4ad-l Mail for 11-03-1994

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Thu, 3 Nov 1994 19:43:12

Your  subscription to  the 4AD-L  list (4ad  recording artists  list) has  been

Please  save this  message  for future  reference, especially  if  you are  not
familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like  a waste of disk space now, but in
6 months you will be glad you  saved this information when you realize that you
cannot  remember what  are the  lists you  are subscribed  to, or  what is  the
command to  leave the list to  avoid filling up  your mailbox while you  are on
vacations.  In fact,  you  should create  a new  mail  folder for  subscription
confirmation messages  like this one, and  for the "welcome messages"  from the
list owners that  you are will occasionally receive after  subscribing to a new

To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the list, just send
mail to  [email protected]. This  is called "sending  mail to  the list",
because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV makes copies for all the
people  who have  subscribed.  This address  ([email protected]) is  also
called the  "list address".  You must  never try  to send  any command  to that
address, as it would be distributed to  all the people who have subscribed. All
commands  must be  sent to  the "LISTSERV  address", [email protected]  (or
[email protected]). It is very  important to understand the difference
between the two, but fortunately it is not complicated. The LISTSERV address is
like a  FAX number, and the  list address is like  a normal phone line.  If you
make your  FAX call someone's  regular phone number by  mistake, it will  be an
unpleasant experience for him but you  will probably be excused the first time.
If you  do it regularly,  however, he  will probably get  upset and send  you a
nasty complaint.  It is the same  with mailing lists, with  the difference that
you are calling hundreds or thousands of people at the same time, so a lot more
people get annoyed if you use the wrong number.

You may  leave the list  at any  time by sending  a "SIGNOFF 4AD-L"  command to
[email protected]  (or  [email protected]).   You  can  also  tell
LISTSERV how  you want it to  confirm the receipt  of messages you send  to the
list. If  you do not  trust the  system, send a  "SET 4AD-L REPRO"  command and
LISTSERV will send  you a copy of your  own messages, so that you  can see that
the message was distributed  and did not get damaged on the  way. After a while
you may  find that this  is getting annoying,  especially if your  mail program
does not  tell you that the  message is from you  when it informs you  that new
mail has  arrived from 4AD-L.  If you send a  "SET 4AD-L ACK  NOREPRO" command,
LISTSERV  will  mail you  a  short  acknowledgement  instead, which  will  look
different in  your mailbox  directory. With  most mail  programs you  will know
immediately that  this is an acknowledgement  you can read later.  Finally, you
can turn off acknowledgements completely with "SET 4AD-L NOACK NOREPRO".

Contributions sent to this list are  automatically archived. You can get a list
of  the  available  archive  files  by sending  an  "INDEX  4AD-L"  command  to
[email protected] (or [email protected]). You can then order these
files with a  "GET 4AD-L LOGxxxx" command, or using  LISTSERV's database search
facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter.

Please note that it is presently possible for anybody to determine that you are
signed up to  the list through the  use of the "REVIEW"  command, which returns
the e-mail  address and name of  all the subscribers.  If you do not  want your
name to be visible, just issue a "SET 4AD-L CONCEAL" command.

More information  on LISTSERV commands can  be found in the  LISTSERV reference
card,  which  you  can  retrieve  by  sending  an  "INFO  REFCARD"  command  to
[email protected] (or [email protected]).

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4AD-L Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) List
Release 13 -- 13 October 1994

  List Etiquette
  Musical Questions
  Whatever Happened To...?
  Discography / Groupography
  Other 4AD Questions


This is the list of Frequently Asked Questions for the 4AD-List, an Internet
mailing list devoted to the 4AD record label and the bands on it, such as
Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, the Breeders, Throwing Muses, etc. Other music
of a similar nature (generally swirly/ethereal/noisy) is also discussed; see
below under "List Etiquette".

This list was compiled by Jens Alfke . Please
send any suggestions or corrections my way (preferably as updates to
individual questions, not copies of the entire FAQ with changes made to it;
the latter is very difficult to merge into the real FAQ.)

Alphabetical thanks to Brent Aliverti, Theo Buchler, Susan Curran,
Kelli-Jeanne Drum, Jeff Gayton, David Gilles-Thomas, Christopher Hanks, Dave
Hanna, Steve W Hill, Thomas Homulka, Simon Hughes, Neil Impellus, Al Kolman,
Julian Lawton, Brant Nelson, A J Norman, Andrew Reynhout, Keith Richmond,
Jason Schmit, Dr Bruce Scott, David Sokol, Robert Stanzel, and Geordie Torr
for their help so far!

If you are receiving this as part of your introductory 4AD-L mailing, then
**PLEASE** hang onto this FAQ, or at least keep a copy of the "Administrivia"
section, as it explains -->how to unsubscribe<--. On that sad day you will
not regret having the information handy.


Q: How do I subscribe to the 4AD-List?
A: Send a message to the ListServ at  or
. The body should of the message should be:
  subscribe 4AD-L Joe Schmo
where you of course replace "Joe Schmo" with your real name (not your e-mail
address). You should hear back from the ListServ pretty quickly.

Q: How do I post a message to the list?
A: Send your message to <[email protected]> or <[email protected]> and
it will go to everyone on the list. On most mail systems, replying to a
message from the list should automatically direct it there. (Watch out when
replying directly to the sender that you don't accidentally send to the whole

Q: HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE / turn off my mail while I'm on vacation / receive
mail in daily digest form?
A: Send a message to the ListServ at  or
. The body should contain a ListServ command:
To unsubscribe:  SIGNOFF 4AD-L
To put mail on hold: SET 4AD-L NOMAIL
To take mail off hold: SET 4AD-L MAIL
To get mail in daily-digest form: SET 4AD-L DIGEST
To get messages one at a time: SET 4AD-L MAIL
For full details, consult the ListServ message you got when you first

Q: HELP! I've tried to unsubscribe using the method above and it doesn't
A: This can happen if the current return address of your unsubscribe message
is not the same as the address you subscribed with, i.e. if your mail system
has been tweaked slightly since you subscribed. Here's what you do next,
courtesy of Dr Bruce Scott:
  1) Send mail to [email protected] or [email protected]
  with no subject line, and the single line "review 4ad-l" in the body.

