4ad-l Mail for 11-25-1994

Mail in Archive

Subject: Re: Record Lables
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 02:00:00 LCL
From: "Neil G." (NEILG@AURUM.CHEM.WITS.AC.ZA)
Subject: channelling whathisname
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 09:21:00 +0200
From: Adrian Sevitz (adrian.sevitz@digitec.co.za)
Subject: K Hersch / Guitar
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 13:28:00 +0200
From: Adrian Sevitz (adrian.sevitz@digitec.co.za)
Subject: Selling Out
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 10:57:43 -0500
From: Jan Hanford (imagdemo@CLARK.NET)
Subject: AVAM cd Found
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 08:52:33 -0500
From: Deb (indigo@UNIVERSE.DIGEX.NET)
Subject: Re: Ivo = Peep Bo
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 11:30:56 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: v23 / Vaughan Oliver Fonts needed
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 17:36:48 +0100
From: Laurent Lapierre (t3_0038@EFP.POZNAN.PL)
Subject: Re: roast beef with potatoes...oh! the horror!
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 11:50:26 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: 4AD-L IRC Conference?
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 13:06:35 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: DCD "Cantara" vocals on "Toward the Within"
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 13:12:34 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Ivo = Peep Bo
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 10:53:34 -0800
From: Brant Nelson (nelson@EGGNEB.ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Ivo = Peep Bo
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 14:57:35 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: voting for cocteau...
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 10:57:19 -0800
From: Jack B Huynh (jhuy@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: 4AD, Beggars Banquet, and Warner Bros.
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 16:05:42 -0500
From: jtgayton@POLISCI.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: Selling out and related punk crap
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 15:59:06 -0500
From: Richard Singer (wk03814@WORLDLINK.COM)
Subject: Re: DCD languages
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 22:52:43 -0800
From: Richard Singer (wk03814@WORLDLINK.COM)
Subject: Re: 4AD, Beggars Banquet, and Warner Bros.
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 20:09:59 -0800
From: Brett Bull (eaeg348@EA.OAC.UCI.EDU)

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 02:00:00 LCL
From: "Neil G." (NEILG@AURUM.CHEM.WITS.AC.ZA)
Subject: Re: Record Lables


>this record lable thread has really confused me. Who owns who, what how and
>why. What is the difference between 4AD, Warner, Beggars Ban.

I did not receive many messages this morning so I suppose there is a
backlog somewhere and that they will come in soon.  So I don't know
if this question has been answered yet.  In case it hasn't (or else
hit your 'NEXT' key):
In late '79 and '80 Ivo Watt's-Russel who had been managing several
of Beggars Banquet's (an English record label) record stores in
London and partner Peter Kent wanted to release music that no other
labels would.  They persuaded Beggars Banquet to part with 2000
pounds and released four singles on a label they called Axis.  This
name was then changed to 4AD (see Jens Alfke's FAQ).  4AD was
supposed to act as a "talent scout" label and the bands that
succeeded on it would then move onto Beggars Banquet as Bauhaus did.
Bauhaus' 'In the Flat Field' however generated enough money for Ivo
to move away from Beggars and concentrate fulltime on 4AD.  I am
however sure that they still have a finger in 4AD's pie, why then
would their name appear on the new DCD?  I think Peter Kent left in
'82 and started up another sister label to Beggars Banquet called
Situation Two.  You may have noticed a few Fields of the Nephilim
records first released on this label.  Warner are the people who look
after 4AD releases in the US.

    Keep well,
    Neil
    (waiting for Watt's inevitable response to yesterday's rib-poking -
    i think i shall just keep my head low)


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 09:21:00 +0200
From: Adrian Sevitz (adrian.sevitz@digitec.co.za)
Subject: channelling whathisname


If Lisa is channeling G-d, is she then Metatron.

Gnome
BTW - Metaron is (mythalogicaly speaking) the voice of G-d.


