
From: "A.J. Norman" (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Some (Dutch) concert dates..
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:15:14 +0100
From: Andre Van Leeuwen (Andre.van.Leeuwen@CWI.NL)
Subject: Re: mass marketing
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:54:40 +0100
From: Peter Granstrvm (f94-pgr@NADA.KTH.SE)
Subject: Re: mass marketing
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:14:18 -0500
From: "Federico J. Windhausen" (fjw0393@IS2.NYU.EDU)
Subject: Reply to Blockbuster Rebuttal (very little music content)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 08:50:16 -0600
From: kjv@AQUARIUS1.CIM.CDC.COM
Subject: Is it really just about the music?!
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:54:31 GMT
From: Simon Hughes (tcssph@AIE.LREG.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: UPC codes
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:33:55 -0600
From: Randy Peppler (peppler@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU)
Subject: need hnia video help!
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:44:54 -0500
From: "spiral 8')" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: Re: mass marketing
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:35:47 +0000
From: Robb Masters (rmasters@LSSEC.BT.CO.UK)
Subject: well...
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:47:31 -0500
From: jOHN yOCHIM (jcy107@PSU.EDU)
Subject: Stars, Pop Tarts and Tanya
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:23:49 -0500
From: Steven W Schuldt (sschuldt@NEWYORK.BOZELL.COM)
Subject: 4AD and adult album alternative radio
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:02:03 -0800
From: Heretic-Toc the Eastre Clock (payn@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: Re: Artists making bux
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:36:54 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens_alfke@POWERTALK.APPLE.COM)
Subject: Fields of the Nephilm
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:18:00 -0800
From: mj_polder@CCMAIL.PNL.GOV
Subject: Re: Fields of the Nephilm
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:16:09 -0500
From: Penniwyse (rickverm@CYBERSPACE.ORG)
Subject: Re: Artists making bux
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:49:01 -0800
From: vilexile (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: What on Earth happened to Seefeel???
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:04:49 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens_alfke@POWERTALK.APPLE.COM)
Subject: Re: Fields of the Nephilm
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:39:53 +0000
From: Mark A Stammers (mark.stammers@MAGDALEN.OXFORD.AC.UK)
Subject: help, more subscription business!
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:42:47 -0500
From: Michel Battaglia (mikebee@FREENET.SCRI.FSU.EDU)
Subject: Pram and Laika
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:49:09 EST
From: KingofSweet (lycia@EDEN.RUTGERS.EDU)
Subject: upc...lsd...hmm...
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:20:03 -0800
From: vilexile (einexile@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Artists making bux
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:55:00 PST
From: Timothy Edwards (ECZ5TAE@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: LSD, Faith & the Muse, a request,
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 19:49:05 +0100
From: Roland Ulbert (ulbert@ISIS.WU-WIEN.AC.AT)
Subject: Re: Pram and Laika
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:07:44 -0500
From: jOHN yOCHIM (jcy107@PSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Is it really just about the music?!
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:26:22 +0000
From: Mark A Stammers (mark.stammers@MAGDALEN.OXFORD.AC.UK)
Subject: In Gowen Ring
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:58:19 EST
From: Anna Osinski (osinski@PEGASUS.RUTGERS.EDU)
Subject: Fields of the Nephilim
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:17:03 -0800
From: vilexile (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: ...laika...
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:22:39 -0800
From: Kelli-Jeanne (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Stars, Pop Tarts and Tanya
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:34:12 -0600
From: Sanz (bighat@ripco.com)
Subject: Re: Pram and Laika
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:09:57 -0500
From: Gil Gershman (BisonBoy@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Fields of the Nephilm
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:34:27 -0800
From: Fun Gus (queso@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 00:51:12 -0500
From: Michael Hauben (hauben@CS.COLUMBIA.EDU)
Subject: Subpop WWW


I am not sure about teenbeat, but subpop has a web site

        http://www.subpop.com/

Now wasn't that easy?

Quick plug, I try to keep my music web listing active, so check out

to checks things out - I have the index sorted by types - such
as artists pages, record labels, etc, so things have a place rather than
just a long big listing.

-Michael

and it was an AMAZING show - highly recommended. I need to pick
up one of their CDs to see if the live show translates to recorded material.)

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 01:16:15 -0500
From: Hk Kahng (FARRAGO@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: The Audrey's Diary Catalog


I'm forwarding this for a friend of mine - yeah, figure it's a blatant plug,
but Chip's got one of the best micro-indie labels going (right up there with
VHF and Pop Narcotic, IMVHO), so there.  Mnyeahh.  :)

**** cut here ****
Audrey's Diary
We put the ROQ back in CROQUET


    - Coming on like a fuzzed-up Shangri-La's hell bent on kicking ass and
taking no prisoners. About 10 left and as the CD compilation seems to be on the
back-burner at the moment (simply due to liner note delays) this is more
valuable than ever.

    - An a-side than has vocals and is galaxie-esque, but it's the b-sides that
float my dinghy (so to speak). 2 instrumentals that recall Deebank-era Felt like

I recall the first time I spoke in tongues and broke the world record in javelin
tossing while eating a salad. Most copies left are burgundy vinyl, though a few
blacks ones are still around.

    - Can, Barret-era Floyd, Faust and 1st LP Pale Saints are the selling points
to this band on the run. In this month's Alternative Press saying grandiose
things that usually come out of the mouths of Brit bands. They enjoy their hype
and you should believe it.