  2) You will get a file back with the list of 4ad-l subscribers. Search
  that list for your name to find out what address you originally
  subscribed under.

  3a) If that address is still your current address, send another
  message to the above address, no subject line, with the single
  line "signoff 4ad-l" in the body.

  3b) If that address is _not_ your current address, you need to get
  your sysop to do it for you. You need the "node administrator" (your
  sysop) to use the single line command (as above)
  "for  signoff 4ad-l". This type of command _must_ be sent
  from @node, where "user" is "maint", "postmast", or "postmaster".

  4) For further information, send mail to the above address with the
  single line "info refcard".

Q: If all else fails, can I talk to a real human about my subscription?
A: The owner of the list is Jim Jones:
    or .

Q: Are there archives of previous months' postings?
A: Everything ever posted to 4AD-L is saved in archive files. They are
separated by month, with names like 4ad-l.log9306 (for June 93), or
4ad-l.log9211 (for Nov 92) for instance. There are two ways to get them. The
first is to send a listserver command to the Bitnet or Internet address
listed above:
    get 4ad-l log9306
The other is by ftp. If you are using a Unix system, the command is:
    ftp jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu
(FTP is also accessible from Macs or DOS PCs with IP addresses, but the user
interface varies.) Logon as 'anonymous' and give any password. Move to the
4ad-l directory (In Unix, "cd 4ad-l") and get whatever file you want ("get
4ad-l.log9306"). You can list the files with the command ls.


Q: What kind of music can be discussed on 4AD-L?
A: Anything to do with the 4AD record label, its present and former recording
artists, or 23 Envelope/v23/Vaughn Oliver, is obviously fair game. There is
also much discussion of bands whose members have appeared on 4AD recordings
(Cindytalk, Shelleyan Orphan), bands that are on 4AD in parallel universes
(Slowdive, Cranes, My Bloody Valentine, Sundays, anybody on Too Pure) and
noisy pop in general. Use discretion.

Q: What non-4AD bands do people on the list like the best?
A: The following partial list of our favorite 1992 non-4AD releases may be of
help; thanks to Lars Ingebrigtsen for running the voting!
The Boo Radleys, Pavement, Ride, SpinART's "One Last Kiss" comp, PJ Harvey,
My Bloody Valentine, Juliana Hatfield, Spiritualized, Tel Basta, Catherine
Wheel, Sugar, Sonic Youth, Medicine, The Beautiful South, Skinny Puppy,
Kitchens of Distinction, Cranes, The Orb, Curve... (Some of these are really
from 1991; so sue us...)

Q: What does the word "thislisty" mean?
A: It's an adjective, referring to the kind of music discussed on 4AD-L. See
the previous answers for details.

Q: Is it kosher to advertise items for sale/trade?
A: Yup, and it's done all the time. Please, if you do this, make sure to tell
people to reply to you personally, not the list. (See below...)

Q: I was listening to Dead Can Dance the other day while tripping on 'shrooms
and wrote some really un-fuckin-believable stream of consciousness poetry
that I'd like to share with the list since it was influenced by my listening
to 4AD music.
A: It's been done. No sir, we didn't like it. Try alt.poetry or /dev/null

Q: How do I send a reply to just the sender of a message, and not the entire
A: Thanks for asking; for some reason, the list is periodically inundated by
personal replies sent by people who didn't think about or get an answer to
this. Having said that, we can only reply that the details are specific to
your mail system. Try consulting your system administrator or reading a
manual. As a last resort, if you have access to the message header you can
read off the "From:" address and type it into the "To:" field of a new
If you absolutely have no alternative but to send a personal message via the
entire list, at least be very contrite and regretful about it. This will save
you the trouble of getting flamed...
It should also be noted that some people are subjected to rinky-dink mail
systems that hide the return address of the sender. For this reason, it's a
good idea to include your address in your .signature, otherwise these people
will be unable to send personal mail to you.

Q: How 'bout those acronyms people sometimes use?
A: Here are some of the more common ones, listed alphabetically:
    AVAM= All Virgos Are Mad, the 1994 4AD festival in LA
    BTfaBG= Black Tape For a Blue Girl
    CT  = Cocteau Twins
    DCD = Dead Can Dance
    EoST= The Ecstasy of Saint Theresa
    FSA = Flying Saucer Attack
    FSOL= Future Sound Of London
    HNIA= His Name Is Alive
    J&MC= The Jesus and Mary Chain
    MBV = My Bloody Valentine
    MM  = Melody Maker, a British weekly music paper
    M7X = The Moon Seven Times
    NME = New Musical Express, another British paper
    PiL = Public Image, Ltd.
    PJH = P J Harvey (or maybe Pearl Jam Hurls)
    RHP = Red House Painters
    SY  = Sonic Youth
    TMC = This Mortal Coil
    TWP = The Wolfgang Press (or maybe The Wedding Present)
    VG  = Velocity Girl
    13YI= 13-Year Itch, a 4AD party held in summer 1993
There are also the usual net-talk abbreviations like IMHO or "Ob-"; if you're
confused about those see any netiquette guide or the New Hacker's Dictionary
(edited by Eric Raymond, published by MIT Press, very informative and

Q: I was forwarded a true story about a $250 Neiman-Marcus cookie recipe...
A: Don't even think about posting it to the list or you'll end up more
charred than the cookies. You might want to post it to alt.folklore.urban,
though, they love cookie recipes there.


Q: Does anybody have lyrics for Cocteau Twins songs?
A: Only Elizabeth Fraser, and she's not telling. All we know for sure are
some couplets that appear on the LPs of "Garlands" and "Head Over Heels":
    - Things from the forest die here / But I don't /
            Dead forest things are offered here / But I'm not
    - Grail overfloweth / Forget-me-not wreaths /
            Chaplets see me drugged / I could die in the rosary

    - When Mama was moth / I took bulb form
    - Glass candle grenades are popping / Still we'll not keel over
    - Tinderbox of a heart / Left a shell is all
    - Fig up my love paramour / Ooze out and away onehow
(Note that the last line became a song title on "The Moon and the Melodies".)