    +-------------+--------------------------------+--------------------+
    |   _____     |  Gnome                         | She called me      |
    |  ( o o )    |  adrian.sevitz@digtec.co.za    | from the corner    |
    |  (__v__)    |  P.O.Box 786782                | of a song I never  |
    |     |       |  Sandton                       | liked.             |
    |  *--+--*    |  2146                          |                    |
    |     |       |  South Africa                  |     The            |
    |   _/ \_     |                                |     Drovers        |
    +-------------+--------------------------------+--------------------+
---
 . SPEED 1.40 [NR] . Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight

----
Digitec Online - South Africa


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 13:28:00 +0200
From: Adrian Sevitz (adrian.sevitz@digitec.co.za)
Subject: K Hersch / Guitar


I have just been listing to the Kristin Hersh single of Your Ghost.
Track three is a song called "Uncle June and Aunt Kiyoti"
Now I dont know very much about guitar, except maybey that you dont blow
into it or band it to get music, but it sounds like KH is both picking and
strumming the guitar at the sam time. How the hell does she do that.

Gnome
... eyes wide open, I could have been dead ... KH - UJ&AK

    +-------------+--------------------------------+--------------------+
    |   _____     |  Gnome                         | She called me      |
    |  ( o o )    |  adrian.sevitz@digtec.co.za    | from the corner    |
    |  (__v__)    |  P.O.Box 786782                | of a song I never  |
    |     |       |  Sandton                       | liked.             |
    |  *--+--*    |  2146                          |                    |
    |     |       |  South Africa                  |     The            |
    |   _/ \_     |                                |     Drovers        |
    +-------------+--------------------------------+--------------------+
---
 . SPEED 1.40 [NR] . The show must go on - Queen

----
Digitec Online - South Africa


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 10:57:43 -0500
From: Jan Hanford (imagdemo@CLARK.NET)
Subject: Selling Out


>of punks beat the $#%@ out of Jello Biafra (Dead Kennedys, Lard) and
>put him in hospital for "selling out".  Can you imagine if we applied
>the same philosophy(?!) to 4AD bands.  Right now i'm thinking of that
>picture of Jack H (Cocteau's WWW home page) standing next to Liz
>Frazer- imagine if he turned around, headbutted her and sayed,
>"That's for selling out bitch!".  Then there's Ronny Moorings of
>Xymox-smash his synthesizer repeatedly over his head, and then tell
>him to go and buy a new one because that one was making crap music.

Although this was meant to be a criticism of Liz Fraser and Ronnie Moorings,
I am appalled that people actually think beating the #%@& out of eachother
is amusing in the 1990's.  And some people actually do it!?!  When will the
world change?  (I think I'm the only person on the planet who likes the
lastest Xymox by the way).

Jan Hanford
(who grew up in the '60's and is upset by violence)

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 08:52:33 -0500
From: Deb (indigo@UNIVERSE.DIGEX.NET)
Subject: AVAM cd Found



Have the AVAM CDs been tough to find? I saw one the other day at Best Buys,
if you have one of those in your area. They're sprouting up all over the DC
area.  Pretty good CD selection, great prices.

--
Deb/ indigo@universe.digex.net / Fri 11-25-1994, 8:54:45 am EST / Yarn 0.73

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 11:30:56 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Ivo = Peep Bo


Previous Message:
>The Peel Session title of the Cocteau song "Ivo" is
>really "Peep Bo" which is also what she's saying. I've
>seen it in print. Also in that Peel Session was another song
>from Treasure ("Beatrix"?) which then had a title that John Peel
>pronounced sounding like "Weesht".

Ha! So I was right, it _is_ "Peep Bo" (I'll pretend like I didn't spell it
with a hyphen before, even though I think I did, so I can look even more
right), not "Pink Bow." Who'd name a cat "Pink Bow" anyway?

  ___________ ______________________________________________________________
 /   payn@    \ "Let an artist show you how to bring a curse down on Satan" \
/ scf.usc.edu /                         --Hilt                              /
\____________/_____________________________________________________________/


I think you may be a bit confused.  The CURRENT song titles are the ones
supposedly named for Liz's cats.  Which would mean she supposedly has a
cat named "Ivo", one named "Lorelei", one named "Beatrix", etc. Whatever.
I don't know if the cat thing is a verifiable rumour or not anyway. And
WHEN did anyone ever see authentic Cocteau Twins lyrics in PRINT?  The
only time I've EVER seen CT lyrics in print was on the original UK release
for "Garlands" on vinyl, which had passages from each of the songs on the
outer sleeve.  Brant, do you somehow have access to Liz's lyric sheets?
Just because the labeling on a BOOTLEG says a song is called such and such,
doesn't mean it's accurate.  I'm not really being argumentative, just try-
ing to make sense in a thread that seems to be going nowhere.