    - The swan song from Abe Vigoda's favorite band. Features the vocals of The
Lake's full-time long distance dedication babe, Ms. Pam (chanteuse with B.
Tambourine, Glo-Worm, Belmondo, The Shapiros and a newly formed band with
Stephen Merritt and Steven Malkamus called FOX, INC.). Some copies left on green
vinyl (I think) and plenty left on shiny noire. A fantastically melodic and
beautiful record, if I do say so myself (and I do).

and Sabine
    - Title about says it all, junior. Thumbling is a side project from the
singer of Asha Vida and it's a powerful bit of drone a la 1st LP Spacemen 3.
Sabine features John McEnroe on guest racquet and comes on like Spaceboy 3's
Dream Weapon with some early Bark Psychosis-isms for those who enjoy isms. The
cover is an homage to Kraftwerk's Radioactivity LP.


    - A fanzine record combo that will make you happy for at least 10 minutes.
The 20-page, suavely design mag features a totally in-depth interview with Bark
Psychosis that tracks every squeak of the guitar string these geniuses have put
on wax and a interview/chili cook-off with the boys in LaBradford. The 7"
features Jessamine (who just had their brilliant new LP released on Kranky
Records and the most insanely packaged 7" on Sub Pop. Loop vs. Can for the Heavy
Weight Championship of Absolutely Nothing), Buddha on the Moon (who smoke in a
way that suggests serious fire damage. Felt and Seam come to the noggin and you
should get their newly released 10" which features a definitive (and in tune)
version of the best song ever written, "100,000 Fireflies" by Magnetic Fields)
and Sabine (who round out the disc with a folk song that does justice to the
Indigo Girls comparisons. Actually, it's like Tony Conrad sitting in with Mark
Eitzel (or so the Sabine dope hopes). A full bodied work of art.

Also, a few copies of the Sabine/Boyracer flexi are available. Boyracer release
their 500th recording and Sabine hobbles in with "Painting Portraits," a lovely
look at the death of a relationship, wrapped in Felty synths. We like Felt
around here, in case you missed the boat, G.

7"s = $3
Fanzine & 7" = $4
Flexi = $2.
Discount prices for Internet geeks like yourself.

Make checks to C. Porter and send off that order to
PO Box 21685 ? Washington, DC ? 20009 ? USA

**** cut here ****

And Mr. Porter may be reached at cporter@washcp.com.

PS. Flying Saucer Attack rocks my world... gently.  :)


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:23:00 +0100
From: Patrick Asselman (patrick@STACK.URC.TUE.NL)
Subject: Breeders bootleg

              and her" at Dec 4, 94 01:47:00 pm

> Just saw a cute Breeders bootleg downtown--the name of it was, "Don't
> need no fat man"
>
>                                         jason

Can anyone give me more info on this?
I'm trying to make a new Breeders discography, with all bootlegs
included. All contributions are welcome.

As soon as the info stops coming in I'll make the sucker and send y'all
a copy through this list.

Oh yeah, just because quick-plugging is so popular  ;-)
did everyone take a look at the subbacultcha www pages yet?
(Pixies/Throwing Muses/Belly/Frank Black/Kristin Hersh)

---Patrick---   //       patrick@stack.urc.tue.nl


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:59:05 +0000
From: "A.J. Norman" (nja@LEICESTER.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Music

              94 02:50:30 am

Jason Schmit  said:
>
> I go to school and am one of the managers at the CD Listening Bar whose
> owners came up with the original concept of "listen before you buy".
> Unfortunately, an idea/concept like that can't be patented so lo and
> behold, Blockbuster Music, Tower, Wherehouse and many other music
> stores have "borrowed" the idea.  "Stolen" is more like it but patent
> laws only seem to protect tangible things rather than concepts, ideas
> and the like.

So when my mum and her friend Jo used to take the bus to Sutton
Coldfield in the fifties to check out the latest Tommy Steele recording
in the listening booth at the record shop, they were unknowingly
participating in the theft of ideas from the CD Listening Bar?

Someone wanted to know about Spoonfed Hybrid and That Dog (amongst
others).  SH sound like the stranger parts of Pale Saints (hardly
surprising, really), and That Dog are a bit like a teenage version of
Belly.

For the political record, I'm a lapsed Labour party member and my
favourite shop to boycott is Goodness Foods, run by the Jesus Army.  We
used to have a blockbuster in Leicester, but it went bust because it was
far too expensive.

--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England | Jedermann sein eigner Fussball
nja@le.ac.uk                      |

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:15:14 +0100
From: Andre Van Leeuwen (Andre.van.Leeuwen@CWI.NL)
Subject: Some (Dutch) concert dates..


The following concert dates might be of interest for the
Dutch members of the list.

Sat. 10 dec.:

Bettie Serveert & Julia P. Hersheimer   - Arena, Amsterdam
Orbital                                 - Init, Amsterdam

Fri. 16 dec.:

Laika & Pram                            - Init, Amsterdam

Sat. 17 dec.:

Cranes & Pale Saints                    - Melkweg, Amsterdam
Umbra et Imago & Dracul                 - Atak, Enschede
Bettie Serveert & Julia P. Hersheimer   - 't Beest, Goes

Sun. 18 dec.:

Heather Nova & Wedding Present          - Melkweg, Amsterdam
Cranes & Pale Saints                    - Effenaar, Eindhoven
Bettie Serveert & Julia P. Hersheimer   - Vera, Groningen

Thu. 22 dec.:

Bettie Serveert & Julia P. Hersheimer   - Doornroosje, Nijmegen

Fri. 23 dec.:

Bettie Serveert & Julia P. Hersheimer   - Para, Breda

Andre
 =================================================
|Drs. Andre M.A. van Leeuwen          leeuw@cwi.nl|
|Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science (CWI)|
|Kruislaan 413, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands|
 =================================================


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:54:40 +0100
From: Peter Granstrvm (f94-pgr@NADA.KTH.SE)
Subject: Re: mass marketing


> I mean, what makes Lush intrinsically and qualitatively less mainstream
> than Pearl Jam? They're both rock and roll bands with major record
> deals. The fact that one of them sells fewer albums, gets less
> attention, and is regarded by the readership of this list as superior
> musically, is only a quantitative difference...