Q: Who is this Harold Budd guy who appeared on "The Moon and the Melodies"?
A: Harold Budd is a composer and pianist (and colleague of Brian Eno) who
works mainly in the genre of "ambient music": sparse, meditative soundscapes
that avoid the easy sentimentalism of "new age". If you enjoyed the quieter
piano-based moments of "The Moon...", particularly "Memory Gongs", try Budd's
album "Lovely Thunder", which includes an alternate version of that song,
entitled "Flowered Knife Shadows". Also recommended are his earlier albums
"The Pearl" and "The Plateaux of Mirror", both collaborations with Brian Eno.
His 1989 album "The White Arcades" was recorded in the Cocteau Twins' studio,
September Sound; unfortunately, its sound becomes too treacly for my ears.
Your mileage may vary.

Q: Why did the Cocteau Twins leave 4AD? What label are they on now?
A: They left for Fontana in 1991. They said they were tired of being
pigeonholed as "a 4AD band". They're now on Fontana (still on Capitol in the

Q: Where did the name "Cocteau Twins" come from?
A: That fun-loving Robin Guthrie has said misleading things about it in some
interviews, but the actual truth is that it was the name of an early Simple
Minds song. No one having been able to find a song of this name on any Simple
Minds record, Brant Nelson finally asked Robin himself and was told that it's
on the first SM album but under a different title.

Q: Who originally wrote/performed the song "Blue Flower", which both Mazzy
Star and Pale Saints have covered?
A: It was originally done in the '70s by the band Slapp Happy, written by
Peter Blegvad and Anthony Moore. Julian Lawton writes: "Peter Blegvad is
currently a cartoonist on the Independent On Sunday (Leviathan) - he also did
solo stuff with Andy Partridge of XTC. Moore also worked as part of Faust's
floating line up (or was it Amon Duul) and I think both were in Henry Cow, as
well as Slaphappy. The one time I saw a Slaphappy LP it was very expensively
priced in a collectors shop!!!"

Q: My copy of HNIA's "Home Is In Your Head" ends really abruptly, as though
the tape ran out or something. Is this intentional?
A: Yes. The master tape ran out while they were recording and they liked the
way it sounded.

Q: What is this "Volume" thing?
A: Volume is a periodical thingy -- a CD with a very large booket, or a
magazine with a free CD, depending on how you look at it. It includes
articles about, and songs by, several different bands. The songs are usually
unavailable elsewhere. Issue 5 ("Volume 5", natch) had much notoriety on this
list due to the Cocteau Twins' version of "Frosty the Snowman" and a nice
interview with them.
Volume is published in England, but it can be found in finer US record
stores, and is available from mail-order houses like Vinyl Ink or Parasol

Q: Didn't some of the people in The Moon Seven Times use to be in the band
A: Yes, Lynn Canfield (singer) and Henry Frayne (guitarist) both were in
Area. Moreover, Henry is a 4AD-L subscriber...

Q: What's the difference between the Lilys and the Lillies?
A: The Lilys are an American band whose album "In the Presence of Nothing"
(Slumberland/SpinArt, 1992) sounds almost more like My Bloody Valentine than
MBV themselves do. (They have since changed members and sound quite different
The Lillies were a one-shot band consisting of members of Lush, Moose and the
Cocteau Twins, who recorded one song (an homage to their favorite football
team) for a flexi in an English music magazine. For die-hard collectors only.

Q: What is the name of the extra track on the Lilys' CD "In the Presence of
A: It's actually the second to last track, not the last one, and it's called
"Threw a Day". The last track is "Claire Hates Me", as advertised.

Q: What is the name of the "hidden" fifth track on the vinyl version of
"Half-Life" by Pale Saints?
A: It's called "The Colour of the Sky". Incidentally, the reason for the
unnanounced extra tracks on British singles is that the chart rules in the UK
specify that a "single" can only contain four songs. If a band wants to have
a fifth song, without having the single considered a more expensive
"mini-album", they just don't officially put it on.

Q: What Japanese-only 4AD releases are there?
A: Several compilations: the "1987" 12" compilation; Pale Saints "Mrs.
Dolphin"; the Belly EP compilation; Lush's "Superblast" EP (containing two
other already-released tracks); and Natures Mortes-Still Lives, the
compilation from 1982 (produced for Japan with 500 imported back to the UK.)

Q: What is on the Slowdive compilation "Blue Day"?
A: Most of the tracks from the singles ("Slowdive", "Morningrise", "Holding
Our Breath") that preceded their first album. The tracks are:
Avalyn 1
She Calls
Losing Today
Missing are the instrumental "Avalyn 2" (essential!) and "Golden Hair" (yes,
the James Joyce / Syd Barret song.) This disc was rereleased as a freebie
included in the UK limited edition of their "Souvlaki" album.

Q: What's that dance song that samples This Mortal Coil's "Song To the Siren"
(repeating the line "Did I dream you dreamed about me")?
A: "Temple Of Dreams", by Messiah. They claim they re-recorded, not sampled,
that bit...


Q: Whatever happened to that band...
A: Read on! (Most of this info was supplied by the omniscient Brant Nelson.)

Spirea X: Left 4AD and disappeared utterly.

Pale Saints: Singer/bassist Ian Masters left in late '93 to form Spoonfed
Hybrid, who have an album out on Guernica. The rest of the band have
recruited a bass player from the Heart Throbs and will have a new album out
later in '94.

Colourbox: No one's quite sure. Nothing's been heard from them since the
World Cup Theme and of course the "M.A.R.R.S" collaboration with A R Kane.

A R Kane: Moved to Rough Trade, but haven't really released anything new in
several years (besides the "Americana" compilation on Luaka Bop.) Rudy is
still doing remixes for other bands.

Frasier Chorus: Moved to Virgin, then faded away after a few albums.

Dif Juz: The members are scattered among the UK and USA. Richard
Thomas had a stint with J&MC then Moose, and now Butterfly Child.
Their non 4AD output was limited to a mini-album "Who Says So"
and a chaotic tape of demos "Time Clock Turn Back" from the Pleasantly
Surprised series. An album of unreleased stuff was planned by
Independent Project Records, but it never came to pass.

Modern English: Left 4AD, recorded Stop Start, from which the minor
hit "Ink and Paper" comes, then resurfaced a few years later with
the TVT album "Pillow Lips" featuring a new version of their biggest
hit "I Melt With You". They toured and then dove back into obscurity.

Bauhaus: Left 4AD for Beggars Banquet. Most members have done solo
stuff, plus formed other bands.