By the way, the Cocteau Twins Home Page URL is



Mike

(Who's pissed that he has to work today....)


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 17:36:48 +0100
From: Laurent Lapierre (t3_0038@EFP.POZNAN.PL)
Subject: v23 / Vaughan Oliver Fonts needed


I known this question has been posted one or two weeks ago,
but I really be happy if anyone who has got theses fonts could
e-mail me a uuencode version or give me an ftp adress to find them
(if they are on a ftp site of course...)

I was not here when the discussion about these fonts have taken place
so I don't know if there are one or several fonts and if it's Windows /
Mac / Poscript... I've a Mac here but I can manage with Poscript and Windows too
..

Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Laurent LAPIERRE               Mobile radio communication student
                                             lapier_l@int-evry.fr
-----------------------------------------------------------------
'Je passe le plus clair de mon temps a l'obscurcir
 parce que la lumiere me gene. '                       Boris Vian

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 11:50:26 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: roast beef with potatoes...oh! the horror!


Hey....

Regarding the "Library Girl" song on AVAM, you may recall I mentioned
that a middle portion of the lyrics is sort of a soda-pop jingle --
like some old radio advertisement -- for a soda called Nu Grape.

Well, if one listens carefully during that portion of the song -- the
part where she's singing "I got your ice cold Nu Grape..." and all that --
the sound that to me originally sounded like a bunch of fuzz guitar, is
actually the ORIGINAL jingle being sung by a man, but put through some
serious distortion.  Has anyone else realized this?  I DOES sound like
fuzz guitar at first.

Mike


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 13:06:35 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: 4AD-L IRC Conference?


Hi All,

I was just curious as to whether or not everyone or most of us, at least,
has or have access to IRC.  If most of us do, or if even a large percentage
of us do, would anyone be interested in having a regularly scheduled 4AD
Conference on IRC?

I just thought that perhaps this would be nice so that we could chat in
real-time (more or less) without cluttering the list with a lot of stuff
that will just waste bandwidth or create bloated digests.  I wouldn't
be surprised if this was tried before and failed.  I know it doesn't sound
like a terribly original idea.  But, nevertheless, is anyone interested
in trying?


Of course, this would be further complicated by the fact that we live all
over the world, wouldn't it?  Perhaps there could be scheduled conferences
at various times, and anyone on the list could join in whenever they
wanted.  Perhaps also someone could keep track of any significant info
exchanged during the conference and condense and transcribe the info
to the list on the next day.  Sort of like a conference log or minutes
kept at a meeting.


Another consideration would be access to the conference.  How  do we know
who all is on the list. We don't really know everyone by name or e-mail
address (aren't there about 320 of us?).  I know it's possible to set-upp
a conference on IRC that is Invitation only, though.  That would be
nice so as to keep out the Beavis and Butthead idiots.


Anyway, it all sounds like a lot of work.  But intriguing nonetheless.

Isn't it amazing what one cup of strong coffee can do for the brain? It's
like a humming sound.....a thousand stars burst open.


Mike

(Still pissed that he must work today, but feeling better.)

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 13:12:34 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: DCD "Cantara" vocals on "Toward the Within"


Has anyone recognized that at the end of "Cantara" on "Toward the Within",
Lisa segues into the vocals from "Dreams Made Flesh" (is that the title?
or is it "Waves Become Wings"?) from TMC "It'll End In Tears"?  I im-
mediately recognized the sudden difference in the vocals and found it rather
interesting.  I love it when artists do things like that.