If you compare Lush with crap like Pearl Jam, I feel very sorry for
you. Maybe you can get help from a mental hospital?

-Peter


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:14:18 -0500
From: "Federico J. Windhausen" (fjw0393@IS2.NYU.EDU)
Subject: Re: mass marketing

              <4AD-L%JHUVM.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Peter Granstrvm wrote:

> > I mean, what makes Lush intrinsically and qualitatively less mainstream
> > than Pearl Jam? They're both rock and roll bands with major record
> > deals. The fact that one of them sells fewer albums, gets less
> > attention, and is regarded by the readership of this list as superior
> > musically, is only a quantitative difference...
>
> If you compare Lush with crap like Pearl Jam, I feel very sorry for
> you. Maybe you can get help from a mental hospital?
>
> -Peter
>
kids, kids, kids, please!  debates about selling out and authenticity in
rock really, really tired.  can we get some smarts?
F.W.


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 08:50:16 -0600
From: kjv@AQUARIUS1.CIM.CDC.COM
Subject: Reply to Blockbuster Rebuttal (very little music content)

              04 Dec 94 12:07:38 CST" <2ee206396452002@cdsmail.cdc.com>

>Buy Patagonia.  They support Planned Parenthood.

>Erik
>   -- They kill 200,000 in East Timor and we sign a trade agreement with them.


Just like the lass who came into  the store wearing an anti-fur button
and leather shoes.


___________________________________________________________________
Kent J. Vanderwaal
kjv@catherine.cim.cdc.com
"gifted child, omouidashite yo"
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:54:31 GMT
From: Simon Hughes (tcssph@AIE.LREG.CO.UK)
Subject: Is it really just about the music?!


Sanz wrote

>AARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just had to say that I couldn't
>disagree with you more. I think that this MTV attitude of total adoration
>of the new & the young & the trendy over substance & talent is revolting.
>IMHO great pop music should be about MUSIC. PERIOD. FULL STOP. It
>certainly doesn't matter to me what the artists looks like or how blasted
>old they are, or if their sound is hip. If their music is good (by my own
>personal standards) that's all that matters.

I've never understood this kind of "It's only the music that matters"
attitude.  It's usually accompanied by a "If Michael Bolton had released
Head Over Heels, you ought to like it just as much" attitude (you can
substitute your most hated pop star for Micky boy and your most loved album
for HOH).  (I'm not sure if this last bit is what you are saying Sanz, and
I don't mean to imply it is.)

If Michael Bolton really had released Head Over Heels instead of the CTs,
I'd probably hate it cos. I hate MB (actually, I don't but you get the
gist).

Or, to push it further, if the bloke who last week burnt my house to the
ground, murdering my entire family *and* frazzling my "Serpent's Egg" CD,
were to rerecord a perfect replica of, say, Treasure, I'd hate it.  Not
because he was doing a Swallow (joke! :-) but because the fucker frazzled
my DCD CD.  Er, er I mean because he did my family in.  Doesn't mean it
wouldn't be as good a record (barring the usual debate about originality),
it just wouldn't frost my glass.

As Mick Allen might have once said, "Art doesn't exist in a vacuum".

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:33:55 -0600
From: Randy Peppler (peppler@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU)
Subject: Re: UPC codes


>Einexile and others:  Why is that you think that an artist is compromising
>their work and defacing their art when they put a UPC code on the CD tray
>card?  Isn't the art the MUSIC after all (I mean that's what the band makes)?
> I fail to see how a UPC code on the tray card can effect and comprimise the
>band's music on the CD.  I personally judge the artist's work, and their
>artistc intergrity, by the music on the CD.  In fact, most bands/artists have
>absolutely no say as to whether there will or will not be UPC code; it's a
>decision made by the label.  So again, how is the artist compromising their
>art??? (perhaps the label is doing the compromising?)

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't the bar codes also being used to track
sales?  I seem to remember reading that they did away with the old
ad hoc method of record stores keeping track of sales and then
reporting them to such places as Billboard.  Now it's all done
automatically...

Randy

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:44:54 -0500
From: "spiral 8')" (99lear@LAB.CC.WMICH.EDU)
Subject: need hnia video help!


if there is a generous soul
out there... i am searching (oh
the limitaions of human vocabulary!)
for a copy/original/anything of the
3 his name is alive videos...
if you have a copy from tv or a
video comp. you would like to part
with, or any kind of
version of these, then please respond...
hopefully we can work out a cool deal.
thanks much....
later
                        --->spiral
                        99lear@lab.cc.wmich.edu


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:35:47 +0000
From: Robb Masters (rmasters@LSSEC.BT.CO.UK)
Subject: Re: mass marketing


> > I mean, what makes Lush intrinsically and qualitatively less mainstream
> > than Pearl Jam? They're both rock and roll bands with major record
> > deals. The fact that one of them sells fewer albums, gets less
> > attention, and is regarded by the readership of this list as superior
> > musically, is only a quantitative difference...
>
> If you compare Lush with crap like Pearl Jam, I feel very sorry for
> you. Maybe you can get help from a mental hospital?
>
> -Peter

That's a bit out of order, isn't it Pete? I mean what's wrong with
the act of "comparing" the two? I mean, you'll probably compare them
and say something like "Pearl Jam are rockier, Lush are more etherial,
I like Lush more." What's wrong with that. In fact, even if they liked
Pearl Jam more, that's up to them (taste is individual) but they're
probably on the wrong list...

Pearl Jam aren't "crap" - it's just that you (and I) don't much like
them.