Ash / Campling: Leave for Beggars Banquet as Tones On Tail.

J / Halkett: Part of the Bauhaus splinters, David J follows
Daniel Ash into Love And Rockets after this, as well as releasing solo

The Happy Family: After one album and single, Nick Currie went on
to form Momus.

Cocteau Twins: Left 4AD for Fontana and Capitol.

Swallow: Left 4AD for Rough Trade. A new cd single is out as of August 94.

Unrest: Called it quits after "Perfect Teeth" and reformed (minus drummer
Phil) as Air Miami.

Pixies: Called it quits. Black Francis now solo, Kim Deal in The Breeders.

Rema Rema: Various members went on to form Mass, then The Wolfgang Press.

Mass: Various members became The Wolfgang Press with Mark Cox from In Camera.

In Camera: Keyboardist Mark Cox joins The Wolfgang Press. A retrospective
containing all their stuff was co-released by 4AD and TeenBeat.
[note in the last two, I may be thinking of Andrew Gray instead of Mark Cox]

Richenel: Had at least an album on some other label.

Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares: About the individual women from the
4AD recordings, who knows; but the current choir now officially tours
under the same name and have released three or four further albums.

The Birthday Party: Nick Cave goes solo. Other member(s?) join
other groups.

(Clan Of) Xymox: Left 4AD for Wing. "Twist of Shadows" is released,
then "Phoenix" and Ronny Moorings is left by himself for the two
recent travesties.

Lydia Lunch: Several albums on another label.

Matt Johnson: Forms The The who have a bunch of albums.

Gilbert / Lewis: Wire plus various other projects.

Colin Newman: Wire, Wir, three solo albums. Continues to remain active.

Pieter Nooten: Reportedly working with singer Toni Halliday (ex-Curve) on a
new band called Bud -- nothing released yet as of this writing.

Bettie Serveert: Released another album on some other label.

This Mortal Coil: The project was dissolved after the release of "Blood".

Ultra Vivid Scene: Was booted off 4AD for spending too much money on
session musicians and after the sales of "Rev" and the supporting tour
weren't outstanding. Note: this is a fairly well established rumor
that may not be the entire truth.

Underground Lovers: Had a new single recently in Australia and
presumably have a new album coming out.

Xmal Deutschland: Had two non-4AD albums then disappeared. One member
tuened up in The Rossburger Report, a group Ivo was going to sign,
then backed out on.

My Captains: An unconfirmed rumor has one member selling off a box
of mint copies of their single in a recent Melody Maker ad.

This leaves only the following groups. Anything about them
has been lost in obscurity.
Dance Chapter
The Fast Set
The Past Seven Days
Psychotic Tanks
Red Atkins
Sort Sol
Spasmodic Caress


Q: What is "Lonely Is an Eyesore"?
A: A 4AD compilation from 1987, featuring the usual suspects (Cocteau Twins,
Dead Can Dance, This Mortal Coil, Throwing Muses, Dif Juz and more.) In
addition to the usual LP, CD, cassette and videocassette versions, there is a
limited-edition LP with a sleeve of mind-blowing complexity and beauty
(according to those who've seen it.) There is even an extremly limited wooden
box version. Only 100 were made, and if you ever find one, expect to pay at
least $800 for it. Brant Nelson says "there's one near where I live and the
owner wants over $2000!"
Album track listing:
1. Colourbox - "Hot Doggie"
2. This Mortal Coil - "Acid, Bitter and Sad"
3. Dead Can Dance - "Frontier"
4. Throwing Muses - "Fish"
5. Wolfgang Press - "Cut The Tree"
6. Cocteau Twins - "Crushed"
7. Dif Juz - "No Motion"
8. Clan of Xymox - "Muscoviet Mosquito"
9. Dead Can Dance - "The Protagonist"
The video includes the same tracks, in the order: 3, 6, 2, 4, 8, 5, 1, 7, 9.

Q: What is "Liliput"?
A: An ultra-fancy limited-edition 4AD compilation released in 1992  as a
promotional release only to mark 4AD joining with Warner Bros. It was sent to
radio stations, stores and the press and was never  available for purchase.
It contains two CDs; one of older material, one of new material:
    Liliput 1
Bauhaus - Dark Entries
The The - Controversial Subject
The Birthday Party - Nick The Stripper
Modern English - I Melt With You
This Mortal Coil - Song To The Siren
Xmal Deutschland - Incubus Succubus II
Cocteau Twins - The Spangle Maker
Xymox - Stranger
Colourbox - Baby, I Love You So
Throwing Muses - Hate My Way
Dif Juz - No Motion
M/A/R/R/S - Pump Up The Volume
Ultra Vivid Scene - Mercy Seat
Dead Can Dance - The Host Of Seraphim
Pixies - Monkey Gone To Heaven
Lush - De-luxe
    Lilliput 2
Pale Saints - Throwing Back The Apple
Pale Saints - Featherframe
The Wolfgang Press - A Girl Like You
The Wolfgang Press - Birmingham
Michael Brook - Breakdown
Michael Brook - Urbana
Spirea X - Chlorine Dream
Spirea X - Signed D.C
Heidi Berry - Gloria
His Name Is Alive - Are We Still Married?
Swallow - Tastes Like Honey
Swallow - Follow Me Down
Tintwistle Brass Band - A Thousand Stars Burst Open (Top secret track!
    a brass arrangement of the Pale Saints tune, previously found on the
    free single given away with the vinyl of In Ribbons.)

Copies have been sighted in used record stores for up to $100. Good luck
finding one.