Mike


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 10:53:34 -0800
From: Brant Nelson (nelson@EGGNEB.ASTRO.UCLA.EDU)
Subject: Re: Ivo = Peep Bo


> outer sleeve.  Brant, do you somehow have access to Liz's lyric sheets?
> Just because the labeling on a BOOTLEG says a song is called such and such,
> doesn't mean it's accurate.  I'm not really being argumentative, just try-

No, because everything I've ever heard leads me to believe she has never
written down her lyrics. What I'm going from is the fact that John Peel
himself said these titles on the radio and the former title for "ivo"
was mentioned in some interview, which I think probably was from that
WOMAD album that has "Pink Orange Red" on it. I'll check the booklet
right now, shall I? Yes, for what it's worth, here's the quote:


original title."


name because I was around being called it! I like the name as well."

all the song titles on 'Treasure' are names. They're not names for any
specific reason apart from the fact they're names that Elizabeth
personally liked! Far better to call a song 'Beatrix' thtn John'!
It's also an attempt to get away from 'titles', putting across to people
that titles are not really that important - just a name will suffice."


There you have it. So I suspect that the 'names of her cats'
thing is made up.

brant


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 14:57:35 -0500
From: Another Reason to Cut Off an Ear (ICEBLINK@DELPHI.COM)
Subject: Re: Ivo = Peep Bo


Thanks, Brant. Interesting. I figured the cat thing was a joke. Simon's

all the song titles on 'Treasure' are names. They're not names for any
specific reason apart from the fact they're names that Elizabeth
personally liked! Far better to call a song 'Beatrix' thtn John'!
It's also an attempt to get away from 'titles', putting across to people
that titles are not really that important - just a name will suffice."


makes WORLDS of sense.


Mike


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 10:57:19 -0800
From: Jack B Huynh (jhuy@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU)
Subject: voting for cocteau...


it seems that my last message didn't get through the list. anyway, i have
a poll running at the cocteau twins site and it would be cool to see what
your fave albums and songs are. the url is in my .sig

jack (the 13th month) huynh
jhuy@garnet.berkeley.edu


Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 16:05:42 -0500
From: jtgayton@POLISCI.WISC.EDU
Subject: 4AD, Beggars Banquet, and Warner Bros.


Well, my question about 4AD and Warner Bros. got some interesting stuff
going on the list!  Let's see if I can add any information.

1.  To my knowledge, Beggars Banquet has no connection to 4AD anymore.   In
addition to being a record label, Beggars Banquet is also a publishing
company.  So,  when Beggars Banquet occasionally appears on 4AD stuff, it
does so only as publisher.  Ivo and the other guy bought out Beggars Banquet
long ago.

2.  I have been bummed about the 4AD-Warner Bros. deal, not so much because
it's a sell out but because it makes it so much harder to get the UK stuff
here.  I'm sure that Ivo has complete control to release whatever music he
wants (if not when he wants -- i.e., TWP -- and if not singles and eps --
i.e., "Shock Me") and do whatever artwork Vaughan wants.  His 1990 comments
may seem a bit hipocritical today, but remember at that time COCTEAU TWINS
were fighting to get off the label and he was pretty bummed with the whole
business side of things (remember the M/A/R/R/S fiasco as well?).  More
recent interviews with him have seen him a bit more excited about things
again.  And hey, what better way to get 4AD and it's "label identity" across
in the US by creating a US subsidiary through a major?  It would have been
massively expensive to set up 4AD US independently and risky to do so
through an existing US independent label.  And remember, just because it's
"indie" doesn't mean it isn't sleazy or corrupt.  Anyone heard of SST?

-Jeff

Jeffrey T. Gayton
jtgayton@polisci.wisc.edu
(608) 259-9084
212 West Gilman  #111
Madison, WI  53703

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 15:59:06 -0500
From: Richard Singer (wk03814@WORLDLINK.COM)
Subject: Re: Selling out and related punk crap


    "Neil G."  wrote:

>The stale lump of boil oozings (who is a friend in case anyone
>misinteperates my intentions) put a long finger up his nose, changed a
>gear and came up with the following:
>>In my early "punk/fanzine/vandalise a butcher" days we used to have a
>>name for all this.....we called it "SELLING OUT".
>
>I remember reading a story at the beginning of the year where a bunch
>of punks beat the $#%@ out of Jello Biafra (Dead Kennedys, Lard) and
>put him in hospital for "selling out".  Can you imagine if we applied
>the same philosophy(?!) to 4AD bands.  Right now i'm thinking of that
>picture of Jack H (Cocteau's WWW home page) standing next to Liz
>Frazer- imagine if he turned around, headbutted her and sayed,
>"That's for selling out bitch!".  Then there's Ronny Moorings of
>Xymox-smash his synthesizer repeatedly over his head, and then tell
>him to go and buy a new one because that one was making crap music.
>
>     Neil  -who just about had the $#%! beaten out him by punks in a
>            Punk/Goth club when he was 15 (1985) for having pointy
>            shoes etc. aaaaaaaaah-the good 'ol days ;)

Neil,

The heyday of punk was not when you were 15, but when *I* was 15, back
in the mid-'70s.  That was a time of experimentation and much greater
flexibility regarding what you could wear or do to be punk.  The hardcore
phase that you're talking about was, in my mind, developed when conformists
began to take over the scene from true nonconformists, and anarchism was
replaced by a petty kind of fascism that simply called itself anarchism
once in a while.  The irony about punk Neanderthals who consider any
variation from the accepted form to be "selling out" is that:  1. their
attitudes are diametrically opposed to the original punk ethos and 2.
by adhering to a form that is so old and easily recognizable, they are
making themselves easier marketing targets.  If we look at MTV's
so-called "alternative" programming, we'll find these days that it is
dominated by punk.  Now you can sell out and actually sound
more "punk" at the same time.  Even the bands that look punk as we used
to know it -- be they Green Day (neo-late-'70s) or Rancid (neo-early-'80s)
are extremely marketable now.

Personally, I don't care about whether a band is supposedly "selling
out," as long as they are producing music that is exciting, different and/or
enlightening.  Unfortunately, especially here in the U.S., the only
stuff that sells is stuff that has been made safe over time.  Punk and
and the forms immediately derived from it (including a lot of this riot
gggrrlll stuff) are awfully safe today, *because* of their droning hard
guitars as well as their easily recognizable and thus marketable
"rebellion."

Ironically :-),

Richard Singer

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 15:56:18 -0500
From: Richard Singer (wk03814@WORLDLINK.COM)
Subject: Re: DCD languages


Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 22:52:43 -0800 > >I've interviewed Lisa and she is loathe to say what she sings >is any language at all. "It's the language where the tongue is >the drum." If you've seen the Toward The Within video, you >know what I'm talking about. Exactly. Lisa said that she invented words to take her to a place more beautiful than any place she's been. Sometimes, I do have to agree with that! The "tongue is the drum" notion is hardly her invention, though, but comes, rather, from a long tradtion in Eastern music. I learned this from Sheila Chandra. She is known lately for her "Speaking In Tongues" pieces, which are based on a tradition of Indian vocal percussion, a device once used as a "teaching device for drummers," which "has become an art form in its own right" (from liner notes to _Weaving My Ancestors' Voices_). Given Lisa Gerrard's interests in Eastern music, I imagine that she had full knowledge of this Indian tradition and was consciously influenced by it. But Lisa's description, "the tongue is the drum," really understates what she does with this. Unlike Chandra, Lisa Gerrard can bring out beautiful melodies and emotions without uttering a real word. (Chandra, on the other hand, simply drums with her tongue -- or else she sings, and that's an entirely different mode for her.) I'd say that Lisa's technique is more than Indian tongue-drumming and more than scatting or anything else it can be compared to; it really is something all her own. -- Richard Singer

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 20:09:59 -0800
From: Brett Bull (eaeg348@EA.OAC.UCI.EDU)
Subject: Re: 4AD, Beggars Banquet, and Warner Bros.


> through an existing US independent label.  And remember, just because it's
> "indie" doesn't mean it isn't sleazy or corrupt.  Anyone heard of SST?

I find nothing sleazy or corrupt with SST. Their problem is the failure
to put out anything new. Black Flag, Husker Du and the Descendents are
great but they are also old and tiresome. SST has failed to realize this.

Brett


erikas@evo.org, last updated by Eyesore Automation on 11-25-1994