In answer to the original questionner's question. Mainstream or not
*IS* just a quantitative thing. However, there are reasons why Pearl
Jam sell more than Lush and these tend to be the same reasons listy
folk prefer Lush to Pearl Jam. Hence generalisations such as "I don't
like mainstream music" should not be taken to mean "I don't like music
that sells well" but "I don't like the kind of music that tends to
sell well".

Robb
________________________________________________________________________________
                             |
Robb Masters, BT             | "If ignorance is bliss, why aren't you ecstatic?"
D&P SSI BSEC CEC (Gower St.) |                           "Obnoxious" - Purr
_____________________________|__________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:47:31 -0500
From: jOHN yOCHIM (jcy107@PSU.EDU)
Subject: well...


In message Sun, 4 Dec 1994 03:01:59 -0800,
  An outraged and angry vilexile wrote:

> This took a while to sink in.
>
> On Fri, 2 Dec 1994, jOHN yOCHIM wrote:
>
>
>>            -jOHN thinks christians suck...
>>                    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>>                    where did this come from?
>>
>
> It came from somewhere in the neighborhood of "jOHN thinks jews suck",
> only with Christians it's *okay* because they won't have their feelings
> hurt!

No, jOHN _IS_ a Christian, Baptised, Confirmed, 10 years of Sunday bible
class... Community Service, the whole works.

> Besides, it's Christians who control the banking system now anyway,
> right? Maybe you should try and come up with a nice clean open-minded
> tolerant liberal equivalent for 'kike'.

???
I think yr being a bit hard on me here, e.
First of all, That message was supposed to go to Kelli's private mailbox...
I screwed up by not changing the address.  Secondly, It's quite obvious that
My sarcasm didn't come across right, and that it was taken the wrong way...
I forget that what yr reading is just some words strapped together on a
computer screen... You can't hear me, see me, or understand me... and you
don't know me, therefor it all comes across wrong, and I look like an ass...
But thats my fault.
I realise that I have offended some people... and I am sorry.  I never meant
that.

> I have to admit you're one of the last people I expected to see sinking
> to this kind of pathetic, cheap speech, but given that you've decided
> to do so, it's only natural you'd try to mask it with feigned smileys and
> self-deprecating overdramatic outrage.

There is no "speech" and my views are not expressed in what I wrote.
I feel dumb, and you have every right to be ticked at me.  I'm sorry I let
you down...  I understand that the consequences of my actions.  I take full
responsibility.


> That's netiquette for you. Of
> course, I'll probably take too much heat on this list for actually coming
> out and stating a solid opinion, so please disregard everything above
> this line as _just_my_opinion_ and instead replace it with "Fuck you,
> you're a gutless asshole."

Youch!!  Yikes!  I feel like I'm talking to my father!
>
> Just my opinion. YMMV. :-)
>
> einexile
>

         -jOHN feeling like the lowest low

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:23:49 -0500
From: Steven W Schuldt (sschuldt@NEWYORK.BOZELL.COM)
Subject: Stars, Pop Tarts and Tanya


- WARNING!  This post contains cynicism! Read it at your peril! -

>AARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just had to say that I couldn't
>disagree with you more. I think that this MTV attitude of total adoration
>of the new & the young & the trendy over substance & talent is revolting.
>IMHO great pop music should be about MUSIC. PERIOD. FULL STOP. 
>
If you think Elvis in 1956, or the Beatles in 1964, Blondie in 1978, Nirvana in
1991 or any other major pop success were about music and music alone then you
are a total fool.

>I can't believe I'm even reading stuff like this on tha 4AD list. I've
>always seen 4AD as a label whose bands release quality music regardless
>of the fashion of the day & that's one of the main reasons why I've
>respected it.
>
$AD has always been about fashion, whether it was in or out.  Miki and Emma are
promoted as stars to indie kids in virtually the same way Whitney Houston is
peddled as such to the Top 40 set.  $AD is in the business of selling you on
it's 'stars', just as General Mills trys to sell you on Pop Tarts.  That means
selling you on Tanya Donnelly's smile as much as her new single.  I'm sorry,
but the sooner you make peace with this the better.

>I'd be surprised if she isn't already at least as old as the women in
>LUSH, but again what does that really have to do with music?
>
Yes, but she has a huge media glare on her and this enhances her star appeal -
whether that appeal affects you or not.  The enormous attention overshadows her
age handicap.

>Have fun with Green Day,
>
I only wish I was that naive...---
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Steven W. Schuldt                       |  sschuldt@newyork.bozell.com
Sr. Systems Administrator               |  "There are opportunities
Bozell, Jacobs, Kenyon & Eckhardt, Inc. |  in life for gaining
Advertising and Public Relations        |  knowledge and experience..."
Where the Wild Things Were              |       - Jeffrey Beaumont
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:02:03 -0800
From: Heretic-Toc the Eastre Clock (payn@chaph.usc.edu)
Subject: 4AD and adult album alternative radio


A while back, a new "adult album alternative" station started in LA at
101.9, and while they play an awful lot of music I have no interest in
(country, classic rock, etc.), they also seem to be playing more 4AD music
than any station I've ever heard. They're having a poll of each listener's
favorite three albums and songs of the year so they can play the top 101
songs and give the top 50 CDs away as a prize, and I've heard two of the
DJs mention their choices for top three albums--one put American Music Club
first and Heidi Berry third, and another put Kristin Hersh's Strings first
and AMC third.

What with all the speculation about whether Ivo's trying to "sell out" and
jump the current alternative/punk-pop bandwagon with bands like the
Breeders and Lush, I thought it was interesting that they seem to be doing
a better job at reaching the new, rapidly expanding AAA market. I wonder
what effect, if any, this will have on the future of 4AD....

Come to think of it, my mother did once tell me that Victorialand sounded
more like music for my grandmother than music I'd listen to (then again,
she still hasn't quite gotten her head around the fact that not all the
music I listen to is punk rock--maybe if I give her another decade....)