Q: What is "And dog bones too..."?
A: The first 4AD "retail sampler". It's a promotional release only sent
to stores and radio stations. Copies were also given out at the CMJ shows
last year.
Track listing:
The Wolfgang Press             sucker m.f. (remix)
    remixed by Martyn Young (M.A.R.R.S./Colourbox)
Swallow                        lovesleep
Red House Painters             michael
Throwing Muses                 pearl
Lush                           nothing natural
Spirea X                       chlorine dream
Belly                          dusted
His Name is Alive              the dirt eaters
Michael Brook                  shona bridge
The Breeders                   do you love me now?
Pale Saints                    blue flower
The Birthday Party             sonny's burning
Modern English                 melt with you
Pixies                         u-mass
..plus a hidden bonus track:
This Mortal Coil               Song To The Siren

Q: What is "Mai Pen Rai"?
A: A second retail 4AD sampler with sleeve printed by Bruce Licher (of Savage
Republic) from Independent Project Records in Sedona, AZ. (Trivia: what 4AD
song mentions this town?) In typical Licher fashion, eight different color
combinations were printed. The CD holder is entirely cardboard, with a
fold-out insert containing the CD. 4AD plans on periodically releasing these
retail samplers which will  probably include a hidden track on each one.
::Track Listing::
Belly - Feed The Tree
Ultra Vivid Scene - Blood And Thunder
Frank Black - Los Angeles
Heidi Berry - The Moon And The Sun
Red House Painters - Rollercoaster
Dead Can Dance - The Carnival Is Over
His Name Is Alive - In Every Ford
Unrest - Teenage Suicide
Underground Lovers - Promenade
This Mortal Coil - You And Your Sister
Matt Johnson - Another Boy Drowning
Dance Chapter - Anonymity (hidden track)

Q: What is on the special "13-Year Itch" CD compilation?
A: There were a CD, a video and a poster. The CD first:
  Lush                    - Desire Lines (demo)
  Kristin Hersh           - Your Ghost (demo)
  Red House Painters      - Mistress (remix)
  Underground Lovers      - Your Eyes (remix)
  The Wolfgang Press      - Peace On Fire
  Unrest                  - Where Are All Those Puerto Rican Boys?
  The Breeders            - Invisible Man (demo)
  Bettie Serveert         - Totally Freaked Out
  Brendan Perry           - Happy Time
  Heidi Berry             - Firefly
  Pale Saints             - One Blue Hill (demo)
  His Name Is Alive       - The Time Falling Bodies Take To Light
  Ultra Vivid Scene       - This Is The Way (part 2)
The video:
   1. the breeders - cannonball
   2. unrest - isabel
   3. pixies - dig for fire/allison
   4. frank black - los angeles
   5. bettie serveert - tom boy
   6. the wolfgang press - kansas
   7. his name is alive - are we still married?
   8. his name is alive - lip
   9. his name is alive - can't go wrong without you
  10. this mortal coil - late night
  11. micheal brook - breakdown
  12. heidi berry - the moon and the sun
  13. red house painters - 24
  14. throwing muses - counting backwards
  15. pale saints - blue flower
  16. swallow - ocean and blue skies
  17. lush - superblast
  18. ultra vivid scene - blood and thunder
The poster: was given out free to everyone who bought the third 4AD poster
set (FAD23) at the festival.

Q: What is "The Pink Opaque"? How can I get a copy?
A: It's a Cocteau Twins compilation from 1985, their first US release and
their first CD release. It has a variety of stuff from "Garlands" through
"Treasure". The more obscure things on it are:
    - A version of "Wax and Wane" with a much heavier drum sound
    - "Millimillenary" (from a limited edition compilation tape called
          "Department Of Enjoyment", released by NME)
As far as we know it is out of print. Copies still show up in used bins,

Q: What is "Thurtene"?
A: Thurtene is a 4AD tribute compilation CD put together by Brant Nelson
(list member and Dewdrops (4AD fanzine) editor.) It consists of 13 bands
covering 13 songs originally released on 4AD. It may be ordered from Brant at
Dewdrops, 1817 Corinth Ave. #10, Los Angeles, CA 90025-5567. The US price is
$11.50 which includes postage. Make checks payable to Brant Nelson.
For more info, see the FAQ file on Dewdrops.
::Track Listing::
The Moon Seven Times - Michelle (Xymox)
Hover - When I Was A Painter (The Breeders)
immer essen - Not In Love (Ultra Vivid Scene)
Livia - Mizake The Mizan (Cocteau Twins)
Red Zoo - 5/10 (Colin Newman)
Independent Mechanical Industry - Swing Like A Baby (The Wolfgang Press)
GLE - Hate My Way (Throwing Muses)
Clarity - Saltarello (Dead Can Dance)
Orange - Gigantic (Pixies)
The Gosh Guys - Where Is My Mind (Pixies)
Floral Majority - Blue Flower (Pale Saints)
Firecracker - There's Something Between Us... (His Name Is Alive)
Tel Basta - I Melt With You (Modern English)

Q: What is the "4AD 1987" compilation?
A: This is a Japanese-only CD compiling 12"s released by 4AD in 1987, viz:
  1) The Wolfgang Press "Big Sex"
  2) A.R. Kane "Lolita"
  3) Throwing Muses "Chains Changed"
  4) Frazier Chorus "Sloppy Heart"
  5) M/A/R/R/S "Pump Up the Volume"


Q: What are all the bands who have released music on the 4AD or Guernica
A: The all-knowing Brant Nelson provides this list (accurate as of June
AR Kane
Daniel Ash / Glen Campling
Heidi Berry
The Birthday Party
Frank Black
Michael Brook
Budd / Fraser / Guthrie / Raymonde
(Clan Of) Xymox
Cocteau Twins
Dance Chapter
Dead Can Dance
Dif Juz
The Fast Set
Frazier Chorus
Rene Halkett / David J
The Happy Family
Kristen Hersh
His Name Is Alive
Rowland Howard / Lydia Lunch
In Camera
Matt Johnson
G. Lewis / B.C. Gilbert
Lydia Lunch
Modern English
My Captains
Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares
Colin Newman
Pieter Nooten / Michael Brook
Pale Saints
The Past Seven Days
Psychotic Tanks
Red Atkins
Red House Painters
Rema Rema
Bettie Serveert
Sort Sol
Spasmodic Caress
Spirea X
The The
This Mortal Coil
Throwing Muses
Ultra Vivid Scene
Underground Lovers
The Wolfgang Press
Xmal Deutschland

Q: Is there a complete 4AD discography?
A: There was one on the "Lonely Is an Eyesore" compilation, accurate as of
mid-1987. Various more up to date ones have been printed in Melody Maker,
Spiral Scratch, and Dewdrops. For the most up to date information, check
page 2 or 3 of Dewdrops or consult...

Q: What is "Eyesore"?
A: Eyesore is an online database of 4AD discographic information (right on
down to track listings and personnel) maintained by list member Lars Magne
Ingebrigtsen . You can send queries to it by e-mail, and
the source code is also available for Unix systems. Eyesore is also available
on the WorldWideWeb, via the Mosaic client program: the URL is:


Q: Where did the name "4AD" come from?
A: As far as we know, it's a contraction of "Forward": Forward -> 4wArD ->
4AD. Ivo originally named the label "Axis" but someone else already held the
trademark so he had to change it in a hurry.

Q: Who is Ivo?
A: Ivo Watts-Russel is the man behind 4AD: the creator of the label, the
president, the guy who decides what bands to sign based on how cool he thinks
they are. He has also produced a few records (such as the Cocteau Twins'
"Garlands") and is the driving force of This Mortal Coil (he selects the
songs, writes some of them, selects the musicians and singers, plays some
keyboards, and produces.)

Q: How does Ivo pronounce his name?
A: "Ee-vo", not "Eye-vo". Liz Fraser sings it (correctly) in the Cocteau
Twins song of the same name.

Q: What are 23 Envelope and v23?
A: 23 Envelope was the team of Vaughan Oliver (graphic design and typography)
and Nigel Grierson (photography), who designed the artwork for almost all 4AD
releases until 1987. Vaughan Oliver now continues on his own as v23,
collaborating with Chris Bigg, Simon Larbalestier and others.

Q: Have any of their designs been released separately?
A: Several--
WAD 23: A set of posters released in 1986.
XAD 23: Another set of posters, from 1990.
PAD 23: A set of postcards (released in 1986, re-released in 1992.)
PAD 905: A set of eight Pixies postcards of the photos from Doolittle.
XAD 001: A 1990 calendar.
XAD2020: A 1993 calendar. (This one breaks all the cataloging rules; see
A v23 Exhibition/Exposition book ???INFO???
There are many other posters. 4AD prints them for nearly every release.
We have no guidelines or hints on where to find them.

::  WAD 23 Poster Set ::
::    15 posters      ::
Clan Of Xymox - Clan Of Xymox
Cocteau Twins - Tiny Dynamine / Echoes In A Shallow Bay
Cocteau Twins - Aikea Guinea
Cocteau Twins - Pearly-Dewdrops' Drops
Cocteau Twins - Sunburst And Snowblind
Cocteau Twins - Treasure
Cocteau Twins - Victorialand
Colourbox - Colourbox
Modern English - Someone's Calling
Modern English - Ricochet Days
Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares - Volume 1
Richenel - l'Esclave Endormi
This Mortal Coil - Sixteen Days - Gathering Dust
This Mortal Coil - It'll End In Tears
Xmal Deutschland - Incubus Succubus II

::PAD 23 Postcard Set::
::  12 postcards     ::
Cocteau Twins - Peppermint Pig
Cocteau Twins - Head Over Heels
Cocteau Twins - Head Over Heels / Sunburst And Snowblind
Cocteau Twins - Treasure
Cocteau Twins - The Pink Opaque
Cocteau Twins - Victorialand
Colourbox - Colourbox
Colourbox - Baby I Love You So
Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares - Volume 1
Modern English - Ricochet Days
This Mortal Coil - I'll End In Tears
Richenel - l'Esclave Endormi

:: XAD 23 Poster Set  ::
::15 'A2' size posters::
The Breeders - Pod
Dead Can Dance - Aion
His Name Is Alive - Livonia
Lush - Sweetness And Light
Lush - Mad Love
Lush - Scar
Pale Saints - The Comforts Of Madness
Pixies - Gigantic
Pixies - Here Comes Your Man
Pixies - Velouria
Pixies - Bossanova
Pixies - Dig For Fire
Throwing Muses - House Tornado (UK)
Ultra Vivid Scene - Joy 1967-1990
Ultra Vivid Scene - Ultra Vivid Scene

::   FAD 23 Poster Set   ::
:: 13 posters (A2 size?) ::
Released:  1993, premiered at the 13 Year Itch (q.v.)
Heidi Berry - Chris Bigg artwork, not sure what album it's from
TMC - Blood
Swallow - Blow
HNIA - Home Is In Your Head
Heidi Berry - Love
Belly - Star, inside artwork from one the "Gepetto" singles
Frank Black - s/t
Michael Brook - Cobalt Blue
RHP - Down Colourful Hill
Lush - Black Spring EP
The Breeders - Safari
Pixies - Trompe Le Monde
Also includes the 13-Year-Itch poster listing all the bands/dates

Q: Are they still in print? Where can I obtain them?
A: We used to have a source but I'm informed that they've run out. Good luck!

Q: What is the Guernica label?
A: Guernica is a 4AD-offshoot that releases one-shots by bands not otherwise
signed to 4AD: e.g. Bettie Serveert, Underground Lovers. Unrest's "Imperial
FFRR" was released on Guernica but their later releases were on the 4AD
mothership. (Tidbit: All of the vinyl Guernica releases so far include a 7"
with additional tracks along with the LP.)

Q: What is the hidden meaning of 4AD's catalog numbers?
A: The alphabetic part indicates the medium:
 AXIS = first four 7" singles
   AD = 7" single
  CAD = LP
  DAD = Double LP
  BAD = EP (up to four listed songs, more may be hidden or unlisted)
  HAD = (Used only once, for the UK reissue of "Burning Blue Soul", possibly
         a sarcastic reference to the Kollektor Skum who had to buy it due to
         the new artwork on the reissue.)
  JAD = (only used twice, Birthday Party / Lydia Lunch live mini album
         and Lush's Scar EP)
  MAD = Mini-album (more than four songs)
  PAD = Postcard Set
  TAD = Temporary release: only one pressing*
  VAD = Video cassette
  WAD = Poster Set
  XAD = Poster Set or Calendar
  The letters CD appended indicate a compact disc,
  and CS indicates a cassette. An appended D indicates a double
  or special limited release.
*There have been only four "TAD" releases: Throwing Muses' "The Curse",
Swallow's "Blowback", Michael Brook's "Live_at_the_Aquarium", and Lisa
Germano's "Inconsiderate Bitch".
The numbers indicate the year and release sequence. In a three-digit number
(used through 1989), the first digit is the last digit of the year; in a
four-digit number (used since 1990), the first two digits are the number of
years since 1990. The last two digits are always the ordinal number of that
release in that year (1 means the first 4AD release of that year, 12 means
the twelfth.)
There are a few exceptions. The "13 Year Itch" CD is numbered "(shuffle)".
Other funny numbers belong to non-musical releases; see above.
Promo releases are numbered oddly -- the alphabetic part is usually an
abbreviation of the band's name, and the numbers are sequential across promos
by that band. There may be a "CD" suffix indicating a CD release, but not all
CD promos have it. Thus,TMC 1 CD Is the first This Mortal Coil promo CD, Pix
3 is the third Pixies promo.
There is also the grey area of freebies.HNAI 1 was given out at record stores
(7"), kh1 (CD) given out with initial copies of Red Heaven(CD),KH2 was given
away by postal application, etc etc.