  _____________ ________________________________________________________
 / payn@usc.edu \ "Your payn is my reward... I am truth." -- Hate Dept. \
 \______________/_______________________________________________________/

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:36:54 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens_alfke@POWERTALK.APPLE.COM)
Subject: Re: Artists making bux


einexile opines:
>An artist has no business compromising the integrity of his form in order
>to make a buck.

No offense, but I always find this line of argument naive. By your standards,
then, the great Renaissance painters such as Fra Angelico and Michelangelo
sold out and destroyed their rights to be called great artists by painting
images of their corporate sponsors (e.g. Cosimo de Medici) into the groups of
people adoring the Christ Child? Did Bach lose it by naming the Brandenburg
Concertos after a prospective client in order to get his patronage?

  This whole "artists should not accept money or at least should not allow
the sources of the money to affect their work in the slightest" attitude
isn't any older than the mid 19th century. It smacks very much of the
Romantic movement. There's some merit to it, but I don't think it's the only
way to look at the place of the artist in society.

Jens Alfke ________ OpenDoc Mnemonist _______ jens_alfke@powertalk.apple.com
                                                      NewtonMail: Jens Alfke
The stars are so big, the earth is so small
                         ...stay as you are


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:18:00 -0800
From: mj_polder@CCMAIL.PNL.GOV
Subject: Fields of the Nephilm


     Hope I spelled the group right.

     I was shopping in a used record store Saturday and came across
     something that just had to be 4AD. It turned out to be a double album
     by the above mentioned group on Beggar's Banquet and I got it for $10.
     As I am currently without record player, does anyone know more about
     this band and what they sound like. I also picked up another album by
     them without a title, though it looked like it might be a 12' (I
     haven't open it yet.)

     Vinyl can be cool sometimes...

     matthew

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:16:09 -0500
From: Penniwyse (rickverm@CYBERSPACE.ORG)
Subject: Re: Fields of the Nephilm


cd/lp's by this band. they sound somewhat like Eldirgde from
the Sisters of Mercy. Pompuous, slow, heavy. It's a shame
they aren't together anymore (as far as I'm aware of) for
their concerts were great to look at. I've made some
fotographs of them in '88, as a matter of fact.
But listen before buying, since it's not the kind of music
that)s accessible for everyone.
Ciao, Penniwyse.

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994 mj_polder@CCMAIL.PNL.GOV wrote:

>      Hope I spelled the group right.
>
>      I was shopping in a used record store Saturday and came across
>      something that just had to be 4AD. It turned out to be a double album
>      by the above mentioned group on Beggar's Banquet and I got it for $10.
>      As I am currently without record player, does anyone know more about
>      this band and what they sound like. I also picked up another album by
>      them without a title, though it looked like it might be a 12' (I
>      haven't open it yet.)
>
>      Vinyl can be cool sometimes...
>
>      matthew


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:49:01 -0800
From: vilexile (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Artists making bux


On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Jens Alfke wrote:

> einexile opines:
> >An artist has no business compromising the integrity of his form in order
> >to make a buck.
>
> No offense, but I always find this line of argument naive. By your standards,
> then, the great Renaissance painters such as Fra Angelico and Michelangelo
> sold out and destroyed their rights to be called great artists by painting
> images of their corporate sponsors (e.g. Cosimo de Medici) into the groups of
> people adoring the Christ Child? Did Bach lose it by naming the Brandenburg
> Concertos after a prospective client in order to get his patronage?

I would agree with you here except that I have nothing against working on
commission, whether it's Lionel Richie singing about Pepsi or the angel
Gabriel constructing an ice sculpture of God in your living room. I do
however think that when an artist says to himself, "I have to make money
so this time I will not stand up for my beliefs," he is using the
position which he has attained by talent (or the public's lack of good
taste, as the case may well be) improperly. He has discovered that he can
make money this way, and so takes advantage of it by finding a niche and
hollowing it out until people realise it's tacky and put some iodine on
the wound. While no one was looking, he has debased the form, and though
I have nothing against him as a person if he honestly believes he has done
the right thing, many do not believe this. I also have a problem with
some of these things because they turn the culture into one which demands
certain kinds of behavior which are evil. Hence the pressure to put a UPC
on your album art.

On the other hand, since this whole thing started with my comments on the
new Love Spirals Downwards album and quickly became a thread about
selling out, I want to make clear my view that this UPC business *is* a
sellout of sorts, but only one of many thousand small ones that can be
made, one of which is signing to a label, one of which is letting
something you don't want released end up on a compilation, one of which
is not doing your own artwork. I really don't consider any of these to be
very important when the benefits outweigh the costs in integrity, and
wealth (or the potential to attain it) is a legitimate benefit. My anger
over the UPC is personal. I held the purity of Projekt close to my heart.
Perhaps this is irrational on my part, but the label has gained much by
appealing to things which are irrational and close to people's hearts. I
probably was pissed off and making value judgements at the time (I don't
remember! I was seeing red!) but what it really amounted to was various
negative emotions reacting to the ruining of something I held a little
bit sacred.

>   This whole "artists should not accept money or at least should not allow
> the sources of the money to affect their work in the slightest" attitude
> isn't any older than the mid 19th century. It smacks very much of the
> Romantic movement. There's some merit to it, but I don't think it's the only
> way to look at the place of the artist in society.

Well, you can look at things two different ways, but if they're in
conflict only one of them can be right, otherwise it's just that--an
attitude, and not anything intellectual. I'm not really clear on what
your objections are here, and would be interested to know. In what way do
*you* look at it?


 einexile

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:04:49 -0800
From: Jens Alfke (jens_alfke@POWERTALK.APPLE.COM)
Subject: Re: What on Earth happened to Seefeel???


Matt Hoessli writes:
>        Don't get me wrong, I am all for a band growing and exploring new
>territory, changing their sound and their approaches. In fact, I expect
>it, and was looking forward to Seefeel doing so. But the direction that
>Seefeel is going in is not only musically unrewarding for me, but feels
>more self-concious than genuine. Like it's something they feel they SHOULD
do
>rather than something they want to do.

I agree with you and e ... Seefeel seem to be developing into an AFX worship
society. That kind of distorted-beats minimalist stuff is nice, but I'll pop
the Selected Ambient Works into my discman if that's what I want. What I'd
like from Seefeel is the really original mix of ambient dub and shoegaziness.

(This rant was informed by "Fracture Tied" but not yet by "Lief", which is
about three songs away; I just picked up the Isolationism comp yesterday and
really dig it overall. Dark and scary ambient music/noise.)

Jens Alfke ________ OpenDoc Mnemonist _______ jens_alfke@powertalk.apple.com
                                                      NewtonMail: Jens Alfke
The stars are so big, the earth is so small
                         ...stay as you are

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:39:53 +0000
From: Mark A Stammers (mark.stammers@MAGDALEN.OXFORD.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Fields of the Nephilm


On Mon, 5 Dec 1994 mj_polder@CCMAIL.PNL.GOV wrote:

>      Hope I spelled the group right.
>
>      I was shopping in a used record store Saturday and came across
>      something that just had to be 4AD. It turned out to be a double album
>      by the above mentioned group on Beggar's Banquet and I got it for $10.
>      As I am currently without record player, does anyone know more about
>      this band and what they sound like. I also picked up another album by
>      them without a title, though it looked like it might be a 12' (I
>      haven't open it yet.)
>
>      Vinyl can be cool sometimes...
>
>      matthew
>
The Fields  of the Nephilim is one of the original wave of British Goth
bands that appeared during the 80's.  The only album that I have to hand
is 'The Nephilim'. This came out around 1988 on (I think) Situation Two.
While they are a true Goth band I also think that its fair to say that
they are quite thislisty.

Mark

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:42:47 -0500
From: Michel Battaglia (mikebee@FREENET.SCRI.FSU.EDU)
Subject: help, more subscription business!


ug! i sent mail to the correct address. it told me i was already
subscribed. but i get no posts! has the list just been dead or am i
missing everything, and if so why? arrrrgh! help! :)
mikebee

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:49:09 EST
From: KingofSweet (lycia@EDEN.RUTGERS.EDU)
Subject: Pram and Laika


could someone please give me a quick description of these two bands...i often
see them in the same sentence as stereolab and have been wondering if either
would make a good xmas gift for a stereolab fan...?

thanks,
peter

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:20:03 -0800
From: vilexile (einexile@netcom.com)
Subject: upc...lsd...hmm...


On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Randy Peppler wrote:

> >absolutely no say as to whether there will or will not be UPC code; it's a
> >decision made by the label.  So again, how is the artist compromising their
> >art??? (perhaps the label is doing the compromising?)

This was my initial point. It had little to do with LSD and more to do
with Projekt. I suppose Projekt would be wrong to deny LSD their wishes
for a bar code, since it is their record and you are right, they can put
whatever they want on it--some bands get a kick out of the upc and
incorporate it into their album art. Curve, Seefeel, and Nitzer Ebb come
immediately to mind, and I have nothing against them for the decision,
but at the time I figured it was Projekt's decision...so now I am faced
with the cruel fact that one of my favorite labels has been ruined by my
favorite band ON the label, in the process of doing something of which I
totally approve! Ah, the painful process that is capitalism, I love it
dearly...someone help me out here!


> Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't the bar codes also being used to track
> sales?  I seem to remember reading that they did away with the old
> ad hoc method of record stores keeping track of sales and then
> reporting them to such places as Billboard.  Now it's all done
> automatically...

I think you're right on this or at least close.


 einexile, suffering from inflamation of the free market


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:55:00 PST
From: Timothy Edwards (ECZ5TAE@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Artists making bux


Anyone that truly believes that if an artist writes "commercial" hit songs
to instantly make them money is naive. There are simply too many variables
in the making of a hit... writing has very little to do with it. Any artist
w/ credibility that thinks they can do this is naive. If the record fails, the
"sell-out" artist loses their credibility and their audience. The point is this
if you make excellent music and have a sellable "image" (whether it's Robert
Smith's "goth" look or Cobain's "who cares" look or Whitney Houston's "belter
of songs and glamorous" look) you may sell a ton of records or you may not.
The same goes if you intentionally write "hit" material... I hate it when
people say that if you write a catchy song and sell-out, you'll have a hit.
That's like saying you hate synthesizers/sequencers because there is no
creation by the artist, the computer does it all for you at the instant press
of a magic, LED-lit, button. This is not a flame to einexile or to anyone.
It's just that there are too many variables and grey areas to properly argue
this and unfortunately, there is no clear cut black and white w/ this issue.