Q: What is 4AD's mailing address?
A: US Office : PO Box 461599, Los Angeles, CA 90046-9599
   UK Office : 15 Alma Road, London, SW18 1AA

Q: Where can I find obscure thislisty music by mail-order?
A: Two good US mail-order places are Parasol and Vinyl Ink.
      Parasol:   202 S. First, Champaign IL 61820 USA (217)355-2555
      Vinyl Ink: 955 Bonifant St. Silver Spring, MD 20910 USA (301)588-4695

Q: How about by E-mail-order?
A: Try EAR-Rational music, an online music service specializing in
thislisty/dance/noise product. They're not the quickest (they don't always
have everything in stock and may have to re-order from a distributor) but the
selection is excellent. For a catalog, send mail to
    [email protected]
with subject "catalog-ascii". The catalog will include directions on how to
  If you're looking for used stuff (or have stuff to sell), try the Used
Music List. Write to  with subject "HELP".

Q: Is there a 4AD fanzine?
A: Yes! It's called Dewdrops, and is co-edited by list member Brant Nelson
. (Or 1817 Corinth Ave. #10, Los Angeles, CA
Dewdrops has its own FAQ, which is available separately from 4AD-L archives
via FTP (see above for FTP info.)

Q: How about other 'zines or magazines that cover thislisty music?
A: Here are a few addresses...

Ray Gun
807 Navy St., Santa Monica CA 90405
$25 a year (10 issues)
A professional-quality magazine with really odd, experimental (some say
unreadable) layout. Covers a wide variety of "alternative" music. The recent
"UK" issue was amazing, with coverage of just about every English thislisty
band you can think of.

Warped Reality
c/o Andrea Feldman
PO Box 2515, Providence, RI 02906
E-mail: Susan Curran at [email protected].
Issues are $2.50 ppd. in the US, payable to Andrea Feldman.
"We're a new magazine of uncommon art and music. The first issue had
with: Belly, His Name is Alive, God is My Co-Pilot and children's book
illustrator Maira Kalman.
  "The second issue will be coming out in another week or so, and will have
interviews with: Kristin Hersh, Chris Bigg of v23, The Breeders, Miranda Sex
Garden, Big Hat, Opium Den, and a review of the 13 year itch."

Q: How about other related Internet mailing lists?
  The Indie-List
  [Write a nice letter to Sean Murphy at ]
  Devoted to music on independent labels, mostly small US bands that release
  a lot of stuff on 7"s. Unrest, Sebadoh, Eggs, Tsunami, The Dambuilders...
  Twice-weekly digest format means lots of info, little chit-chat or
  flamage. Can at first produce feelings of dizziness upon reading page after
  page about bands you've never heard of.

  The UK-Indie-List
  [[email protected]]
  Covers the UK independent scene, from thislisty stuff through the Wonder
  Stuff, Morrisey, Pop Will Eat Itself ... In practice this seems too broad
  for good conversation, and 4AD-L'ers who've tried this list haven't been
  too impressed.

  [[email protected]; body should be "sub subbacultcha " + your name]
  Covers the whole Pixies / Throwing Muses / Belly / Breeders thang.

  The Eno-List
  [[email protected]]
  Brian Eno, the man, the music, the production work, the legend.
  Comes out in a daily digest; usualy around 10 messages a day.

  The David Sylvian List
  [[email protected]; body should be "sub sylvian " + your name]
  As you can guess, this list is for discussing the music of David
  Sylvian, Japan, and the many collaborations those members have been
  involved in.  There are discographies and lyrics available as well.

  The Durutti Column List
  [[email protected]]

  The Ambient List
  [[email protected]; put "subscribe" in the body.]

Q: What about thislisty Web (Mosaic) pages?
A: Here's a partial, sketchy list:
    http://isvpc146.isv.uit.no/eyesore.html       (The Eyesore database)
    http://garnet.berkeley.edu:8080/cocteau.html  (Cocteau Twins)
    http://sparrow.bio.indiana.edu/brian/seefeel  (Seefeel)
    http://www.acns.nwu.edu/eno-l                 (Brian Eno)


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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
   with BSMTP id 2009; Thu, 03 Nov 94 19:59:14 EST
 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2001; Thu, 3 Nov 1994 19:59:11 -0500
Date:         Thu, 3 Nov 1994 19:59:14 -0500
Reply-To: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
Sender: 4ad recording artists list <4A[email protected]>
Comments:     Resent-From: "Gerald Tang" 
Comments:     Originally-From: "Gerald Tang" 
From: Gerald Tang 
Subject:      Re: Lush
X-To:         [email protected]
To: Multiple recipients of list 4AD-L <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To:  Ned Anderson  "Re: Lush" (Nov  3,  3:29am)
btatus: O

        Ned, I'm very sorry to hear about your grandfather. I believe that
When I Die is one of the most beautiful and touching songs I have ever heard.
Apparently Miki used to cry everytime she heard it. She wanted to release
that song as a single but the label released Hypocrite instead because it was
more commercial.
        "When Split was completed, the band fought with their record label to
release the beautifully slow and weepy "When I Die" as a single even though
the song has little if any commercial appeal. The label wound up releasing
the far more upbeat and poppy "Hypocrite" instead. "Everybody tells us that
radio people don't know how to market something like that, but I don't see
why that's so bloody difficult," gripes Berenyi. "I thought it would be
really nice to release `When I Die' as a single because it's so different
from all the predictable records that get released, and it would be really
unusual, but that's not the way record company people think."
                                                   Raygun, August 1994
Thank you for the offer of a free subscription to "Infrequently Lush". I
would love one.