> however think that when an artist says to himself, "I have to make money
> so this time I will not stand up for my beliefs," he is using the
> position which he has attained by talent (or the public's lack of good
> taste, as the case may well be) improperly. He has discovered that he can
> make money this way, and so takes advantage of it by finding a niche and
> hollowing it out until people realise it's tacky and put some iodine on
> the wound. While no one was looking, he has debased the form, and though
> I have nothing against him as a person if he honestly believes he has done
> the right thing, many do not believe this. I also have a problem with
> some of these things because they turn the culture into one which demands
> certain kinds of behavior which are evil. Hence the pressure to put a UPC
> on your album art.
> bit sacred.
>
>  einexile

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 19:49:05 +0100
From: Roland Ulbert (ulbert@ISIS.WU-WIEN.AC.AT)
Subject: Re: LSD, Faith & the Muse, a request,

              and a confession. Deal with it.
              3, 94 01:46:22 am

And lo!, vilexile spake unto the masses:
>
> >   anyone have any thoughts on faith and the muse?
>
> For those not in the know, this is Monica Richards from Strange Boutique
> and William Faith from Christian Death. All I can really say here is,
> Dear Steve, please kick these people around some and put the band back
> together. I will really miss you. Elyria is nice for Monica's vocals,
> which I must admit do near their high point, and much of the material is
> enjoyable in a goth sort of way, but the last Strange Boutique album
> makes it look like a joke, and what was strong about this album is
> poisoned by keyboard presets, folksy pretense, bad lyrics and that guitar
> effect local goth bands always use. Yuck, and what a waste. Despite my
> distaste for it, however, it is quite pretty. All things considered. :(
>
As I unfortunately do not know any Strange Boutique record, I cannot
make the comparison e does - however, I have to say that I like Elyria a
lot. To be sure, it is not perfect (I would say 30% is excellent, 40 %
is good, the rest is so-so), and the lyrics are indeed rather ridiculous
(but then, IMHO there are few bands who can sing occult/mystical babble
without sounding ridiculous (most World Serpent bands, for example)), but
neverless it is nice to listen too, and rather diverse, as the songs
sung by Monica are rather "darkwavey" in a LICTD way, and those by
William more "standard" goth.

TTFN,
        Roland


---------------------------------------------------------------
Roland Ulbert (ulbert@wu-wien.ac.at | a4431gab@awiuni11.bitnet)
---------------------------------------------------------------
             Only the madman is absolutely sure...


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:07:44 -0500
From: jOHN yOCHIM (jcy107@PSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: Pram and Laika


In message Mon, 5 Dec 1994
 the KingofSweet sat back in his thrown and asked his faithful subjects:

> could someone please give me a quick description of these two bands...i
> often see them in the same sentence as stereolab and have been wondering
> if either would make a good xmas gift for a stereolab fan...?

Alright there Peter.
But to understand Laika and Pram, one must have an understanding of
Moonshake.  If you like Moonshake, then you will probably like Laika and
maybe like Pram.

Laika is Mainly Margaret Fielder, John Frenett (guitarist/singer and bass
player for Moonshake) and Guy Fixson (producer for Moonshake, Moose,
others...)  I don't know how to properly describe their sound... But it's
very energetic-tribal-drum orientated, wonderfully unusual music.  My
girlfriend thinks it sounds just like Moonshake, but without Guitars...
Maybe.  I strongly recommend it to EVERYONE.  It's easily the greatest thing
I've heard since Moonshakes ep BIG GOOD ANGEL.  The Cd packaging itself is
worth the money.  The sleeve is the same brown paper that packages are
mailed im, and has LAIKA stamps pasted to it.  The track listing on the back
reads like a contents sticker.  It's hard to explain... you just have to see
it.

Pram, on the other hand, isn't for everyone.  Very Bizarre Music.  I have
the IRON LUNG ep, and have heard parts of HELIUM.  Someone once compared
them to Moonshake and MBV (loomer), but imagine it much more weird.
Susan Curran is the one to direct yr Pram questions to.  I like Iron Lung,
but hated it at first.  It sounds like they recorded some of those songs in
a barn.  The first song "Cumulus" is about seeing a UFO.  That song, and
"Blue Singer" are my personal fav.s, but thats because I'm drawn to guitar
orientated music more than anything else, and those two songs rely on the
guitar more than the other 2.

I'm rambling and wasting everyones time.  I hope someone can post a better
review.

So to answer yr question, I think Laika is a safer bet than Pram... Unless
yr Stereolab loving friend really enjoys strange music.  If you haven't
heard Moonshake, then I'd start w/ that, though (everything aside from the
latest album "the sound yr eyes can follow).
       -jOHN


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:26:22 +0000
From: Mark A Stammers (mark.stammers@MAGDALEN.OXFORD.AC.UK)
Subject: Re: Is it really just about the music?!


On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Simon Hughes wrote:

> Sanz wrote
>
> >AARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just had to say that I couldn't
> >disagree with you more. I think that this MTV attitude of total adoration
> >of the new & the young & the trendy over substance & talent is revolting.
> >IMHO great pop music should be about MUSIC. PERIOD. FULL STOP. It
> >certainly doesn't matter to me what the artists looks like or how blasted
> >old they are, or if their sound is hip. If their music is good (by my own
> >personal standards) that's all that matters.

Couldn't agree more, if you listen to a CD without knowing who its by and
like it and then change your mind when you find out who its by/what they
look like/how old they are, then you're an unfortunate fashion victim.

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:58:19 EST
From: Anna Osinski (osinski@PEGASUS.RUTGERS.EDU)
Subject: In Gowen Ring


 A couple of days ago I spotted a cd by a group called In Gowen Ring.
I don't quite remember the name of the album, something to do with charm.
It was on the World Serpent label.  It looks interesting but I've never heard
of them before.  Anybody out there have any info?

Thanks,
Anna

  "Now that all honest clocks bury oceans with
   sand, our tears have filled them once again." -Rozz Williams


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:17:03 -0800
From: vilexile (einexile@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Fields of the Nephilim


On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Penniwyse wrote:

> Re: if you are into real Gothic stuff I can highly recommend
> cd/lp's by this band. they sound somewhat like Eldirgde from
> the Sisters of Mercy. Pompuous, slow, heavy.

Only sometimes, though. The two albums in question sound to me like The
Nephilim and Earth Inferno. Much of The Nephilim is very bright, with an
open atmosphere. Nice ambience, picking with a smile, major seventh
chords, melancholy whisper-singing but not too evil. I'd sooner compare
them to The Glee Club than the Sisters, except for the vocals, of course.
;) Carl McCoy is the greatest singer on the planet, though. He's got that
something,like Ian McCulloch, Anneli Drecker, Brendan Perry, and a very
few other people. He can do practically *anything* with it. He sounds
much like the dude from Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, actually, though I'd
compare his style more with Matt Johnson (The The), only more extreme and
not usually as soulful.

> On Mon, 5 Dec 1994 mj_polder@CCMAIL.PNL.GOV wrote:
>
> >      Hope I spelled the group right.

Ya left off an "i" but I think you've come the closest on anyone on this
list in quite some time. ;)

> >      I was shopping in a used record store Saturday and came across
> >      something that just had to be 4AD. It turned out to be a double album
> >      by the above mentioned group on Beggar's Banquet and I got it for $10.

It looks like 4AD because Chris Bigg designed it and did the calligraphy,
and the art is by Simon Larbalestier who has did some of the Pixies art,
among other things.

> >      As I am currently without record player, does anyone know more about
> >      this band and what they sound like. I also picked up another album by
> >      them without a title, though it looked like it might be a 12' (I
> >      haven't open it yet.)

By all means, buy a record player and throw it on! All the *kool* people
on this list will swear by them.

> >      Vinyl can be cool sometimes...

Yeah, like when you've got the CD too for when you actually want to
listen to it. :)


 einexile

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:22:39 -0800
From: Kelli-Jeanne (kelli@NETCOM.COM)
Subject: ...laika...


  laika is ecstacy whispers from outer space.
  laika is what happens when stars become marimbas & the moon a drum.
  laika is not stereolab, but a much sweeter ear candy....

  laika are so very "me"... *k*

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:34:12 -0600
From: Sanz (bighat@ripco.com)
Subject: Re: Stars, Pop Tarts and Tanya


Steve,

If its naive to listen to music for its own sake then I'm glad to be
naive.

Of course I don't think that the Beatles, Elvis, et. al. were simply about
music - teen idols never are. I had no idea that in your initial post you
were speaking from the point of view of a 14 year-old. I thought Duran
Duran were really cute, but I've always thought that their music sucked.

I'm aware of the marketing aspect of 4AD and every other label on this
planet as a music writer I see more of that stuff than most, BUT I'm not
going to let it dictate what I listen to. I had no idea what CT, DCD,
Slowdive, Arvo Part, Nick Drake, Low, The Smiths, Bark Psychosis, Seefeel,
Bailter Space, Verve, Birthday Party, Japan, and many others looked like
when I first heard them and it didn't matter. Hype & physical beauty may
be the cause of the initial attraction, but if there is no musical
substance behind it then I'm just not going to listen to it.

What a shame, if you went blind tomorrow you'd have to forget about
music entirely.

Sanz
****************
Sanz Lashley SHE-dreampop straight up w/ a noisy chaser!
      snail: 5602 N. Ridge, Chicago, IL 60660

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:09:57 -0500
From: Gil Gershman (BisonBoy@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Pram and Laika


While Stereolab has that "moogmaniac" thing going, Pram uses keyboards in a
very different way. I'd say that structure/style wise they are much closer to
His Name Is Alive. They mix spacey-sounding 'board samples with harsh
guitars, surrealistic lyrics, and some really "out there" sounds. If the
person is a Stereolab fan, try Labradford's "Prazision LP" on Kranky. It's
very atmospheric keyboard/guitar music with a dark and introspective edge.
One of the best albums of the year, easilly.
Laika is far more original than can be summed up in a few words. They are the
half of Moonshake (another amazing band, then and now) which dealt in
disturbing, softspoken musical collages of a very abstract nature. Margaret
Fiedler has this incredibly ominous voice which is still sweet enough to be
comforting. The music is wildly various - ranging from dischordant guitar
lines to groovey dub. The percussion is incredibly complex, and the overall
effect is simply unique. Nothing like Stereolab, though.
They get mentioned together because they were all on Too Pure UK at one
point. T.P. is an incredible label, known for innovation and integrity, much
like early-day 4AD.
For a cheaper taste of these bands, try to find:

Moonshake - Big Good Angel EP (Matador) - listen to Fiedler's
                    tracks. If you like that, you'll definitely dig Laika.
The
                    other tracks (by Wolfhound John Callahan) are Lydon-
                    esque and, while abstract and dub-by, a little more
                    linear. Still incredible, I assure you.
Laika - Antenna EP (Too Pure UK) - 2 mixes of "Marimba Song",
                    a strange AFX-like ethno/techno piece, and another
                    non LP track. It has the Laika feel. You'll like-a!
Pram - Meshes EP (Too Pure UK) - It got me completely hooked on
                    this band - and I got it by accident! (Alternate
selection
                    by mail order). The art is Too Cool, the music is a good
                    selection of their various modes (jazzy, ethereal, etc).

Hope this was helpful!

May I also add that Stereolab's first album "Peng!" on Too Pure is a
necessity for any music lover. It's their hardest to find, but it's some of
their best stuff to date (also the EP comp "Switched On" on Slumberland).
Hell, everything they've done is great!

BisonBoy (Gil Gershman)


Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:34:27 -0800
From: Fun Gus (queso@U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Fields of the Nephilm


I bought a CD by them on the reccomendation of a friend of mine... I got
"Laura", which was the only one which the store carried (Blockbuster
Music, I'm afraid).  He later told me it was their first and worst album.

I like some of it, but seriously it sounds *exactly* like the Sisters of
Mercy both in music and in vocals.  The aforementioned friend tells me
they got much better with age and developed a better style of their own,
more gothy and melodic (or something to that effect).

So I'd say it's best to look for something later in their career.

skye


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 12-5-1994