On Nov 3,  3:29am, Ned Anderson wrote:
> Subject: Re: Lush
> I loved Split. It seemed to be a very emotional album to me. My grandfather
> died shortly after I bought it, and although this sounds corny, I found
> solace in "When I Die". The circumstances of the two deaths were very
> similar. I can never thank Emma enough for writing that song, even though
> was a sad occasion that caused her to write it in the first place.
> If you are interested, I am the publisher of the Lush fanzine "Infrequently
> Lush". If you want a free subscription, just send me your snail mail
> :)
> Ned
>-- End of excerpt from Ned Anderson

VOICE/FAX -(416)225-7346
INTERNET - [email protected]
131 Beecroft Road, Apt.#901
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M2N 6G9

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 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2368; Thu, 3 Nov 1994 20:05:13 -0500
Date:         Fri, 4 Nov 1994 11:37:02 CST
Reply-To: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
Sender: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
From: Grant Schwarz 
Subject:      Music
X-To:         [email protected]
To: Multiple recipients of list 4AD-L <[email protected]>
btatus: O

The following message was recently posted to a.m.a. It may have some
relevence to recent discussions.

If you are going to limit your listening repertoire to only music that is
deemed "cool" by your peers you are never going to be able to develop a
discriminating ear. In every musical category there are the good bands,
the great artists and the mediocre. I spent 10 years as a working musician
on the road. I learned and played by ear....then one day i decided
to,learn more about music theory. I took 3 years of musical composition at
Dawson college in Montreal. I can tell you that this experience changed my
entire outlook on music. I WILL LISTEN TO ANY FORM OF MUSIC and judge the
technique and artistry on its own merits. Yes there are certain types of
music that we all enjoy in particular, but there are gems to be found in
ALL the forms and permutations throughout history....Classical, jazz, pop,
"alternative"..... whatever. The point is that there are 2 main
considerations when judging a musical piece. 1.) Technique (sadly lacking
in most of these alternative bands) 2.) Artistry.    A band that combines
both of these attributes in equal proportions is always worth listening
to. If I find true art in a musical piece the technique won't count as
much. If technique is missing altogether...I can't stand to listen to it.

"Alternative" music is a fad, and the bands that don't develop out of this
category to find their own direction will not be remembered. In short if
you are a musician, don't bother trying to write and play "alternative"
simply because it's the latest craze....develop your own style,
experiment, become expert on your instrument and most important DON'T ACT,
play from the heart...where the music begins.

-Brian Forrest

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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
   with BSMTP id 3046; Thu, 03 Nov 94 20:13:55 EST
 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3028; Thu, 3 Nov 1994 20:13:47 -0500
Date:         Thu, 3 Nov 1994 20:08:31 -0500
Reply-To: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
Sender: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
From: Richard Singer 
Subject:      Re: This Mortal Coil
X-To:         4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list 4AD-L <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To:  <9411030500.AA07094@mail-in.worldlink.com>
btatus: O

    Adrian Sevitz  wrote:

>Subject: This Mortal Coil
>TE> I am looking for recommendations for TMC's _Blood_. I have an opportunity t

>TE> purchase this cd and don't know who anyone is on it. I have _It'll End in T
ars_ and enjoy that. Where does _Blood_ fit in? I can pick this cd up for $7 ppd

>TE> Would anyone recommend getting this one?
>I have blood. Very Good, Totally Excellent and amazing. I initially bought
>it for the Tanya Donnely track (track 6, You and Your Sister, with Kim
>Deal) but the whole album is really good. Very spaced out however. Somewere
>around track 10 or 11 there is a baby doing vocals type stuff. My friends
>threatened to get out the car, told them to walk and turned up the vol.
>Track 17 (i think) is called D,D, & E (Daylight, dream and Echo) Although
>it is only 38 seconds long it is beautiful. The female vocales are on a
>diffirent planet.

It's hard to rate This Mortal Coil albums relative to each other,
since all of them are so different from one another yet all of them are
so good.  _Filigree & Shadow_ is probably my favorite, but _Blood_ ranks
up there with _It'll End In Tears_.

The popular Donnely/Deal track actually sounds pretty light
compared to the singing of Deirdre Rutkowski, who contributes the majority
of the "on a different planet" female vocals in the LP.  Caroline Crawley
also makes a good contribution, and there's even a very nice cameo from
Heidi Berry.

_Blood_ *is* probably the most spaced out of the three LPs, though there are
segments in _Filigree & Shadow_ that are just as foggy :-).  But the real
songs in this album (including several very imaginative covers
of '60s-'70s stuff) have a lot of substance, too -- moving,
thought-provoking, and more.

Anyway, yeah, I think it's well worth buying; it's near the top of my '90s
(so far) list.

-- Richard Singer

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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
   with BSMTP id 3827; Thu, 03 Nov 94 20:33:01 EST
 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3824; Thu, 3 Nov 1994 20:32:53 -0500
Date:         Thu, 3 Nov 1994 17:33:44 -0800
Reply-To: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
Sender: 4ad recording artists list <[email protected]>
From: Kelli-Jeanne 
Subject:      that 'official' list
X-To:         * This Mortal Listserv * <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list 4AD-L <[email protected]>
btatus: O

  ok....for the umpteenth time, i subbed to that address, and
  still..nada. not one li'l peep. :pout: does anyone get responses?
  is this thing actually "up and running" properly and the problem
  is on my end? please..someone..anyone..help. this isn't a life or
  death thing fo rme, but i get so darned annoyed with mail list
  problems. i don't have the address of the person in 'charge' of
  that list, or else i'd write him instead...

  * k-j * ...whose li'l black kitty cat refuses to get along
     with the german shepherd puppy that's the size of a small horse...

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From: mRay 
Subject:      Re: hnia 'lib girl'
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To: Multiple recipients of list 4AD-L <[email protected]>

> well i hope that helps...
> that word "_grade_" is the same word but im not sure if
> it is grade or grain...
> sounds like both...
> but most likely grade because it makes sense in
> the "noise lyrics" part...
> being a good student, library girl, pleasing the worker coming
> home w/ good grades then hiding...
> just my thoughts... write to me or post, im curious to think
> what you think the words are...
        sounds like 'grape' to me
._.-.                                                .-._.
mRay )                                              ( [email protected]